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Yet another taboo marriage

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?????
Nope..the secret is not what you are thinking about.
The story is about love,desire,passion,a curse,immortality,reincarnation and helplessness.
May be one day I will write this story and make you the Maama living across the street who keeps starting at the female lead in this story!LOL

You have repeated what all I had said but the words are different. And the Maama part of it made me laugh heartily. My dear, you do not know what is my age. For being a maama if you do not take age into account and only the subjects on which some one writes, then may be you can call me a thaatha. Take your pick. I would only say this: I am not as old as your mind thinks. LOL.
Take your time to write the story. I will still be there,the young man,living across the street to nod in appreciation of myself for having predicted the twist correctly. LOL.
 
your post makes a good reading
I found the lines -"everyone searches for something in his lifetime and does not get to it. search does not end and only lifes" journey ends. every life is a lonely life"-interesting
there is only pathos and negativety in your post.
most fulfill many of their hopes and aspirations. fail in some ventures and succeed in many.have periods of great happiness and some sorrow in life
it is a package. at the end of it all . has it been a worthwhile journey?
loneliness and misery is only for those who wantonly opt for it. otherwise it is only greenery and
good living. cheer up .it is not as bad as you think.

If anything, I was just brutally frank. Personally, God had been very kind to me and I missed nothing in my life. I have nothing to demand from this life any more. But to understand what I said requires you to lift yourself to another level.

Yesterday I travelled by the suburban train. There was no noise at all because there does not exist the scientific truth called friction, there does not exist air through which sound waves travel, there is nothing called auditory nerves in the ears of human beings. I was in my own world and that was a noiseless calm and serene world without any negativity. I did not have to lament to anyone that there is loud noise and so there was no pathos either. LOL.

If loneliness is only for those who wantonly opt for it, pray tell me what is it like when you feel pain of a cut in your hand which has gone sore. Is that pain the same as what you feel when you sprain your muscle? Is it the same like when you were knocked on your head by your elementary school teacher for some prank you played on your friend? Or is it the same like when you were spanked by your mother for irritating her? Just tell me what is pain? In a few sentences, which should make me feel your pain just exactly the same way you feel it. And if you find this difficult at least tell me what is red or blue? What exactly is the impact it makes on your brain? How far can you be sure that it is the same impact on me too when I look at the same color? With the impact being different we can still communicate with each other about blue and green as the world has been doing for millennium. But the fact remains that I do not know what is blue for you and whether it is the same as mine impact-wise. And I can extend this to many other experiences too like beauty, fragrance etc., etc., So do you understand that you are a separate entity locked tightly inside a container called the body while I am an unconnected another entity locked tightly inside another container. I am lonely. I know you too are. I know everyone here is. That is the way the world is. We can not do anything about it. Rise to a higher level and deny this please. LOL.
 
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Which age is one talking about? Chronological age, physical age, mental age, emotional age?

For the purposes of this thread let us say that if somebody still has the capability of trying out a "taboo marriage", then they are young. Otherwise they could be maama, maami, taatha, paati etc.


You have repeated what all I had said but the words are different. And the Maama part of it made me laugh heartily. My dear, you do not know what is my age. For being a maama if you do not take age into account and only the subjects on which some one writes, then may be you can call me a thaatha. Take your pick. I would only say this: I am not as old as your mind thinks. LOL.
Take your time to write the story. I will still be there,the young man,living across the street to nod in appreciation of myself for having predicted the twist correctly. LOL.
 
You have repeated what all I had said but the words are different. And the Maama part of it made me laugh heartily. My dear, you do not know what is my age. For being a maama if you do not take age into account and only the subjects on which some one writes, then may be you can call me a thaatha. Take your pick. I would only say this: I am not as old as your mind thinks. LOL.
Take your time to write the story. I will still be there,the young man,living across the street to nod in appreciation of myself for having predicted the twist correctly. LOL.

I am planning to write this story soon ...I might want to write a book in the future..a English version and a Sanskrit Version.

Most Sanskrit story books are kind of insipid....its always some goody goody stuff and not some heart racing,adrenaline pumping,testosterone flooding story that can make a Maama feel young again!LOL
 
If anything, I was just brutally frank. Personally, God had been very kind to me and I missed nothing in my life. I have nothing to demand from this life any more. But to understand what I said requires you to lift yourself to another level.

