Bhagawan Ramana Maharishi

[sravna]

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I believe the distractions for the mind and body are too much and so primarily one needs to cope up with them. But for that our philosophy itself may be a distraction and there definitely should be strong elements of pragmatism in the coping up process. I suggest we take the essence of our philosophy but display pragmatism in apt ways. Otherwise we will definitely be taken for a ride and end up worse than before.

I emphasize that I do strongly suggest that at the inner level we need to be caring for others. I would say that would be nirguna brahman or Lord Krishna's approach to display pragmatism to act in accordance with higher dharma.

 

[KRS]

Dear Shri KRS and Renuka

I do understand the importance of the teachings but let me be clear about that. There is not enough balance in what is taught. But I am not blaming you for that. You are doing your work. But let us all understand that people should be receptive to them and find them applicable. When we say such high words as there are no others can we expect the common man to understand them and live by them. My real test of effectiveness of teaching is the understanding of it and living of it by the common man. Ivory tower teaching is not going to take us far. And more importantly do we ourselves have the real conviction in what we teach and live by them.

I am just placing some points to ponder. Let our work for the upliftment of mind of others not be just a futile or an academic exercise.

Dear Sri Sravana Ji Sir,

Yes, a common man like me can understand these ‘high philosophy’ words or (at least think I do) because I have taught myself the fundamentals of our religion, over the major part of my life now. Like anything in life, one starts with the fundamentals; one can not do a Ph.D. in mathematics, without learning the numbers. And then too only a few pursue higher level mathematics.

In my opinion, Spirituality is similar. And in our tradition, a Guru will manifest to the Sishya, when the Sishya is ready to learn. Our scriptures talk about the qualifications of a person who is ready to learn.

So, what I am saying is that if your mind is prepared to receive such a teaching, you will understand. Otherwise you won’t. I am not saying that one condition is better than the other. One finds utility in the teaching, while some other may not. This is why our religion encourages all different types of Spiritual practices. What Ramana Maharishi said may not be understood by many. It is okay. The aim is not to train the world, but address those who are attracted to his words.

Spirituality, especially Advaitha Sambradhayam is not all logic. It‘s goal is transcendental. One has to do practice with the belief of attaining Moksha.

By the way, there is no meritocracy in Spirituality. It is all for the uplift of the ‘common man’. One does not need to be educated, or in the common sense need to be intelligent to understand one’s Guru’s teachings. If one does have questions, one is encouraged to ask and get answers to those questions.

Again, my postings and other similar postings about other Masters here are not for teaching any fundamentals of Spirituality to anyone. They are for the already initiated/followers of specific Gurus.

 

[sravna]

Dear Sri Sravana Ji Sir,

Yes, a common man like me can understand these ‘high philosophy’ words or (at least think I do) because I have taught myself the fundamentals of our religion, over the major part of my life now. Like anything in life, one starts with the fundamentals; one can not do a Ph.D. in mathematics, without learning the numbers. And then too only a few pursue higher level mathematics.

In my opinion, Spirituality is similar. And in our tradition, a Guru will manifest to the Sishya, when the Sishya is ready to learn. Our scriptures talk about the qualifications of a person who is ready to learn.

So, what I am saying is that if your mind is prepared to receive such a teaching, you will understand. Otherwise you won’t. I am not saying that one condition is better than the other. One finds utility in the teaching, while some other may not. This is why our religion encourages all different types of Spiritual practices. What Ramana Maharishi said may not be understood by many. It is okay. The aim is not to train the world, but address those who are attracted to his words.

Spirituality, especially Advaitha Sambradhayam is not all logic. It‘s goal is transcendental. One has to do practice with the belief of attaining Moksha.

By the way, there is no meritocracy in Spirituality. It is all for the uplift of the ‘common man’. One does not need to be educated, or in the common sense need to be intelligent to understand one’s Guru’s teachings. If one does have questions, one is encouraged to ask and get answers to those questions.

Again, my postings and other similar postings about other Masters here are not for teaching any fundamentals of Spirituality to anyone. They are for the already initiated/followers of specific Gurus.

All right Sir. Makes sense.

 

[sravna]

I do fully agree with you Sravna.
I have noticed in many spiritual groups when higher ideals are discussed honestly most of us might need a detailed explanation.

