Changing times

[Nara]

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The last couple of days I have been thinking about two posts in the recent few days. One is from Srimati Sunita:

Absolutely no denying that. I only wanted to know if there was any reason behind this. Tomorrow if my daughter asks me the same i should be able to answer her.

The other is from a thread that is now closed, post #387 of Meritocracy thread.

It is like my daughter's teacher telling her that human blood is the same color whether it is that of a Komala or of Janet.

In my youth difficult questions from kids were dismissed as அதிகப்ரசிங்கித்தனம். Those days are gone, young parents like Sunita want to take on any question the younguns may pose and answer them in a rational and acceptable way. At the same time, kids these days are not like the kids when I was a kid, pretty deferential to the parent's "wisdom". These kids are encouraged to question everything, and they do so with gusto, which is a good think IMO.

These days brahmin kids mingle with all sorts of other kids in school and college, and they see they are no different from any other. So, when a teacher challenges the kids to think that the blood in the veins of Lasksmi or Mary or Aisha are all of the same color, it makes perfect sense to them, including the kids who happen to be born into Brahmin families. They just don't see their friends in caste terms. These kids can't be shown the importance of caste purity by simply telling them Brahmins are unique by birth. If you tell them there is genetic uniqueness to Brahmins they may keep quiet for the moment out of respect, but what they are actually thinking inside is another matter.

The times are changing. Young kids reject casteist rhetoric coming from the likes of the மருத்துவர் or from their own parents, uncles and aunts. Those parents of would be teenagers with an open mind are well advised to take this in their stride and make the transition into caste free families, only happiness and joy awaits at the other end.

 

[prasad1]

It is like my daughter's teacher telling her that human blood is the same color whether it is that of a Komala or of Janet.

The color of blood is same from all animals too? What has that got do with anything?

 

[sarang]

Colour may be the same. But the body rejects mismatched blood, bad blood and organ transplants unless special, sometimes unnatural, means are adopted.

 

[Vaagmi]

The color of blood is same from all animals too? What has that got do with anything?

Dear Prasad,

That is what you think and many of us think. For that teacher of my daughter who was a true thrice born christian, there was an opportunity to tell a brahmin girl that there is no difference between human beings and ultimately to make the girl feel bad that she is a brahmin.

 

[Vaagmi]

In my youth difficult questions from kids were dismissed as அதிகப்ரசிங்கித்தனம். Those days are gone, young parents like Sunita want to take on any question the younguns may pose and answer them in a rational and acceptable way. At the same time, kids these days are not like the kids when I was a kid, pretty deferential to the parent's "wisdom". These kids are encouraged to question everything, and they do so with gusto, which is a good think IMO.

Each member has his own experiences in life. My dad never dismissed my questions lightly however silly or provocative they may be. He had the patience to explain in the way I understood. As a young boy studying in 5th standard when my friend Donald Fernando told me one day that for him "எம் மதம் மட்டுமே சம்மதம்" in reply to my saying that for me "எம் மதமும் சம்மதம்" I was clean bowled. When I took this to my father as I was troubled by the constant din by my teachers that all religions lead to the same goal, my father explained to me the true meaning of "எம் மதமும் சம்மதம்". He could have dismissed me with an advice not to bother about what D. Fernando said. But he did not do that. That day he taught me how to keep my faith in tact while dealing with opposite ideas. Kids even these days respect the wisdom of their parents. The other day two kids came to my house. They were the children of my relative. Sraddah and charan-twins, one a girl and the other a boy. They came because they had visited their other relatives and an old man had passed away in that family. The children were talking to me. They were aged just 7 years. The boy, Charan, was telling me that the Thaththaa had gone to spend time with the God (what his parents told him about the death). Then he went on explaining in a kid's language what all he saw in that house. He said the thaththaa's toes were tied together. There was cotton plugs in his nose, that he was closing his eyes but was wearing his spectacles, that he was not breathing-there was no rising and falling of his chest, etc., etc., The girl on seeing that the boy was repeating many of these things, sharply told him "Mother has asked you to forget it. Why don't you do that?" The boy immediately stopped but explained to me that he was not able to forget it. I told him he will forget it the next day. He was unable to forget it because it was fresh in his mind. I am explaining this lnly to show that children respect the elders and their wisdom and accept what is told. May be they will think for themselves when they grow older. I did that when I was in my high School and college to become an atheist.

