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on this republic day: We are Brahmins, OBCs, Dalits, Muslims, but are we Indians?

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prasad1

Well-known member
We in India feel proud that India has stood united as a nation despite our many differences.
As a teenager, I saw two issues dividing our country: The Ram Mandir-Babri Masjid issue and the Mandal Commission recommendations, which Prime Minister V P Singh accepted in August 1990.
Caste politics was being resorted to thwart religion-based politics, it was said then.
Unfortunately, the only entity that suffered was the Idea of India itself.
The Mandir movement engulfed India and there were riots across the country as then Bharatiya Janata Party president L K Advani set out on his rath yatra, demanding the construction of a Ram temple in Ayodhya.
Advani's yatra was meant to counter the political impact of the Mandal fire, which had spread across north India in September 1990 when anti-Mandal supporters felt that reservations for the backward castes would deprive them of much valued opportunities and jobs.
The argument the V P Singh government gave when it accepted the Mandal Commission's recommendations was that certain castes in India were backward and so needed to be uplifted economically.
"India needs social engineering," a pro-Mandal activist had told me then. I was in sync with this argument till I visited Uttar Pradesh to cover the 1998 general election. I realised then how dangerous 'social engineering' could be if it was misused.


In 1995, the Bahujan Samaj Party's Mayawati had become UP's chief minister and introduced a controversial legislation called the Harijan Act.
Under this Act, a Dalit/Harijan could file a police complaint against any upper caste individual if s/he felt harassed. As with some laws, this became a tool for blackmail and harassment.
Frivolous cases were filed across the state against the upper castes and if they didn't pay up, they would be put behind bars. In other words, since the upper castes had tortured the lower castes for centuries, it was now payback time. And if the backwards were out of power, then the upper castes would tell them it was payback time.

The television news channels and other media have highlighted Rohith's death as the death of a Dalit student. It is a sad and tragic death, but nobody says an 'Indian' student has died.
The uproar over Rohith's suicide harks back to the Mandal days that haunted upper caste and Dalit politics for long.
The BJP has drawn itself into the controversy by stating that the Akhil Bharatiya Vidyarthi Parishad student Susheel Kumar (who was allegedly attacked by Rohith and other students, which led to their suspension and eventually to Rohith's suicide) is himself an OBC.
Human Resource Development Minister Smriti Irani also fell into the caste trap, stating that Union Minister Bandaru Dattareya (who has been charged with abetment of Rohtih's suicide) is a Yadav, that is, from an OBC community.
Is this what we have come to as a nation after 68 years of Independence, 65 years of being a Republic?
Nobody is concerned about the larger picture, of how Indians are spreading hate among themselves and how we don't think of ourselves as one nation.
We are all upper castes, backward castes, Hindus or Muslims, but not Indians.
Iqbal's question needs to be reframed for today's times:
Yun to Dalit bhi ho, Brahmin bhi ho, Musalamaan bhi ho
Tum sabhi kuch batao tum mein koi Hindustani bhi ho?

http://www.rediff.com/news/column/w...alits-muslims-but-are-we-indians/20160122.htm
 

CHANDRU1849

Well-known member
Oneness is being shown during Independence Day and Republic Day. Are we celebrating it on the basis of religion and caste?

Overaction may be restricted to cinema and mega serials.
 

Vaagmi

Well-known member
Heterogeneity can not be just wished away.

Brahmins, kshatriyas, yadavs, vysyas and dalits are real. Caste is real. Caste is not discriminative. Castes will not disappear. What will not disappear has to be managed well for the welfare of the society. The greatest impediment in Indian society which blocks the efforts to use castes for the welfare of the society is politics.

For a cunning politician who is not resourceful enough to compete and organize masses on the basis of other factors like poverty etc., castes are an attractive alternative tool to organize masses. So caste has to be shown as a divisive, discriminatory and oppressive dogma. These politicians have succeeded in their task. They have created deep divisions in the society in the name of castes. They hate people in the name of caste and also organize people in the name of caste. They tell masses to hate sections of people in the name of caste and in the same breath ask people to rally and vote in the name of castes. Thus they create deep divisions in the society and the language is always we versus they.

The reason may be that India as a nation and as a democracy is young and is finding its ropes.

Let us hope better sense prevails.

I see the efforts to un ite people under the name of religion is also an attempt to integrate the society.
 

vgane

Well-known member
Heterogeneity can not be just wished away.

