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A girl's attitude

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Dear friends
I wanted to discuss about this girl(women?) who is a close relative of my husband. She is 26 yrs, well educated, employed for a MNC,placed at Mumbai. She is born and brought up there. The family started looking for a suitable alliance since she was 21, but cannot find the right person. Every proposal(all our family members are keenly looking for a groom) we bring along she turns down. She is very particular that she has to talk( pazhagi parkkanum) to the boy for a while to see if they can get along before giving her consent. She is not keen about our culture or tradition(doesn't want to wear thirumangalyam all the time, as an example). Now it is really getting difficult to find a match for her who can be modern and not keen about our customs etc. Frankly speaking, I hate her attitude and do not want to recommend any alliance for her. Am I right or wrong?

Bagya
 
Sow. Sri. Bagya,

If you hate her attitude, you may be wrong. If you do not like to recommend any more alliance for her, then it is your right; there is no right or wrong to that.

I know one boy very well. 28 yrs, very healthy, professional engineer. He was the same; 'pazhagi parkkanum' policy. There are many of us who like to rent in a suburb and check out the neighbourhood before buying a house; a house which may be sold in a few years down the track to buy a bigger and better house. Spouse is not exactly a relationship that can be changed if found not agreeable down the track. Somehow I like that girl's spirit. I wish her all the best.
 
'Ilamai Thimir' is in everybody. When we are very young, highly qualified and also earn a decent/fabulous sum, we expect the entire world must listen to us and they must be at our feet. (Indha ulagame en kaaladiyin keezh kidakka vendum).

This is common to both the genders, especially from metro background.

I remember to have shared the experience of one of my cousins in some other thread. He studied M.Sc. (Physics) and after coming out with flying colours, he joined Indian Telephone Industries, Bangalore (ITI was at its best, then).

Later, he was sent to USA on deputation. After a few years work there, he left ITI and joined some MNC at USA.

He marriage took place when he was 27 or 28 and it was an arranged one, with the elders from both sides deciding things.

Both he and his newly wedded wife went to USA. Then only real problems started.
My cousin was very pious, orthodox, very conventional (not conservative) and soft spoken. Yet, he could nicely fit into the western culture, without forgetting his roots.

The girl found faults with him repeatedly, on some silly grounds -

1. He does 'Sandhya Vandhanam' even on a foreign land and it doesn't befit his
occupation, educational level and his age.
2. He is unable to mingle freely with others, by smoking and consuming alcohol
(toast), is another charge of hers.
3. She started teasing and tormenting him, on petty issues everyday and the lives
of both became hell.

Finally, they got separated by divorce out of mutual consent, after a few months of life. No one till this date knows if their marriage was consummated at all.

After some deep shock and distrust, he came out of them and remarried after 2 years. He now lives a happy life, with his family.

I shall post one poem that I had written about this false notion about one's freedom and modern outlook, which you please go through. It almost covers most of the points I discussed here and also the dilemma faced by the youth from rural areas, who go to metros/abroad for the first time, for education and employment.

Some part of the blame lies on the parents too. But such rebel youths, I have observed, are mostly dogmatic and incorrigible.
 
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Dear friends
I wanted to discuss about this girl(women?) who is a close relative of my husband. She is 26 yrs, well educated, employed for a MNC,placed at Mumbai. She is born and brought up there. The family started looking for a suitable alliance since she was 21, but cannot find the right person. Every proposal(all our family members are keenly looking for a groom) we bring along she turns down. She is very particular that she has to talk( pazhagi parkkanum) to the boy for a while to see if they can get along before giving her consent. She is not keen about our culture or tradition(doesn't want to wear thirumangalyam all the time, as an example). Now it is really getting difficult to find a match for her who can be modern and not keen about our customs etc. Frankly speaking, I hate her attitude and do not want to recommend any alliance for her. Am I right or wrong?

Bagya

It is not uncommon to see such a girl particularly in a city like Mumbai. I am not at all surprised.

If at all anybody to be blamed, it is the parents/elders of the girl. I always support women empowerment. Getting a good education and earning on their own from good corporates is the order of the day.But at the same time, we have to ensure that it doesn't go to their head and this case parents/elders have failed in their duty.

There are progressive boys in our community and let them contact her and decide the alliance.

All the best
 
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Thanks to all for your immediate response. I also agree with you that her parents to be blamed. Her parents are trying to put her in the right track but are really frustrated at her adamancy. They are visiting many temples and doing pariharams(last year she got engaged and marriage got cancelled in the last minute). Some of her cousins who are happily married and settled are not like her. If education and employment is giving this attitude to girls today, I don't want to think of girls with such an attitude in the next generation.

