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Changing Times: Will Gay Marriage Be Legal in India?
- Thread starter Yamaka
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i saw a hindi movie recently, where one of the characters has to marry a dog, in order to get rid of some dosham (i think it is called manglik in hindi). hilarious!!!
H
Harini
Guest
Yes. MK Iyer has got many pawns and so it will be his Manivi or Thunaivi next to Tihar. Then he has got sons... and so he is safe. May be somebody should volunteer to be adopted by JJ (what happened to earlier adoptions?) to save her the next time DMK comes to power!
Your solution of adoption is shattering the very basis. Why should they marry as Gays and Lesbians (see my usage of capitals for my respect for them) if one can legally adopt the other? If adoption can have legal problem... then why there should not be problem in marriages?
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This quote of yours has brought in good humour to some of our members. But I am sure that people opposing legalisation relating to gay are not worried this way. Whether one is a gay/lesbian by choice or by chace is his/her own life and must be left at that. We do not have to give it "special care" by legalising any aspect of it. What do we do with a person born with a heart problem? Or what happens to a person who loses limbs? He/she is "left to lead his/her life". They defenitely are at a disadvantage over others. While medical profession tries its best to treat them, the affected patients continue their life with compromises. It is not a "burning issue" for the world but gay marriage is??
Delhi High Court has already legalized Gay activities..following this, whether India will make Gay Marriages legal is the issue...
Gay couple must have the SAME right like any other heterosexual couple under the Doctrine of Equal Rights, which is not a "special care" for them, IMO.
Discriminating against Gays is the violation of their Civil Rights, IMO.
Cheers.
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"Your solution of adoption is shattering the very basis. Why should they marry as Gays and Lesbians,......... if one can legally adopt the other? If adoption can have legal problem... then why there should not be problem in marriages?"--Harini asked.
Hello Harini:
Adopting children legally is one thing, and asking for their legal rights as homosexuals is quite another thing.
Homosexuals ask for Equal Rights as that of any heterosexuals, that's all.
As I said elsewhere, human sexuality is very complex. No one understands why some are heterosexuals and others are homosexuals.
Technically, Lesbians and Gays can clone themselves and raise their kids - in the US human cloning is outlawed now, but other countries have no laws.
Gays and Lesbians can temporarily move to a permissible country and clone themselves, if adopting kids is a problem, psychologically.
Cheers.
Hello Harini:
Adopting children legally is one thing, and asking for their legal rights as homosexuals is quite another thing.
Homosexuals ask for Equal Rights as that of any heterosexuals, that's all.
As I said elsewhere, human sexuality is very complex. No one understands why some are heterosexuals and others are homosexuals.
Technically, Lesbians and Gays can clone themselves and raise their kids - in the US human cloning is outlawed now, but other countries have no laws.
Gays and Lesbians can temporarily move to a permissible country and clone themselves, if adopting kids is a problem, psychologically.
Cheers.
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I understand the issue. I am only questioning whether it should be an issue at all.
The concern on “Doctrine of equal rights” and “violation of civil rights” sound quite progressive and promising. But please refer to your post in “நெஞ்சுபொறுக்குதில்லையே“ where you have mentioned that 80% of our population is living in poor status. Have we done anything about their “civil rights” or “equal rights”?
For a poor who can not get daily meal, getting food is a burning issue.
For a student with 85% marks, the near-100% cut off is a burning issue.
For a person with disabilities, attending to daily chores is a burning issue.
For Anna Hazare and his followers, Lokpal is a burning issue
For Dr.M.M.Singh, “managing” to rule for full 5 years is a burning issue.
For medical profession, tackling HIV,etc. is a burning issue.
And here in Tamilbrahmins.com, legalisation of gay marriage is a burning issue!
I can now understand why the members are busy “Thinking English”! I wish someone also thinks (pro)Brahmin in a forum of Tamil Brahmins.
I recollect Elbert Hubbard’s quote: “Character is the result of two things: mental attitude and the way we spend our time”.
I assure that none of my statements above is directed at any individual and is only out of concern for Brahmins.
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S
subbudu1
Guest
Yamaka my only concern is the impact of sudden legalization rather than a gradual assimilation.