These days brahmin kids mingle with all sorts of other kids in school and college, and they see they are no different from any other. So, when a teacher challenges the kids to think that the blood in the veins of Lasksmi or Mary or Aisha are all of the same color, it makes perfect sense to them, including the kids who happen to be born into Brahmin families. They just don't see their friends in caste terms. These kids can't be shown the importance of caste purity by simply telling them Brahmins are unique by birth. If you tell them there is genetic uniqueness to Brahmins they may keep quiet for the moment out of respect, but what they are actually thinking inside is another matter.

In our times too we mingled with all sorts of other kids. I was one among the two brahmin boys in a class of 45 students. It depends on the parents and the kind of equation they have with their children and also on the quality of time they spend with their children. A generalisation may not be correct here.

The times are changing. Young kids reject casteist rhetoric coming from the likes of the மருத்துவர் or from their own parents, uncles and aunts. Those parents of would be teenagers with an open mind are well advised to take this in their stride and make the transition into caste free families, only happiness and joy awaits at the other end.

It is a gratuitous advice and brahmin parents may not readily take it. They have their own mind and do think with that.

 

[sangom]

Dear Shri Nara,

It is the kind of situations explained by Smt. Sunita (which you refer to) which ultimately drive some of the tabra girls to IC/IR love affairs and marriage. In my limited experience, however much the brahmin or tabra parents exert themselves in explaining, rationalizing, etc., about 'caste system', all these are bound to fail in the future.

Red coloured blood is the common link for almost all living things on this planet because ultimately all of them - man and animals - are one block (or let us say, caste) as far as Nature is concerned. Whereas animals have not created any caste system among themselves and are content to understand and obey Nature's design, and live accordingly, and while most other humans also live comfortably without any 'caste by birth' classification, the people of this sub-continent alone are yet to learn this basic truth. But even they will be forced to.

 

[prasad1]

Dear Prasad,

That is what you think and many of us think. For that teacher of my daughter who was a true thrice born christian, there was an opportunity to tell a brahmin girl that there is no difference between human beings and ultimately to make the girl feel bad that she is a brahmin.

Sir,
I was responding to the quote from Naraji's post. We repeat like parrot some phrases without understanding. So a phrase which had a meaning at one time becomes useless unless it is used in proper context.
Royal blood is not "Blue blood (that too is red)". Similarly all blood may be red but not necessarily same. I did not know the source of original quote was from your post, nor its context.
I did not know the intent of the teacher either. Generally it is used to show that all humans are same under the skin (color).
I would let my post stand for comments on its own merit. We are all the same Atma (if we become realized), but till that time we are different bodies.
All elements are made of same electrons, protons, etc, but lead is not gold (In value terms).

To be honest I did not understand your post, as you did not respond to my post.

 

[prasad1]

Dear Shri Nara,

It is the kind of situations explained by Smt. Sunita (which you refer to) which ultimately drive some of the tabra girls to IC/IR love affairs and marriage. In my limited experience, however much the brahmin or tabra parents exert themselves in explaining, rationalizing, etc., about 'caste system', all these are bound to fail in the future.

Red coloured blood is the common link for almost all living things on this planet because ultimately all of them - man and animals - are one block (or let us say, caste) as far as Nature is concerned. Whereas animals have not created any caste system among themselves and are content to understand and obey Nature's design, and live accordingly, and while most other humans also live comfortably without any 'caste by birth' classification, the people of this sub-continent alone are yet to learn this basic truth. But even they will be forced to.

YES YES and YES.
I agree with this post.

 

[sangom]

Dear Shri Nara,

It is the kind of situations explained by Smt. Sunita (which you refer to) which ultimately drive some of the tabra girls to IC/IR love affairs and marriage. In my limited experience, however much the brahmin or tabra parents exert themselves in explaining, rationalizing, etc., about 'caste system', all these are bound to fail in the future.

