Know more about Hinduism

[Chintana]

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Dear Sri Desi,

Thank you for your response. I realize that you mean well for us and our community.

But just as I mentioned to KRS that he probably needs to be aware of the problems of our current community in Tamil Nadu I need to mention something to you too.

Questions of identity, questions of who one is, where one belongs, what one is supposed to do to be a "good" Brahmin within the bounds of current social and economic constraints - these are burning questions for our brethren who have left the country. The answers to these questions make up some part of THEIR survival issues.

We want folks to talk about both kinds of issues - i.e., citizenship and philosophy.

So I request you too to be respectful of those views. If they are not in agreement with your current focus please move away from the discussion. Please do not say it is irrelevant. Our community has become so diverse that each group of people have different operating concerns. You have yours. Sri KRS has his.

So if you recognize this and proceed in your postings we can move forward productively.

I thank you again for your good words and hope that my remarks are taken in the right spirit.

Best Regards,
Chintana

Dear Sow Chintanaji,

Namaskaram. I laud you for your sensitive, sensible and objectove comments. I didn't realize that we were talking apples and oranges until you pointed out. You are a very able administrator indeed!

Most of us are not philosophical experts to contribute anything meaningfully. I was afraid such discussions would drive us into the wilderness. That is why I even suggested people with different agenda such as 'no caste' society etc. should start a different forum instead of disrupting this one.

I am a new comer and I come into this forum in a spirit of comradery with all and believe that it, the forum, could get involved with the happenings that affect the Brahmin community on a daily basis and to advocate the interest of the community for the short and long term keeping in view that we are all Hindus and Bharatham is our abode. In other words, to make this forum a platform to voice our serious concerns and profound aspirations. In this I do find people are not focussed and thereby becoming insensitive to the concerns of survival of all of us, lost in their pet ideas. The repeated questioning of us all as a community of Brahmins and a demand for redefinition therefore irks me to ask if there is any other idea behind such a relentless pursuit.

I have only tried to put forth my view as best as I could and sometimes there could have been anguish in such expression. I know they are all fellow Brahmins whose core values I share though they sport funny IDs!

In the limited time and energy we all have between competing interests I hope with your leadership we could certainly do something quite meaningful for the community using the advantage of this forum.

With warm regards,
Desi

 

[KRS]

Dear Sowbhagyavathi Chintana Ji,

I have to apologize to you and the other Forum members who know me for not following what I preached. In the heat of discussions, I have been sarcastic and was not respectful to some members of the Forum. In the name of defending myself against what I considered as personal attacks, I have become combative.

While I agree with you that I am more interested in the Philosophical questions, I hope everyone here would also agree that I am also concerned about unity amongst us, while having a civilized debate. You have already addressed this issue, so I will stop here.

Pranams,
KRS

Sri KRS, disrespectful language has never been your style but in the postings referred to above I found quite a few instances where this value was not kept up. Please do the needful to avoid this. Also please recognize that questions of citizenship are burning issues in the minds of our brethren currently in India. The political climate has dinned into their minds that caste is determined by birth. Questioning that identity can be pretty stressful to those in the heat of the situation. So when you make your comments about your views can you please acknowledge somewhere in your posting that you are NOT discussing citizenship issues of Tamil Brahmins in India. I think this is where most of the confusion springs from.

 

[Fehu]

Dear members I came across a series of articles on hinduism from a Vaishnavite containing some critical remarks on Sankara matams etc this is being used by Nakeeran to set Iyengars against Iyers. how are we going to counter this? We have left Periyar to glorify his movement and denigrate Gods

http://nakkeran.com/Hindusamayam2005.htm

Fehu

 

[vijisesh]

Dear Chinthana,

Excellent moderation ! and you have done an excellent job ! It would've been better if either you or silver fox (whereabouts ??) could've intervened at the right time. You guys would've smelt the spark and stopped the fire !
Any way it's never too late !
Now you have convinced me that my initial statement that we TB's have sufficient maturity and sync wavelengths to carry on with a debate with minimum moderation IS WRONG.
What more to say ? Personally as i have said before , i start counting from 1 to 10 in english, tamil hindi, arabic to control my temper and whatever emotions come out is the left over only!
Everyone has his own limit of exercising control over his temper , emotions etc but hat's off to this forum and members , owing to my participation in this forum , I have gained more on controlling my temper degrees.

