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How should we overcome our desires?

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Respectable members, Greetings.

We all have desires. Some of us try to fulfil our desires by follow-up actions. I read many philosophical teachings and discourses preach us to overcome these desires. Most often than not, mostly these preaching recommend controling ourselves. In other words, deny such desires. I am getting into morality and the immorality of such desires, since I think this morality issue itself is subjective, with very fluid boundaries.

I personally believe the good way to overcome a desire is by indulging in the same desire on a overdrive fashion, enjoy as much as possible and be done with it. I am not saying I am right.

I request the learned members to discuss, please. The question is - How can we effectively overcome our desires? Does the method of cotrolling ourselves and denying such pleasures help us overcome such desires? Does focusing our mind on a different subject, a subject we think is more valuable than the desire in question help us overcome the desires? Does following discourses by various swamijis and very learned persons help us overcome such desires? I am requesting for a detailed discussion, please. ( I may not take part much in this discussion. I don't think I have adequate knowledge or self-control to discuss this subject).

Cheers!
 
Dear Raghy,

You know I feel we humans complicate things.

Lord Krishna made things real simple..He said

Karmanye Vadhikaraste, Ma phaleshu kada cana,
Ma Karma Phala Hetur Bhurmatey Sangostva Akarmani

Karmanye Vadhikaraste, Ma phaleshu kada cana - You have the right to perform your actions,but you are not entitled to the fruits of the actions.

Ma Karma Phala Hetur Bhurmatey Sangostva Akarmani – Do not let the fruit be the purpose of your actions, and therefore you won’t be attached to not doing your duty.

The problem is none of us WANT to follow it.
I have used the word WANT here cos WANT is a desire that comes with an option.

I did not want to use to word none of us are ABLE to follow it cos that would make it sound as if Lord Krishna's words are IMPOSSIBLE to follow.

I get what you mean..one does NOT have to deny any activity for himself.
Second half of stanza explains well..
Ma Karma Phala Hetur Bhurmatey Sangostva Akarmani – Do not let the fruit be the purpose of your actions, and therefore you won’t be attached to not doing your duty.

Lord Krishna was not telling us to be inactive.

But just a word of caution here..this does not give us a licence to indulge in activities that are harmful to other and ourselves and then say "we are not attached to the fruits of it"
That is being irresponsible and inconsiderate.

Sometimes some of us have desire for somethings that we can't live without and it gives us withdrawals just with the thought of not having it.

This is an ADDICTION.

God allows us to get ourselves treated for any condition of the body or mind.
So if any one of us find we are addicted to something..get yourself treated and then you will see life in a better perspective.

Doors are never closed in the Kingdom of God but it's just us that fail to knock.
 
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Sowbagyavathy Renuks, Greetings.

Thank you for your nice thoughts. I agree with most of them.

I want to follow that. I already follow that in some areas; but not all of them yet.

But, I do think we are entitiled for the fruits of our actions. Pandavas action was living in exile for 13 years as required of them after losing the 'friendly gambling game'; they were entitled for getting the kingdom back as per the initial condition. Who went as the ambassador to establish their entitlement? Krishna. So, Krishna can't say we are not entitiled for the fruits of our action. Yes, he may very well say we should not be attached to such fruits of our actions. Agreed.

Most of my desires involve just myself as a person. For example, from my childhood I wanted to visit Niagara Falls. I fulfilled that in style when I visited that falls in winter, December at night in freezing cold ( negative 15 degrees) and everything around the falls frozen. So, I don't have to attached with most of my desires.

But many of my desires involve other persons. I can't just shut up shop and say " well, I have no more attachment. i love you, but I am not attached!' I don't think I would be too popular after that.

Some of the desires can't be dismissed as addictions either.

Thanks for your input in this subject. I shall wait for more from other learned members and more from you too.

