komanam / kaupeenam panchakacham brahmacharyam

[sadasivam.sridharan]

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Discussion on komanam is branching off to different direction.

 

[tbs]

Discussion on komanam is branching off to different direction.

hi
now komanam thread goes through menses and other related matters.....thats it....

 

[Nara]

The onset of menopause is important because the transgressions have no visible and embarrassing consequences.

The rules with respect to when teettu is over for menstruating women have nothing to do with logic. On the 4th day she is allowed in, on the 5th she is pure as snow. When the first day really starts is another matter. So much for dharmashahstra rules.

 

[Visalakshi Ramani]

dear visa,

there are folks like your brother in law, with some tangential interests in women's affairs. anything ranging from mild curiosity to absolute perversion. best to keep away from those folks.

it is amazing, that as a community, we take the gold medal in how we treated our women during their periods.

incidentally, if you see the movie angadi theru, there is a scene, where the brahmin middle class, dismisses her young maid on achieving puberty. incidentally, in almost all other tamil communities, this event is celebrated, even today with pomp (the movie star vijay came to toronto to celebrate his niece's attaining of age )

jeyamohan, the writer, who scripted this movie, was accused of anti brahminism..to which he replied - that the way the brahmins treated their own females was much crueller, than what this lady did to the maid.

incidentally my mother did the same thing. we had a malayali maid at home, live in, and the day she attained puberty, she was packed off to badagara. me being young, did not know the reason, till many many years later. something in our psyche, i guess.

dear Mr. kunjuppu,
That B.I.L was a victim of polio attack and never had any education - even though some of my own class mates had been affected worse than him. He would live in a world of fantasy. His mother was everything to him.
He would connect aavakkai pickles with body of madi maami ( means unclad lady) while preparing the pickles. I happened to live in the same house for ~ 4 years and I still remember the way he used to stare at me in whatever I might be doing doing. :scared:

 

[Visalakshi Ramani]

Dear VR ji,

I disagree with what you wrote cos generally Indian girls are well behaved with matters related to sex.. basically the lower socio economic status girls will be timid and shy but sometimes too innocent and end up being manipulated by others.

As Kunjuppu ji rightly said ..none of us girls experimented and manipulated our bodies after puberty as to land up pregnant.

dear Renu,

you have read my sentence wrong. I had meant 'bodies manipulated by hormones'

Innocent girls will end up becoming pregnant due to fear of the boss, or curiosity or the money offered to her - if she is poor.

I listened to a song from an unexpected quarters once. :sing:

It goes like this.

kaththarikkai koththamallik kaaree
kai nirayak kaasu tharen vaadi!

If people would tempt the vendors and sellers with a handful of coins, how about the poor, ignorant, innocent and obedient girl working and living in the same house???

In those days birth control was not so widely known nor practiced. I, like many other young girls of that time, thought that kissing caused pregnancy!!!
May be because that was the only thing shown on movies in those days -
that too not Indian movies.

 

[Visalakshi Ramani]

Dear VR ji,


BTW attaining menopause does not stop anyone from having sex..so even if the Thooram has stopped the Dvaram(doors) can be still wide open"!LOL

Dear Renu,
But at least the chances of pregnancy were remote!
Was it more convenient to have those women??? :noidea:

 

[Visalakshi Ramani]

Dear Kunjs,

I remember reading something like this in some Dalit Blogspot sometime back where they were commenting on the practices of treating Brahmin females badly during menses by Brahmins.

Were the men angry and upset that 5 out of 28 precious days (nights) were simply being wasted?? :noidea:

 

[Visalakshi Ramani]

Now I understand why some females makes such a big deal of having a head bath after menses..I used to think what is the big deal of any bathe since we all bath 2x a day and some of us(like me) wash our hair daily too..so the standard of hygiene is high to start with..so why make a big deal of a head bath after menses?

So I get it now..cos women of the past were confined without bath for 3 days and so I guess the head bath after those 3 days was a much needed event.

BTW a normal menstrual cycle can range from 3-7 days...so what about those who had a longer cycle??

Were they confined for 7 days?

Grin and bear the extended periods!!! :becky:

I met a young lady in mys sister's house. She was not a Brahmin and yet her grandmother had stricter rules for those unfortunate and unavoidable periods. out:

The girl had to stay in a room allotted for this special purpose and on the fourth day morning, she and all the clothes used by her would be immersed in the puzha at their backyard and left for further cleansing. :bolt:

The girl described how her grand mother would push down her head in to the chill water.
A much needed event indeed!