Sarcasms in my postings - not exactly as i would put it , just to make an impact to the poster the msg that " We all have our own self respect , we all are responsible individuals and have come here with a mission of learning some thing from anyone capable of delivering " and whenever some one causes hindrance to the above or someone criticizes you and not your msg , you have to give them back !" --
otherwise you may be having sleepless nights ! can't risk that !! can you ??

Believe me, i never meant to add ghee to aggravate the FIRE !

 

[Chintana]

Dear Sri Malgova.Mango,

Your posting sounded like you are cheering some kind of a boxing match. This is not a forum that declares winners based on verbal fights. We are here to discuss in a mature manner (which can of course get heated sometimes).

So it is very wrong to incite one poster against another. I hope you will refrain from doing this in the future.

Best,
Chintana

Dear Desi!

A warm welcome. I thoroughly enjoyed the above debates. You match audacity with audacity. For your ferocity the opponent is matchless.

If you have some useful ideas to share for the progress of humanity. Please enlighten us.

Regards

 

[Nacchinarkiniyan]

Dear Sri Nacchinarkiniyan,

When a question such as the one Malgova.Mango asked (about whether it was you who posted in some other thread, or not), it would be premature to assess it as a negative criticism aimed at you.

If you feel that a certain poster's query or comment aimed specifically at your posting or something addressed as a question to you, is counter productive please explicity respond to the poster as such. It will be great if you could add a one-liner explaining why. Some of us are better at holding mature debates than others but we don't want to create an atmosphere where those posters who are knowledgeable (such as yourself) are ignoring the lesser informed posters (I am assuming such posters are being respectful and polite).

Silence as a policy may not be the best in every situation and I am pretty sure you do not need me to mention this to you.

If you want to present your views on this matter but prefer a private message please feel free to use that option.

Regards,
Chintana

What ever I have posted and continue to post is a point of view. Since we are dealing with Religious, Philosophical and Social issues there is nothing called a correct point of view. This is not mathematics where 2 plus 2 is always 4.

I am not interested in converting anyone to my point of view. I accept all points of view though I may not agree.

I will respond only if I feel that the poster is seeking a clarification about my posts.

 

[Ramaa]

Sri Nachinarkinian's views are fascinating! This means the following: (could be more!)

a) This thread or any thread that Sri Nachinarkinian starts is there only to propagate his view and not a topic of discussion;

b) We could all discuss what he said such as we do on Veda Vaakya but he would not respond or participate;

c) He would provide clarification if sought but would not respond if a lacuna is pointed out; and

d) No, he would not concede that the contrary opinion is valid or not but just another opinion like his! for example, take his view:

Since we are dealing with Religious, Philosophical and Social issues there is nothing called a correct point of view. This is not mathematics where 2 plus 2 is always 4.

Could we not narrow something down to what is best for a group of people such as Brahmins on whose homogenous definition we all have agreed, at a given time and at a given circumstance? Could that be 2 + 2 = 4?

I think his views remind me of the definition of a 'swaraat' or emperor! A man of his own island!!

Pretty good!! Or is it?

 

[Chintana]

If you have a policy of responding only to posters that seek clarification from you, please let that posters know that. Your silence comes across as snobbery. That is not healthy for this forum.

Best Regards,
Chintana

What ever I have posted and continue to post is a point of view. Since we are dealing with Religious, Philosophical and Social issues there is nothing called a correct point of view. This is not mathematics where 2 plus 2 is always 4.

I am not interested in converting anyone to my point of view. I accept all points of view though I may not agree.

I will respond only if I feel that the poster is seeking a clarification about my posts.

 

[Nacchinarkiniyan]

If you have a policy of responding only to posters that seek clarification from you, please let that posters know that. Your silence comes across as snobbery. That is not healthy for this forum.

Best Regards,
Chintana

What is healthy for this forum? People calling names? Where were you when people called me all sorts of names? I have been a member of many forums since 1997. I am also a moderator of a couple of forums and groups.

