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Do 'pithrus' really curse?

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.......... In the horoscope if the maandhi or gulikan have placed in 2nd or 4th, or 7th or 8th or 12 from lagnam it is called as preadha dosham. ..........
Dear Sri. Gopalan Sir,

This means that there is 41.67% chance that a person will have preadha dhOsham!

May be, that is the reason why the horoscopes cast by Tamil astrologers do not have mAndhi at all.

Less fear, probably!
 


Dear Sangom Sir,

I am a bit scared after reading your detailed post! I used to think that people who curses their own

descendants are not fit to be prayed as equivalent to God! But, even in many purANa stories, curses

have come true. The best option is to have firm belief in the Almighty and pray HIM / HER to save us

from such sApams. :pray2:

per gopalan's note, in reality, all of us are doomed :) dear raji, get ram to chant vedas daily, and ask gopalan, how to do prayaschitham for all the years so far, when we have failed to do so...aggregated punishment of a sort awaits us..wow!
 
per gopalan's note, in reality, all of us are doomed :) dear raji, get ram to chant vedas daily, and ask gopalan, how to do prayaschitham for all the years so far, when we have failed to do so...aggregated punishment of a sort awaits us..wow!


kunjuppu Sir

I am also one of the culprit; as most of the time i spend my life here in US, not doing Srardham, Tharpan etc..

How to save myself !!!
 
What about in families where there are only girls and no sons? Can women do tarpanam and shraddham? Then what?
 
........... Why did you start this OP?
Now you see.. ELLAR VAITHULEYUM PULI KARAKIRATHU.
Dear P J Sir,

If I buy a new saree, I start noticing the same color all around me when I go out! Similarly, now that the

parihArams costing about one lakh was done by my close friend, I hear that most of my friends were advised

to do parihArams costing in thousands. Especially the parents who go to consult horoscope match. The 'pithru

sApam' (sorry for the earlier spelling - the effect of spoken Tamil) is the word I hear often and get scared.

Hence this thread. :)
 

We often hear people saying 'piRandha nEramE sariyillai'! May be it is true that the time of birth plays a

great role in one's life!! Shell tell you why I think of this. My cousin brother married one of the twin sisters

(24 year old) when he was 26. The other twin born just minutes after her, got
married after nearly 10 years

and got her divorce too within two years. Is it because the 'lagnam' is the horoscope changed?
The position

of all other grahams should be the same, unless the moon shifted to the next star within those few minutes!

 
Please read:

#25

I am a bit scared after reading your detailed post! I used to think that people who curses their own descendants are not fit to be prayed as equivalent to God! But, even in many purANa stories, curses have come true. The best option is to have firm belief in the Almighty and pray HIM / HER to save us from such sApams

#27

per gopalan's note, in reality, all of us are doomed :) dear raji, get ram to chant vedas daily, and ask gopalan, how to do prayaschitham for all the years so far, when we have failed to do so...aggregated punishment of a sort awaits us..wow!

#28&29

I am also one of the culprit; as most of the time i spend my life here in US, not doing Srardham, Tharpan etc..
How to save myself !!!
Why did you start this OP?Now you see.. ELLAR VAITHULEYUM PULI KARAKIRATHU.

and finally #20
May be people adversely affected by pitrusaapams can convert themselves into vaishnavites!
Makes interesting reading.
Cheers.


 
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The day most people stop believing in this bull**it , the Purohits and Astrologers would find it tough. This belief has been created basically for providing a source of income for Purohits and Astrologers.

Many of our beliefs have been created and emphasized for providing a source of income for the Professional Astrologers and Purohits.

It is not easy to counter this belief as the people whose livelihood depends on this spend time and money propagating such beliefs.

Some one was talking about Fear. Yes. That is the idea. Create fear of the unknown so that your reasoning power leaves you. An entire Purana has been written to create fear of the Unknown.
 
No God,No mother, No father will curse their child on any occasion. But the fear of curse by pithru is because of the enhancing the childrens' responsibilities on taking care of parents. If they are not caring the parents when they alive, what is the use of doing karmas for them after their death?
 