Cheers!
 
dear raghy !
for your question
I personally believe the good way to overcome a desire is by indulging in the same desire on a overdrive fashion, enjoy as much as possible and be done with it. I am not saying I am right.
smt .renuka ji answer
Lord Krishna was not telling us to be inactive.

But just a word of caution here..this does not give us a licence to indulge in activities that are harmful to other and ourselves and then say "we are not attached to the fruits of it"
That is being irresponsible and inconsiderate
.

is very effective
her usage of WANT and ABLE words are also explains many things
by our act we should not get dissolved & disappear
guruvayurappan



 
dear raghy !
you said in one of your post that we are carrying anything after our death and enjoy the life today itself .like wise your thought is driving you like many of us what is the use attaining those said nobles things (as per your post fluid foundtries). let us get answer for that also and i also will be waiting for that clarification
 
Here is a way shown by saint Thiruvalluvar :

பற்றுக பற்றற்றான் பற்றினை அப்பற்றைப்
பற்றுக பற்று விடற்கு
 
This subject is dealt with in Bhagavad-Gita, Chapter II. The modern psychologists quote
these slokas often to describe the relationship between desire and mind.

dhyaayato vishayaan pumsah, sangas teshoopajaayate
sangaat sanjayate kaamah, kaamaat krodho 'bhijaayate ||2- 62 ||

One develops attachment to sense objects by thinking about sense objects. Desire for sense objects
comes from attachment to sense objects, and anger comes from unfulfilled desires. (62)


krodhaad bhavati sammohah, sammohaat smriti-vibhramah
smriti-bhramshaad buddhi-naasho, buddhi-naashaat pranashyati
||2- 63 ||

Delusion arises from anger. The mind is bewildered by delusion. Reasoning is destroyed when the mind
is bewildered. One falls down (from the right path) when reasoning is destroyed. (63)


"Thinking constantly on the objects of senses, a man develops
attachment for them; from the attachment springs desire, and from desire
(obstruction in fulfillment) ensues anger. From anger arises delusion
(foolishness); from delusion, confusion of memory; which results in loss of
reasoning/discrimination (Viveka), and with loss of reasoning/discrimination, he
goes to complete ruin."

raga-dvesa-vimuktais tu, visayan indriyais caran
atma-vasyair vidheyatma raga-dvesa-vimuktais tu
||2- 64 ||

A disciplined person, enjoying sense objects with senses that are under control and free from
likes and dislikes, attains tranquility. (64)

prasade sarva-duhkhanam, hanir asyopajayate
prasanna-cetaso hy asu, buddhih paryavatisthate
|| 2-65 ||

All sorrows are destroyed upon attainment of tranquility. The intellect of such a tranquil
person soon becomes completely steady. (65)


"But a self-controlled Yogi (karma yogi) in practice or a spiritual aspirant,
while using objects with the senses, which are controlled and freed from
attraction and aversion (Raga-Dwesha), he attains the tranquility (purity) of
mind. With the attainment of such tranquility (purity), all his sorrows come to
an end; and the intellect of such a person of tranquil (pure) mind, very soon
without any doubts becomes, firmly established in Paramatma (God)".

Sri Krishna concludes this Chapter with the following words:

One attains peace in whose mind all desires enter without creating any disturbance,
as river waters enter the full ocean without creating a disturbance. One who desires
material objects is never peaceful. (2.70)
One who abandons all desires and becomes free from longing and the feeling of 'I' and
'my' attains peace. (2.71)




Regards,
Brahmanyan,
Bangalore.
 
Sri. Brahmanyan Sir, Greetings.

I refer to post #7. Thank you very much for your contribution. It is very nice and very detailed.

Cheers!
 
Here is a way shown by saint Thiruvalluvar :

பற்றுக பற்றற்றான் பற்றினை அப்பற்றைப்
பற்றுக பற்று விடற்கு

Sri. ranganathan, Greetings.

Thank you. That kural is good if I perform 'Saranagathy' and live accordingly. That is one method. But unfortunately, it is beyond me for the time being. Thank you for your contribution.

