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[KRS]

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Dear Sri Desi Ji,

Let me first ask Sri Nacchinarkiniyan Ji's forgiveness. He started this thread, I am sure with all eagerness to tell others his ideas about Hinduism. I ask his indulgence one last time. I will not be responding to you Sri Desi Ji, under this thread anymore after this. If you want to take our discussion elsewhere, please do so; I will respond.

Now, my response to Sri malgova.mango Ji and you so far is not because I believe in something and am defending it. It is rather because Sri mm Ji and yourself are intent on promulgating what is the 'Truth' about Hinduism based on your own beliefs.

The issue is not what I believe in, not even what Maha Periaval said, but rather, what transpired here in the Forum. Sri malgova.mango Ji could not appreciate the idea expressed by Sri Nacchinarkinyan Ji and so was harsh. Sri Ram Ji joined in, talking something about 'Vipareeta Buddhi' as if Sri Nacchinarkiniyan Ji's idea was far fetched.

I just gave you two examples of self realized giants in Hinduism (Sri Vivekananda Ji, who is attested as self realized by no other that Bhagawan Ramana Maharishi and Paramahamsa Yogananda, who is recognized as self realized, hence the title 'Paramahamsa') who have a different view than our Maha Periaval about who is a Brahmin. Yet you keep on citing Maha Periaval as the authority. Please understand that He is an authority when it comes to the Advatins like me. But, do you know that Sri Ramanuja Acharyal converted a huge number of non-brahmins in to being brahmins? Do you know that the way Sri Madhvacharys interpreted our Srutis was so different from what Sri Shankaracharya interpreted the Srutis, so much so that the Dwaitha philosophy has more in common with monotheism than the monism that the 'Advaitha' preaches.

So, just because these folks who are viewed as Brahmins nonetheless are not 'brahmins', because you accept Sri Shankaracharua's interpretation only?

And just by a sentence, you have eliminated the believers of the Ramakrishna Matam and the followers of Swamy Vivekananda's teachings, being included in your vision of Hinduism. How sad! I guess you are so learned, you can sit in judgement of people like Swamy Vivekananda! Guess what? I am no morse shocked. I know now what I am dealing with here.

This sort of dogmatic view based on different views within Hinduism leads nowhere. Unless we understand the many stranded views of whole of Hinduism and appreciate it, there will be no unity. This is the curse, precisely exhibited by the likes of you, who are wedded to one idea, just beacause of the sect you belong to. A strength of Hinduism that allows for worship in multitude is now turned in to a strict dogma, on an issue that has no relevance today.

Sir, you did attack me, asking me to go elsewhere. Folks who read these threads and understand where I am coming from understand that. But believe me, I don't believe in any victim hood. I believe in showing the people who you really are.

An intolerant person who sticks to an idea without any consideration to the multiplicity of ideas within Hinduism.

Science means starting with a hypothesis and examining it in the light of experimental truth. Sir, I am sorry to say, you are no scientist.

I will not be responding to you anymore in this thread.

Regards,
KRS

 

[Desi]

Dear KRS,

"This sort of dogmatic view based on different views within Hinduism leads nowhere. Unless we understand the many stranded views of whole of Hinduism and appreciate it, there will be no unity. This is the curse, precisely exhibited by the likes of you, who are wedded to one idea, just beacause of the sect you belong to. A strength of Hinduism that allows for worship in multitude is now turned in to a strict dogma, on an issue that has no relevance today."

In the name of opposing 'dogmatic view' you like to keep stirring the pot. That of course gives you importance!

"Yet you keep on citing Maha Periaval as the authority. Please understand that He is an authority when it comes to the Advatins like me."

If Mahaperiava is an authority for 'Advaitins like you', then you would not have cited others. Either you are not an advaitin or Mahaperiava is not your authority or both.!

"I will not be responding to you Sri Desi Ji, under this thread anymore after this."

Much better! Thank you! We can do something useful!

Regards,

 

[malgova.mango]

Dear Desi!

A warm welcome. I thoroughly enjoyed the above debates. You match audacity with audacity. For your ferocity the opponent is matchless.

If you have some useful ideas to share for the progress of humanity. Please enlighten us.

Regards

 

[vijisesh]

Absolutely,

When the Cat's asleep , the mouse will play !!

People never learn do they ?? Even after Mr.KRS has said that he's ready to reply to the discussions in another thread , why don't the interested parties start a thread on their own , rather than hijacking the other threads !