God, Please help them......

Bagya
 
"VAZHVAI MAAYAM"


Who is right and who is wrong. Whom to be blamed and whom not to be


What is right and what is wrong.....


All these seems to remain puzzled as long as people can not get rid of their ego...


I strongly believe that a girl may have dynamic profile and be independent but should know clearly what husband and wife relationship should be?


A motive of every girl should be to find only the following qualities in her husband


1) Whether he is qualified and exployed well
2) Whether he believes in God and values his culture
3) Whether he loves his wife and his family
4) Whether he is responsible and committed to his duties as a husband and as a father
5) Whether he considers his wife as his best friend.


All other likes and deslikes are personal to every individual and that should not be bothered as long as they are not destructive


Not all individuals are alike. We should know how to get along with our friends, with our colleagues and boviously with our partner.


There are stories of lovers who were in love for 2 years or so and than got married. After marriage they get seperated. Why couldn't they understand each other after having companionship before marriage itself?


Sri Bagya ji,


My humble suggestion...


Don't hate that girl. You can advise her and suggest her, but don't ignore her.

If at all you could come to know a guy who don't like to follow his religion and customs, who don't like to put on Punal, who don't like to go to temple and in many ways a broad minded hero, than just refer to her.
 
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As I said, both boys and girls exhibiting similar qualities exist. So, without knowing fully, we cannot blame one side.

But, the story I had written in my previous post was real and well known to me. The girl wantonly walked out of the marital bond, accusing her husband of being 'patham pasali' (outdated), 'kattu petti' (conservative) and not in sync with modern world.

I have posted the poem in a separate, new thread. It echoes my concerns about the modern youth in general, who want to ape the west in unwanted and wrong aspects/areas.
 
I feel that the girl should have the chance. In first place, she should be able to seek an alliance of her own for பழகிப் பார்க்கனும். She will be more successful if she knows one already. I also feel that, the experience comes when you actually do it, from the mistakes you make, the more you learn from it and the more experience you get. But, if the power comes out of financial security and if the parents are ignored then, I am worried, even after choosing the Mr Right, there will be enormous amount of attitude reconciliation needed. All the best.
 
This argument 'we must understand each other, before marriage' is an old one.

Before marriage, just as in the case of a love affair, each wants to impress the other by exhibiting only their positive sides. Many a time, there is some pretence and also the artificial and unnaturally good behaviour on the part of both accompany such pretence.

Reasoning ability is incapacitated by clouded vision and if physical looks are so attractive, it will push other important things to secondary position and will even make them look unimportant or irrelevant.

The experience and wisdom gained by the elders in their own life, especially by way of disappointments, betrayal by a trusted friend or a relative or a colleague, and failures
and the lessons learnt out of them can never be understood by the youth.

Successful love marriages are far less in number, may be less than 15 % roughly.
But in arranged marriages, the true love and wisdom of many elders from both the families are at work and hence, the failure rate is less (say less than 15%).

When infatuation is perceived as real love, after marriage, it will vanish within no time.

I wish to emphasize repeatedly, the fault lies in both boys and girls and I do not want to blame only one side.
 
Nowadays we have the ease of MSN, Skype etc for making video conversation. Quite easily this 'pazhagi paarkkanum' desire can be fulfilled to a degree without making any physical meetings. The girl and the boy can get quite a lot of information about each other before actually meeting in person. After an actual metting in person, these Skype etc. conversation may bring more meaning. Why not decide after this type of MSN, Skype conversations? I am not saying such methods are fool-proof; but, can be worth the try.
 
This argument 'we must understand each other, before marriage' is an old one.

Before marriage, just as in the case of a love affair, each wants to impress the other by exhibiting only their positive sides. Many a time, there is some pretence and also the artificial and unnaturally good behaviour on the part of both accompany such pretence.

Reasoning ability is incapacitated by clouded vision and if physical looks are so attractive, it will push other important things to secondary position and will even make them look unimportant or irrelevant.

The experience and wisdom gained by the elders in their own life, especially by way of disappointments, betrayal by a trusted friend or a relative or a colleague, and failures
and the lessons learnt out of them can never be understood by the youth.

Successful love marriages are far less in number, may be less than 15 % roughly.
But in arranged marriages, the true love and wisdom of many elders from both the families are at work and hence, the failure rate is less (say less than 15%).

When infatuation is perceived as real love, after marriage, it will vanish within no time.

I wish to emphasize repeatedly, the fault lies in both boys and girls and I do not want to blame only one side.