Cheers!
 
Regarding desires, first of all desires are essential to lead life in this world. What we desire, what is desirable, how much of that - all these things are very subjective and varies from person to person.

Regarding denial or control of desires, it depends upon what we desire and its effects on us or others. Yes, we need money and desire for that, but the question is quantity and ways and means of achieving. Here we have to apply the "control" brakes at some point of time. Regarding other desires like smoking, drinking, illicit relationships - these desires have to be denied at the first instance.

Also, the stage of life you are in, plays an important in role in these desires. At an advanced age, after fullfilling the family responsibilities, it is natural for desires to be subsided.

Regarding these non-attachment, perform action without expecting fruits, etc - I am sure about these concepts.
 
dear raghy !
for your question
I personally believe the good way to overcome a desire is by indulging in the same desire on a overdrive fashion, enjoy as much as possible and be done with it. I am not saying I am right.
smt .renuka ji answer
Lord Krishna was not telling us to be inactive.

But just a word of caution here..this does not give us a licence to indulge in activities that are harmful to other and ourselves and then say "we are not attached to the fruits of it"
That is being irresponsible and inconsiderate
.

is very effective
her usage of WANT and ABLE words are also explains many things
by our act we should not get dissolved & disappear
guruvayurappan




Sri. Guruvayurappan, Greetings.

Our actions will never dissolve or disappear. what we did at the age of 6 and at the age of 60, everything will follow us like a comet tail. Nothing goes away. the more matter is contained in the comet, the longer is the tail; the smaller and the lesser the matter contained in the comet, smaller the tail. Applying the same in our lives, the more desires we went through, the more desires we indulged, the longer is the tail we get. That tail is also knows as 'karma' by many learned persons. The lesser the desires we had to fulfil, the smaller is the tail we get.

My idea is, to burn all the matter in this life time and eventually get rid of that tail too ( no desire to burn, no tail to follow).

Cheers!
 
dear raghy !
what i want convey to is if we indulge in bad habits (identified by ourselves &not following others concept ),we loose our real one and will get get more tails as per your saying and will not get burned .imagine a fig with many tails .if only one comet and its tail is getting thickened is different and many addtions will change the original appearence.tha is why it is said for getting rid of your pavam &punniyam we have to go rebirths
guruvayurappan
 
Sri. Brahmanyan Sir, Greetings.

I refer to post #7. Thank you very much for your contribution. It is very nice and very detailed.

Cheers!

Dear Sri "Raghy",

I have only quoted Lord's words from Bhagvad Gita. For me, Gita has answers for all the doubts and tribulations a lay man faces in life. Every time I read the slokas with the help of commentaries of great Acharyas the meaning unfold in depth. Santh Dnyaneshwar through his discourses on Bhagvad Gita known as of Bhavartha Deepika or Dnyaneshwari in Marathi, and opened up the divine knowledge in the common man's language and was made available to everyone for the first time.

Here is the purport of the same Slokas from Dnyaneshwari which makes easy to understand for every one:

. .......He who outwardly gives up sense-objects but keeps on thinking about them must be considered as being entangled only in the materialistic world. (2:318). A slightest trace of desires remaining in the mind destroys discretion. (2:320). Mere memory of these sense-pleasures creates desire for them in the mind of even a detached person. Passions then arise in the mind and where there is passion there is also anger. Anger leads to thoughtlessness. Thoughtlessness leads to loss of memory and then the intellect is engulfed by the darkness of ignorance. The intellect then suffers and loses direction. Thus, the loss of memory leads to confused intellect and this in turn destroys all knowledge. In this way, even occasional memory of the sense-pleasures can lead to such downfall. Therefore, when these sense-pleasures are totally removed from the mind, anger and hate are automatically destroyed. When anger and hate are destroyed then even if the organs become engaged in the sense-pleasures they do no harm. (2:321-332). Such a person is detached towards sense-objects, free of desire and anger and remains engrossed in the bliss of the Self. (2:334). He who thus remains absorbed in the Self may be considered without doubt to have a stable intellect (Sthitapradnya).
Be Cheerful: Worldly sorrows do not enter a cheerful mind. (2:338). How can a person feel unhappy when his heart is cheerful? The mind of such a person remains naturally focused on God. Like a flame in windless air, that person with stable intellect achieves the yogic state and becomes united with Brahman. (2:339-341).
......
This is a serious subject, I am glad this thread is activated in the Forum.
Warm Regards,
Brahanyan,
Bangalore,
 