Yesterday I travelled by the suburban train. There was no noise at all because there does not exist the scientific truth called friction, there does not exist air through which sound waves travel, there is nothing called auditory nerves in the ears of human beings. I was in my own world and that was a noiseless calm and serene world without any negativity. I did not have to lament to anyone that there is loud noise and so there was no pathos either. LOL.

If loneliness is only for those who wantonly opt for it, pray tell me what is it like when you feel pain of a cut in your hand which has gone sore. Is that pain the same as what you feel when you sprain your muscle? Is it the same like when you were knocked on your head by your elementary school teacher for some prank you played on your friend? Or is it the same like when you were spanked by your mother for irritating her? Just tell me what is pain? In a few sentences, which should make me feel your pain just exactly the same way you feel it. And if you find this difficult at least tell me what is red or blue? What exactly is the impact it makes on your brain? How far can you be sure that it is the same impact on me too when I look at the same color? With the impact being different we can still communicate with each other about blue and green as the world has been doing for millennium. But the fact remains that I do not know what is blue for you and whether it is the same as mine impact-wise. And I can extend this to many other experiences too like beauty, fragrance etc., etc., So do you understand that you are a separate entity locked tightly inside a container called the body while I am an unconnected another entity locked tightly inside another container. I am lonely. I know you too are. I know everyone here is. That is the way the world is. We can not do anything about it. Rise to a higher level and deny this please. LOL.
vaagmiji
I am very happy at my level . You perhaps can raise to higher levels and be as lonely as you desire to be.I do not buy your container theory of body and soul. heart stop beating after which the body is just a carcass to be disposed off in electric crematorium and finally it is ash and nothing more . everything else is gas.
 
I am planning to write this story soon ...I might want to write a book in the future..a English version and a Sanskrit Version.

Most Sanskrit story books are kind of insipid....its always some goody goody stuff and not some heart racing,adrenaline pumping,testosterone flooding story that can make a Maama feel young again!LOL

I am holding my breath. Please release the book soon. I want to read that Mami's book which pumps adrenaline, testosterone etc., through readers blood vessels. A maami knows a maama best whether feeling young or old. LOL.
 
renuka ji
I have told you about age of senior citizens being a sensitive subject. many thathas are claiming mama status and mama behave like twenty year olds. the posts indicate that one particuler gentleman has risen to a very high ,evolved state which you alone can engage with. good luck
 
vaagmiji
I am very happy at my level . You perhaps can raise to higher levels and be as lonely as you desire to be.I do not buy your container theory of body and soul. heart stop beating after which the body is just a carcass to be disposed off in electric crematorium and finally it is ash and nothing more . everything else is gas.

No problem. You need not believe in either the container or the content. But you have skirted my simple questions.

1. Please tell me what is pain.

2. Please explain what is fragrance.

3. Please tell me what is beauty.

4. Please tell me what is Blue, or green or red.

Let me see whether you are able to communicate. If it is a little too much, just try to find out from your wife/daughter whether "her" green is the same as "your" green. LOL.
 
renuka ji
I have told you about age of senior citizens being a sensitive subject. many thathas are claiming mama status and mama behave like twenty year olds. the posts indicate that one particuler gentleman has risen to a very high ,evolved state which you alone can engage with. good luck

Yes. very true. We have twenty/thirty year olds who have already matured into thathas who are resigned to their heart stopping any time. You can be very bold with them. Haven't you heard about the story of the moon and the dog? LOL.
 
Dear Renukaji,

And Kalki Koechlin said this in an extempore rant:

......Dear men, Will you let me stand in your place? Will you let me laugh in your face? Or will you arrest me for blasphemy? Label me as sexy,slutty, loose or crazy? Call me a Basanti, Pinky, Sweetie and whistle at me? And wait a minute! Not just dear men, Dear auntie, Will you stop gawking at me? Dear Didi, will you stop telling me to shut up? Dear ma, will you stop ignoring me? Dear women, Will you, at least, stand up for me?..........

.......Some times I just want an oversized T shirt, boxer shorts, unkempt hair and unibrows. I want armpit hair long enough to plait. I want a clean face without a trace of make up. I want to look the way I do when I wake up. I want to scratch my head, dig my nose, lick my fingers, stretch my legs. And spread my toes. I want to smile with my gums showing, bare my teeth and contort my pretty face into wrinkles. I want my crow's feet to look sexy, Or my salt and pepper hair, or my sunburnt skin. I want to be George Clooney basically but with breasts and a muffin........