Well said Sri, Pannvalan ji
 
Even after "pazhagi paarthal" how can one be sure one is getting the right choice? How many "test and throw" will continue? One will also be ii the receiving end of rejection .

Many of the present employees , loyal and dedicated to the employer, of long years service,were taken by just a few minutes' interview.

Parents of most of us lived happily(living happily) after marriage , married without any "Pazhagi paarkal".

"Pazhagi paarthu ,pazhagi paarthu ,atharkappuram vaazhkai aarambithaal, antha vaazkayum udane pazhagi pulichu poyudum"

Oru paanai Soru patham paarka oru soru porum.Paanai soru muzhuthum thottupaarka vendiyathillai

Life does not have rehearsals-only performance.


Greetings
 
while we are discussing a specific 'girl's attitude' here, the same could be expressed as any boy's attitude too.

the players are are the girl and her family. to me it appears, that from the girl's viewpoint, the family has no credibility. assuming ofcourse that she wants to marry a guy at all?

in another thread, praveen has mentioned that he is going to make upgrades, but does not know what. look at the kudos he gets from other members. none of them know what he will do and how the site will end up. but he has a credibility factor which is strong among us, and we are assured that whatever comes, it will be best for the forum.

maybe through past experience the girl does not have such confidence in the parents. hence here insistence on getting to know the guys before marriage. this is a time consuming open ended process, and not sure, under the aegis of semi arranged marriages, whether it will work.

a love marriage in the west, works in this order: physical attraction, gettting to know, intimacy, too much intimacy, marriage (or breakup) or marriage (& breakup) or marriage (live happily everafter).

all along the back door to part is always open informally. people on an average, do not drop each other off, like underwear here. they are little more aware of each other's feelings. what may be lacking here, is the will power to ride out the rough patches.

has anyone enquired about her sexual orientation? i know that this is something that we do not talk about in our circles. but this is mumbai we are talking about, and what happens in new york or london, i presume, happens in mumbai too.

it is in our psyche that once a girl or boy reaches the 20s they need to be married off. till recently it was the same in the west. of late no one cares. there are people content to live single and spend the entire life without committed partners. they might or might not have affairs or sexual experiences.

for many other folks, there is no time for life partner or family. such is the nature of one's job. it is not a joke, to say, that some people work 7 days a week 18 hours a day. certain types of doctors like pediatricians, i know, put in such long hours. always on call, they have no private life. policemen are another who need to be called up and work odd odd hours

so, to sum up, life's complexities have increased exponentially, with the onset of prosperity in india. welcome to the 21st century. i look back longingly at my dad's days in 1950s through 1980s. he wore his pant/shirt, went to work 8 am; came home 5 pm; reverted to his veshti/banian and hey presto, his lifestyle turned 180 degrees immediately to tradition, sandhyavandhanam, newspaper and food. there is simply no free time to have such an orderly life for many a folks these days.

so many reasons we speculate. all around a poor girl and our desire to get her married off. let her be and let her figure out what she wants for herself and let her go get herself. the family can help out if asked. there is no other choice, it seems to me, at present.

thank you.
 
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Dear sri kunjappu ji
Girls with such an attitude do not take life seriously. If they select their life partner, they may even break their marriage for silly reasons. I think financial independence is important for women but if she leaves the job and sit at home she can understand the mental agony of her parents. I feel sorry for her parents and not her.

Bagya
 
Dear sri kunjappu ji
Girls with such an attitude do not take life seriously. If they select their life partner, they may even break their marriage for silly reasons. I think financial independence is important for women but if she leaves the job and sit at home she can understand the mental agony of her parents. I feel sorry for her parents and not her.

Bagya

bagya,

i hear you. :)

with one marriage age (26) boy and two others slipping into the same status in a few years, my wife and i, have often discussed, our own hangups and expectations, in this ever fast changing world.

i am 59, and i have lived in canada for 37 years. i visit india very often, 3 times in the past 12 months. my extended family was once lower/mid middle class. now through upward mobility, even with inflated land values, they are considerably midtoupper middle class, with a few of them touching the bottom end of being termed 'wealthy'.

mine being a female tended family, i am really and pleasantly surprised, how quickly the girls get hooked. all of them have been love marriages, most within the community and a few other, hindus but out of state or caste.

the exception has been arranged marriage. granted these are all urban brought up, though only chennai. chennai has come a long way, in my opinion, from the old madras mores, where all lights went off at 9 pm and everyone was awake at 5 am.

in this context, here i am, thousands of miles away, and watching many a friends of mine, similarly aged, waiting for their children to find spouses. most of the children of TBs who grew up here, have opted to find their own mates.