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How should we overcome our desires ?

dear brahmanyan sir !
thanks for giving the wonderful answer derived from gita .i also thanks mr.Raghy since these answer came cos of his eagerness to know the way to overcome our desire
guruvayurappan
 
Desire is the mother of all miseries. If it is not deep diversion can help. If deeper go and consult your enemy. If deepest and unquenchable better embrace the desire and merge into it without thinking of the consequences. What becomes of you may be good. Sermons, discourses, etc. may be appealing instantly, but the devil might rise more powerful particularly they are accompanied by the exploits of unholy Swamijis. You are both the master and the slave of your mind. Many would like to be masters only otherwise, but become slave of their desires. It is your exclusive fight and the world would not be interested to know who won. But the first line will always be the dictum and it is your privilege to defy it. All the best.
 
Sir,

It is like பிரசவ வைராக்கியம் அல்லது மயான வைராக்கியம்.

We get a short-lived determination to stay away or leave the desires at these
two places.

Acharyaal says as we grow old our physical capacity declines/decays but the
mind is after all the worldly things.

We see people growing older day by day, getting diseases, slowly debilitating
and finally passing into eternity. His beloved wife, mother and other close
relatives ( so called ) declare him பிணம். பாடியை எப்போ எடுக்கப்போறா ?

We see this daily in all the houses. We think - I will die one day. Relatives will
declare me as a ' body' or ' corpse '. All this is ephemeral. We must realise
the truth and become desireless. Then we forget all about this after sometime.

Saint Pattinathar says -காலன் வரும் முன்னே குற்றாலத்தனையே கறு.
 
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I think the best way to overcome desire is not to think too much of anything.
Just let life be in Auto Pilot mode and take one day at a time.

When we take one day at a time..there is no room for desires.

If we think too much about trying to overcome desires that thought itself becomes a desire!

So don't worry be happy and what ever will be will be!!
 
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May be for a start those who want to keep a track of their desires should note down their daily activities.

For me it is so routine that I can actually type it with my eyes closed.

Todays activity;

1)Woke up in morning
2)Cooked my lunch
3)Today is not my exercise day..so no exercise today.
4)Said my prayers as I drove to work.
5)At work..seeing patients.
6)Studying for next months exam
7)Typing in forum
8)Will go home at 8.30pm
9)Watch TV for a while
10)Sleep

Important: To remind husband to pick up my cheque books from Bank and to remind my father to pick up my Visa from Indian Embassy.

Desire for the day..Nothing.


So Raghy..why don't you do this and write down your day to day plan and see where any desire come up.

I sort of plan my day this way so that I do not miss out anything urgent.
 
How to Misuse Your Power of Thought


How to Misuse Your Power of Thought

by: Abbot George Burke (Swami Nirmalananda Giri) • January 30, 2008

angry-tiger.jpg
“Thinking about sense-objects will attach you to sense-objects; grow attached, and you become addicted; thwart your addiction, it turns to anger; be angry, and you confuse your mind; confuse your mind, you forget the lesson of experience; forget experience, you lose discrimination; lose discrimination, and you miss life’s only purpose.”
–Bhagavad Gita 2:62, 63

It is true that the journey of a thousand miles begins with the first step. In these two verses Krishna has described the entire journey, beginning with thought and ending in total loss. Each step should be considered well.

