How should we overcome our desires?

[Naina_Marbus]

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If I know the mesenger, the message becomes better.
Cheers!

Raghy Sir: That was the point of my message. I can empathise with your post in all its entirety.

 

[Raghy]

Raghy Sir: That was the point of my message. I can empathise with your post in all its entirety.

That is very smart of you. my own message is very nicely quoted. I never knew this!

Cheers!

 

[Raghy]

Sowbagyavathy Amirtha, Greetings.

I refer to your message in post #172.

I know exactly who I am. I am not talking about self realised person. I am just talking about my physical and emotional self. I am not here to change or ridicule other people ideas or thinking. I respect and appreciate other people input because I learn from it. I was attracted by your honest writings and trying get best out of myself ( I am selfish). Even now while I am reading this I can relate to this to my personal life.

Kind Regards
Amirtha

( I am not able to send or receive private mails. Will you be able to tell me how to do it? Thanks)

I sincerely hope, all the commotions and excitements are settled down now. For some reason, your identity was mistaken as a male member. There was even a hint of myself writing in your identity. I don't know why though. Anyway, I know you are not my identity, because I am not writing under your name.

In your request about PM, and in the way you sign off, I notice Aussie lingo. Anyway, you got the reply about PM from Sri.Praveen.

My writings are very simple. They sound honest because they are just truth. I am just leading a simple life, like to share my views based on my life experiences. Since my life was very simple, most persons can relate their life to mine. I am just the 'Joe Bloke down the street'.

I hope There can be more conversations and more inputs from you in this forum. Just cheer up and start sharing your views, please.

Cheers!

 

[Raghy]

Dear Amirtha, Raghy and Renuka,

The posts make quite an interesting reading. May I ask the three of you a basic question? What do you mean by Ananda (the sat and chit can be ignored now). Please.

Sri. Raju, Greetings.

I can't provide you with a scholarly opinion. In my opinion, 'Anada' is a state. We feel 'ananda' through our mind. So, it is a state of our mind. At this state we are emotionally connected to the willing recepient at the other end. Such connections are after a trust is formed. Sometimes such a trust is formed in a very short span of time due to learned behaviours and due to the approach. Anada is not permanent. It is only short lived. We may have frequent instances of connection though. These are just my opinions, learned from my own life.

 

[Raghy]

That is a play with words and phrases. A subjective experience can never really be described. Can you say with certainty when you experience (see) green I too experience(the word 'experience' in place of 'see' is deliberately chosen here-think about it) green? In the ultimate analysis we are all individually bottled up in a container and are all terribly lonely there. We cant even really express what we see leave alone the 'felt Ananda'. When I meet the Doctor Renuka with pain in my neck I can only say it pains. I can not say 'how' it pains.

Cheers.

Dear Sri. Raju, Greetings.

It is true. I cant experience the same 'green' as you do when both of us stand in front of a carefully manicured lawn. The 'green' are different to every individual. More often than not most vivid colours and images are coupled with some kind of experience in our own life which is very personal to us. Sometimes they are coupled with olfactory senses too. Once I was raising this question in a seminar. My question was taken in a lighter vein and people were laughing, comparing my description with hallucinations! But, it is true. We don't experience colours alike ( That's why we have so much discussion about choosing colours while painting the interior. I actually feel few colours 'suffocating!').

But in the case of 'ananda' it is a bit different. In my opinion, it is energy flowing from one source to the other when the connections is made. It's 'just the connection, no questions asked' situation. I don't think there can be too much verbal conversations. The few times I vividly remember, there were no verbal conversations. Results were not permanent either.

Cheers!

 

[Raghy]

I am quite amazed Raghy mama at your naivete. I knew ages and ages ago in life, real and virtual people are more important than their message. Many times. Even when i was new to this forum I could quickly see that! Even in politics, or rather especially in politcs, don't most people vote for the person.

My post has got nothing to do with this thread and the whole "Amirgate" thing .

Sowbagyavathy Amala, Greetings.