 

[Visalakshi Ramani]

Discussion on komanam is branching off to different direction.

Can't be helped dear friend! :nono:

Ladies were originally the people who wore colorful, soft komaNs made from old saris...

during those glorious days - until they learned to use the cloth along with their jatti :decision:

and then the fancy pads being sold now and given so much publicity on the media. :director:

 

[Visalakshi Ramani]

Here is small story to make you think about something - before I quit this thread!

It is said the Lakshmi Devi was traveling all by herself at night time and was having her periods too.

(Don't' ask me where, why and when she was all by herself at night.

Or whether Goddesses have periods too ??? Wait for the moral of the story.)

She came to the house of a Brahmin couple and wished to spend the night there.

But a Brahmin allowing a lady inside the house, while she was in her monthly cycles, was surely a sin - even if not a treason!!! :nono:

She was sent back into the cold night mercilessly. :hand:

Next she went to merchant's house.

They were better disposed and took the lady in for the night.

Lakshmi Devi liked their hospitality so much that she decided to stay there for ever.

Does this explain why Brahmins are / were /will be living a hand-to-mouth existence and the merchants were/ are /will be rolling in money??? opcorn:

 

[wrongan]

But they were allowed to take baths and their clothes can not be washed with the clothes of others and they had separate pails for clothes worn during menses.-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------Dear Renu ,You have rightly said.The reason behind separating mensural ladies is purely on hygeine aspect .With their limited knowledge compared today's They knew that discarded blood will spread bacterial infection. They didn't have disinfectant or napkins on those days.so they wanted to restrict their movement so spreading of infection would be minimal.Further on those days they had large houses so these were possible.Today we have better options so we speak in this tone.I request the forum members not to blame our ancesters because you don't like their practices and you were not there to correct them then not even born.

 

[renuka]

But they were allowed to take baths and their clothes can not be washed with the clothes of others and they had separate pails for clothes worn during menses.-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------Dear Renu ,You have rightly said.The reason behind separating mensural ladies is purely on hygeine aspect .With their limited knowledge compared today's They knew that discarded blood will spread bacterial infection. They didn't have disinfectant or napkins on those days.so they wanted to restrict their movement so spreading of infection would be minimal.Further on those days they had large houses so these were possible.Today we have better options so we speak in this tone.I request the forum members not to blame our ancesters because you don't like their practices and you were not there to correct them then not even born.

Dear Sir,

Agreed with what you wrote but I find the part where women are not allowed to take bath or brush their teeth even very very unhygienic cos during such times one needs to take bath and keep extremely clean.


I dont see any rationale of not allowing bath unless in ancient days bath was taken at a common pond or a stagnant tank so no one wanted any contamination of the tank..that is the only logical explanation I can think of...but when houses had their own bathrooms and toilet and women did not have to go to tanks and ponds to bathe...they should have got away with the practice of not allowing bath during menses.


This reminds me of a story where a Brahmin had a pet cat who used to trouble him when he was doing some specific pooja.

So he used to keep the cat under a basket till the Pooja was over and others noticed this and thought that "one needs to find a cat and keep it trapped under a basket for the Pooja to be effective" and then on when anyone did the Pooja they would go find a cat and keep it trapped under the basket till the Pooja was over.

So blind following without looking into the reasons behind each practice makes life harder for us.

When the rules of no bath was made could be it was the times where people took bath at temple ponds or tanks..so no contamination was allowed on hygienic grounds...but when there was bathrooms and water supply at home...do people still needed to follow this not allowing bath??

 

[Visalakshi Ramani]

WOW!!! :clap2: dear Renu!

for shattering the age old practices :smash:

which have grown out of date :rip:

but which people cling on to with their

very lives for reasons they know not!!! :loco:

 

[Visalakshi Ramani]

So real :wave: now!!!

 

[renuka]

Were the men angry and upset that 5 out of 28 precious days (nights) were simply being wasted?? :noidea:

Dear VR ji,

I read some Dalit blogspots from time to time and share my views too...they are just like everyone else...no difference.