So I do agree with what you wrote.
Initially when I read the answer that there are No Others..I myself thought " how practical is this?"

It didnt give me answers right away though after some contemplation I linked verses from most religious texts to form an understanding.

So I do agree with you.
At the same time we do have to ask ourselves, how many of us treat others as vasudhaiva kutumbakam as in there are no others and how many of us get treated in the same manner as others?
Honestly I guess we might write well here but practiclly we might not practicing what we preach at the same time whatever we write should have an explanation.

Those who surrender to a Guru might have a guru shishya connection which allows inner engineering to take place.

But for the rest of us , we might need some guidance as you have suggested.

I believe philosophies such as Advaita though perfectly truthful in my opinion are very difficult to grasp. It is not the fault of the philosophy or the faults of those who teach. It is just that mind needs to be at the right state to grasp them. In that sense I think there is meritocracy in spirituality though I am not using merit in its negative connotation. Everyone ultimately learns the truths though meritocracy is more an illusion but nevertheless exists

Advaita and the teachings of those such as Ramana maharishi and Krishnamurthy requires an advanced state of mind. My point is almost none of us are in that league. So you may ask ' is there any utility in their teachings? Yes apart from a handful few who really are able to benefit from them at the inner level there is a real practical utility because all truths have practical use. If one understands them well enough it can be turned in to Science and even technology by applying them. That's where I find the greatest use of the teachings of our great masters at this point of time.

 

[sravna]

One more relevant point I would like to make. Common man can vibe better when although the philosophy is high it is said in a way that strikes chord with him.

Just now I was listening to tamil song from the movie Ejamanan. The song is wife singing Oru nalum unai maravatha inithana varam vendum. I was able to vibe with that substance million times more at the inner level than when I read philosophical texts.

 

[KRS]

One more relevant point I would like to make. Common man can vibe better when although the philosophy is high it is said in a way that strikes chord with him.

Just now I was listening to tamil song from the movie Ejamanan. The song is wife singing Oru nalum unai maravatha inithana varam vendum. I was able to vibe with that substance million times more at the inner level than when I read philosophical texts.

Sir,

Absolutely. This is why we have 330 million Devathas, each representing the functions of our body and mind. Hence so many ways to purify one’s mind.

 

[sravna]

Sir,

Absolutely. This is why we have 330 million Devathas, each representing the functions of our body and mind. Hence so many ways to purify one’s mind.

Yes Sir. I do respect this space. I understand it is for like minded people. I enjoyed and learnt from the engagements with you

 

[renuka]

One more relevant point I would like to make. Common man can vibe better when although the philosophy is high it is said in a way that strikes chord with him.

Just now I was listening to tamil song from the movie Ejamanan. The song is wife singing Oru nalum unai maravatha inithana varam vendum. I was able to vibe with that substance million times more at the inner level than when I read philosophical texts.

Honestly Sravna...thats how true spirituality functions.
We receive messages without the need of philosophy.

Ramana Maharishi did say.." When philosophy stops, spirituality begins"


Happy to note this Sravna..its a sign of spirituality.

 

[Iyest]

Some parents do really want children to head towards realization but not children seek that.

I guess individual karma too counts.

On my part I tell my son to seek the middle path because eventually its balance that leads us to the straight path.

He seems to understand it but in more of a Buddhist way without a personal God but for me I pursue the middle path with the concept of God.

Renuka ji, this is how people who are a bit seriously interested approach it. We are not in total pursuit of worldly pleasures. We try to strike a balance or compromise between spirituality and worldly life. Because it is not easy to give up all ideas and attachments at once. That is where we are but it is a long and arduous road ahead.

A relevant passage follows.

 

[Iyest]

The actual process of Atmavichara requires painstaking, continuous, intense effort sustained pertinaciously over decades. People want a cheaper substitute but there is none - yet some people claim to have found an effortless way to Realisation and are successfully vending it to others in return for money and other forms of gratification, which is nothing but clever practice of pure deceit.

- Aham Sphurana, page 125

 

[sravna]

Honestly Sravna...thats how true spirituality functions.
We receive messages without the need of philosophy.

Ramana Maharishi did say.." When philosophy stops, spirituality begins"


Happy to note this Sravna..its a sign of spirituality.