And if I am confident of what I speak , I feel that i should be able to convince other's maintaining my cool head !! sounds Logical right !

Hope the thread starter continues his good work thinking that " ithu arasiyalil sagajamappa !"

 

[Desi]

Dear MMji,

I was not trying to be audacious. And I don't have ill will against anyone including Mr.KRS even though I believe that we are parellels. He has a right to his opinions. People are prone to their likings. Let them enjoy it, after all that is the nature of life.

Alright Mr. Vijisesh. Why don't you start off giving some worthwhile suggestions? I am listening!

Regards,

 

[vijisesh]

Dear Desi ghee or Desi ji,

While I am with you for your following quote :

--This is precisely my point. Use this forum to advance the interest of Tamil Brahmins. Start another forum named 'abolish castes' or something to go on a different objective. For, I see endless threads on which people keep piling insults on the Brahmins per se or on each other, thus defeating our objective and frittering our energy. May be they don't have anything constructive to say!




I would like to repeatedly emphasize on people to start their own threads having their favourite subjects for discussion ! It's high time , we let
Uyar Thiru Nacchinarkiniyan ji , to continue !

He seems to be tentative and has already expressed his anguish , once before about the hijacking of threads that i mentioned earlier.

Thanks for your kind understanding !

 

[Desi]

What's that Desi 'ghee' supposed to mean?! Some kind of backhanded insult?

 

[vijisesh]

No not at all , A compliment!
Just like sweet malgova , you too have a cute name and 100 % purely desi - because your msgs seems straight as an arrow, pure and unadulterated , like pure desi ghee !
Come on boss, start your thread ,
I am ready for some mercury boiling debates / discussions !

What's that Desi 'ghee' supposed to mean?! Some kind of backhanded insult?

 

[Chintana]

Point taken. Thanks for the clarification.

Regards,
Chintana

Dear Sowbhagyavathi Chinatana Ji,

No, I did not take Sri Ram Ji's posting as an attack on myself. I was mainly writing to say that one should quote the referenced posting, otherwise the context is lost. Only when Sri Ram Ji did not say that he didn't remember who posted, I believe Sri N.R, Ranganathan jumped in.

I am sorry if I gave the wrong impression - I made the comment about addressing a different set of audience (excluding myself) only after Sri Ram Ji said that he did not understand my POSTINGS (in plural). Since I have posted only once to ask him a question about this particular posting, I took it to mean that he was talking about my responses to his other postings. Hence my response.

As I said, no foul, no harm.

Pranams,
KRS

 

[Chintana]

Dear Sri Malgova.Mango,

As this forum does not allow duplicate ids there can be only one person by the handle Nacchinarkiniyan.

So this specific question was not necessary. If you have a specific query or comment about what Sri Nacchinarkiniyan posted you could and should raise it.

Also keep the contents of one thread separate from the other please?

Regards,
Chintana

Dear Nachinarkeniyan !

Are you the same one who posted a thread on " Harmfull effect of varna .... "
to which I've replied today?

Please reply.

with mitra
malgova.mango

 

[Chintana]

Dear Sri Nacchinarkiniyan,

When a question such as the one Malgova.Mango asked (about whether it was you who posted in some other thread, or not), it would be premature to assess it as a negative criticism aimed at you.

If you feel that a certain poster's query or comment aimed specifically at your posting or something addressed as a question to you, is counter productive please explicity respond to the poster as such. It will be great if you could add a one-liner explaining why. Some of us are better at holding mature debates than others but we don't want to create an atmosphere where those posters who are knowledgeable (such as yourself) are ignoring the lesser informed posters (I am assuming such posters are being respectful and polite).

Silence as a policy may not be the best in every situation and I am pretty sure you do not need me to mention this to you.

If you want to present your views on this matter but prefer a private message please feel free to use that option.

Regards,
Chintana

I had said specifically in one of my earliest posts in this forum (that you were not interested in debates) [words in brackets are Chintana's]

 

[Chintana]

Dear Vijisesh,

While I appreciate your intentions behind this message I have to say that you sounded more like a moderator of this forum rather than a poster. Posters may adopt a - "Who are you to advice me?" - kind of an approach. Please avoid such interventions in future. If you think there is a problem please bring it to the notice of one of the admin members.