Brahmins, kshatriyas, yadavs, vysyas and dalits are real. Caste is real. Caste is not discriminative. Castes will not disappear. What will not disappear has to be managed well for the welfare of the society. The greatest impediment in Indian society which blocks the efforts to use castes for the welfare of the society is politics.

For a cunning politician who is not resourceful enough to compete and organize masses on the basis of other factors like poverty etc., castes are an attractive alternative tool to organize masses. So caste has to be shown as a divisive, discriminatory and oppressive dogma. These politicians have succeeded in their task. They have created deep divisions in the society in the name of castes. They hate people in the name of caste and also organize people in the name of caste. They tell masses to hate sections of people in the name of caste and in the same breath ask people to rally and vote in the name of castes. Thus they create deep divisions in the society and the language is always we versus they.

The reason may be that India as a nation and as a democracy is young and is finding its ropes.

Let us hope better sense prevails.

I see the efforts to un ite people under the name of religion is also an attempt to integrate the society.

People who call others as kafirs are mostly behind this! I believe caste is not nationhood..I believe caste is more to do with customs and traditions..It cannot be a divisive factor...Caste is another element of our heterogeneity...Uniting the castes under religious umbrella will help the castes to make progress..Make unity while there is diversity..Respect for castes and mutual tolerance is the key
 
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sravna

Well-known member
You are right Shri. Vaagmi Differences in spiritual maturity are real. There is nothing unfair in it. Each group has its own way of accomplishing things. A person with high spiritual maturity should not and in fact will not look down upon those with lesser maturity.

Actually there are two ways of evolving. One is through the use the intelligence of mind alone and conquering the inner forces. The other is trying to use force and conquer the external world. Both ways give us insights into reality and help us mature. The first is top down approach where you are at an advantage when it comes to maturity but at a disadvantage when it comes to pragmatism initially. The other is bottom up approach where you gain insights through a number of experiences, but are pragmatic with the level of maturity initially being low. Please note I am talking of current times pragmatism where it is not positively correlated with maturity.

So let us try to understand and appreciate the situation better. Differences are necessary for all to learn and grow. Exploiting it as the politicians and vested interests do for their benefit is what needs to stop.
 
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krish44

Well-known member
Heterogeneity can not be just wished away.

Brahmins, kshatriyas, yadavs, vysyas and dalits are real. Caste is real. Caste is not discriminative. Castes will not disappear. What will not disappear has to be managed well for the welfare of the society. The greatest impediment in Indian society which blocks the efforts to use castes for the welfare of the society is politics.

For a cunning politician who is not resourceful enough to compete and organize masses on the basis of other factors like poverty etc., castes are an attractive alternative tool to organize masses. So caste has to be shown as a divisive, discriminatory and oppressive dogma. These politicians have succeeded in their task. They have created deep divisions in the society in the name of castes. They hate people in the name of caste and also organize people in the name of caste. They tell masses to hate sections of people in the name of caste and in the same breath ask people to rally and vote in the name of castes. Thus they create deep divisions in the society and the language is always we versus they.

The reason may be that India as a nation and as a democracy is young and is finding its ropes.

Let us hope better sense prevails.

I see the efforts to un ite people under the name of religion is also an attempt to integrate the society.
There are some diehards who want status quo and would like to blame politicians instead of admitting caste system is discriminatory and needs to go.

Same is the attempt to glorify outdated religeous attires and practices.

Politicians only reflect society and form part and parcel of society.

Most at the so called higher levels of caste spectrum have a vested interest in holding on to casteism .

We are no better than aborigon tribes of africa and those practising discrimination based on colour.

It requires mindset to develop indian ness raising above caste and religion
 

Vaagmi

Well-known member
There are some diehards who want status quo and would like to blame politicians instead of admitting caste system is discriminatory and needs to go.

Just like there are some hot heads who are otherwise called arm chair revolutioneries who want to homogenise the society without knowing that they are engaged in the proverbial tilting at the windmill. Castes are not discriminatory. It is people who are discriminating. There are brahmins who do not discriminate just on the basis of caste. There are immature people who discriminate too. If not castes they will invent something else to use for discriminating. Politicians are indeed to blame and you will agree if you think about it a little more.

Same is the attempt to glorify outdated religeous attires and practices.

What I wear is my personal choice. I do not want to attend lectures on what to wear and what not to wear. Please name the practices which you have in mind, then I will answer you on that.

Politicians only reflect society and form part and parcel of society.

Polliticians do not reflect society. Hitler, Mussolini and Bloody Mary did not reflect the society though they were politicians. They brought shame to their respective societies. The society does not live in AC comfort and does not move about in AC cars driven by chaffeurs whereas politicians do these. Politicians are strange creatures who know only one thing and that is power. They are after power because it opens the magical door to wealth, women and every extravagance.