Thinking

Thought is power–magnetic power, particularly. That is, thought can draw or repel whatever is thought about, depending upon the polarity of the individual mind. Many times we see that people bring to themselves the things they continually think about, but we also see that thinking about something can repel it from the person.

For example, the Franciscan Order is almost obsessed with the idea of poverty, yet it is one of the wealthiest institutions in the world. Thinking about poverty brought them wealth! This is not said in jest. I have seen people draw to themselves the things they detested, and seen others drive out of their lives the things they yearned for. As already pointed out, it is a matter of the polarity of the thought force, of magnetic energy.

As a rule, though, thought brings to us what we think about. Even if we begin by disliking or opposing the object of thought, in time we become attached to it, either by coming to like it (whether or not we admit the liking) or becoming unable to dispel it from our minds. We see this in the lives of many crusaders. They become what they oppose. In fact, they often oppose something to cover up their secret attraction to it.

It has long been known that the opposite of love is not hate, but indifference. Krishna is aware of this, and is counseling Arjuna to simply ignore that which he does not wish to become involved with. That is why in meditation we ignore any distractions and just keep relaxed in the awareness of the process of meditation–and nothing else. If we do this, in time the distractions will dissolve, and in the meantime, being ignored, they will not be distractions, practically speaking.
So if we will not obsess on a subject, it will not touch or capture us. This is a major point of spiritual life.

Attachment

“Thinking about sense-objects will attach you to sense-objects.” The word translated “attach” is sangas, which means attachment. However, sangas has both an internal and an external meaning–both of which apply in this instance.

Attachment means having an affinity for something, or having some feeling of desire to be aware of it or have it present. It has a definite emotional connotation. It also means to feel some kind of kinship with an object, or to feel a need for it–even a dependency.

Attachment also means to be linked to something, to become externally associated with it. This has already been discussed as a consequence of thinking continually of an object.

Obviously there is a positive side to this. If we think of that which is beneficial and elevating we will better ourselves. Sri Ramakrishna once met a young man who was psychically very sensitive, and who was being employed as a medium by some spiritualists in Calcutta. He spoke to him a truth that we should never forget or neglect to embody in our lives: “My son, if you think about ghosts you will become a ghost. If you think about God, you will become a god. Which do you prefer?”

Addiction

“Grow attached, and you become addicted.”

The word used here is kamas, which means intense craving for something. The implication is that the nature of objects is one of escalating absorption. We cannot stop at simple attachment. If we permit attachment, it will in time grow into something much worse: controlling addiction. This is the path to loss of freedom, to enslavement.

Anger

“Thwart your addiction, it turns to anger.”

We not only lose our freedom through addiction to objects, we also lose our rational faculty. For when our addictions are thwarted we respond with the ultimate irrationality: anger. Krodha means not just simple irritation but frenzied anger or fury which completely annihilates our good sense and reason.

Confusion

“Be angry, and you confuse your mind.”

Sammohas means confusion, not in the sense of simple disorientation, but in the sense of breakdown of mental coherence arising from delusion. It is a form of moral insanity

Forgetfulness

“Confuse your mind, you forget the lesson of experience.”

The Sanskrit smritivibhramah literally means to wander away from what is known, from what has been learned through experience. For it is what we know from our own experience, inner and outer, that is fundamental to our evolution. That alone is living wisdom, everything else is merely theory, however true it may be objectively.

The whole purpose of the chain of births we have undergone is our gaining of practical knowledge, knowledge that is fully ours because it has arisen from our own experience and our insight into that experience. Just as no one can eat for us, so no one, however evolved they may be, can gain knowledge for us, or even impart it to us. Until we know something for ourselves it is nothing more than speculation or theory.

Indiscrimination

“Forget experience, you lose discrimination.”

The Sanskrit text literally says that if experience-knowledge is forgotten, then intelligence (buddhi) itself is destroyed. This is terrible, for expanding intelligence is the fundamental characteristic of evolution. That is why Krishna speaks so often of Buddhi Yoga as the path to perfection.