Regards,
Chintana

Dear malgova.mango,

Sorry for my untimely interruption , but I felt the need for it !

On Friendly terms , let me clear a few of your views on expressing views and opinions , in the relevant threads.

There is a dearth of ' Good poster's' who ' Add value ' to the forum ! So please don't shoo anyone away by hitting them straight , As said more often in so many threads by the Admin ,
" Aim the message or the post , not the poster !!"

On the other hand , you shall be much more appreciated if your spend your time clarifying your opinion / in a satvic manner !

I suppose " Controlling Temper " should be a versatile Quality of the Brahmin , may it be as per the varna system or from the hear say !

Let us keep the windows of the Brain OPEN , to listen to what the other's have to say and anyway , it is upto the individual to practice what ever he feels like ! A democratic world !!

 

[Chintana]

Dear Sri Ramaa,

Please be specific about who you are refering to. We have a policy of being direct and open in the forum. Simultaneously we do not compromise on respect.

Regards,
Chintana

An information is different from an opinion. Information is that which does not belong to the poster but the opinion is that of the poster.

When one's opinion is questioned, he has two options:
One is, he comes back to defend it;
the other is, he concedes that the opinion is wrong.

There seems to be a third variety which is to claim that the opinion is an information and thus neither defend it nor concede it when questioned!

It is up to the moderators to set the rules.

Also by way of caution people who post their opinion should be honest enough to stick to it instead of going back and editing it to avoid conceding that the views were wrong. If I were the moderator I would remove the edit button. If you have to change it just post another giving the change. There is honesty and decency in it!

This is only a caution that is not directed against any one. If cautioning is wrong I request the moderator to remove this posting of mine.

 

[Chintana]

Dear Sri Malgova.Mango,

In your specific postings in this particular thread, up until this posting of yours - I didn't see anything offensive in your words.

Regards,
Chintana

Dear Vijisesh!

I know what you are trying to convey. Hereafter I won't be interrupting you all. Anyway It dawned to I'm a wrong person in wrong place.

My intention is not offend but to clarify but if I offended my apologies.

Regards

malgova.mango

 

[Chintana]

Dear Vijisesh,

Again your intentions are good but it was not your job to advise Sri Malgova.Mango.

Chintana.

Dear malgova.mango ,

I truly understand your intentions and I feel that you have misunderstood my msg.

My observation is : Ever since I have joined this forum , I have seen some really " Learned Pundits " , who try and contribute their best , but some of them get de-motivated and attain moksha , when they confront some word warfare with some adamant poster's. They are now, silent observer's now and are no longer active contributors .

Now , ultimately , Who is going to be the loser ? , the group of people who visit this site to learn something about their religion !

And as they say " History repeats itself !" , there have been many instances when some stray remarks result in FRICTION , gain sufficient momentum to become IRRITATION , slowly getting transformed to FRUSTRATION and then the poster's resort to AVERSION from the threads !

On one side , when so much of time and money is being spent by the creator's and admins of this forum , it should be able to fetch some POSITIVE results !

Please don't take it OTHERWISE ! Believe me , i myself don't take more than 2 tea spoon fulls of FREE ADVISE per day , from anyone and I do not recommend it either !

So the bottom line is " Let us make full use of the resources and postings here to help us gain insight into our religion "

Thanks for your patient reading !

and Believe me ! , you are going to be the loser if you don't participate !

Get back fast with more info and queries !!

 

[Chintana]

Dear Sri Malgova.Mango,

This was the first posting of yours in this forum where I found the need to intervene. The maroon italics are my words.

Dear Vijisesh!
You are forcing me to reply.
When Nachinarkinayar Ji questioned the caste system with a mis-preceived conception, and assaulted the very spirit of "Veda" where are your "learned pundits" ? In Nirvikalpa Samadhi?

Not exactly a respectful question, is it? If you have a difference of opinion with Sri Nacchinarkiniyan all you have to say is, "Sri Nacchinarkinyan, I disagree with some of your views because...". We at this forum expect such maturity in our debates/debators/posters.


When the same lectured about Bhakti , I obviously, because of the conflicts in the articles posted wanted to know is it the same person as there can be 2 person under one name.. (No soul has even the small courtesy to acknowledge my clarifications. )

I hope my response provided you the clarification you needed.


You as if waiting for an "oppourtunity" started lecturing on the poster and the postings.