Today to some extent society knows how to cope with the security issues faced by women due to violent men. A girl is taught to recognize that a male teacher who shows physical interest in a girl is not innocent. A girl carefully thinks before going out with a guy due to the inherent fears instilled in her. In the west the girls even keep a spray or something like that. At work women learn to understand the subtle signs shown by men. Agreed that some women tend to be unreasonably cautious but there is a preparedness.
Today many parents send their children to boarding school, hostels and in unisex places, without the slightest sense of preparedness. The corporate sector are yet to hear of cases where a male complains of abuse by another male in a senior position , repeat that for females. With legalization the same confusion that occurs between man and women, which is whether an act of sex occured due to mutual consent or rape can occur.
One cannot go by the blind assumption that there is sufficient legal remedy for such problems. One must make a ground assessment. In USA , I am sure the legal sysetm is proactive and there is a much better understanding of rights. But in India, I doubt!
Problems may be similar as straight marriages , but one cannot go by assumptions.
Not to speak about the fine line between discussion, encouragement and indoctrination !
Health Minister Azad,while delivering a Lecture in a Seminar in Vigyan Bhavan attended by high dignitaries like Prime Minister MMS,Congress President SG,and a number of
Parliamentarians has remarked that Sex between Men is a type of 'Disease' and unnatural.
Source: Yahoo News.
Parliamentarians has remarked that Sex between Men is a type of 'Disease' and unnatural.
Source: Yahoo News.
Homosexuality a disease that is fast spreading: Health minister - Indian Express
BK,
i was surprised by azad's views, that too, in public. what an idiot!! unless he is pandering to his conservative voter bloc back home in kashmir.
otherwise, there was no need for him to make such a statement. i would imagine the congress party is much more lenient and fair on homosexuality, than the BJP or the communists.
does not make sense. that too, a 'fast spreading disease'? hilarious, coming from a health minister.
BK,
i was surprised by azad's views, that too, in public. what an idiot!! unless he is pandering to his conservative voter bloc back home in kashmir.
otherwise, there was no need for him to make such a statement. i would imagine the congress party is much more lenient and fair on homosexuality, than the BJP or the communists.
does not make sense. that too, a 'fast spreading disease'? hilarious, coming from a health minister.
Greetings.
I am not joining the discussion.
One man amoung my customers during my yeaterday shift. I was going to check his blood oxygen level.. noticed purpule nail polish. I did even mouth any word.. just with a ..mmm.. I looked up to him. He said 'Raghy, I am gay'. He borrowed the nail polish from one of the other lady patients. So, why this is important? Well, he is planning to drown, once he gets out of the hospital. Even though he has such a strong suicide ideation, he still found it important to polish his nails, that too purple! (By the way, purple is the colour that denotes gay. like pink denotes girls and blue denotes boys).
I am not joining the discussion.
One man amoung my customers during my yeaterday shift. I was going to check his blood oxygen level.. noticed purpule nail polish. I did even mouth any word.. just with a ..mmm.. I looked up to him. He said 'Raghy, I am gay'. He borrowed the nail polish from one of the other lady patients. So, why this is important? Well, he is planning to drown, once he gets out of the hospital. Even though he has such a strong suicide ideation, he still found it important to polish his nails, that too purple! (By the way, purple is the colour that denotes gay. like pink denotes girls and blue denotes boys).
dear raghy,
not sure what you trying to say here? is gay genetic or a sickness? or that gays love purple!!
The Health Minister is reported to have said,” The disease of ‘Men having Sex with Men’ (MSM), which was found more in the developed world, has now unfortunately come to our country and there is a substantial number of such people in India”. Mr. Azad regretted that despite being unnatural, homosexuality now afflicts a substantial number of people in India.
If homo-sexuality is not un-natural, what is straight relationship?
But the “activists” are “outraged” with his remarks.
They would have expected him to say, “The boon of ‘Men having Sex with Men’ (MSM), which was found more in the developed world, has now fortunately come to our country and there is a substantial number of such people in India. I am glad such a natural phenomenon now inspires a substantial number of people in India.”
Going by the above, the Law Minister can say,” The crime rate in India is still not up to speed with many nations and we need to work in this direction”.