I seem to survive with my naivete. I am 55; I did not have to pay more importance to a person than a message in my life so far. It is true I lost few friendships due to my such behaviour; but then again, were they worth it? I questioned the elders in the family about few of the decisions they made about my life ( and became quite unpopular). In such instances too, I valued the message more than the messenger. It's quite possible I am not very smart in life. I am sure there are more persons like me.

By the way, 'Amirgate' thing, eh? I am really curious, what would be the reaction if 'Amirtha' is a real person even with a 'real name' and really a girl/lady? Where would all this doubting thomases hide themselves? Something tells me, This is for real. I may be very naive;but most often than not my senses had not failed me yet.

Cheers!

 

[Raghy]

Greetings.

Most of my desires are not just for my benefit. Sometimes they are not for my benefit at all. Since my age of 20, I don't remember going after a desire just for my self-benefit. Recent days I just have a niche of JD once a week; even that, I turn in to listening and preparing a list of songs for my wife to enjoy. ( For the past few weeks she was sitting with me listening to songs as I was posting them!).

My mind is just drifting..... once I had an apprentice. No, this guy was not an apprentice at work; but he moved with me to every place I worked. He just stayed with me for about 6 years to learn the trade from me. He did too. An youngster from Kerala by the name Krishna Kumar. My wife used to treat him like her own brother. Often times he would eat at our place. There were times, he would just come along, eat and leave without even having any conversation with me! His father was working somewhere in Northern India. He used to write regularly to Krishna Kumar. This guy used to discuss his dad's letters with me.

Once there was an interesting discussion. His father was anxious to know whether I was "sand dust or gold dust!". I felt quite strange and I asked why his father was anxious. He said since his son was not working for any big firm, his father was not sure if Krishna Kumar was spending his time beneficially. I said to Krishna Kumar, " It depends upon you. It depends upon what you want! I said I would help you. If you are a coconut seedling, I would be sand for you; if you are seeking to make jewelleries, I can be gold dust for you! It is your wish and your liking my friend!'" ( he stayed with me until I knew for sure I was leaving India. Then he got a very handsome job from a large firm in Ambattur). That's life. We get mostly what we seek in any person; it purely depends upon our approach.

Cheers!

 

[Amirtha]

Sowbagyavathy Amirtha, Greetings.

I refer to your message in post #172.

I sincerely hope, all the commotions and excitements are settled down now. For some reason, your identity was mistaken as a male member. There was even a hint of myself writing in your identity. I don't know why though. Anyway, I know you are not my identity, because I am not writing under your name.

In your request about PM, and in the way you sign off, I notice Aussie lingo. Anyway, you got the reply about PM from Sri.Praveen.

My writings are very simple. They sound honest because they are just truth. I am just leading a simple life, like to share my views based on my life experiences. Since my life was very simple, most persons can relate their life to mine. I am just the 'Joe Bloke down the street'.

I hope There can be more conversations and more inputs from you in this forum. Just cheer up and start sharing your views, please.

Cheers!

Shri Raghy

Thank you for soothing reply. I also practice life like you. Sometimes, I am enemy to myself too while trying to be truthful. Anyway I am going to quote your orniginal question.

Shri Raghy said:
I request the learned members to discuss, please.
Does following discourses by various swamijis and very learned persons help us overcome such desires? I am requesting for a detailed discussion, please".

I am not calling myself as learned person. However, I want to discuss/raise my opinion regarding the above question.

Well, we are all different even though we are same species. Shri Raghy you must have heard this term before from Hindu philosophical thinking, “Neti neti” i.e not this not that. So in my honest opinion, you can overcome your desires only through experiences. So following swamijis and very learned persons (is there any such things like that? If you asked the real learned person, probably that person would say, “me? No way”. Because we observe and learn until we die.We have a proverb in tamil ) So nobody knows about yourself except You. Sometimes this so called swamijis might guide you in wrong direction

Yes, we all have desires, but not all the desires are fulfilled or possible to fulfil. So when we know such desires are not possible to fulfil in override fashion, we settle for lesser version. That is a control. Basically we are playing mind games to ourselves through norm and not so norms of our surrounding. ( we get kick/excitement/pleasure only when it is not norm). As I mentioned earlier we observe, learn and become guru to ourselves. When we are guru to ourselves, we are not going to hurt ourselves unless you are mentally unstable.