Red coloured blood is the common link for almost all living things on this planet because ultimately all of them - man and animals - are one block (or let us say, caste) as far as Nature is concerned. Whereas animals have not created any caste system among themselves and are content to understand and obey Nature's design, and live accordingly, and while most other humans also live comfortably without any 'caste by birth' classification, the people of this sub-continent alone are yet to learn this basic truth. But even they will be forced to.

 

[auh]

Dear Shri Nara,

It is the kind of situations explained by Smt. Sunita (which you refer to) which ultimately drive some of the tabra girls to IC/IR love affairs and marriage. In my limited experience, however much the brahmin or tabra parents exert themselves in explaining, rationalizing, etc., about 'caste system', all these are bound to fail in the future.

Most of these IC/IR LA&MC (love affairs and marriage candidates) do it not because they view anything as vile or evil, but only because caste or religion is an obstacle to their goal, which is to marry their chosen one. They, even if irreligious, would oppose even their parents/siblings in such cases were they to stand against them (notwithstanding whether their choice is right or wrong). And such LA&MC would try to bring their children in one caste/religion or the other. It is only a few that would cross the boundaries of religion or caste.

Ultimately, it is more a matter of choice than a rejection of a system. Perhaps, they may voice out that their actions are against caste or religion, for the sake of society.

Red coloured blood is the common link for almost all living things on this planet because ultimately all of them - man and animals - are one block (or let us say, caste) as far as Nature is concerned. Whereas animals have not created any caste system among themselves and are content to understand and obey Nature's design, and live accordingly, and while most other humans also live comfortably without any 'caste by birth' classification, the people of this sub-continent alone are yet to learn this basic truth. But even they will be forced to.

Humans cannot live like animals for we do not practice many of what they practice, and so it would be wrong to make such a generalization. For example, animals do not come to a forum and chat up on experiences and opinions; so your analogy is entirely off the mark here.

 

[renuka]

For example, animals do not come to a forum and chat up on experiences and opinions;

I guess you have not lived near animals to observe their behavior.
I grew up surrounded by a jungle where I have even seen a Monkey Court in full session where the defendant and the victim were given a chance to 'speak' out and 3 senior monkeys sat as judges and finally found the defendant guilty and all 3 hit him and the defendant did not fight back and accepted his sentence.

Animals too have their own system and Dharma.

I have also seen inter species communication where monkeys could actually relate in monkey language to my dog and my dog understood every word they said and went to help..to free a trapped monkey.

So I feel we should never underestimate animals..every howl of a dog differs..each howl has a different meaning..live with them we can understand them...for all we know they might be into social networking!LOL

 

[auh]

I guess you have not lived near animals to observe their behavior.

You wouldnt know much about me and so your guesswork is only as valid as a non-existent thought.

So I feel we should never underestimate animals..every howl of a dog differs..each howl has a different meaning..live with them we can understand them...for all we know they might be into social networking!LOL

I think you have misunderstood my post. I only say that humans cannot be compared with animals because they do not do things as we do. There is no talk of underestimation, unless, of couse, you see anything to that effect there.

 

[renuka]

answers in blue:

You wouldnt know much about me and so your guesswork is only as valid as a non-existent thought.

Well..I guess the thought is existent enough that it actually got even a reply!
Therefore the thought exists!



I think you have misunderstood my post. I only say that humans cannot be compared with animals because they do not do things as we do. There is no talk of underestimation, unless, of couse, you see anything to that effect there.

Tell me??How different are we from animals?

We eat, sleep,"make out" and get progeny..then die!

Not much difference if you ask me.

No one remembers anyone after they die unless they are a movie star or some singer!

You see..I do not even remember my dead relatives but I still remember Michael Jackson when I hear his songs anywhere.

 

[auh]

Well..I guess the thought is existent enough that it actually got even a reply!
Therefore the thought exists!

The post was about the validity of the thought and not about the existence ! You have misunderstood even now !

Tell me??How different are we from animals?
We eat, sleep,"make out" and get progeny..then die!
Not much difference if you ask me.