And I resonate with her feelings. Poor thing. I would tell her hi kalki dear, you can be all these and do all these without any one being intrusive, if you move into my house as my daughter. You have a soul in me who appreciates and understands your "self" with all its lovely longings and loneliness.

Renuka, you can use part of Kalki's outpourings in your planned book.
 
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..........

.......Some times I just want an oversized T shirt, boxer shorts, unkempt hair and unibrows. I want armpit hair long enough to plait. I want a clean face without a trace of make up. I want to look the way I do when I wake up. I want to scratch my head, dig my nose, lick my fingers, stretch my legs. And spread my toes. I want to smile with my gums showing, bare my teeth and contort my pretty face into wrinkles. I want my crow's feet to look sexy, Or my salt and pepper hair, or my sunburnt skin. I want to be George Clooney basically but with breasts and a muffin........


Yucks! No way!

How horrid!

I always believe one should look well groomed all the while..who wants to look disgustingly disgusting.

I have even missed some functions(without regrets) cos I felt I was having an "ugly" day.I dont want to show up looking my personal worst!

I dont even go to the nearby store with casual clothes..if I want to go out I want to be well groomed...if its casual its going to be smart casual and not some over sized clothes with some dumb ugly shorts or like some females who wear the cotton Nighties outside their home.
I have seen many Indian woman from India do this here..wear cotton nighties to go out to nearby stores! No way man!

One need not use make up but at least one needs to be squeaky clean and neat and tidy and fragrant and with clean habits.

It is totally disgusting to read what that Kalki female wrote!LOL

The heroine in my story has to be a well groomed female..there is no other way.
 
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Yucks! No way!

How horrid!

I always believe one should look well groomed all the while..who wants to look disgustingly disgusting.

I have even missed some functions(without regrets) cos I felt I was having an "ugly" day.I dont want to show up looking my personal worst!

I dont even go to the nearby store with casual clothes..if I want to go out I want to be well groomed...if its casual its going to be smart casual and not some over sized clothes with some dumb ugly shorts or like some females who wear the cotton Nighties outside their home.
I have seen many Indian woman from India do this here..wear cotton nighties to go out to nearby stores! No way man!

One need not use make up but at least one needs to be squeaky clean and neat and tidy and fragrant and with clean habits.

It is totally disgusting to read what that Kalki female wrote!LOL

The heroine in my story has to be a well groomed female..there is no other way.
you know there is something called natural looks
During my morning walk ,I come across a lot of ladies in maxis -many south indians buying milk,veg. and dropping small kids at bus stops. they have no time in the morning for grooming. work comes first.
they heave a sigh of relief when the morning work is over and go back to sleep for couple of hours after these morning rituals. so grooming is out.
 
you know there is something called natural looks
During my morning walk ,I come across a lot of ladies in maxis -many south indians buying milk,veg. and dropping small kids at bus stops. they have no time in the morning for grooming. work comes first.
they heave a sigh of relief when the morning work is over and go back to sleep for couple of hours after these morning rituals. so grooming is out.

Let me be blunt, "natural" or "sloppy" is for people who are lazy or slobs. If a person comes out in their nighties, with out a proper street cloths there must be something wrong, unless their house was on fire or getting flooded. They can be naked inside their house for all I care.
 
I think Kalki Koechlin describes herself rather aptly.

Yes she is desperately trying to milk Bollywood glamour to make as much money as she can.

You can be a slob, but who will pay to see a slob?
 
Let me be blunt, "natural" or "sloppy" is for people who are lazy or slobs. If a person comes out in their nighties, with out a proper street cloths there must be something wrong, unless their house was on fire or getting flooded. They can be naked inside their house for all I care.
prasadji
delhi is a city where nothing much happens before 8.30 -9 am and most have late evenings unlike east or tamilnadu. those who start early are out of work senior citizens who do not get sleep and young mothers who have to send children to school at 7 am. the school timings are decided by school bus availabilty. the same buses cater to office goers later in the day . only kids have to wake up early along with reluctant mothers.In winter it is demanding on the ladies. For milk queues , senior citizens volunteer in many homes to make peace with daughter in laws. call it exploitation if you like
 
prasadji
delhi is a city where nothing much happens before 8.30 -9 am and most have late evenings unlike east or tamilnadu. those who start early are out of work senior citizens who do not get sleep and young mothers who have to send children to school at 7 am. the school timings are decided by school bus availabilty. the same buses cater to office goers later in the day . only kids have to wake up early along with reluctant mothers.In winter it is demanding on the ladies. For milk queues , senior citizens volunteer in many homes to make peace with daughter in laws. call it exploitation if you like
hi

in delhi....mother dairy queue in winter months..its horrible....mad school bus traffic in the mornings.....its natural in delhites.......