almost all of them marry out of caste, but within the hindu fold. caste has become meaningless here and comfortably shed, even among the grandsons of vadhyars, within a blink of eye.

but there are a significant number who are single. well into their 30s and within the peek of 40. at that age, my grandmother was a GRANDMOTHER. here we have girls who are comfortably single, and the friends do not ask the gossipy query with a smirk என்ன எதாவது நிச்சியம் ஆச்சா?

because, folks have found that we are all in the same predicament. ie we do not have any say or control over the marital status of our children.

maybe, as parents in our 50s and 60s, we need to get out of that mindset, that our duties are not completed till we get our children married, and get to hold the grandchild.

if such happens, good. if such does not happen equally good. because these things are not within our control, and to pine to those yearnings, cause only misery and ultimate destruction of health, relationship and peace of mind. and most serious of all, the feeling that we as a parent has failed to do our duty. nothing close to truth in this. :)

it does not take much to verbal sympathy for the parents of the said girl. it takes much more, to empathize and give them consolation in the face of reality, that an unmarried daughter is not the end of the world and that their மானம் is intact and safe. after all, in our community, is not loss of face the ultimate shame?

in that context, the girl's parents, trapped as they are, in their own mental cage, have my most endearing sympathy. i think, it is upto you bagya, and similar enlightened soul in your family, to move past dwelling on the unpleasant aspect and proceed to educate the parents towards realities and help them maintain their sense of dignity and self respect in the சபை.

better still, make an effort to educate the சபை. the சபை is inherently critical and cruel. such is the nature of all groups. they need the underdogs to vent their frustrations. it takes a better human being to make an effort to uplift the சபை to better and enlightened standards. bagya, perhaps, if you will, you can take up the challenge within the சபை that is your extended family.

இவன் ரொம்ப easiaya சொல்றான், you might say. who is he to tell me, also you might say. all valid questions, for which i have no legitimate answers. only one thought comes to me.. if you would and could look at the mirror of your future, challenges to morbid community mores, will come to hit you at some time, sooner or later. at that point, you need all the allies that you can muster within your family சபை. so, why not earn some IOUs starting now?

such an initiative on your part, is not charity. nor is it self serving. it is the right thing to do, in the face of current realities. the changes, they are moving fast. we constantly need to prowl and seek solutions for challenges, and not be overwhelmed by the monstrosity of some of these, as they are suchly perceived in our 20th century mindset.

hope i am making some sense. best wishes to you and your extend family. :)
 
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has anyone enquired about her sexual orientation?

Are you kidding?

BTW, the story Smt. Bhagya has described is the exact same story of my niece. When she was here in the US, I indirectly asked this exact question.

I told her that I will support whatever choice she would make, even if she wants to marry another girl. She laughed heartily and promised she will soon get married. Three months later, after her return to India, she called me and told me that she has decided to get married to her NB boyfriend. I was the first one she made the announcement. Not even her parents knew she had made that decision even though they were aware of the possibility.

She trusted me more than her chittappa, grand parents, and even her own aththai, while I am only her athimber.

Develop trust with this poor girl. She deserves love more than righteous anger.

When my parents and uncles got married they did not even know that their marriages have been fixed. They were instructed by their parents to come and get married. When it was my time, they asked the boys and girls whether they likes the partner they had selected. Now we have come to the next stage.

My mother did not even graduate from school. My wife finiched BA and was then ready for கரண்டி office (I don't say this with any relish). Now, we have girls professionally educated and making contributions to the society equal to the boys.

With a completely changed environment we still have the old model for the most meaningful of commitments, that too one that we hope will last a life time. It is the solemn responsibility of the parents and the grownups to develop a new paradigm, instead of getting upset with the girl or boy.

Change is constant, get with the program.

Cheers!
 
'Pazhagi Parkiradhu' as in 'getting to know each one better' is absolutely par for course in the times that we live in. I dont see any reason to be critical of this girl.

Today i dont think any self-respecting girl would get committed to someone just by serving bhajji-sojji or singing a varnam. Bhajji-sojji is way too oily and in the times of intellectual compositions such as 'En peru meenakumari' varnam is passe.

Increasingly the career of a woman is delinked from her husband. Hence it is very important to know each other to create that "space" in the relationship without which they cannot manage both their personal and professional lives. It should be noted that Indra Nooyis, Chanda Kochars are successful mothers too apart from being the head honchos of large corporates. It is very important to know the mentality of the person whom you are marrying, their perspectives on giving space in relationship, the breadth and depth of their outlook. These are the important aspects of knowing each other ; it is not who's the fan of Ajith and Vijay.