We are considerably different; and I am surprised that as a doctor, you have to say this.

If life is all about "We eat, sleep,"make out" and get progeny..then die!", then, dear renuka, what are you doing here? . There are a lot more finer things that really define life.

 

[Raji Ram]

.......... The times are changing. Young kids reject casteist rhetoric coming from the likes of the மருத்துவர் or from their own parents, uncles and aunts. Those parents of would be teenagers with an open mind are well advised to take this in their stride and make the transition into caste free families, only happiness and joy awaits at the other end.

Dear Prof Sir,

All humans are the same kind of living beings. Right. So are the dogs. But will the owner of a Pomeranian dog

look for its mate in any other variety of dog? This question has been bothering me for a long time!

 

[Raji Ram]

The above question made me write this!

இக்கட்டில் மாட்டும் இக்காலப் பெற்றோர்கள்!

ஜாதிகள் இரண்டொழிய வேறில்லை; ஆண், பெண் என்று!
போதிப்பதற்கு எளிதுதான்; சாதிக்குமா நடைமுறையில்?

“குலத்தில் நாங்களே உயர்வு” என்போரிடம்தான் – இன்று
கலக்கல் கல்யாணங்கள் முதன்மை வகிக்கிறது!

“சாத்திரம் பலப்பல பேசும் சழக்கர்காள்!
கோத்திரமும் குலமும் கொண்டு என் செய்வீர்?” – என

வீறு கொண்டு முழங்கிய பாரதி, தம் சம்பந்திகளை
வேறு குலத்தில் தேர்வு செய்யத் தயங்கி நின்றாரே?

கற்றையாய் பணத்தை கணினித் துறை இன்று தரும்போது
சுற்றத்தை எண்ணாது ஜோடிகள் சேருவது சாபக்கேடு!

ஒன்றுக்குப் பல மடங்காய்ப் பிள்ளையின் சம்பளம் உயரும்போது
ஒன்றும் பேச வழியில்லை! பெற்றோருக்குப் பெரும் பாடு!

துணை தேடும் செல்லப் பிராணிக்கு நாலு தலைமுறை அலசி
துணை தேடும் எத்தனைபேரை நம்மிடைக் காண்கின்றோம்!

பிள்ளைகளே வேறு குலத் துணையை நாடும்போது – அப்
பிள்ளைகளின் பெற்றோர் எய்துவரோ இறும்பூது?

சம்மதம் தாம் கொடுத்தாலும், அவர் தம் சுற்றத்திடம்
சம்மதம் கேட்க இயலாது இக்கட்டில் நிற்கின்றார்!

கொடுக்கல் வாங்கல் இல்லையென்று சொன்னாலும் - இன்று
கலக்கல் கல்யாணங்களில் செலவுக்கும் குறைவில்லை!

“பணம் பாதாளம் வரை பாயும்” என்பது பழமொழி;
“பணம் கல்யாணமேடையும் ஏறும்” என்பது புதுமொழி!

எந்த முறையிலும் சடங்குகள் செய்திட வழியுண்டு!
சொந்த பந்தங்களும் வந்து வாழ்த்திட வகையுண்டு!

இக்கட்டில் மாட்டி நின்று இப் பெற்றோர் படும்பாடு கண்டு,
பக்கத்தில் சென்று ஆறுதல் கூறுவதே நம் பண்பாடு இன்று!

 

[renuka]

Answers in blue:

We are considerably different; and I am surprised that as a doctor, you have to say this.


I once had to attend to a puppy brought to my clinic which has glue stuck on its eye lids.
The owner really wanted help!
What to do?? So I saw the puppy even though I am not Vet.

So I had to use some thinner to remove the glue and quickly irrigate the eyes and the puppy was back to normal and jumping around.
Gave antibiotic eye ointment for the puppy too.

So the experience was the same.. treating humans or animals.



If life is all about "We eat, sleep,"make out" and get progeny..then die!", then, dear renuka, what are you doing here? . There are a lot more finer things that really define life.

Right now I am free hence I am typing in Forum..otherwise I would be busy either eating,sleeping,making out and then one day surely dying!