We often hear people saying 'piRandha nEramE sariyillai'! May be it is true that the time of birth plays a

great role in one's life!! Shell tell you why I think of this. My cousin brother married one of the twin sisters

(24 year old) when he was 26. The other twin born just minutes after her, got
married after nearly 10 years

and got her divorce too within two years. Is it because the 'lagnam' is the horoscope changed?
The position

of all other grahams should be the same, unless the moon shifted to the next star within those few minutes!


This post contains so many self contradictions. If lagna changes the positions of the grahams cannot be the same. For eg. Sani in 5th house moves into the 4th house when lagna changes.

Moon changing to next star and causing unusual changes is also a myth. Change of moon to the next charaNam or padham within the same rAsi does not change the horoscope, except when moon transverses to the next house.

All said and done there are 12 rAsis and 24 hours in a day, so roughly each lagna or rAsi would be of two hours duration and anyone born in a 'sandhi' or junction of two lagnas would be exhibiting some of the traits of both the lagnAs of rAsis.
 
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I think the fear of punishment only keeps a person on the right track.
Why do we scare children when they

do something wrong that 'sAmi kaNNaik kuththidum'?
The clandestine evil acts committed by we humans

are NOT punished by law! So to create fear, the 'fear of unknown' came into existence, imho. People are

threatened that they will be punished in hell (Garuda purANam is very scary to read and so was the movie

'anniyan' to watch), only to create a fear in them when they do wrong deeds. Of course, those who do NOT

believe in heaven or hell just go about doing anything they like! There are many examples we see around us!

The only problem is that this fear is used to mint money from the believers!
 

Dear Narayanan Sir,

By 'the grahAs will be in the same position' I meant the 'rAsi kattams' in the horoscope. If the lagnam changes

naturally the corresponding positions related to the lagnam will also change. I am aware of that, Sir!

Only during the time when the graham goes to the next rAsi, its position will change. It is also possible to

occur within minutes. My doubt is whether the change of horoscope made the other twin's life miserable!
 
If lagna changes the positions of the grahams cannot be the same. For eg. Sani in 5th house moves into the 6th house when lagna changes. ...
Dear Sir,

If the lagnam changes for the second born twin - for example - will not Sani in the 5th house

for the first born of the twins, move to 4th for the second born, related to the lagnam? :confused:
 
No astrologer or vaidheekan can make a fool of you and make money if you believe in the superiority of God Almighty. It is worth quoting these lines here:

1. Na dharma nishtOsmi na ca AtmavEdi
Na bhaktimAn twachcharaNAravindE
akinchanO ananyagathissaranya
twat pAdamoolam saranam prapatyE. (Alavandhar in Stotra Ratnam)

(I have no inclination to follow dharma nishtai, nor am I one who has known the Atma fully, I am not a bhaktimAn either. I know only to surrender to you with the sincere hope that you will save me.)

2.nAsthA dharmE na vasunichayE naiva kAmOpabhOgE
yadhyadhbhavyam bhavathu bhagavan pUrvakarmAnurUpam
ethath prArthyam mama bahumatham janma janmAntharEpi
thvathpAdhAmbOruha yugagathA nischalA bhaktirasthu. (Mukuntha Mala by KulasEkara AzhwAr.)

(Oh God! I am not interested in dharma, dumps of wealth,the pleasures of the indriyas etc. Whatever falls to my lot may be as per my accumulated karma. My only request is that my unassailable bhakti towards to you should always remain with me in all janmas.)

And this is going one step further:

3.nAham vandE thava charaNayOr dwandwa madhdwanthva hEtO
kumbIbhagam gurumapiharE nArakam nApanEthum
ramyA rAmA mrithu thanu lathA nanthanE nApiranthum
bhAvE bhAvE hridayabhavanE bhAvayEyam bhavantham. (Mukuntha Mala)

(Oh Hari! I pray to you not for release/moksha/mukthi. Nor do I pray to you for escaping from the horrible KumbhIpakam hell. Nor for the pleasures of beautiful damsels in the gardens of DevalOka. I pray to you to let me keep you in my heart in every birth that I may take.)
 