Kind Regards
Amirtha

 

[guruvayurappan]

May be it about time you get rid of auto pilot mode and go on Mexican way

dear Amirtha !
can you say what is mexican way?
guruvayurappan

 

[guruvayurappan]

dear Amirtha !
you can make PM once you cross 75 posts mark as stipulated (Mr.Praveen has informed the same to all ).since you are new member ,you can not do it now.as Mrs.Raji ram said seniors can make PM to you
guruvayurappan

 

[suraju06]

I can't provide you with a scholarly opinion. In my opinion, 'Anada' is a state. We feel 'ananda' through our mind. So, it is a state of our mind. At this state we are emotionally connected to the willing recepient at the other end. Such connections are after a trust is formed. Sometimes such a trust is formed in a very short span of time due to learned behaviours and due to the approach. Anada is not permanent. It is only short lived. We may have frequent instances of connection though. These are just my opinions, learned from my own life.

Dear Raghy,

I asked the question not looking for any scholarly opinion. I wanted a learned discussion on this subject. But it was not picked up. I am actually searching for an answer to my question for pretty long. As upanishad itself speaks about ananda elaborately I got interested in this. upanishad says Atma is always full of ananda. I am still searching to find an answer.

 

[Amirtha]

dear Amirtha !
can you say what is mexican way?
guruvayurappan

Manuvel... LOL

Regards

 

[Naina_Marbus]

That is very smart of you. my own message is very nicely quoted. I never knew this!

Cheers!

Never knew what?

 

[Raghy]

Never knew what?

Sri. Naina, Greetings.

Nevermind.

Cheers!

 

[Raghy]

Dear Raghy,

I asked the question not looking for any scholarly opinion. I wanted a learned discussion on this subject. But it was not picked up. I am actually searching for an answer to my question for pretty long. As upanishad itself speaks about ananda elaborately I got interested in this. upanishad says Atma is always full of ananda. I am still searching to find an answer.

Sri. Raju, Greetings.

I haven't learned any upanishad. There was a time I believed in Atma. I am trying to share my opinion from that position. The ultimate aim of Atma would be to get to the stage where it is "always full of ananda". But Atma is not full of ananda before that stage. Only since ananda is not full of ananda, it goes through different incarnations to obtain the completeness. Once it is "full of ananda", that Atman stops its reincarnations. We don't hear from that Atman anymore.

Cheers!

 

[Amirtha]

Dear Raghy,

I asked the question not looking for any scholarly opinion. I wanted a learned discussion on this subject. But it was not picked up. I am actually searching for an answer to my question for pretty long. As upanishad itself speaks about ananda elaborately I got interested in this. upanishad says Atma is always full of ananda. I am still searching to find an answer.

Shri Raju

I couldn't resist. The following paragragh is from introduction to Kaivalyopanishad by Swami Chinmayananda.

[FONT=&quot]No blind promises are found anywhere in the Upanishads. Rishies never fanatically insist upon any belief. Every stage they closely observe and analyse the known and deduce the possibilities of unknown. For that they prescribe techniques by which the students can grow themselves into state of unfoldment themselves, wherein, they too can come to experience what upnishad THEORIES insist upon”. By Swami Chinmayananda in his introduction to Kaivalyopanishad.

[/FONT] My opinion here is or my question here is : could Ananda be just a theory?

