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Why the Brahmins & Dalits should unite

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prasad1

Gold Member
Gold Member
I think this thread is totally lost. It is floundering.

Mr. Vganeji, are we in the ballpark, if not please ask the thread to be closed.
Or participate and correct the course.
 
Dear Sri Prasad1

Have always had a high regard for you and your expressed views.

Calling fellow-Dravidians Telegus, Kannadas, and Keralites "Swahili" in the demeaning sense of "<snip
[FONT=&quot]>[/FONT] is hardly becoming. Might even smack of Tamil-chauvinism, if left unqualified.

As for "Disparaging Avatars or God", no such thing occurred.

My Puraana purohits told my class of Veda students that Shukraaachaariar, the respected guru of the asuras, knew by his powerful dhrishti-shakthi that the Brahmachaari praying for biksha of three feet of ground to do his maadhyaahnikam was in fact Lord Mahaa Vishnu seeking to depose Emperor Mahaabali.

He therefore counselled his royal shishyan not to do the kshethra-daanam by putting tulsi leaves into the cupped hands of the yaachakan and pouring theertham on top, thereby perfecting the gift after pronouncing "Bhoo-daanam dadaami".

This yaachakan was a "kapada-naadaka sookshma vanchakan, a vesha daari", the guru warned. The English rendering would be something like "secret cheater playing a part in a false drama, an imposter". Instead of this cumbersome phraseology I simply used the word "scheming". (Those in the know, will know.)

When the emperor proceeded despite (in defiance of) the upadesham, Shukraachaariar took the form of a honey-bee, entered the neck of the kendi, blocking the flow of water. Annoyed, the emperor picked up a straw lying on the ground and poked it through the mouth at the neck of the kendi. Blinded thereby in one eye, Shukrachaariar flew out of the kendi, and disappeared saying the emperor's fate was sealed. (Even today Shukra bhagavaan, one of the nava graha-moorthies, is known as "The Oned-yed One".)

The emperor completed his donation.

The beggar-boy immediately enlarged himself to a sky-reaching giant in size (vishva-roopam) and took one step which covered the entire world (bhoo-lokam). With his next step he covered the upper regions -- bhuva-lokam, suvar-lokam, mahaa-lokam, jana-lokam, tapo-lokam, sathya-lokam. He then asked the emperor for the vowed third foot-sized piece of land.

The emperor knelt down, bowed his royal head, and invited Lord Vaamana to put his foot on the emperor's own back. The Lord did so, and thrust the mere mortal through atala, vitala, sutala, rasaatala, mahaatala, and talaatala, into paataalam.

That was what we were all taught in our class. The same version is what I heard in several kathaa-kaalakshepams by eminent bhaagavathars and shaasthrigals. It might well be that you heard differently, as gurus frequently differ.

Were all these eminent knowledgeable men "disparaging" avataarams or God, Sir?

Please let me assure you that I had not the least intention of disparaging any avatar or God. Puranic stories might seem odd to the uninitiated. That might not be grounds for suppressing or editing them.

As for "
Om namo bhagavathe vaasudevaaya", that is the shaashtaanga prostration I make every time I chant the Vishnu sahasra-naamam (an extract from Vyaasa's Mahaa-Bhaaratham). It is followeed immediately by -- "Om vishvasmai namaha. Vishvam, vishnum, vashad kaaro....."

Hindu communities, even in far-flung countries, aided by Vishnu temples and Braahmana samoohams, sabhas, and associations, hold annual "Koti-naama paaraayana japams" during which participants complete reciting together ten million naamas chanting the vishnu sahsara-naamam
over a 42-day period.

One essential component of such japams is the namaskaara-manthram "
Om namo bhagavathe vaasudevaaya."
Hope you can kindly refrain from reading anything sinister or derogatory into my post. Thanks.

S Narayanaswamy Iyer
 
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renuka

Gold Member
Gold Member
Dear Narayana Iyer Ji,

Its very racists of you to denote Africans as savages.

African languages have beautiful words and African people have their own life style.
Just becos their life style is different that does not mean they are savages.


Its just a figure of speech when one says Swahili..its like using the term Greek and Latin when nothing makes sense to us.


I hope moderator would delete your racists remarks by calling Sub Saharans as savages.


I have reported your post just to delete the savage word.