Loss of life

“Lose discrimination, and you miss life’s only purpose.”

Again, the literal Sanskrit is even more acute, stating that when buddhi is destroyed,we ourselves are destroyed. This is no exaggeration, as the foregoing sections demonstrate.
The purpose of our entry into relativity was the development of higher intelligence so we might be fitted to participate in the infinite consciousness of God. If we impair and erode that intelligence we frustrate the very purpose of our (relative) existence.

On the other hand, if we comprehend Krishna’s words in this matter, we can see that the conscious deepening of our buddhi is the path to liberation. But most of all we can learn how to never take even the first step on the path to personal destruction. By refusing to allow our minds to mull over that which is delusive, we protect ourselves from future entanglement in the nets of delusion. If we are already somewhere along the path to destruction we can also use this list to see how to reverse the process. For the message of the Gita is always and at all times the message of hope and betterment.

 
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Excellent postings and very deep discussions. My congrats to all. To get back to the point raised by Mr. Raghy, in the first post," enjoy and be done with it sothat you can get on to more serious business". This was the method advocated by Osho and even the currently controversial Nityananda. With Kama, Kroda, Loba, Moha, Mada and Matsarya in mind, one cannot proceed to desirelessness. That is why, Sravanam, Mananam and Nidhidyasanam, are advocated as step by step proceedures to follow. It is hard way, easy to talk but very difficult to follow. Such discussions can or, at least may,throw enlightenment at some stage.
Rgards,
Ramanathan.
 
When Arjuna asks Lord Krishna the reasons for our ills, Krishna replies - it is
due to Kama and Krodha.

How to conquer the desire ? asks Arjuna.

By vairagya and abhyasa - replies the Lord.

There is no short cut. Because we are filled with purvajanma vasanas. These
must be erased.
 
May be for a start those who want to keep a track of their desires should note down their daily activities.

For me it is so routine that I can actually type it with my eyes closed.

Todays activity;

1)Woke up in morning
2)Cooked my lunch
3)Today is not my exercise day..so no exercise today.
4)Said my prayers as I drove to work.
5)At work..seeing patients.
6)Studying for next months exam
7)Typing in forum
8)Will go home at 8.30pm
9)Watch TV for a while
10)Sleep

Important: To remind husband to pick up my cheque books from Bank and to remind my father to pick up my Visa from Indian Embassy.

Desire for the day..Nothing.


So Raghy..why don't you do this and write down your day to day plan and see where any desire come up.

I sort of plan my day this way so that I do not miss out anything urgent.

Sowbagyavathy Renuka, Greetings.

Thanks for your kind and caring words. I immensely appreciate your gesture of climbing down few steps, quite a few steps I should say, to meet me at my level. not too many persons have done that for me in my life.
Your kindness touches my heart.

Usually most if not all of my desires have come true. most of the times, my desires are so set, it would be kind of set way too high. I never fight my desires; but eventually I always seem to tame those desires. Of ten times I don't even get any personal gain from such desires. I shall address about this a bit later in detail. Today is my day off; I am going to cook something very nice right now. I will getback after that.

My desires present challenges in my life; I live on those challenges. The day I have no desire would be the day I am dead. While I thank you for you kindness, I have to say I can not live without desires. Later in detail.

Cheers!
 
. The day I have no desire would be the day I am dead.

Cheers!

Nope! not true.
Upon death of the physical body..desires live on and form the foundation for the next physical body.
Desires only die the day the Mind is in equal state (SamaDhi)
 
Nope! not true.
Upon death of the physical body..desires live on and form the foundation for the next physical body.
Desires only die the day the Mind is in equal state (SamaDhi)

Mr.Raghy is almost right. Once you have no desire you attain liberation,
not death.

Renukaji - your answer needs to be modified . When the mind does not exist
and not when the mind is in equal state.
 
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