Yes, it was not Vijisesh's place to lecture you. I have posted two comments to him on this.

With all the modesty I didn't want to put up an argument. As it dawned to me that you all have a emotional bonding and any clarification by OUTSIDERS not going to be welcomed.

It is unfortunate that you have such a wrong opinion of this forum.

But Let me tell you this :-
It was a shock for me that you want to learn "VEDANTA" in your style. This is a total mockery for the respect given to that knowledge.
It is even more shocking that the elders of this e-society are willing to be e-guru even after you clearly mentioned that other pursuits left with no time to study.

What about Vijisesh's style of learning Vedanta? Why do you find it offensive? Also, to the best of my knowledge nobody in this forum claims any guru-level authority. I find this accusation unwarranted.

Please don't think that I have nothing to do but to give FREE ADVISE.

I don't think I'll lose anything by stopping to see your "contributions".

I hope I don't see such angry, disrespectful outbursts. State what you want to say clearly without resorting to descriptions, puns and sarcasm.

Thanks

Regards
malgova.mango

Regards,
Chintana

 

[Chintana]

Dear Sri Malgova.Mango,

Vijisesh's response was a build-off from Sri Ranganathan's welcome to Balaaji. I did not decipher anything in it that was aimed at you.

This following message of yours comes across as you wanting to see something aimed at you in what Vijisesh said. Please desist from making such rash conclusions.

Regards,
Chintana

Dear Mr Indirect!




One doesn't need to be a black belt “Master” to be a mosquito “Buster”


One doesn't need to be a “scholar” to correct the views of some “Posters”.



More direct duet with substance, if you have any, could be much more appreciated.


But please don't go to ***** level . I don't want to trigger another of that kind. Unless the Moderators are prepared to do “Punya Vachanam “ to the whole portal.


Regards
Malgova.mango

 

[Chintana]

Vijisesh,

This is a bad strategy. Never use sarcasm against a poster who has an issue with you/what you said. You only aggravate that person more. Please do not repeat this.

Chintana

Excellent ! comments malgova!

Now , please let us continue with the more important issues,

Thanks for your kind understanding !

 

[Chintana]

More anger and accusations.

Please come up with your own strategy of dealing with posters who annoy you. Please try to do that using respectful language.

This is a public place. You will encounter people of all stripes. Sure some people are more amenable to reason than others. If you find a particular person specifically annoying you should inform the admin instead of taking the matter into your own hands like this.

Regards,
Chintana

Dear Vijisesh!


Thanks for your compliments. Please don't worry. The world will not stop. The important issues will go on. Nothing is going to standstill.


If you have slight courtesy, reply me directly to the issues raised, without trying to skirt away. People will appreciate your courage believe me.


Come on! people jolly well knows that you are trying to carpet-cover the issues raised with big words.


On your comments on “Sad Bhavana” I fully agree with you, I 'll change it as suggested by you. See how easy is to deal directly with the issues raised. But with a puffed up “EGO” even this is difficult what do you say?


Regards
malgova.mango

 

[Chintana]

More sarcasm...more taunting...more bad strategy....

*Sigh*

Chintana

Dear sweet malgova ,

Thanks for your kind words . I really appreciate your view points and next time whenever i address any msg to you , I shall try and improvise myself , the way you want me to ,straight as an arrow i.e not skirting away from the issue .

And So .. let us wind up this episode here and pave the way for Mr.Nacchi to continue with his good work in this thread where our interactions aren't worth a penny!

My total surrender to you Oh ! Holy one !

Thanks , once again for the kind understanding !

 

[Chintana]

Sri Malgova.Mango,

Again, I need to set right some ideas you have about this forum.



Dear Sri KRSji!


Greetings. Thanks for your queries.


For Nachinarkinyar Ji, now you are the second person to defend. I welcome your directness. All this shows my conclusion on “Bonding” is not completely unfounded.

Simply because someone agreed with another person's views it doesn't mean there is some kind of an 'insider group' which doesn't let 'outsiders' in. So you are incorrect on that count.

Next, if there are posters who have been part of this thread for a long time and have mutual appreciation for each others' ideas there WILL be bonding. This forum was created to make such bonding happen. We are here to come together as a community. And you are consistently using the word "bonding" as if it is some kind of bad thing people should stay away from. This kind of insinuation is against the policies of this forum.



Before preceeding further. Let me get it clear what is fact and what is belief.