Kind Regards

 

[suraju06]

Dear Raghy,

To ask questions and to find answers you require only a sharp, open inquiring mind. There is no prerequisite knowledge of Upanishad or Vedas. I keep asking questions to myself and go after answers. In my effort I look into Upanishads,Vedas and treasure troves left by other great minds. I have read your answer fully. Still my question to you stays. What is this Ananda? Can we define it? You can represent positive and negative integers in a straight line with zero as the centre point. If negative integers are misery (துக்கம் in tamil), is Ananda the absence of misery like the positive integers? This ananda is always a fruit of certain actions. So actions are not ananda. Then what else is it?

In his great work திருவாய்மொழி (Thiruvoimozhy) Nammalwar begins his very first verse with the words உயர்வற உயர்நலம் உடையவன் யவனவன்.........Great Acharyas who wrote commentaries on this first line have interpreted this word உயர்வு as absence of ananda. I have often wondered what is exactly meant here. Let us what inputs are given here on this question.

Dear Amirtha,

I am unable to look at Ananda as a mere theory without substance if that is what you mean. The Thaithreeya Upanishad goes to great lengths to speak about the Ananda repeatedly. Upanishads are generally cryptic and to the point. Words are never wasted on a mere hypothesis.

 

[mkrishna100]

How should we overcome our desires ?

As long as you feel that a particular desire needs to be overcome the desires will keep haunting you . Suppressing of the desire will lead to neurosis , involving of the desire will lead to more craving .Until and unless you outgrow the desire , you will be fighting with it in some form or the other .For Eg.when we were kids we used to play with Toys and used to get excited and always keep playing with them and our parents will sometimes hide them so that we are not distracted by it while we study but now even if a huge toy shop was next to our house will we ever have any desire to go in ( except of course to buy toys for our kids or our friends kids ). Extend the same to any other desire .
So unless and until you outgrow any desire , there will always be a problem with that desire .

 

[renuka]

is Ananda the absence of misery like the positive integers? .

Dear sir,

Ananda is our innate nature..so Ananda can not be absence of sorrow.

Sorrow is the perceived "absence" of Ananda.

 

[renuka]

Actually I feel many of us are also confusing duty as desire.

Going to work is a duty.Getting paid for it or earning money is the reaction to the work done.
So that's not a desire either.

Getting married might be a desire for some..but come to think of it getting married is just a biological instinct.

Man is made to reproduce to a certain extent and we confuse it with all sorts of emotions and get entangled in it.

Ok buying a house is a necessity.
Over doing the decoration is a desire!

Buying a car is also a necessity.
Some of us need more than 1 car cos both husband and wife have to drive to work.
Changing cars just for the sake of style and status is a desire.

Buying clothes is also a necessity but over spending for the sake of too much fashion is a desire.

List can go on and on...

So basically I think most of us do not really have much desires..we are just a confused lot! that's all.

 

[guruvayurappan]

dear renukaji !
once we want something it become need .mobile phone was once a fancy and many thought ,they need no mobile phone and need land line only .But the scenario is every body is in need of cellur phone .once a week letter correspondence was olden days and every hour/min information is the order of the present day.this is having more evil than good (example rumor through sms about north east )
guruvayurappan

 

[renuka]

dear renukaji !
once we want something it become need .mobile phone was once a fancy and many thought ,they need no mobile phone and need land line only .But the scenario is every body is in need of cellur phone .once a week letter correspondence was olden days and every hour/min information is the order of the present day.this is having more evil than good (example rumor through sms about north east )
guruvayurappan

Not really..when I got a mobile phone I disconnected my land line..cos I do not need it anymore at home.

 

[guruvayurappan]

dear raju !
when we say anandam, we are remembering the past sorrow and anandam is measured in comparison to amount of sorrow underwent .
but in case of uyarvu, they go on adding their uyarvu(good deeds/path of reaching HIM)and they are not thinking of anything other than GOD
guruvayurappan

 

[C RAVI]

This land of survival is existing only because of some or the other sorts of desires/needs/fulfillment, all revolving around some purpose.


Any amount of discussions on how to controll desires not going to get the things clear, black and white.