The Finance Minister could say, “The poverty rates in India are not as big as Ethiopia. We would dispatch a special team there to emulate their model”.
By the way, the Health Minister happens to be a Muslim and hence he gets the blame individually. If he was a Hindu then “Hindutva” would have got the blame.
If homo-sexuality is not un-natural, what is straight relationship?
But the “activists” are “outraged” with his remarks.
They would have expected him to say, “The boon of ‘Men having Sex with Men’ (MSM), which was found more in the developed world, has now fortunately come to our country and there is a substantial number of such people in India. I am glad such a natural phenomenon now inspires a substantial number of people in India.”
Going by the above, the Law Minister can say,” The crime rate in India is still not up to speed with many nations and we need to work in this direction”.
The Finance Minister could say, “The poverty rates in India are not as big as Ethiopia. We would dispatch a special team there to emulate their model”.
By the way, the Health Minister happens to be a Muslim and hence he gets the blame individually. If he was a Hindu then “Hindutva” would have got the blame.
1. Doctrine of Equal Rights and Civil Rights is already enshrined in the US/Indian Constitution... it's not something "sound quite progressive and promising".
I only say that the Gays must assert their rights.
2. Yes, the data is out there that nearly 900 million Indians are making less than Rs.150 a day, and of this about 800 million people are under the choke hold of Religious Orthodoxy, which has kept them inside the Gates of Hell... my solution is that these people must use their Free Will to break open the chains of slavery (to Religious Orthodoxy) and liberate to go to the land of prosperity.
3. The burning issues you cited are real and needs resolution. But this does not mean the Gays' Civil Rights must be violated, and they need not be relegated to the specter of condescension and ridicule by the Religiosity which is running amok all around.
4. People have the right to "Think English/Hindi/Tamil/French/whatever language".
Many people are already thinking "pro-Brahmin) in a Tamil Brahmin Forum, which is meant to be for encouraging "Other Points of View". Lest members will breath the same old stale spent air which has lost all the oxygen - meaning if you need fresh oxygen, you need to think "out of the box", IMO.
Yes, attitudes must change...people must change for "Time and Tide wait for none".
My statements are also not to target any individual(s) but to air the concerns of other fellow human beings.
Cheers.
Very sad, this Health Minister is talking dirty politics about a topic which touches humanity.
This reminds me of Ronald Reagan in early 1980s... he realized his horrendous mistake only after seeing one of his best friends Rock Hudson, who was a Gay and was dying of HIV AIDS.
The fact of the matter is, nearly 10-15% of world population, including India, are Gays. Not that this phenomenon started in the West... this has been already THERE everywhere since the dawn of mankind.
Now we are talking about their Civil Rights... that's all.
This minister Azad is a bigot - a very cheap politician. I hope Dr. MMS kicks him out for making such divisive and ignorant comment publicly.
Very sad.
It will be OK as long as there is a commitment from the persons concerned to stay together all through their life time.
Sri.Kunjuppu sir, Greetings.
All I am saying is, homosexuality is just a preference. It is not a sickness. I don't know if it is genetic. (Also I say, gays love purple colour; it may be news to some of the members in this forum).
Legalising gay relationship is fine, provided, one of the partner does not have one more family on the side. (some persons are Bi-sexual). then it can become sticky.
Homosexuality is not new phenomenon in India; it existed for a long time anyway.
Cheers!
raghy,
the way i understand it, 'preference' implies a choice.
ie one can choose to be gay. or not.
i feel, that for gays, there is no choice. it is not an option for them, to be straight or gay. they are gay, because something in them, makes them that way. they are born gay. i think their genes make up is gay.
i think such. thanks.
N
Nara
Guest
Hello Siva,
Cheers!
What is straight has nothing to do with what homosexual is. We find homosexual behavior in other mammals too, please google if you don't believe me. So, some members of our species preferring same gender for sexual gratification does not make seeking sexual gratification from the opposite gender any more, or any less, natural.
The "activists" are outraged because he, as the health minister, and giving a speech to Aids conference, said homosexuality is a decease. That is an outrage. In South Africa, your adopted country, President Mbeke's Aids denial caused 300,000 deaths, The Guardian reported. Lack of knowledge and fear causes lives. To see this happen in our mother country is a cause for serious concern.