A “belief” is something that one doesn't ascertain (pramana) yet and assumed it to be.


For the sake of explanation , Let's presume this dialogue:
I'm a naive village man in Tanjore and your are from the holy city “Kashi” and I invite you to be a guest for that day. After attending to your needs , I start a converstaion :-


I – who are you sir?


You – Well I'm a so and so and I come from Kashi.


I – What is “Kashi”?


Y – Kashi is a holy city , where Lord “Vishwanathar with Mother Visalakshi” resides
with the Holy Ganges flowing and they have built Ghats on the sides of river . It's pictursque and so on.


I – Where is it?


Y- It is in the north, there are train facilities availabe and from chennai you got to take allahabad express so and so.


To me the whole city of Kashi and its existence is a matter of beilef.


To you the whole things are nothing but fact.


Now If , I don't believe what you said , then you can't do anything . You may simply say, you believe it or not it is up to you. I can't help it.


But if I twist the facts and said Kashi is there, but there are neither Lord nor Ganges flows there it is only a jungle and some grouds for cremation. This I tell to some naive public not to you, What you will say? You may ignore me, but to the naive public you will definetly tell hey! this man is twisting the facts. Would you tell or not.? Now, If I tell you it is a matter of belief , how do you feel ?

I am assuming that you are referring to Sri Nacchinarkiniyan's posting as "twisting of facts". I hope you understand our history is a lot more complicated than the simple example you have given.

“Fact” on the other hand is – If I say “that you have fingers in your hands” which is ascertainable is called Fact. Even if a devata came before you and said you don't have fingers or contradicatry what is ascertainable, you will not accept it, even if the devata is your Ishta Devata. There could be no possible arguments about facts.

There are actually tons of books written out there that discuss, "how to lie with statistics". The point I am trying to make is ascertaining a historical fact is a very complicated thing. Not as easy as you make it sound.

So if you have a difference in opinion voice it calmly. Do not go about accusing people.


As you agreed the “Rishis” imparted us “what is their “– clearly means – they taught us fact. That's why “Sruti's” are called “pramana's”


To say smirithis are irrelevant and can be challenged or doubted is another absurd logic.

I don't think so. What is "heard" is always purer that what is "remembered". When you "remember" something it is usually after the fact. But when you hear something it is current, live and the understanding immediate, instantaneous and fresh.

You may question this logic but it can by no stretch of imagination be called, "absurd".

I recommend you pay attention to your language.

Smirthis are rooted in Shrutis only. Truth revealed to “Seers” called “Sruti” the further explanation by the seers are called “smrithi's”.

I addressed this.


As for the “varna dharma” - “Purusha Shuktam” is the shruti pramana. In various scriptures notably in the famous pala shruti of Vishnu sahasranama the order of vana is hinted.


Summing up...


The caste system existed from time immemorial and no body created it. “Rishis” only endorsed and advised to preserve it for the benefit of the society. The caste system is “anadhi” same like “vedas” . The caste sytem is “ ever present order” . The very order is Ishvara.

If this is you view just state it and leave it at that. If posters agree with you they will say so. If they disagree with you they will say so. Why all this name-calling, anger and a general sense of getting so worked up?


Then why is so much hardship and confusion in the name of caste, is it necessary?


Well.......


As the saying goes “Dharmathin vahvuthannai suddhu kavvum , iruthiyil arame vellum” .


To get dis-order is also within the order. If we have a stomach dis-order, in the agony of pain,we may think why there is a thing called stomach there?. But after taking the essential remedies like medicine etc.., we are back to order and we will forget about the whole episode.

Another point you are making. Make this point in the specific threads that these issues are coming up and see how posters respond.

Finally....


To talk peace, at the same time stepping in the toes of others, is like christians actively promoting conversion with the pope showing olive branch. Muslims with the prayer may peace be unto you. Hypocrisy.

Well, one can inadvertantly step on the toes of others, no? Why don't you believe in the goodness of people a little more and given them the benefit of doubt? Afterall they are all Brahmins. They are ours. They are us. Can you show more tolerance?


Vanakkathudan
Malgova.mango

Regards,
Chintana

 

[Chintana]

Dear Sri KRS and Sri Malgova.Mango,

My responses below...

Originally Posted by malgova.mango
Dear Sri KRSji!

For Nachinarkinyar Ji, now you are the second person to defend. I welcome your directness. All this shows my conclusion on “Bonding” is not completely unfounded.