It would be terrible for a girl to get into a relationship with someone even if he is of a very high intellect and be just an arm-candy. Salman Rushdie anyone ? He's gone ahead and married 5 or 6 times, just within striking reach of Liz Taylor, to replace one arm-candy with another.

It is very important for a woman to get a partner who doesnt begrudge her success.

I think that the girl in question is just doing fine and i hope she would find someone to her liking very soon.

Gautam Gambhir is still unmarried Ms Bagya :)
 
Dear sri kunjappu ji
Girls with such an attitude do not take life seriously. If they select their life partner, they may even break their marriage for silly reasons. I think financial independence is important for women but if she leaves the job and sit at home she can understand the mental agony of her parents. I feel sorry for her parents and not her.

Bagya

I think you can try the experiment of Prof. Nara. Somebody who can have broader outlook and close to her from childhood can talk to her and understand her position. Probably people belonging to her age group may be better. She may listen to same age group relatives/friends than the elders in the family.

பாடுகிற மாட்டை பாடி கறக்கணும்
ஆடுகிற மாட்டை ஆடி கறக்கனும்

Somebody who talks her language can understand her and may end up in better results. Probably she may change after marriage also.

All the best
 
Folks,

This is a thought provoking thread. This has direct implications to our culture. Please take my 2 cents........

1. No one should question a person's wish on his/her mate. We are confusing the arranged marriages of yesteryears with today's marriages. In the past, it was an alliance between two families with the groom and the bride being before teens. Today, we are conducting 'arranged marriages' bet ween twenty plus year olds. By this age, one would hope that the people involved at least have developed an adult attitude towards the marriage - that at least they know who they are not attracted towards.

2. This confusion about a marriage being a contributory factor towards a parents' happiness needs to be examined. Only when our community starts understanding that the marriage and love are within the total purview of their adult children, we will then not have the issues stated in this thread.

3. While I appreciate Sri Pannvalan's citing of a particular case, I having been in the USA for a long time, can say that the girl in his example can be interpreted in other ways. I have seen cases similar to what he has cited and there is definitely the other side of the story.

4. It is time that we shed this feeling of looking at our girls as somehow subordinate to our boys. They know what they are doing. We better adjust to this new situation where they are empowered.

Regards,
KRS
 
No life without compromises....

Life is all about adjustments for every one.

To have better social life, personal life and professional life one should have flexible mind set to adjust and make compromises.

A girl may find a perfect guy, but that guy many not find her right for him and vise versa.

The process of detailed filtrations may never serve the purpose.

Who knows the boys and girls who are too particular about everything to achieve perfect ness in life as smart and intelligent independent folks may able to find Mr. Right and Ms. Right for each other at the age of 45 or 50 when the real challenge would make their life spiritless and tasteless.

I believe, we as educated folks, broad minded and well informed folks should know the real meaning of life and should have the tendencies to bend our self whenever and wherever required.

By these adjustments if at all unfortunately we become fool, we should be prepared to accept what we have and strive to make it better to our level best possible and conclude a suitable solution.

One should also agree – “ LOVE STARTS AFTER MARRIAGE”
 
"NAMO NAMAHA." bagya ji it is very common nowadays for the girls to be too much of liking towards western culture especially {those who are living in abroad.} i hope she may wear the maangalyam at the important ceremonial times.it is good that she wants to exchange her views with her would be partner.hope she may get an alliance to suit her ideals.let us pray for her best of luck and for better way of thinking views.with all the best.with namaskars v.lalithakumar "SHIVO YO NAAMA ROOPAPYAM DHEVI YAA SARVA MANGALAM. NAMA SAMASTHA PUMSAM SARVADHICK JAYAMANGALAM."
 
Dear bhagya, I feel that this girl is one who is walking too fast for this generation to understand and estimate. Even we the so called educated modern thinking people stop or stoop at a time when it comes to own cases . If we all say true to heart how many of us are happy with the life we have received? Have we not seen (both male/female) saying THALAIVIDHI and console one self. It is accepting the situation and living with that . I know many cases where girls preferred some but due to compellsion from parents married to others. with pranams
 
We should feel happy with whatever we have.........

If we are not satisfied with some thing in a partner, we should look into others life where there are worst circumstances making the life of couples miserable. No only the couple’s life but the life of their innocent children.

If husband and wife could not compromise than every children of that family would be in acute pain in every part of their life.
 
We should feel happy with whatever we have.........

If we are not satisfied with some thing in a partner, we should look into others life where there are worst circumstances making the life of couples miserable. Not only the couple’s life but the life of their innocent children.

If husband and wife could not compromise than every children of that family would be in acute pain in every part of their life.
 
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