But I have never come across an instance where a member is taken to task for not responding to abuses.

May be many of my threads are not to your liking. I can only interpret your earlier message and this message. "The owners do not like you. Please leave."

May be this will make some members happy and some others sad. I am neither angry nor sad. Only disappointed.

 

[Fehu]

[Dear Nachi,
there is no point in instilling advice to persons who are not yet understanding things.I have seen all your posts avidly.You are an expert in your area and all my respects for that.
Fehu


quote=Nacchinarkiniyan;10707]What is healthy for this forum? People calling names? Where were you when people called me all sorts of names? I have been a member of many forums since 1997. I am also a moderator of a couple of forums and groups.

But I have never come across an instance where a member is taken to task for not responding to abuses.

May be many of my threads are not to your liking. I can only interpret your earlier message and this message. "The owners do not like you. Please leave."

May be this will make some members happy and some others sad. I am neither angry nor sad. Only disappointed.[/quote]

 

[Chintana]

Sri Nacchinarkiniyan,

I meant to engage you in a conversation about the issue I raised.

I did not expect such a backlash from you.

As to people calling names - wherever possible, whenever possible the admin team has stopped it. I think you have been with us long enough to know this.

Also I have mentioned this a number of times before - this is entirely a volunteered effort and we try to be there when we can in the midst of our personal pressures. So it is unfair of you to ask "Where were you when people were calling names?" As none of the posters are paying us to do our jobs nobody has the right to play employer. If you felt that there was some member who was specifically problematic and didnt see a response from the admin all you had to do was send a private message to any member of the admin team to look into the issue. That would be a productive way to go.

You cannot expect that the moderators will be there all the time. That is not a reasonable expectation. We at the admin cannot fulfill. Let us be clear about that.

I never mentioned anything about your threads not being to my liking. If you have noticed I try to keep the best interests of the forum while moderating. So your accusation is unfair.

I was specifically referring to Malgova.Mango's query as to whether you were the same person who responded in some other thread or not. I saw you had not responded. I did not see anything wrong with Malgova.Mango's question. So your silence came across as unwarranted.

This was my rationale behind my comment to you. If you feel that I might have missed something in my reasoning you are most welcome to point it out. But this outburst from what I have noticed as an otherwise knowledgeable (and quite spiritual, if I may add) person, does not befit you.

While many of us are knowledgable none of us are perfect. I am very aware of my imperfections and limitations while performing my job as a moderator. I try to be very quick about apologizing if someone has pointed to something I missed. But it is very difficult for me (and for anyone else for that matter) to respond productively if anything is stated in a scolding, negative tone.

I respect you for your knowledge. But I hope you are not implying that I should not suggest a change in your strategy if I feel it is in the best interests of the forum.

Best Regards,
Chintana

What is healthy for this forum? People calling names? Where were you when people called me all sorts of names? I have been a member of many forums since 1997. I am also a moderator of a couple of forums and groups.

But I have never come across an instance where a member is taken to task for not responding to abuses.

May be many of my threads are not to your liking. I can only interpret your earlier message and this message. "The owners do not like you. Please leave."

May be this will make some members happy and some others sad. I am neither angry nor sad. Only disappointed.

 

[Chintana]

Fehu,

I am sorry you feel that way.

Chintana

[Dear Nachi,
there is no point in instilling advice to persons who are not yet understanding things.I have seen all your posts avidly.You are an expert in your area and all my respects for that.
Fehu


quote=Nacchinarkiniyan;10707]What is healthy for this forum? People calling names? Where were you when people called me all sorts of names? I have been a member of many forums since 1997. I am also a moderator of a couple of forums and groups.

But I have never come across an instance where a member is taken to task for not responding to abuses.

May be many of my threads are not to your liking. I can only interpret your earlier message and this message. "The owners do not like you. Please leave."

May be this will make some members happy and some others sad. I am neither angry nor sad. Only disappointed.

[/quote]

 

[vijisesh]

Cool it Folks !

Dear Mr.Nacchinarkiniyan / Ms Chintana ,

I agree that I do not have authority to intervene, but " Krishna " has to show himself when the world needs him !, so I am here !