I do not know how you can jump to this 'bonding' conclusion just because I said that your response to sri Nacchinarkiniyan's posting was not justified. Again, I have already said what you said about bonding is not true. But you still continue to press the issue. This shows that you think what I said was untrue. Why would you think that I would lie about this? It would have been easy for me to say that yes, there is bonding and then what would you have done?

I responded to the "bonding" part of the reply in one of my earlier postings.

Before preceeding further. Let me get it clear what is fact and what is belief.
A “belief” is something that one doesn't ascertain (pramana) yet and assumed it to be.
I have deleted your story below for brevity.
To me the whole city of Kashi and its existence is a matter of beilef.
To you the whole things are nothing but fact.
Now If , I don't believe what you said , then you can't do anything . You may simply say, you believe it or not it is up to you. I can't help it.

But if I twist the facts and said Kashi is there, but there are neither Lord nor Ganges flows there it is only a jungle and some grouds for cremation. This I tell to some naive public not to you, What you will say? You may ignore me, but to the naive public you will definetly tell hey! this man is twisting the facts. Would you tell or not.? Now, If I tell you it is a matter of belief , how do you feel ?
“Fact” on the other hand is – If I say “that you have fingers in your hands” which is ascertainable is called Fact. Even if a devata came before you and said you don't have fingers or contradicatry what is ascertainable, you will not accept it, even if the devata is your Ishta Devata. There could be no possible arguments about facts.
As you agreed the “Rishis” imparted us “what is their “– clearly means – they taught us fact. That's why “Sruti's” are called “pramana's”
Sir, from the above I gather that you are from 'Kashi' and so you know it for a fact that what the Srutis say are true! This is not just a belief on your part, but you know it for a FACT! If so my namaskarams to you as you have truly attained the Seer status.

Please Sri KRS, even through solid logic could you please avoid any references to anyone having attained "The Truth"? Clearly Sri Malgova.Mango has not. So why bring it up?


If by chance, you have not attained this divyadrishti, as I asked you before, can you cite any slokas from our Srutis that say that the Rishis 'saw' what was the natural order of things? If you can not, is this not a matter of faith? What is wrong in admitting that it is?

Every religion starts with faith and ours is no exception.

I am assuming you know for sure that there is no shloka anywhere in the Shruthis that say that they "saw" the natural order of things. If this is the case please state it as such and move on. Please avoid references to "divyadrishti" and such.


To say smirithis are irrelevant and can be challenged or doubted is another absurd logic.
Please reread what I said - I did not say that Smritis are 'irrelevant'. I said when it comes to a matter of reconciling the differences between the Srutis and Smritis, what is said in the Srutis take precedence. Every respected Guru of our religion has said this.
Smirthis are rooted in Shrutis only. Truth revealed to “Seers” called “Sruti” the further explanation by the seers are called “smrithi's”.
I agree in part, as explained above.
As for the “varna dharma” - “Purusha Shuktam” is the shruti pramana. In various scriptures notably in the famous pala shruti of Vishnu sahasranama the order of vana is hinted.
Purusha Shuktham does talk about Varnas and Dharma. Does not say that it is heredity as the caste system has come to be. Is it Vishnu sahasranama or Vishnu Purana that talks about the creation and the Varnas? I read it in Vishnu Purana. Again 'there is no order' established. It is open to interpretation as Vishnu Purana is clearly a Smriti. But again a careful study of it will not give you the justification for the castes but rather only the four fold Varna aspect.

This is a much better form of rebuttal.

Summing up...

The caste system existed from time immemorial and no body created it. “Rishis” only endorsed and advised to preserve it for the benefit of the society. The caste system is “anadhi” same like “vedas” . The caste sytem is “ ever present order” . The very order is Ishvara.
Again a belief, not provable as 'fact'. Yes, as a Hindu I believe it, but does not mean that I go bonkers if others do not.



Then why is so much hardship and confusion in the name of caste, is it necessary?
Yes, it is absolutely necessary, because you are making unfounded statements.
Well.......
As the saying goes “Dharmathin vahvuthannai suddhu kavvum , iruthiyil arame vellum” .
To get dis-order is also within the order. If we have a stomach dis-order, in the agony of pain,we may think why there is a thing called stomach there?. But after taking the essential remedies like medicine etc.., we are back to order and we will forget about the whole episode.
How do you know this? Again did you have a vision?