Homosexuality is not a crime, it is not an economic condition. It is not unnatural. All they want is for the society to come to terms with it. The way to come to terms with it is to recognize their relationship, their love, on par with opposite sex relationship and love. This does not take anything away from anyone, but only expands human understanding and compassion. Why is there so much opposition, what are we afraid of?
This man is facing severe criticism, for which we all must be thankful, because what he said was total nonsense, especially coming from the Health Minister. If he was a Hindu, whether the criticism would go beyond the person to the Hindutva ideology will depend upon what Hindutva says about this issue. In this respect, personally, I think Islam is quite backward, as in many other aspects. If the Health Minister's comments were in anyway motivated by his religion, which I suspect theyh were, I hold both his religion and himself responsible for this gross ignorance and hatred. Is Hindutva any better? I think not!
Cheers!
Dear Shri.Y: I find sarcacism in the last line of your post no.156.
I do agree that we need "fresh oxygen".
We can not support Gay activism just because 10-15% of the population is Gay. That way, if 25% of population are criminals, are we going to support crime?
When I said, "Thinking English", I did not mean English language. I implied Western thinking, which I think is what that thread starter also implied.
Nara ji: You have convenienty skipped some of the issues, as you always do. There is no denial that HS is unnatural. Are we justifying it because even animals practise it? Haven't we "evolved"? (Poor Darwin).
I do agree that we need "fresh oxygen".
We can not support Gay activism just because 10-15% of the population is Gay. That way, if 25% of population are criminals, are we going to support crime?
When I said, "Thinking English", I did not mean English language. I implied Western thinking, which I think is what that thread starter also implied.
Nara ji: You have convenienty skipped some of the issues, as you always do. There is no denial that HS is unnatural. Are we justifying it because even animals practise it? Haven't we "evolved"? (Poor Darwin).
C RAVI
0
What a statement Shri Haridasa Siva!!! You were spot on.
I think humans are now gradually evolving to have no different forms of survival on this Earth. Why any discrimanations to indulge in? We are humans and have brain to think and be fair with all Jeeva Rashis on this lovely Earth and be one among them as they are.
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ShivKC
Guest
there is a good point said by shri.HS.
should we go by majority? then we should be approving child marriage, which was prevalent in india just 4 decades ago? why changing colours instantly?
going by majority and head count, CROW should have been the national bird for us, not peacock!!
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nara,
i have found that empathy and sympathy, which was never present in a person, suddenly overflows, when it comes to affect oneself or one's own dear ones.
know a white guy who used to make fun of the gays, in the grossest terms. till his son announced that he was gay. it took a while, but this father came around. admitted he was wrong, and between having a 'gay son' and 'not a son', he preferred the former.
i have seen the same thing with tambrams in toronto. in the 70s and 80s when most of us had young families, any marriage outside the caste was greeted with derision and contempt. ' my son (or daughter) will never do that'... till the 90s came when their own children came of marriageable age.
some married into the caste out of parental compulsion or bowing to their parents' wishes. 100% failure rate i am afraid, as all these divorced or separated within two years max.
nowadays, most tambram parents here are happy to see their children married and married happily. who the children chose to marry, appears not a concern anymore.
in toronto, we have not yet had any openly acknowledged gays, though one guy here got married in india at his parents' behest. he was effeminate, and we could not figure out how the parents could dare do this. sure enough the girl returned to india within 2 weeks after coming here.
in the usa, i know of one tambram guy, who celebrated his marriage, with his white partner. it was pacific west, washington or oregon.
i can see the same thing happening in india, even to ghulam nabi azad, should one of his children turn out to be gay. after all, even ronald reagan changed his views, once his daughter outed herself to be a lesbian.
such is life.
folks who are now dead set against the gays, will continue to do so, in this forum, and outside. those who think otherwise, like me, will also continue to do so.
such too is life
ps.. one good reason not to have too rigid a stance in life, i have found, is that it is easier to change the views. one should always leave the back door open a bit. i have quite a few cases of fathers or mothers breaking down beyond repair - over choice of spouse or sexual preference of their child
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