I fact I read one blogspot where it was sad to read how a Dalit woman felt...she said the Dalit woman is the receiving end of the Indian society cos no one respects the Dalit man and the Dalit man has to subjugate himself to everyone else and the Dalit wife becomes the punching bag of her husband cos he needs to exert superiority on someone when the whole world looks down upon him..so the Dalit women ends up even being physically assaulted by husband.


VR Ji..every human has a sex drive..so any caste man may or may not feel that those 5 out of 28 days is wasted.

 

[kunjuppu]

Dear VR ji,

I read some Dalit blogspots from time to time and share my views too...they are just like everyone else...no difference.

I fact I read one blogspot where it was sad to read how a Dalit woman felt...she said the Dalit woman is the receiving end of the Indian society cos no one respects the Dalit man and the Dalit man has to subjugate himself to everyone else and the Dalit wife becomes the punching bag of her husband cos he needs to exert superiority on someone when the whole world looks down upon him..so the Dalit women ends up even being physically assaulted by husband.


VR Ji..every human has a sex drive..so any caste man may or may not feel that those 5 out of 28 days is wasted.

very true. the dalit women have the worst of the worlds that is india. if there is a bottom rung, it is them. even among dalits, there are grades, and some dalits consider themselves 'superior' to other dalits.

very sad, this whole varna culture thanks to manu and his still existent followers - some even here in this forum. fortunately this is a shrinking number, but i dont know, if it is shrinking fast enough to save hinduism from wholesale conversions. happening in nadu in great numbers.

 

[renuka]

very true. the dalit women have the worst of the worlds that is india. if there is a bottom rung, it is them. even among dalits, there are grades, and some dalits consider themselves 'superior' to other dalits.

very sad, this whole varna culture thanks to manu and his still existent followers - some even here in this forum. fortunately this is a shrinking number, but i dont know, if it is shrinking fast enough to save hinduism from wholesale conversions. happening in nadu in great numbers.

Dear Kunjs,

Many are actually converts and to a certain extent I do not blame them but rather feel sad for them.

So each time we see a Dalit convert take is as failure of Hinduism to sustain its own rightful people that they had to seek "refuge" in an alien religion.

It is not that conversion gets rid of caste stigma cos other religions too maintain their caste identity but at least they are welcomed in their new religion and no holy books of theirs describe them in 'despicable' terms.

So people were not looking for a new religion or new God..they just wanted some self respect.

 

[friend_truth18]

Dear Renuka, Friends and members,

Komanam is a piece of cloth from a dothi ? whether it should be tucked between buttocks crack (visible like bare back from distance) or it should be hanging both in front and back ?
Awaiting your replies on komanam and i would like to share my komanam experience after your messages.

 

[wrongan]

For conversion I have a story.A boy was aliways scolded or even beaten by his father for not studying his lessons.But his neibhour mama used to play with him softly and give him chocolates.So at some time he started calling his neibhour mama as his dad.

 

[friend_truth18]

Friends,

should i tear an old dhoti now ?... let me know the hanging in front side and backside ? should the backside be tight getting into the crack of ?

 

[friend_truth18]

Dear Friends,

Thanks for your knowledge shared.. komanam kattitunduruken, as per your guidelines of tearing dhoti , but width, length therila. if any open hearted, friendly persons are there, ready to share my online cam to you, Mr.Sangom, my friends, my yahoo id : [email protected], thankyou...
karthik

 

[biswa]

I really dont get this analogy. So a Dalit is being scolded/beaten or being called a Dalit or put on the bottom rung of the caste system for his own good?

At least in theory a father should know what is good for his boy (who is too young to have that foresight and wisdom). So in this analogy the upper castes know what is good for the Dalit, because he does not have the requisite wisdom?

 

[renuka]

For conversion I have a story.A boy was aliways scolded or even beaten by his father for not studying his lessons.But his neibhour mama used to play with him softly and give him chocolates.So at some time he started calling his neibhour mama as his dad.

Dear Wrongan ji,

Some how this analogy does not seem to go down well.

Why is a father beating the son who is not studying his lessons when that son is denied education and the right to even be treated as human in the 1st place.

A father has the right to be beat the son who does not study his lesson provided the father has given him access to education.

When the father who was supposed to be the 'Guru' did not teach his Shishya so he has no right to hit the son..and if he does so he is seen as an abuser.

So obviously when the Mama next door treats his better and gives him so chocolates and allows education for the boy...the boy will surely call the new Mama as Appa.