Hallo ! dear friends!

I agree that belief in pitru sApam/pitru dosham is as much a matter of personal belief as the one about a god or Almighty (post # 25) who can save one from such pitru sApam/pitru dosham. The three instances which I cited in my post # 20 may/might very well have been cases of psychological illnesses as observed by Shri Raghy in his post #21, but each case was diagnosed as due to pitru sApam/pitru dosham by well-rated astrologers of those times. The only difference was that none of them tried to make financial gains out of it.

I have yet another case of a person who is about my age and who was my classmate during my primary school days; he is also a close relative of mine through my mother's side. This man was a normal, healthy (rather very robustly built, I will say) person till his youth but was not good in studies and so he started doing many odd jobs in my mother's native village for a living. Suddenly he turned insane but not violent; his requirements were a constant supply of pAn (வெத்திலை பாக்கு - with or without tobacco) for chewing almost all the time and a constant supply of note books and writing medium (pencil or pen) so that he would go on scribbling an infinite helical spring sort of writing. His parents had died and the burden fell on the shoulders of his younger brother, who has been taking care of this brother as also an elder sister (who also turned abnormal after retiring from Kerala Government service as a music teacher) till today. The elder brother has the habit of running away from home if his pAn or food is not supplied in time!!

Repeated ayurvedic treatment at Kottakkal has changed the writing streak and has also stopped the betel-chewing spree but now all emphasis has changed to food, its timing and quantity!

Astrologers have blamed pitru dosham / pitru sApam in both these cases but the younger brother is too poor to spend any big sums in this direction.

Whether we call such problems as due to pitru dosham/pitru sApam or by any other name, it is a fact that apparently normal people get affected by such horrible condition/s suddenly at some point of their lives. Also, there is the vedic prayer to pitrus not to harm the rishi who wrote the sooktam.

Once when I discussed this with a Maharashtrian Brahmin friend who was well-versed in our scriptures, and also knew astrology well, he told me that our parents, grandparents, great grandparents etc., are such only during their earthly life. Once they die and their souls depart from the body, each soul takes the shape and qualities suitable to it as per its accumulated Karmas. It is thus possible that some of those souls may fall down into the nether worlds like pAtALa etc., and take even the qualities of பிரஹ்மஹத்தி, பிரம்மரக்ஷஸ்,(since they were brahmins in their last birth or at least professed themselves to be so) பிசாசு, வேதாளம், பைரவம், etc. Hence our fond notion that our pitrus cannot curse or harm us is just that - a fond notion, and not the truth.

According to that friend, such pitru dosham/ pitru sApam will affect only those who have accumulated enough பாபகர்மம் in their previous births (sanchitha karmas) and not others till they also increase their பாபகர்மம் to the required level. And there is no parihaaram for this, according to him also.

Of course, we are free to imagine whatever suits our mind and pooh pooh the whole thing as b***shit or something, but I feel such problems will continue to plague people irrespective of the shade/s of their personal belief system since, in my opinion, the Law of Karma rules even above any of our favoured imaginations of an all-powerful god and so on.

I don't say that performing tharpanams, Sraaddhams, Mahaalaya Paksham, etc., will automatically prevent or cure such afflictions; we must constantly review and refine our Karmas and that is the only remedy, imho.
 
Dear Sir,

If the lagnam changes for the second born twin - for example - will not Sani in the 5th house

for the first born of the twins, move to 4th for the second born, related to the lagnam? :confused:

Yes you are right. Sni moving into 6th house in my original post was a typo. I have since corrected it.
Thank you for the input.
 
Will someone please answer my genuine question?

Is there a putra dosham and putri dosham too? Are there any parihArams for that too?
I have not heard of these so far. But by observing the world for many years,

I think if our puthra / puthri do some acts to take away our 'santhOsham', those acts could be classified so!
 