Again, no "vision" references please!

Finally....
To talk peace, at the same time stepping in the toes of others, is like christians actively promoting conversion with the pope showing olive branch. Muslims with the prayer may peace be unto you. Hypocrisy.
I said 'Peace' only to ask you to calm down. Comparing my simple gesture to Islam and Christianity shows your status of mind. You easily use a word like 'Hypocrisy'. So, let me be more of a hypocrite:

'Peace be with you, brother' 'Om Shanti'
Pranams,
KRS.

Sri KRS, although extremely refined and polished, this is clearly your annoyance/anger coming through. As someone who has had a hard time with some posters I empathize with any poster who gets annoyed and angry at some responses. However I strongly encourage you to keep your rebuttals as direct, simple and unsarcastic as possible. Anything other than that would be counterproductive.


Vanakkathudan
Malgova.mango

Regards,
Chintana

 

[Chintana]

Why do you do this Vijisesh? What was the necessity to use Desi Ghee instead of just Desi Ji? Sri Desi is asking you whether it is an insult or not. In the name of humor please recognize that you are aggravating many posters. Why don't you keep straight to the point?

Chintana

No not at all , A compliment!
Just like sweet malgova , you too have a cute name and 100 % purely desi - because your msgs seems straight as an arrow, pure and unadulterated , like pure desi ghee !
Come on boss, start your thread ,
I am ready for some mercury boiling debates / discussions !

 

[Chintana]

Dear Sri KRS and Sri Desi,

I read your exchanges on postings #63-#72.

I see the fundamental divide in your positions is the following:

Sri Desi is concerned with citizenship questions.

Sri KRS is concerned with philosophical questions.

Sri Desi's concern is one of immediacy, survival and raises questions of activism within the community. This is the primary concern of every Tamil Brahmin still living in India.

Sri KRS is more concerned with liberation and the right kind of social duties which will lead to liberation.

So both of you are talking apples and oranges here. Both concerns are valid but they are essentially different in nature.

For purposes of citizenship there is no question that a Brahmin is defined and identified by birth (as are all other caste members).

For the purpose of attaining liberation (which is not the immediate community-level concern of Tamil Brahmins still living in India) a Brahmin is perhaps someone who is determined by his/her guna and is aided by appropriate Varna/Ashrama Dharma.

Dear both of you, please recognize these differences and try not to take offence at one another.

Sri KRS, disrespectful language has never been your style but in the postings referred to above I found quite a few instances where this value was not kept up. Please do the needful to avoid this. Also please recognize that questions of citizenship are burning issues in the minds of our brethren currently in India. The political climate has dinned into their minds that caste is determined by birth. Questioning that identity can be pretty stressful to those in the heat of the situation. So when you make your comments about your views can you please acknowledge somewhere in your posting that you are NOT discussing citizenship issues of Tamil Brahmins in India. I think this is where most of the confusion springs from.

I hope these comments clarify the standoff between you two and you will continue your valuable contributions.

Regards,
Chintana

 

[Desi]

Dear Sow Chintanaji,

Namaskaram. I laud you for your sensitive, sensible and objectove comments. I didn't realize that we were talking apples and oranges until you pointed out. You are a very able administrator indeed!

Most of us are not philosophical experts to contribute anything meaningfully. I was afraid such discussions would drive us into the wilderness. That is why I even suggested people with different agenda such as 'no caste' society etc. should start a different forum instead of disrupting this one.

I am a new comer and I come into this forum in a spirit of comradery with all and believe that it, the forum, could get involved with the happenings that affect the Brahmin community on a daily basis and to advocate the interest of the community for the short and long term keeping in view that we are all Hindus and Bharatham is our abode. In other words, to make this forum a platform to voice our serious concerns and profound aspirations. In this I do find people are not focussed and thereby becoming insensitive to the concerns of survival of all of us, lost in their pet ideas. The repeated questioning of us all as a community of Brahmins and a demand for redefinition therefore irks me to ask if there is any other idea behind such a relentless pursuit.

I have only tried to put forth my view as best as I could and sometimes there could have been anguish in such expression. I know they are all fellow Brahmins whose core values I share though they sport funny IDs!

In the limited time and energy we all have between competing interests I hope with your leadership we could certainly do something quite meaningful for the community using the advantage of this forum.

With warm regards,
Desi