Politicians look for faultlines in society only to exploit them to the hilt and make money for generations in the family. They do not mind selling the opiate called hatred for garnering votes. Vote gives them power and pelf and in other words hatred gives them power and pelf.

None of the TN politicians reflect the tamil society. I challenge you to prove that they indeed reflect.

Most at the so called higher levels of caste spectrum have a vested interest in holding on to casteism .

What a pathetic ignorance of facts. It is the middle level castes who come together in the n ame of caste to grab power. This middle level castes are the villainous bulk who find it difficult to live at peace with brahmins at the so called higher end and dalits at the so called lower end of the totem pole/spectrum.

We are no better than aborigon tribes of africa and those practising discrimination based on colour.

We have yet to discover a gene transforming chemical to homogenise all genes into white or dusk. So white and black and dusk are real. Better live with that fact and try to be human transcending that color difference. Difference need not become discrimination.

It requires mindset to develop indian ness raising above caste and religion

The first requirement is for the arm-chair revolutioneries to change their mindset and forget homogenisation of the society. They are barking at the wrong tree. Differences are the kernel of the human society and they will stay for ever. What is needed is to live with that reality and manage differences/heterogeneity without allowing them to become instruments of discrimination/exploitation.
 
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tbs

Well-known member
hi

out side india...everybody celebrate as indians....in NJ....there is big india parade in edison area.....oak tree road....whole street

like little india....in india ...we are tamils/we are brahmins tooo...not indians...
 

renuka

Well-known member
I just wonder...do people actually identify with caste on daily basis?

Don't we just get up and go to work...eat... work..earn money..come home..watch TV ..do some housework(for us females)..look into well being of family...then go to bed..and the cycle repeats on daily basis.


A simple experiment is ..just observe our thoughts when we just wake up..for the 1st few seconds our mind is totally blank.

If a human who just woke up from deep sleep has no thoughts for the first few seconds upon waking that shows that the true self has no identity.

I guess its an idle mind that gets too much time to identify with external factors and holds on to it in a death do us NOT part fashion!
 
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tbs

Well-known member
I just wonder...do people actually identify with caste on daily basis?

Don't we just get up and go to work...eat... work..earn money..come home..watch TV ..do some housework(for us females)..look into well being of family...then go to bed..and the cycle repeats on daily basis.


A simple experiment is ..just observe our thoughts when we just wake up..for the 1st few seconds our mind is totally blank.

If a human who just woke up from deep sleep has no thoughts for the first few seconds upon waking that shows that the true self has no identity.

I guess its an idle mind that gets too much time to identify with external factors and holds on to it in a death do us NOT part fashion!
hi

not on daily basis....ONLY ON INDEPENDENCE /REPUBLIC DAYS.......we think abt india....
 

vgane

Well-known member
hi

not on daily basis....ONLY ON INDEPENDENCE /REPUBLIC DAYS.......we think abt india....

Our daily quota of streaming news helps us identify ourselves with India

But our association get strong when there is a public celebration of nationhood..Besides when there is an enemy attack we pray for our country..Of course when we play cricket or hockey with Pakistan the raw emotions play out!!
 

zebra16

Well-known member
I just wonder...do people actually identify with caste on daily basis?

Don't we just get up and go to work...eat... work..earn money..come home..watch TV ..do some housework(for us females)..look into well being of family...then go to bed..and the cycle repeats on daily basis.


A simple experiment is ..just observe our thoughts when we just wake up..for the 1st few seconds our mind is totally blank.

If a human who just woke up from deep sleep has no thoughts for the first few seconds upon waking that shows that the true self has no identity.

I guess its an idle mind that gets too much time to identify with external factors and holds on to it in a death do us NOT part fashion!

Are you asking because of the postings in this forum..?

Lets be real. We do not ask about caste with the vegetable vendor (while purchasing katri-kAi), we dont discuss caste with the fruit seller (while bargaining mAm-pazham), we seldom talk with auto or cab driver (excepting fare related stuff). We have known about the guys working with us and our friends and acquaintances for a few years, so either it is known or no one is bothered about it.

I am yet to come across a person accosting strangers on the streets and asking him about his caste or religion.

So where is the scope for caste related discussion or caste identification on daily basis?

It is possible that people talk about caste when a few people are passed up on promotion due to reservation, or when there is a discussion about proposed marriage alliance or elopement before or after marriage. But these seldom happen on daily basis.
 
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