Dear Sir,

Thank you. Very true words. Spirituality can function with direct intuitions without the need for introspection. The route of introspecting and arriving at truths is another way to knowledge. There are people in between.

Knowledge progresses in the physical world by sharing ideas and concurring.

We need to put together as Renuka says all the nuggets and look for the underlying truths.

 

[sravna]

Dear Sir,

Thank you. Very true words. Spirituality can function with direct intuitions without the need for introspection. The route of introspecting and arriving at truths is another way to knowledge. There are people in between.

Knowledge progresses in the physical world by sharing ideas and concurring.

We need to put together as Renuka says all the nuggets and look for the underlying truths.

Made a botch up. The last message should be to Renuka. Sorry Renuka!

 

[renuka]

Renuka ji, this is how people who are a bit seriously interested approach it. We are not in total pursuit of worldly pleasures. We try to strike a balance or compromise between spirituality and worldly life. Because it is not easy to give up all ideas and attachments at once. That is where we are but it is a long and arduous road ahead.

A relevant passage follows.

I am not into worldly pleasures as in desires.
In fact I am giving away lots of my things and my only plan I have is to exit the world having nothing in my name anymore.

Money is starting to feel like a burden.
In fact I have undone all my fixed deposits as I do not want interest growing in the bank.

There is freedom in not letting material grow.

 

[renuka]

Made a botch up. The last message should be to Renuka. Sorry Renuka!

I dont know why edit function is not working.

 

[sravna]

I am not into worldly pleasures as in desires.
In fact I am giving away lots of my things and my only plan I have is to exit the world having nothing in my name anymore.

Money is starting to feel like a burden.
In fact I have undone all my fixed deposits as I do not want interest growing in the bank.

There is freedom in not letting material grow.

Profound words and wisdom. Money indeed as with material things can control you. People do not realise they are not the ones in control. Not focussing on money and things material after your needs are reasonably met is the best way to achieve and sustain peace and happiness.

 

[Iyest]

Honestly Sravna...thats how true spirituality functions.
We receive messages without the need of philosophy.

Ramana Maharishi did say.." When philosophy stops, spirituality begins"

I think Bhagwan said " Philosophy starts when psychology ends, spirituality starts when philosophy ends".

 

[Iyest]

I am not into worldly pleasures as in desires.
In fact I am giving away lots of my things and my only plan I have is to exit the world having nothing in my name anymore.

Money is starting to feel like a burden.
In fact I have undone all my fixed deposits as I do not want interest growing in the bank.

There is freedom in not letting material grow.

Yes that is a start. Attachments are to things, people, and ideas. Freedom from our attachments to people and ideas are much more challenging.

 

[sravna]

I would put it this way. Every opportunity that you miss making yourself materially richer has the potential to make you spiritually rich if you try to learn the right lessons on why you failed. If the failures repeat and you keep learning you will be spiritually rich enough and stop caring for material riches. So it is a win win situation as it applies to any level of your material pursuit. The catch is you should keep your mind open to learning at any level.

Of course there are people who are very successful at a material and rarely fail in a big way. They are of different make up of mind and their evolution follows a different path.

Sooner or later the common and fundamental lesson learnt will be you have to care or take care of the interests of others.

 

[sravna]

Here is my view on attachment. When you are attached to spiritual pursuits or do it with spiritual import it is what Mr.TBT calls as detached attachment. This is perfectly fine. Gods and Goddesses display detached attachment whether it be of Krishna's attachment to dharma or to Radha.

People in my view should not think that attachment is all wrong.

 

[sravna]

If what are typically considered immoral such as lying, killing etc are considered ok in the context of higher dharma so is attachment when it is a spiritual or higher pursuit.

 

[KRS]

If what are typically considered immoral such as lying, killing etc are considered ok in the context of higher dharma so is attachment when it is a spiritual or higher pursuit.

Sir,

Wanton killing and deliberate lying to profit from in any way are always adharmic and there can be no higher dharma attached to them. Only killing for self defense or for other dharmic purposes such as for food or for lawful punishments have higher dharma attached to them. Lying or correctly termed as fibbing is allowed if it helps not to hurt that person.

I know this is what you meant, but just wanted to clarify.

 

[KRS]

I am not into worldly pleasures as in desires.
In fact I am giving away lots of my things and my only plan I have is to exit the world having nothing in my name anymore.