so its called...DIL WALON KE SAHAR DILLI HAI....
 
I have another epithet in response to TBS ji's 'Dil Walon Ka Shahar'

but I fear it will not be fit to print in the forum.
 
Yucks! No way!

How horrid!

I always believe one should look well groomed all the while..who wants to look disgustingly disgusting.

I have even missed some functions(without regrets) cos I felt I was having an "ugly" day.I dont want to show up looking my personal worst!

I dont even go to the nearby store with casual clothes..if I want to go out I want to be well groomed...if its casual its going to be smart casual and not some over sized clothes with some dumb ugly shorts or like some females who wear the cotton Nighties outside their home.
I have seen many Indian woman from India do this here..wear cotton nighties to go out to nearby stores! No way man!

One need not use make up but at least one needs to be squeaky clean and neat and tidy and fragrant and with clean habits.

It is totally disgusting to read what that Kalki female wrote!LOL

The heroine in my story has to be a well groomed female..there is no other way.

Lo! what a disappointment!. Well I have learnt to manage such disappointments. I carry on. Thanks for the response. Now I breath easy. I have no expectations about the story to come. Hope kalki too learns to manage her disappointments with the Aunties and Mams.
 
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Lo! what a disappointment!. Well I have learnt to manage such disappointments. I carry on. Thanks for the response. Now I breath easy. I have no expectations about the story to come. Hope kalki too learns to manage her disappointments with the Aunties and Mams.

Vaagmi ji,

Why are you disappointed??

Who would support anyone who advocates being sloppy as being "in".

Sloppiness of appearance equals to sloppiness of mind.

BTW I am no fan of Kalki..I wonder how the hell she got into the film industry that too Bollywood?
She seriously needs a make over and an Orthodontist!
 
Why are you disappointed??
Who would support anyone who advocates being sloppy as being "in".
Sloppiness of appearance equals to sloppiness of mind. BTW I am no fan of Kalki..I wonder how the hell she got into the film industry that too Bollywood? She seriously needs a make over and an Orthodontist!

Renukaji,

I thought I have said whatever I wanted to. But as you are asking I am posting this.

I believe every post here has a context. Kalki’s rant was done extempore when she was asked by an audience to speak about women on a women’s day gathering. All that she said and which you have reproduced from my quote are a girl’s(a poet) protests, expressed loudly to the society which tries to discipline and thereby control her. An example may help. During the Vietnam war, when my friend Mike Redhead quit his classes from MIT and came out on the streets as a hippie shouting “Don’t make war; make love” he did not literally mean what he said in the later part of that slogan. He was just telling his President “ Before ordering the next campaign in the jungles of North Vietnam, before ordering your B-52s to carpet bomb the jungle with napalm in preparation for the assault, go to the front yourself and try to stop one flying bullet from among the many with your bare hands. My dad did that and he died”. Kalki is not coming to the party with plaits hanging from her arm pits with jasmine flowers tied at the tip, she is not going to be sitting there with her hands engaged in digging her nose or scratching her head feverishly. She said that in a context. She said that as a rebellious child shouting at its mother in agony. She said that like my friend Mike asking the President to go and make love. All that Kalki was saying was “please leave me alone Mummy, Auntie, Mam and all you ladies/men of the world”. That was a protest which comes from a soul driven up the wall by the society.

The fact that you did not understand that soul and did not appreciate that stand point was disappointing. Orthodontists and plastic surgeons do great work no doubt. Every human being would and can look better with a little bit of repair work done to its anatomy. But the ever beautiful soul deserves respect and freedom. That is the point I was making. I am disappointed that that is completely missed. Or am I a crack pot here talking about such things? Your this introduction to your forthcoming book(your post #21) encouraged me to write what I wrote:

...but the story I have in mind is entirely different.
Its about immortality of the cursed kind... immortal yet she dies within every second and has to strive to live.