So frankly speaking the "spare the rod spoil the child" analogy only holds good if the parent had provided everything for the child...if he hasn't provided anything for the child...he is only an abuser.

We have to wake up from the mindset of Animal farm thinking that "All animals are equal but some are more equal than the others"..This is what the present day caste system is all about..no one really means it when they talk about equality.

I remember when it came to marriage time...since it was arranged marriage system..most people were wanting to know caste of my family.

I was also kind of pissed that my parents even actually answered such questions to the person who brought the proposal.

But thank God the person I married did not bother to know what caste I am and neither was I interested to know his caste as a criteria.

That is why I told my husband that when my son grows up and if he opts for arranged marriage and any girls side ask about caste I will only show them my
madhyama anguli..no asking and no answering is going to be the policy.

I cant understand why the majority of Hindus(all castes included) do not get a guilty feeling when facing God in prayer...that "I am treated at least with some respect but sadly some of my brothers and sisters are not treated with respect"

 

[Govinda]

When the rules of no bath was made could be it was the times where people took bath at temple ponds or tanks..so no contamination was allowed on hygienic grounds...but when there was bathrooms and water supply at home...do people still needed to follow this not allowing bath??

Renuka M'am,

Good analysis.

But, as the older generations respected privacy, the women had baths/cleaning chores after all the other members finished using the backyards (doors). Plus, they were all aradhakAs, who perform daily religious karmAs with sincerity. Plus, according to Smriti (parasara), one doing aradhana to the deities must be clean, they themselves had to take bath if they get unclean during the process - touching the body/hairs, touching other unbathed members etc. So, to avoid all these hazzles, hygiene environments were maintained. Plus, women stayed as home-makers, as only sevice to the Lord was the supreme goal for them. All hardsips were considered part of nature and service to the deities.

We have parted our ways, so we cant blame them!

Even if there are bathrooms (in India without water!) and napkins (polluting the world!) freely available, still they had to reman separate. Those new tools are for convenience, that doesnot rule out the concept of asuddhi (bad-energy) and not obstruct the worship. There are a lineage of iyengers, the men cook for the deities and do all worship. But olden days of joint-family, mother-in-law would cook, these daughter-in-law would rest, but now in single families where men dont cook, women had to cook even during those unhygienic days. May be they should do punyahavachanam. In foreign countries, where there are carpet-floors, everything is impure!

How about EQUALITY?! Those days, women should rest. Brahmin/Any men had to be taught cooking and house-hold chores! Hari-bOl!

 

[renuka]

Those new tools are for convenience, that doesnot rule out the concept of asuddhi (bad-energy) and not obstruct the worship.

Dear Govinda ji,

Technically there is no such thing as negative or positive energy.

I do not see how positive and negative get into the picture.

For all practical purposes the so called Asuddhi of a women is the shed endometrial lining of the uterus which is formed every month in body's preparation for implantation of a zygote...that endometrial lining is the cradle on which the fertilized zygote lies down to develop into a baby.

punarapi jananam punarapi maranam
punarapi jananii jathare shayanam

it is this endometrial lining the embryo lies on.

The endometrial lining is rich with blood and nutrients to cradle an embryo and this gets discarded every month as menstrual flow if a woman is not pregnant.

So if endometrial lining is impure to start with..I guess all of us started off life as impure and are walking personifications of impurity.


There is nothing which can obstruct worship if we Gatistvam Gatistvam to God:

विवादे विषादे प्रमादे प्रवासे
जले चानले पर्वते शत्रुमध्ये ।
अरण्ये शरण्ये सदा मां प्रपाहि
गतिस्त्वं गतिस्त्वं त्वमेका भवानि ॥७॥
Vivaade Vissaade Pramaade Pravaase
Jale Ca-[A]nale Parvate Shatru-Madhye |
Arannye Sharannye Sadaa Maam Prapaahi
Gatis-Tvam Gatis-Tvam Tvam-Ekaa Bhavaani ||7||

Meaning:
7.1: During Dispute and Quarrel, during Despair and Dejection, during Intoxication and Insanity, in Foreign Land,
7.2: In Water, and Fire, in Mountains and Hills, amidst Enemies,
7.3: In Forest, please Protect me,
7.4:You are my Refuge, You Alone are my Refuge, Oh Mother Bhavani.

Only an impure mind can obstruct worship.