I appreciate the opening up of emotions from both yourself and Ms Chinthana , with all honesty and clearly establishing your stands ! What more is required !

I remember the phrase " Do your work and leave the rest to GOD !" , and I find two distinctive individuals doing their duties in this forum , with more than 100 % enthusiasm , 100 % Interest and 200 % dedication !

Hat's off to both of you , Continue your good work !

 

[Ramaa]

Hinduism, among other things, stands on three important pillars. They are (a) Karma and reincarnation (b) Dharma and (c) Moksha or Liberation. These three are very important topics and every Hindu should have a rudimentary understanding of them in order to be able to pursue his/her objective in life.

 

[Ramaa]

The essence of advaita vedAnta is given in a nutshell in the following Sloka
in nArAyaNIyam of nArAyaNa bhaTTatiri (daSaka 98, Sloka 7):--

bhUshAsu svarNavadvA jagati ghaTaSarAvAdike mRttikAvat

tattve sancintyamAne sphurati tadadhunApyadvitIyam vapuste |

svapnadrashTuH prabodhe timiralayavidhau yadva-

dvidyAlAbhe tathaiva sphuTamapi vikaset kRshNa tasmai namaste ||

tattve sancintyamAne- When one reflects on the true nature of things,
bhUshAsu svarNavadvA—like gold in ornaments, or,
ghaTaSarAvAdike—in pots and other vessels, mRttikAvat—like clay,
jagati- in the universe,
tat advitIyam te vapuH—That non-dual aspect of thine (alone),
adhunA api—even now (when we experience the universe as existing),
sphurati- shines.
svapnadrashTuH- for the dreamer,
prabodhe- on waking up,
timiralayavidhau—when the darkness is removed (by light),
jIrNarajjoH ca- of the worn-out rope also,
yadvat tathA eva—in the same way itself,
vidyAlAbhe—on the dawn of knowledge,
sphuTam vikaset api—the Reality will also shine clearly,
(he) kRshNa, tasmai te namah—O kRshNa, prostrations to Thee, who art that
(the Reality).

When one reflects on the true nature of things, one will realize that,
just as there is nothing but gold in all gold ornaments, and nothing but
clay in all pots and other earthen vessels, so also, there is only Thy
non-dual Self in reality even when this universe is seen as existing. This
Reality will shine clearly on the dawn of knowledge, just as the things seen
in a dream are found, on waking up, to have never existed and the worn-out
rope (which was mistaken for a snake) is seen clearly when the darkness is
removed by a light. O kRshNa, prostrations to Thee who art that Reality.
-----------------------------
Thanks to my friend S.N.Sastri who sent this to me.

 

[N.R.Ranganathan]

Know more about hinduism

Dear Mr.Ramaji,
Every verse of 'Narayaneeyam' is approved by Lord Krishna and it is
therefore authentic. It is quite true that according to non-dualistic vedanta
a cause is non-different from its effect. Gold is the cause and bracelet is the
effect. What differentiates the gold from the bracelet is a name. Similarly,
if you know the clay, you know the pot. Pot is made out of clay. Names and
forms only are different. There is no difference between Brahman ,the cause
and the universe, its effect. Therefore, Vedanta says " All this is verily
the Brahman ".

Chandogya upanishad says " By knowing one nugget of gold all that is made
of gold is known, the difference being only in a name arising from speech,
but the truth is that all is gold " ( Ch .up vi -1-5 ). Similarly, if clay is known,
all that is made out of clay is known, the difference is only in name and form,
and the truth is nothing but clay. ( Ch.up vi-1-4 ).

The famous mahavakya " Tat-tvam-asi " is taught in this upanishad by
way of a story.

 

[Nacchinarkiniyan]

Hinduism grew by Acceptance and Absorption

Yesterday I had attended a Sastha Preethi celeberation. This is a function in honour of Dharma Sastha/ Hariharan/ Ayyappan. The Pujas start in the morning, Followed by more than 2 hours of Bajan and then of course a sumptuous Saddhi. Attended by Tamil Brahmins (mostly) from the southern districts of Tamil Nadu and Kerala.