If I report a post I will inform the poster that I am reporting.
 
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OP
V

vgane

Well-known member
Back to the topic!!

I think it will help the Hindus if the Dalits who are going astray are brought back to the ruling party side. Look at the ramifications of the Bhim Army that is going berserk in UP...The Jatavs (Mayawati ex CM of UP belong to this caste) who are the main supporters of the Bhim Army

On a similar note in TN, Thirumavalavan & Krishnaswamy who are leading the Paraiyars and Pallars should be enticed by the BJP as they will strengthen the support base of BJP along with the existing support of the middle castes -Nadars, Thevars & Gounders

In case Brahmins support such a combination it will reap them electoral dividends
 

krish44

Gold Member
Gold Member
In terms of electoral arithmetic 3-4% in terms of numbers does not count for much.

They ought to align with any party which values these numbers to gain political power.

Their best is to align with one of the factions of dravidian parties which are badly split to bolster their numbers beyond 31% in multi cornered fights.

If any other front [BJP led] comes close to winning a great many seats by putting together other castes ,then it might be worth it.

Brahmins can hardly play the caste card to get anything because of their small numbers unlike UP or uttarakhand

They can get a state cabinet post or perks related to minsters post.
 
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thebigthinkg

Active member
Caste based voting benefits the rich and powerful amongst the castes and not others.

If TN Brahmins wanted to contribute to society in any meaningful way, as erstwhile knowledge providers of society, they could focus on (low, high, higher, very high end)education, research, teaching etc so they they can be the thought leaders and opinion makers of society (without excluding others from it). They can excel in it easily.

This thought leadership and opinion making is what Periyar took away from Brahmins in TN because they did not evolve adequately to meet the contemporary challenges.

Getting to political power working with other castes is not possible and even if possible will do no good to anyone.


-TBT
 

krish44

Gold Member
Gold Member
very wise post.my upvote.

we brahmins can concentrate on what we can do best. Education plus jobs calling for high level of thought process.

Let us leave politics to others.

Let us go where we our education leads us.
 

renuka

Gold Member
Gold Member
very wise post.my upvote.

we brahmins can concentrate on what we can do best. Education plus jobs calling for high level of thought process.

Let us leave politics to others.

Let us go where we our education leads us.

Stock market?


Cyber crime too needs high level of educationLOL

So its not education alone that is important..its practical application which is important AND risk taking.

Most highly intellectual types are NOT real risk takers.

So that way they seldom build empires and only land up being employees or a very highly paid CEO.
 
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F

Falcon

Guest
Brahmins are minority in population.

And among the minority, there are few who suffer....

Are Brahmins the Dalits of today?

At a time when the Congress government wants to raise the quota for Other Backward Classes to 49.5 per cent in private and public sectors, nobody talks about the plight of the upper castes. The public image of the Brahmins, for instance, is that of an affluent, pampered class. But is it so today?

Doctors in arms


There are 50 Sulabh Shauchalayas (public toilets) in Delhi; all of them are cleaned and looked after by Brahmins (this very welcome public institution was started by a Brahmin). A far cry from the elitist image that Brahmins have!
There are five to six Brahmins manning each Shauchalaya. They came to Delhi eight to ten years back looking for a source of income, as they were a minority in most of their villages, where Dalits are in majority (60 per cent to 65 per cent). In most villages in UP and Bihar, Dalits have a union which helps them secure jobs in villages.

At Ground Zero of the quota protests


Did you know that you also stumble upon a number of Brahmins working as coolies at Delhi's railway stations? One of them, Kripa Shankar Sharma, says while his daughter is doing her Bachelors in Science he is not sure if she will secure a job.
"Dalits often have five to six kids, but they are confident of placing them easily and well," he says. As a result, the Dalit population is increasing in villages. He adds: "Dalits are provided with housing, even their pigs have spaces; whereas there is no provision for gaushalas (cowsheds) for the cows of the Brahmins."

The middle class deserves what it is getting


You also find Brahmin rickshaw pullers in Delhi. 50 per cent of Patel Nagar's rickshaw pullers are Brahmins who like their brethren have moved to the city looking for jobs for lack of employment opportunities and poor education in their villages.
Even after toiling the whole day, Vijay Pratap and Sidharth Tiwari, two Brahmin rickshaw pullers, say they are hardly able to make ends meet. These men make about Rs 100 to Rs 150 on an average every day from which they pay a daily rent of Rs 25 for their rickshaws and Rs 500 to Rs 600 towards the rent of their rooms which is shared by 3 to 4 people or their families.
Did you also know that most rickshaw pullers in Banaras are Brahmins?