I can go back into my cocoon which is quite warm and comfortable. Thanks.
 
Every human being would and can look better with a little bit of repair work done to its anatomy. But the ever beautiful soul deserves respect and freedom..


Dear Vaagmi ji,

Actually I am quite simple minded..its all about getting your priorities right.

If one wants to be in the film industry one should know to at least look much better than the average human.
So there is where Orthodontist or Plastic Surgeons play a role.I surely would not like to pay to see a movie where the audience in the cinema look better than the lead actors!LOL

Just like if a person is a professional he/she needs to maintain a professional image that actually might not really reflect our true self.

We have to behave according to certain norms when we are doing our job..once work is over one can be whatever they please.

BTW I do not see being clean and well groomed as being driven up the wall by society..this is just basic human cleanliness that we need to practice.
What a person does behind closed doors is not my concern..so one can be an Itchy or Scratchy on which ever part of the human anatomy but one does not need to scream that is freedom to break free from the rules of the world...Kalki obviously did not choose right words to prove her point of being a rebel for what ever cause.

...but the story I have in mind is entirely different.
Its about immortality of the cursed kind... immortal yet she dies within every second and has to strive to live.

BTW when I wrote this..I did not write in terms of breaking free from the rules of the world.
Its about survival of an immortal creature in terms and conditions she never knew when she accepted to be immortal.It was not about breaking free.Its about never knowing what lies ahead.
 
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Dear Vaagmi ji,

Actually I am quite simple minded..its all about getting your priorities right.

If one wants to be in the film industry one should know to at least look much better than the average human.
So there is where Orthodontist or Plastic Surgeons play a role.I surely would not like to pay to see a movie where the audience in the cinema look better than the lead actors!LOL

Just like if a person is a professional he/she needs to maintain a professional image that actually might not really reflect our true self.

We have to behave according to certain norms when we are doing our job..once work is over one can be whatever they please.

BTW I do not see being clean and well groomed as being driven up the wall by society..this is just basic human cleanliness that we need to practice.
What a person does behind closed doors is not my concern..so one can be an Itchy or Scratchy on which ever part of the human anatomy but one does not need to scream that is freedom to break free from the rules of the world...Kalki obviously did not choose right words to prove her point of being a rebel for what ever cause.



BTW when I wrote this..I did not write in terms of breaking free from the rules of the world.
Its about survival of an immortal creature in terms and conditions she never knew when she accepted to be immortal.It was not about breaking free.Its about never knowing what lies ahead.

Renukaji,

Yeah. It is nice to be doing the "right things".

If you are a girl:

Get your teeth fixed by a orthodontist so that they are perfectly looking 90 degree up and 90 degree downwards-no acute, obtuse or zig zag tendencies. It does not matter if it involves spending a fortune(the doc. has spent a fortune to acquire that qualification and you are supposed to appreciate it) and bearing extreme pain for a few weeks it should not matter. If certain other parts requires some uplift, get it done with the help of silicone. Get a dimple by hook or crook. Looking right is more important than being yourself.

Dont allow any body-hair to be visible. Use any and every available chemical (if they fail to deliver go for laser therapy) to see that they are nipped in the bud if they are in the visible area of the anatomy.(face, armpits, hands, legs, earlobes are specially covered by this rule). A Kamal Hassan can afford to display hairs in the armpit even in a bharatanAtyam sequence because he is a MAN. You can not question it even if you have to act/dance with him in the same scene in the same movie.

Wear your cloth loosely so that they will never be suggestive of what they cover. If well groomed look as defined by the society requires you to strategically tighten a few of your dresses in a few places, for heaven's sake do it without questioning. The society thinks you become attractive by doing that and that is more important.