Later many of the older people were racalling the Sastha Preethis in their home towns. Most of the Brahmin villages in Pandi Nadu and Kerala have a long tradition of the annual Sastha Preethi. I would be happy to know whether this tradition is there in Tanjore, Trichy and other places.

All in all a wonderful experience and day of feeling one with the community.

The reason for my post is that Hariharan/Sastha was not one of the main deities of Hinduism. Though Puranic in origin, the worship became popular when people got fed up of the rivalry between Saivas and Vaishnavites. There is an old saying in Tamilzh "Hariyuam Haranum Onnu, Ariyathavar vayil Mannu".

But Sastha was considered only a Kaval Deivam. In villages his temple was in the outskirts. Very much similar to Ayyanar and Madan temples. There is a small piece of land among the paddy fields owned by us where our ancestors had installed a couple of stones representing Sastha. He was there to protect our lands. Though there was no regular puja whenever any special pujas were held, we had a puja there. Today Ayyappan is a major God attracting millions of devotees of all castes and classes from all over India.

Once when I had posted that many of our Hindu Gods/Goddesses had a tribal origin, I was almost blasted out. But here we were Brahmins worshiping a stone in the middle of a paddy field. In what way am I different from the so called Tribals?

The westerners who came to India were struck by the different ways Hindus worshipped their Gods/Goddesses. They tried to classify the Deities as main stream and non-main stream. Later on they introduced the concept of mainstream Hindu deities and tribal deities. This was used to divide us and get the tribals to convert to their religion. Some of our Hindu scholars also played into their hands by emphasizing this so called divide.

The fact is that there is no such divide. The religion of the tribals and all other castes is Hinduism. The theory that the Brahmins imposed their Deities on Tribals is wrong. It was always a two way traffic. The ancient Brahmins were not interested in either imposing their ideas or ruling anyone. They absorbed the traditions of all the people living in India. You accept the supremacy of the Vedas and you are a Hindu. No need to even know what the Vedas are about.

It has been conclusively proved that Siva, Krishna and Amman in many forms were originally the Deities of the so called tribes of India. The Puranas played a major role in bringing all these deities into Hinduism.

To take a Tamil Nadu example Mariamman is a popular Deity in Tamil Nadu. Though this form is mentioned in Devi Mahatmya, this form of worship is confined to Andhra Pradesh, Tamil Nadu and Kerala. Fifty years back Mariamman was not considered by many Brahmins to be a Brahmanical Goddess. They used to have a annual Kodai. The worshippers were mostly non Brahmin castes. But even the there were some Brahmins who worshipped her.

Now most of the Brahmins worship her. In some places the temples are called Bhagavathi temples. One of the most thrilling experience in my life was our participation in the Poocchorithal Thiru Vizha of Samayapuram Mariamman where we poured flowers on MAA.

This is the greatness of Hinduism and our seers. They accepted all forms of worship and absorbed the various ways into Hinduism.

 

[kunjuppu]

thank you nacchinarkiniyan. your postings are awesome in their content and outlook.

 

[malgova.mango]

On Vedic Rituals

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Sense of gratitude – The whole culture is built-up based on acknowledging and welcoming good done, even if it is by animal or plant or even inanimate objects and glorifying their deeds.[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]That's why plants,trees , cows and rivers are venerated. [/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Failing to recognize, remember and welcoming good things will result in mis-fortunes.[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Vedic Rigs contains many verses in praise of the virtues of variety of known and unknown beings for the good things they have been doing to us from time immemorial.[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Vedic Rituals teaches how to welcome good things and express sense of gratitude by Body, Speech and Mind. [/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Vedic rituals vary from simple to very complex. The wide variety of choice are availabe to suit different needs of the people. For example, if one want's to express gratitude to one's fore-parents it can be done in many ways. From offering sesame seeds and water , the simplest mode to an elaborate performance of Shrardda on the other end.[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Elders are of the opinion Kalpa shastra which expounds “Rituals” is the Hand of Veda Purusha.[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Our fore-parents sought the helping hand of Veda Purusha in their various pursuits with a proper mind-set and achieved the results. [/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Elders are of opinion , even though Moksha is not directly dependent on any Karma or ritual. The Ritual helps to purify and remove obstacles and have an uncanny knack in the maturation of a person. It brings him near to understanding the subject matter of Upanishads. [/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]In other countries where Vedic rituals are not found, only Kama and Artha is the pursuit. They talk about heaven and they stop there. For us even the heaven is conditioned by time , upon the exhaustion of the merits one falls down from there.[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]The pursuit of liberation is totally absent or stunted or mis-guided (this is especially the case of Buddhism) in their cultures.[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Buddhism's idea of Moksha is refuted by Advaitins. Interestingly in Tibetian Buddhism, the practice of “Vedic fire rituals” , “Bhumi Puja” are all found. [/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]I wrote this to express my gratitude on Vedic rituals and to specifically highlight that the “ Hands of Veda Purusha” is benevolent one indeed.[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Though I'm not competent enough in the matters of religion and culture and given to the ways of Mlechha , I could not help to appreciate the wonders of Vedic culture. Forgive my prantings and please correct me, for any mistakes. [/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Vanakathudan[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Malgova.mango[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]A small note - Shiva Puranam details the cause of Buddhism.[/FONT]