.......... Is it because the 'lagnam' is the horoscope changed? The position

of all other grahams should be the same, unless the moon shifted to the next star within those few minutes!

This should be:

Is it because the 'lagnam' is the horoscope changed?
The position of all other grahams should be in the

same rAsi as in the first born's chart, unless the moon or some graham had shifted to the next rAsi within
those few minutes. :juggle:

 
......... May be people adversely affected by pitrusaapams can convert themselves into vaishnavites!
Dear Sangom Sir,

Where there is a will there is a way! Here is a way for saivites too! Please read.... :)

[FONT=SHREE_TAM_OTF_0802]முருகப்பெருமானை வணங்குவோர் நாளும் கோளும் பற்றி கவலை கொள்ள [/FONT]
[FONT=SHREE_TAM_OTF_0802]வே[/FONT][FONT=SHREE_TAM_OTF_0802]ண்டாம். கிரகங்களால்

உண்டாகும் துன்பங்களில் இருந்து விடுபட எளிய அருமையான வழியும் இருக்கிறது. கந்தர் அலங்காரப்

பாடல் ஒன்று இதற்கு சாட்சி. [/FONT]
[FONT=SHREE_TAM_OTF_0802]

இதோ அப்பாடல்...[/FONT]
[FONT=SHREE_TAM_OTF_0802]
'நாளென் செயும் வினைதான் என் செயும் எனை நாடிவந்த[/FONT]
[FONT=SHREE_TAM_OTF_0802]
கோளென் செயும் கொடுங்கூற்றென் செயும் குமரேசர் இரு[/FONT]
[FONT=SHREE_TAM_OTF_0802]
தாளும் சிலம்பும் சதங்கையும் தண்டையும் சண்முகமும்[/FONT]
[FONT=SHREE_TAM_OTF_0802]
தோளும் கடம்பும் எனக்கு முன்னே வந்து தோன்றிடினே'' [/FONT]
[FONT=SHREE_TAM_OTF_0802]
இந்தப் பாடலுக்குள்ளேயே 27 நட்சத்திரங்களும் அடங்கி விடுகின்றன. [/FONT]
[FONT=SHREE_TAM_OTF_0802]

இந்தப்பாடலின் பொருளைக் கேளுங்கள்.[/FONT]
[FONT=SHREE_TAM_OTF_0802]
நாள் என் செய்யும் - அஷ்டமி, நவமி போன்ற நாள்கள் நம்மை என்ன செய்யும்? [/FONT]
[FONT=SHREE_TAM_OTF_0802]
வினை தான் என் செயும்- தீயவினைகள் போன்ற கர்மவினைகள் தான் நம்மை என்ன செய்யும்? [/FONT]
[FONT=SHREE_TAM_OTF_0802]
எனை நாடிவந்த கோள் என் செயும்- நவக்கிரகங்களும் நம்மை என்ன செய்யும்?[/FONT]
[FONT=SHREE_TAM_OTF_0802]
கொடுங் கூற்றென் செயும்- கொடிய எமன் தான் என்ன செய்ய முடியும்? [/FONT]
[FONT=SHREE_TAM_OTF_0802]
குமரேசர் - குமரக்கடவுளாகிய முருகபெருமானின்[/FONT]
[FONT=SHREE_TAM_OTF_0802]
இரு தாளும்- திருப்பாதங்களும் (2) [/FONT]
[FONT=SHREE_TAM_OTF_0802]
சிலம்பும்- பாதத்தில் அணிந்திருக்கும் சிலம்பணியும் (2)[/FONT]
[FONT=SHREE_TAM_OTF_0802]
சதங்கையும்- சலங்கைகள் இரண்டும் (2)[/FONT]
[FONT=SHREE_TAM_OTF_0802]
தண்டையும்- தண்டைகளும் (2)[/FONT]
[FONT=SHREE_TAM_OTF_0802]
சண்முகமும்- ஆறுமுகங்களும் (6)[/FONT]
[FONT=SHREE_TAM_OTF_0802]
தோளும்- பன்னிரண்டு தோள்களும்(12)[/FONT]
[FONT=SHREE_TAM_OTF_0802]
கடம்பும்- மார்பில் ஆடும் கடப்பமலர் மாலையும் (1) ஆக 27-ம் எனக்கு முன்னே வந்து அருள்

பாலிக்கும்போது, நான் ஏன் நாளையும் கோளையும் கண்டு பயப்பட வேண்டும் என்கிறார்

இப்பாடல் ஆசிரியர் அருணகிரிநாதர்.