Don't look eye to eye with gents who are strangers. "pardesiyon se na akhiyaan milanaa". You can steal a look because that is what you are supposed to do. Society has written poetry on reams and reams of paper about this stealing a look.( உன்னை நான் பார்க்கும் போது மண்ணை நீ பார்க்கின்றாயே, விண்ணை நான் பர்க்கும் போது என்னை நீ பார்க்கின்றாயே etc etc.,)

Whether your marriage is a love marriage or an arranged marriage it is in your hand to see that it does not end in a rock. Even if your husband/love turns out to be an alcoholic, stoically bear the difficulties of living with an alcoholic and bear children for that stupid fellow. Valluvar said "தற்காத்து, தற்கொண்டான் பேணித்தகை சான்ற சொற்காத்து சோர்விலாள் பெண்"....yeah you are not to get tired of anything. And he also said " தெய்வம் தொழாஅள் கொழுனற்றொழுதெழுவாள் பெய்யென பெய்யும் மழை". You have already been deified. What more do you need.

And many more can be added to this list.

But if a Kalki Koechlin questions any of this driving up the wall, she must be pulled down. Strange is the way of the women of the world. LOL.
 
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Renukaji,

Yeah. It is nice to be doing the "right things".

If you are a girl:

Get your teeth fixed by a orthodontist so that they are perfectly looking 90 degree up and 90 degree downwards-no acute, obtuse or zig zag tendencies. It does not matter if it involves spending a fortune(the doc. has spent a fortune to acquire that qualification and you are supposed to appreciate it) and bearing extreme pain for a few weeks it should not matter. If certain other parts requires some uplift, get it done with the help of silicone. Get a dimple by hook or crook. Looking right is more important than being yourself.

Dont allow any body-hair to be visible. Use any and every available chemical (if they fail to deliver go for laser therapy) to see that they are nipped in the bud if they are in the visible area of the anatomy.(face, armpits, hands, legs, earlobes are specially covered by this rule). A Kamal Hassan can afford to display hairs in the armpit even in a bharatanAtyam sequence because he is a MAN. You can not question it even if you have to act/dance with him in the same scene in the same movie.

Wear your cloth loosely so that they will never be suggestive of what they cover. If well groomed look as defined by the society requires you to strategically tighten a few of your dresses in a few places, for heaven's sake do it without questioning. The society thinks you become attractive by doing that and that is more important.

Don't look eye to eye with gents who are strangers. "pardesiyon se na akhiyaan milanaa". You can steal a look because that is what you are supposed to do. Society has written poetry on reams and reams of paper about this stealing a look.( உன்னை நான் பார்க்கும் போது மண்ணை நீ பார்க்கின்றாயே, விண்ணை நான் பர்க்கும் போது என்னை நீ பார்க்கின்றாயே etc etc.,)

Whether your marriage is a love marriage or an arranged marriage it is in your hand to see that it does not end in a rock. Even if your husband/love turns out to be an alcoholic, stoically bear the difficulties of living with an alcoholic and bear children for that stupid fellow. Valluvar said "தற்காத்து, தற்கொண்டான் பேணித்தகை சான்ற சொற்காத்து சோர்விலாள் பெண்"....yeah you are not to get tired of anything. And he also said " தெய்வம் தொழாஅள் கொழுனற்றொழுதெழுவாள் பெய்யென பெய்யும் மழை". You have already been deified. What more do you need.

And many more can be added to this list.

But if a Kalki Koechlin questions any of this driving up the wall, she must be pulled down. Strange is the way of the women of the world. LOL.


Dear Vaagmi ji,


LOL! I love answering you..here goes:



1)I got my teeth fixed as teen cos I had a canine tooth that was slightly high up which made me look like a vampire when I smiled! So I wore braces for 2 years when I was 14 years to get my perfect smile!LOL..its quite common to get teeth corrected.no big deal.


2)Some of us females are lucky that we dont have facial hair or body hair as much as some hirsute females..so our razors are used only sometimes..but overall the skin of a female looks and feels best without hair.Waxing is good too..well some opt for a Brazilian/Argentinian etc!LOL
BTW metrosexual men do shave their axillary hair too.

3)Clothes need to be loose where there is a flaw to hide and need to be fitting where there is something to flaunt.High heels shoes adds to charm and makes a sexy gait.

4)I dont usually look at people in the eye when talk cos I do not like making eye contact with anyone ..not becos I am shy but becos I do not like looking at eyes.
I remember once a senior doctor at the hospital yelled at me when I was an intern cos he said I never look at his eyes when I talk! Actually the reason I did not look at his eyes cos I did not like his nature!LOL

5)Coming to marriage..whether its love or arranged..the final product is the same..men claim they can never understand women and women claim men never understand them but no one wants to understand men!LOL
 
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