That itself takes time..so no time for finer things in life like pondering about "Ko'ham" and hoping to hear an echo of "So'ham"!LOL

 

[renuka]

Dear Prof Sir,

All humans are the same kind of living beings. Right. So are the dogs. But will the owner of a Pomeranian dog

look for its mate in any other variety of dog? This question has been bothering me for a long time!

Dear RR ji,

You have brought up a valid point!

You see..you are right..it the owners who wont allow the mating but the dogs have no problems mating with each other despite being a different breed.

Have you see dogs let loose during mating season?

I have seen even German Shepherds mating with Local Party Jungle dog too.

It's just dogs party time!LOL

 

[Nara]

Dear Prof Sir,

All humans are the same kind of living beings. Right. So are the dogs. But will the owner of a Pomeranian dog

look for its mate in any other variety of dog? This question has been bothering me for a long time!

Dear Mrs. RR, you are right about one thing, the casteist parents are like dog owners, they treat their children the way the dog owners treat their dogs. Left to their own devices, the Pomeranian dog will have no qualms mating with a street mutt.

thanks ....

 

[prasad1]

Dear Mrs. RR, you are right about one thing, the casteist parents are like dog owners, they treat their children the way the dog owners treat their dogs. Left to their own devices, the Pomeranian dog will have no qualms mating with a street mutt.

thanks ....

I did not realize that Human culture has gone to dogs (literally). The words "Human" and "Culture" can not be applied to any other species. So now it is not enough to criticize people on this site, but added to the insult is that somehow they are less than animals (Dogs). Human have evolved over centuries, and have of code of ethics and social norms, justice system and aspiration to achieve Knowledge. I do not think dogs have any those aspirations. So to equate Dogs to people on this site is crass at best.

As for mating (or having sex, raping) with any other human (of all sex and even animals) there is no caste barrier. That was a very low from the point of argument. Marriages and having sex are two different things. There is not even a close resemblance. I do not believe people ask prostitutes for their caste.

Marriages are for the people involved, and their close family and friends. So one marries outside the normal there is friction and heartache. But if the people involved are strong and determined to go ahead with the marriage, the family and friends should support them.
IC/IR marriages should not be forced by society. It should be up to the people involved.

 

[Nara]

.... So to equate Dogs to people on this site is crass at best. ....

See Mrs. RR, all I did was answer a question you posed to me, one that was bothering you for a long time, namely:

All humans are the same kind of living beings. Right. So are the dogs. But will the owner of a Pomeranian dog

look for its mate in any other variety of dog?

Now I am getting criticized that I am equating dogs to people. I don't know when people will read the posts properly before jumping in with their wise comments.

 

[jaisiyaraam]

Namaste Naraji,

...I don't know when people will read the posts properly before jumping in with their wise comments...

ippudu choodu....

This is an open forum and everyone has the right to make comments, comparisons, pick & choose posts to read/interpret/reply in their own way (limited knowledge?).

idhu eppadi irukku...

Thanks,
Jai SiyaRaam

 

[jaichand]

Caste System has come to Stay in India. One may write here a Brahamin boy or a girl marrying other caste people or religion. But in Practical I will not support what some people say" Color of blood is Red bla bla and saying"எம் மதமும் சம்மதம்". All these not not Practical when comes to marriage i will not agree. If I start writing on this Topic it will be a Big and lengthy writing. I will not bother what some so called most Forward and westernized Brahmins say on these issues. i will write on this tomorrow.

 

[auh]

Dear Mrs. RR, you are right about one thing, the casteist parents are like dog owners, they treat their children the way the dog owners treat their dogs. Left to their own devices, the Pomeranian dog will have no qualms mating with a street mutt.

thanks ....

Quite right you are, and perhaps, an extension of the above statement would be to say that non-casteist parents treat their kids like stray dogs; untamed and quite willing to mate with any canine. Left to their own devices, as you say.

 

[SANDHYAV]

conclusion:

naa obvious the dog is at the centre of spirituality and psychology now

manidan is a kalavai?? kadavul padhi and mirugam padhi !!