 

[devarajan]

Salvation

Vijisesh had written about the shortest path to God. Since most of us are familiar with Chennai, I would like to quote an example.

Suppose you have to go to Central from Nungambakkam. Not a long distance. You can go by your own vehicle, Taxi, Auto, Bus and by foot also. Now if you go by taxi or auto there is no standard route. Every auto guy has his own preferred route and he tells you that this is the shortest or the best route. Of course if you are new to Chennai he will take you via Anna Nagar.

Now when there are so many ways of reaching Central from Nungambakkam, how do you expect a single way to the long destination of reaching God. There are ever so many ways, and like the auto guys everyone swears that his way is the shortest.

You are not even sure of your exact destination. Are you sure about exactly what you want? You want to be a Yogi/Siddha and get Ashtama siddhis? or do you want to be a Sannyasi and become a wandering monk? Or is your way of Suddha Advaita of Bagavan Ramana Maharishi?

There are no readymade answers. We are all seekers one way or the other. Seek and you shall find the answers. No instant Samadhi or instant Kundalini. I believe only in instant coffee.

Again talking about salvation, if God appears before you today and asks you whether you want Moksha immediately, almost all of us would reject the offer talking about son's education, daughter's marriage or great grand son's seemandham.

GOD IS INFINITE. SO ARE THE WAYS TO ATTAIN HIM !!
THERE R. CERTAINLY MANY WAYS
( SOURCE- AUROBINDO )

 

[N.R.Ranganathan]

Dear Mr.Vijisesh,
I refer to your piece on the requirements of a disciple posted elsewhere,
but I am posting mine here since this thread is more appropriate.

Sathguru Gnanananda sums up what is required of a disciple in pursuit of
Brahman :-

The Guru appears when the place of the heart has been found. In order to
reach it, personal effort and perseverance are needed. Underlying this effort
there has to be one single intention which focusses all the strength of your
being in a single direction. Singleness of intention, singleness of aim, single
minded search for the ATMAN -these are the essential conditions of spiritual
realization.

You must have seen those young divers at the sea-ports who wait for the
passengers to throw down small coins from the deck. The Atman is like a
coin which has fallen to the bottom of the sea. In order to recover it, you
have to dive straight down holding your breath, and with your body held
straight as an arrow. The sea is the mind, manas. The waves are the
vritti, the ceaseless movements of our mind, the eddies of our thoughts.
To see where to dive, you have to still the waves. To discover the place
of the Atman, you will have to still your thoughts. To still the waves, you
have to find what is causing them and know where they are coming from.
In the same way, we have to seek within ourselves the place in which our
thoughts are born and from which they fly out in different directions. When
the water has become calm and clear, it is easier to find the coin. And the
mind can even become so calm and motionless that it is as if the water
had been frozen solid !.

The GRACE of the GURU, the Grace of the Lord, is the seed sown in the
ground. No one , whoever he may be, is ever deprived of this seed. But is it
enough simply to place the seed in the ground ? Does not the soil have to
be prepared, manured and watered ? Otherwise, what is the use of sowing
the seed ? And once the seed has germinated, don't you have to continue
watering, hoeing, pulling out the weeds ? All that is the effort, which no one
can shirk, and without which Grace can not do its work in you.