Money is starting to feel like a burden.
In fact I have undone all my fixed deposits as I do not want interest growing in the bank.

There is freedom in not letting material grow.

Dear Srimathi Dr. Renuka Ji,

Who am I to give anyone worldly advice? But yet, because I have known you for a long time, I am writing this.

Please disregard the following if you think that it is ill advised.

Your posting struck a chord in me as I also, some time back resolved to exit this world leaving nothing. But then, I fell in to Virakthi, and that led in to mild depression, which I eventually got out of. I realized that I can not force myself to be someone that I am not. I want to leave somethings for my children and grand children. So since then, I am trying my best to cultivate detached attachment.

You know you are indeed fortunate that Goddess Lakshmi has smiled upon you. Money in itself is not evil. Prosperity is necessary for a society to function well.

Wealth is created through money. So such a creation is reflected through interest and growth of money.

I know some view accruing of interest as not proper. Our religion does not subscribe to this idea.

Why not let the interest accrue and if you do not like it, give it away to society as scholarship, food etc.? The key is to doing it anonymously, and distributing it as Pradadam from your God.

Hope this does not offend.

 

[sravna]

Sir,

Wanton killing and deliberate lying to profit from in any way are always adharmic and there can be no higher dharma attached to them. Only killing for self defense or for other dharmic purposes such as for food or for lawful punishments have higher dharma attached to them. Lying or correctly termed as fibbing is allowed if it helps not to hurt that person.

I know this is what you meant, but just wanted to clarify.

Yes Sir. Like what Krishna exhorted Arjuna to do.

 

[renuka]

Dear Srimathi Dr. Renuka Ji,

Who am I to give anyone worldly advice? But yet, because I have known you for a long time, I am writing this.

Please disregard the following if you think that it is ill advised.

Your posting struck a chord in me as I also, some time back resolved to exit this world leaving nothing. But then, I fell in to Virakthi, and that led in to mild depression, which I eventually got out of. I realized that I can not force myself to be someone that I am not. I want to leave somethings for my children and grand children. So since then, I am trying my best to cultivate detached attachment.

You know you are indeed fortunate that Goddess Lakshmi has smiled upon you. Money in itself is not evil. Prosperity is necessary for a society to function well.

Wealth is created through money. So such a creation is reflected through interest and growth of money.

I know some view accruing of interest as not proper. Our religion does not subscribe to this idea.

Why not let the interest accrue and if you do not like it, give it away to society as scholarship, food etc.? The key is to doing it anonymously, and distributing it as Pradadam from your God.

Hope this does not offend.

Thank you dear KRS ji,
I do agree with you.
In my country we have two types of banking systems.

So one can opt to have a different banking where interest does not grow.


During the covid 19 pandemic at one time nothing could move.
At one time even money had no purchasing power.

So you do not really feel money has much value.
During the pandemic we all learnt to live with minimum stuff because we could not go out to buy as much.

All these changed my perspective.

 

[renuka]

Dear Srimathi Dr. Renuka Ji,

Who am I to give anyone worldly advice? But yet, because I have known you for a long time, I am writing this.

Please disregard the following if you think that it is ill advised.

Your posting struck a chord in me as I also, some time back resolved to exit this world leaving nothing. But then, I fell in to Virakthi, and that led in to mild depression, which I eventually got out of. I realized that I can not force myself to be someone that I am not. I want to leave somethings for my children and grand children. So since then, I am trying my best to cultivate detached attachment.

You know you are indeed fortunate that Goddess Lakshmi has smiled upon you. Money in itself is not evil. Prosperity is necessary for a society to function well.

Wealth is created through money. So such a creation is reflected through interest and growth of money.

I know some view accruing of interest as not proper. Our religion does not subscribe to this idea.

Why not let the interest accrue and if you do not like it, give it away to society as scholarship, food etc.? The key is to doing it anonymously, and distributing it as Pradadam from your God.

Hope this does not offend.

Just to add...I dont view money as evil.
Its neutral.
It depends on the user.

In fact the Arabic word for currency Deenaar has an interesting etymology.

Its made up of two words.
Deen( religion) and Naar( fire)

If Deenar(currency) is used right it leads to Deen( religion) but if it used wrongly it leads to Naar( hell fire).

So as you said, money is not evil.