இந்தப் பாடலைப் பாடினால் குரு பெயர்ச்சி, சனி பெயர்ச்சி பற்றியெல்லாம் கவலையில்லை.
வேலவன் பாதுகாப்பான். 27 நட்சத்திரத்தில் எதில் பிறந்திருந்தாலும் கவ[/FONT]
[FONT=SHREE_TAM_OTF_0802]லை[/FONT][FONT=SHREE_TAM_OTF_0802]யில்லை. :peace:[/FONT]
 
i think, re pithrus or 'reclaiming our rights' we are all in a 'no win' situation.

since the dawn of the 20th century, the community has gone by the rule of the #cs - Convenience, Collaboration and Cash.

we twisted the rituals to suit our convenience, the vathiars collaborated with us for doing this, and in return we provided them cash in lieu of values. our conscience was cleared, as per 'namesake' we did the 'rituals' and supposedly satisified the pithrus and the rest of the society (so we thought).

personally, i think, this is the ripe time for reformation of our creed. move away from rituals and into the world of thought. that too simplified thought so that the least common denominator can understand, support, propagate and live by those thoughts. if that is not possible, then i think, we are in for further watering down to eventual merger with our host communities whether it be marathis, punjabis or canadians.

that may not be a bad thing, if one feels that this the normal flow of history. and that the past milleniums, with its adherence to the concept of purity of blood and lineage, through arranged marriage, is but a figment of imagination or aberration of norms. i dont know.

to talk of taking pledges and also getting powerfully positioned tambrams to identify their caste publicly and do religious identity type of things, will eventually smack of hindutva politics, as it invariably becomes a bastion of bashing everyone other than tambrams. that has been the results before, because we have tried. the tambram association is supposed to 'safeguard' our interests, but i think, we will have a big problems identifying what our 'interest' is.

many of us, abhor the cncept of separation from our hindu brethren. that type of distinctivity as practised 100 years ago, including agraharam living, does not hold water anymore. it is perhaps that isolation, more than anything else, prevented us from understanding the deep differences between the various tamil hindu groups. to us these were one homogeneous NB, and we can see from another thread by ashwin, who continues to carry that idea. must have been drummed pretty hard and good into his head.

many adhere themselves to mutts like kanchi or sringeri. but these are rock hard residences of status quo. the previous kanchi mutt head is supposed to have begged gandhi to call of vaikom struggle, as entry of dalits would eventually result in the destruction of sanatana dharma. everyone of us can wonder, on this action from a supposed learned pontiff, the fairness and empathyness of this attitude, as viewed by a God common to us all. in a world of equals, there should be no nandanars, and no need to deify him. for all of us are either nandanars or achaarayars.

i think no amount of hand wringing or breast beating is going to change the way the community is going. we can speculate on the results. but the facts are that agraharams are deserted. our girls are doing better and earning more than the boys. they are more open to marriages outside of our caste. and a significant portion of our community is outside of india. i may even venture to say, with a certain amount of confidence, that the majority of tambrams live outside of tamilnadu - just a gut feeling there.

with all this in the momentum, with an absolute zero in terms of leadership of any kind, and absolutely no vision of what we should be in the future, and having pangs over an imagined but what i think is a highly flawed past, i think, all we can do, to instant outbursts of folks like ashwin (he is gone now i think never to appear again), is to mope and mumble, pat some consolation, and keep on moving, doing the very same things, that some feel are inimical to our existence, and yet practise it.

jai tambram!
 
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