The only way to get rid of desires of even the slightest things and the needs, one has to go to jungles and just be wandering here and there, eating anything one can get. Because even meditating on Spureme Being and be in Tapasya would amount to fulfilling one's desire.

Yes!! That's also a desire. BUT this desire of doing tapasya in isolated places like jungles and hills, with bakthi towards the supreme being would for sure unfold many wisdom and would help a soul to reach near to experiencing the BLISS. At this juncture, there would not be anything greater than the pleasure of realizing the bliss and one can just get dissolved in it.

This is the only desire that is so pure and affective that a person would neither feel the absense of pleasure nor the absence of sorrow.

 

[sangom]

Respectable members, Greetings.

We all have desires. Some of us try to fulfil our desires by follow-up actions. I read many philosophical teachings and discourses preach us to overcome these desires. Most often than not, mostly these preaching recommend controling ourselves. In other words, deny such desires. I am getting into morality and the immorality of such desires, since I think this morality issue itself is subjective, with very fluid boundaries.

I personally believe the good way to overcome a desire is by indulging in the same desire on a overdrive fashion, enjoy as much as possible and be done with it. I am not saying I am right.

I request the learned members to discuss, please. The question is - How can we effectively overcome our desires? Does the method of cotrolling ourselves and denying such pleasures help us overcome such desires? Does focusing our mind on a different subject, a subject we think is more valuable than the desire in question help us overcome the desires? Does following discourses by various swamijis and very learned persons help us overcome such desires? I am requesting for a detailed discussion, please. ( I may not take part much in this discussion. I don't think I have adequate knowledge or self-control to discuss this subject).

Cheers!

Dear Raghy,

I chanced upon this thread of yours only now. A very important and useful point you have touched upon. My views - based on my own experiences and thoughts supported by the various books which I have read and have had an impact - are as under:

Firstly desire (which has sanskrit equivalents like icchā, tṛṣṇā, kāma, cikīrṣā, ruci, spṛhā, etc., denoting various kinds of desires and their intensities) by itself is not bad and so need not be overcome as a thumb rule. Even the vedas contain several instances of prayers for prosperity, progeny, grandchildren, long life and so on. Accepting the vedas as our guide, I feel there is no harm in a person having desire/s for a good, healthy and long life, a happy married life with the boon of healthy, intelligent children and grandchildren and increased prosperity, in one's life.

The taboo comes in only when someone desires something which goes against the accepted social code of his/her time, or, the desire is intrinsically harmful for the person concerned and/or to the society. Let me take the instance of corruption. It is nothing but pleasing someone who is in a position - has the capacity - to bestow some advantage to the bribe-giver. May be it is something like getting a sanction within the prescribed time. If so, there is essentially nothing "adhārmik" in it, imho. (I understand that in Gujarat today, the bribes at various levels is added to the tender amount/project cost and all Government functionaries get their due shares and this is the reason for the quick implementation of projects there.)

In regard to undesirable desires (pun, if any, is not intentional), we have to consciously work for rooting such things from our 'being' (mind, body and intellect). For us humans the time taken to attain maturity and ability to face life singly, is comparatively large (about 18 years minimum) and many are lucky to have the advice, guidance, control of parents and/or guardians/teachers to learn the many dos and don'ts of life. (Of course the world seems to be changing fast in regard to many things and we may find rules going topsy-turvy also. Still, one has to live by the rules and laws prescribed by the society in which one lives. I will like to draw your kind attention to one old post by Shri saidevo here.)

I personally consider Jesus Christ's dictum "http://www.tamilbrahmins.com/general-discussions/6991-sanatana-dharma-when-did-start-2.html#post92432"—Luke 6:31, as the best guide for all of us and we should strive to always adhere to this.

There is no need to be concerned about "how to overcome desires?". But many (or some, in the case of a few) desires may not be realized in our lives, despite our best and even repeated attempts. This imo is caused by our Karma and the only precaution to take is not to let the unfulfilled desire/s to become craze, passion or rage - to be achieved at any cost. A time comes in life when we are able to accept with all humility our failures and inabilities.