Do our institutes connect with the real India?


This reverse discrimination is also found in bureaucracy and politics. Most of the intellectual Brahmin Tamil class has emigrated outside Tamil Nadu. Only 5 seats out of 600 in the combined UP and Bihar assembly are held by Brahmins -- the rest are in the hands of the Yadavs.

400,000 Brahmins of the Kashmir valley, the once respected Kashmiri Pandits, now live as refugees in their own country, sometimes in refugee camps in Jammu and Delhi in appalling conditions. But who gives a damn about them? Their vote bank is negligible.

And this is not limited to the North alone. 75 per cent of domestic help and cooks in Andhra Pradesh are Brahmins. A study of the Brahmin community in a district in Andhra Pradesh (Brahmins of India by J Radhakrishna, published by Chugh Publications) reveals that today all purohits live below the poverty line.

Eighty per cent of those surveyed stated that their poverty and traditional style of dress and hair (tuft) had made them the butt of ridicule. Financial constraints coupled with the existing system of reservations for the 'backward classes' prevented them from providing secular education to their children.

Who are the real Dalits of India?


In fact, according to this study there has been an overall decline in the number of Brahmin students. With the average income of Brahmins being less than that of non-Brahmins, a high percentage of Brahmin students drop out at the intermediate level. In the 5 to 18 year age group, 44 per cent Brahmin students stopped education at the primary level and 36 per cent at the pre-matriculation level.

The study also found that 55 per cent of all Brahmins lived below the poverty line -- below a per capita income of Rs 650 a month. Since 45 per cent of the total population of India is officially stated to be below the poverty line it follows that the percentage of destitute Brahmins is 10 per cent higher than the all-India figure.

There is no reason to believe that the condition of Brahmins in other parts of the country is different. In this connection it would be revealing to quote the per capita income of various communities as stated by the Karnataka finance minister in the state assembly: Christians Rs 1,562, Vokkaligas Rs 914, Muslims Rs 794, Scheduled castes Rs 680, Scheduled Tribes Rs 577 and Brahmins Rs 537.

Appalling poverty compels many Brahmins to migrate to towns leading to spatial dispersal and consequent decline in their local influence and institutions. Brahmins initially turned to government jobs and modern occupations such as law and medicine. But preferential policies for the non-Brahmins have forced Brahmins to retreat in these spheres as well.

Caste shouldn't overwrite merit


According to the Andhra Pradesh study, the largest percentage of Brahmins today are employed as domestic servants. The unemployment rate among them is as high as 75 per cent. Seventy percent of Brahmins are still relying on their hereditary vocation. There are hundreds of families that are surviving on just Rs 500 per month as priests in various temples (Department of Endowments statistics).

Read more at: http://www.rediff.com/news/2006/may/23franc.htm
 

prasad1

Gold Member
Gold Member
The op started by saying Brahmins should unite with XXXXXX for the benefit of Brahmins.
That may not be a lofty goal, but at least it was a statement. It was disingenuous coming from Vganeji knowing his position.

But now the tables seems to have turned.
The post #56 is against Dalits altogether.


Vaagmiji has disputed the quoted text in an earlier post.

Appalling poverty compels many Brahmins to migrate to towns leading to spatial dispersal and consequent decline in their local influence and institutions.
 

krish44

Gold Member
Gold Member
Stock market?


Cyber crime too needs high level of educationLOL

So its not education alone that is important..its practical application which is important AND risk taking.

Most highly intellectual types are NOT real risk takers.

So that way they seldom build empires and only land up being employees or a very highly paid CEO.
Quite true that most brahmins are not risk takers and would like to be wage earners with a monthly salary.

Risk taking does not mean stock market alone.

It might be real estate, Gold [Gold prices vary these days and investment rushes to Gold when stocks crash].

Brahmins can if they try park some money in various asset classes to do well.Education can help them to easily identify them.

Quite true Empire building requires a mindset.Disdaining money and feeling proud about it is a valued mindset we possess in ample amount.
 
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