Do you make a fire with green wood ? You have to cut down the branch and
let it dry. Only after it is dry it will burn. The fire is the grace. The preparation
of the wood is the sadhana, the effort made by one who really
wants to succeed.

( courtesy : Swami Abhishiktananda's book titled " Guru and Disciple ".)

 

[malgova.mango]

Dear Renganathan Ji!

This is really good, for beings like me.


Thanks a lot

vanakathudan
malgova.mango

 

[malgova.mango]

Dear Renganathan,

In one of your posts, you have quoted on the need for desireless state and also it is something "Ugly" by that do you mean the improper desires , like Ravana's desire for Rama's wife ? Or even proper desires? Because, In "Chamaka Prasnam" we pray to Lord to give desire "Kamas chame". So could you please clarify?

vanakathudan
malgova.mango

 

[vijisesh]

Dear Shri Ranganathan ji,

My humble comments in italics ..

Dear Mr.Vijisesh,
I refer to your piece on the requirements of a disciple posted elsewhere,
but I am posting mine here since this thread is more appropriate.

Agreed , as long as an earnest free willing response is given to the query / msg (avoiding going around in circles as done by many in this forum !) , I shall eagerly await your response even in the moon rather than any thread in this site !

Sathguru Gnanananda sums up what is required of a disciple in pursuit of
Brahman :-

The Guru appears when the place of the heart has been found. In order to
reach it, personal effort and perseverance are needed. Underlying this effort
there has to be one single intention which focusses all the strength of your
being in a single direction. Singleness of intention, singleness of aim, single
minded search for the ATMAN -these are the essential conditions of spiritual
realization.

Absolutely , to attain success in whatever one perceives , One needs to stay focussed , with a positive attitude .... etc etc ... but when it comes to understanding GOD, I really doubt if he would've made the path to him so difficult ! It should be as simple as the mother's love rather than a father's discipline ! I know as you have quoted the words of some great people , very few have the authority to question the integrity of these statements !!

You must have seen those young divers at the sea-ports who wait for the
passengers to throw down small coins from the deck. The Atman is like a
coin which has fallen to the bottom of the sea. In order to recover it, you
have to dive straight down holding your breath, and with your body held
straight as an arrow. The sea is the mind, manas. The waves are the
vritti, the ceaseless movements of our mind, the eddies of our thoughts.
To see where to dive, you have to still the waves. To discover the place
of the Atman, you will have to still your thoughts. To still the waves, you
have to find what is causing them and know where they are coming from.
In the same way, we have to seek within ourselves the place in which our
thoughts are born and from which they fly out in different directions. When
the water has become calm and clear, it is easier to find the coin. And the
mind can even become so calm and motionless that it is as if the water
had been frozen solid !.

The GRACE of the GURU, the Grace of the Lord, is the seed sown in the
ground. No one , whoever he may be, is ever deprived of this seed. But is it
enough simply to place the seed in the ground ? Does not the soil have to
be prepared, manured and watered ? Otherwise, what is the use of sowing
the seed ? And once the seed has germinated, don't you have to continue
watering, hoeing, pulling out the weeds ? All that is the effort, which no one
can shirk, and without which Grace can not do its work in you.

Do you make a fire with green wood ? You have to cut down the branch and
let it dry. Only after it is dry it will burn. The fire is the grace. The preparation
of the wood is the sadhana, the effort made by one who really
wants to succeed.


Nowadays FIRE comes quick from the gas-lighter , so simple !
I agree that the verse ' Nogaamal Nongu saapida mudiyathu !" meaning that there should be a definite % age of effort into gaining something !


( courtesy : Swami Abhishiktananda's book titled " Guru and Disciple ".)

I have a feeling that out of the many approaches to reach GOD , most of which having tough procedures like penance and meditation , there should
be an easier approach to reach the almighty by just loving him and his creation and doing the normal routine ! - Possible ??

 

[N.R.Ranganathan]

Know more about hinduism

Dear Mr.Vijisesh,
About the Bakthi route, we have , I think, adequate material in this
thread. This is the easiest.