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Yesterday Brahmins and today Dalits

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vsubbu48

Active member
Sri. Subbu, Greetings.

As I mentioned earlier, brahmins make less than 3% of the Hindu population. That means, 97% are non-brahmins; they are also consumers for the temples. Renovating temples will not help the brahmin community. So, I am not convinced that as a 'brahmin cause'.

Cheers!

The renovated temples in question are in rural areas, sometimes in very remote areas and the renovation is done with funds from everybody including contributions from the non-Brahmin populace of the area. The renovations of the temples offer employment to the poor gurukkals of the local areas. To that extent it is helpful to the brahmins.
 

Raghy

Well-known member
The renovated temples in question are in rural areas, sometimes in very remote areas and the renovation is done with funds from everybody including contributions from the non-Brahmin populace of the area. The renovations of the temples offer employment to the poor gurukkals of the local areas. To that extent it is helpful to the brahmins.

Sri. Subbu Sir, Greetings.

Let us analyse this.

The renovated temples could be in the rural or even ina remote area.

Firstly, the priest job may be given to a NB person; there is no guarantee for a brahmin to get that post. In my opinion, If it was done like that, there is nothing wrong with that either.

Secondly, if a poor brahmin do get that job, he is not likely become rich from that temple duties; his family is likely to stay poor. His children would be stuck in a rural or even in a remote area where they get only a limited exposure to quality education risking those children to stay in the same poverty cycle. Employment in that remote area temple may very well become a punishment for that family.

Thirdly, That poor brahmin's daughter would be interacting mostly with NB boys. May end up marrying a NB boy. Personally I don't see a problem in that, but I am sure many members in this forum wouldn't like to see that.

So, making a donation for renovation of a temple in a rural or remote area with the speculation of gaining employment for a poor brahmin doesn't look like the greatest of ideas.

On the other hand, simple minded Raghy's simple idea is to help a deserving poor brahmin boy/girl through the higher education so that he/she gets a decent paying job, starts living with self respect and get out of the poverty rut.

Cheers!
 

Raghy

Well-known member
Come on Mr. Raghy.. I agree with the rest of your post, except for the animal instinct part. I think educated girls dream of sharp, good-looking educated boys. But in any case you and I are probably not subject experts regarding what girls dream of. :)

Sri. biswa, Greetings.

I quite agree with you, I can't provide a first hand information about this. Kindly read the reply to Sri. Naina, please.

Cheers!
 

Raghy

Well-known member
Raghy Sir, you have been caught with your pants down !. I have to agree with biswa.

Dear Sri. Naina, Greetings.

I agree with Biswa too! The information provided by me is second hand. I was talking to my daughter ( free spirited 19 year old). It was her idea. Granted, she did not use the exact words ' animal instinct', but she used the word 'feral'. Then in India I was talking to few girls in Bangalore.. they want someone 'wild'. I asked them are they going to tame that boy after winning him.. everyone giggled.. just said ..'No'.

By the way, a feral person can very well be well educated, handsome, good looking....and a pure animal in selected areas.

But in general, I agree with you guys, I don't have the first hand knowledge. ( I was young once.. but that is beside the point here).

Cheers!
 

renuka

Well-known member
Come on Mr. Raghy.. I agree with the rest of your post, except for the animal instinct part. I think educated girls dream of sharp, good-looking educated boys. But in any case you and I are probably not subject experts regarding what girls dream of. :)

Dear Biswa ji,

To a certain extent you are right but the animal instinct part is still alright actually.
Ok check out the animal kingdom..once animals reach a certain age they are weaned of their mother and make their own life.
Face challenges out in the wild and dont go home running back to mum for help in everything that comes their way.
Some animals learn to adapt to new environment and not demand for everything to be like before.

Animals do have a mind of their own.
That's the type of animal every girl wants..the type that can think on his own.
 

Naina_Marbus

Well-known member
Sri. Subbu Sir, Greetings.

Let us analyse this.
…………
So, making a donation for renovation of a temple in a rural or remote area withthe speculation of gaining employment for a poor brahmin doesn't look like thegreatest of ideas.

On the other hand, simple minded Raghy's simple idea is to help a deservingpoor brahmin boy/girl through the higher education so that he/she gets a decentpaying job, starts living with self respect and get out of the poverty rut.

Cheers!
Count me in your camp. The only caveat is that we need to be extra vigilant about the boys, who somehow get into the habit of drinking. Make avoidance of alcohol a mandatory condition for continued support.
 
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Raghy

Well-known member
Dear Sri. Naina, Greetings.

First of all I shouldn't criticise someone for consumption of alcohol. ( to night is my break... already decide what I am going to cook and what I am going to drink!). But you are right; it is not for students, certainly not if they can't afford it.

Last time when we went throughthis exercise, One gentleman ( a meduim scale industrialist) kindly spared a lot of his time to interview the reciepient. The money was not given to the student, but remitted directly to the college for fees and expenses. That student's progress was monitored by this gentleman through the college. even that student's mark sheet were made available to monitor progress.

That was a job very well done. If I am not wrong, our hero must be placed in employment now! That is one family branched out of poverty rut.

Cheers!
 

vgane

Well-known member
Dear Sri. Naina, Greetings.

First of all I shouldn't criticise someone for consumption of alcohol. ( to night is my break... already decide what I am going to cook and what I am going to drink!). But you are right; it is not for students, certainly not if they can't afford it.

Last time when we went throughthis exercise, One gentleman ( a meduim scale industrialist) kindly spared a lot of his time to interview the reciepient. The money was not given to the student, but remitted directly to the college for fees and expenses. That student's progress was monitored by this gentleman through the college. even that student's mark sheet were made available to monitor progress.

That was a job very well done. If I am not wrong, our hero must be placed in employment now! That is one family branched out of poverty rut.

Cheers!

Fantastic Raghy Sir! That's the way forward...

Charity should not be deemed free..

Also never do charity to a person at one go..It should be linked to responsibilities, commitments that have to be met..

It has to be reviewed periodically with the recipient and guardian/parent...If progress is satisfactory then the next tranche should be released..

Really appreciate the example...Let us imbibe this methodology while doing Charity
 

Haridasa Siva

New member
Dear Sri. Naina, Greetings.

I agree with Biswa too! The information provided by me is second hand. I was talking to my daughter ( free spirited 19 year old). It was her idea. Granted, she did not use the exact words ' animal instinct', but she used the word 'feral'. Then in India I was talking to few girls in Bangalore.. they want someone 'wild'. I asked them are they going to tame that boy after winning him.. everyone giggled.. just said ..'No'.

By the way, a feral person can very well be well educated, handsome, good looking....and a pure animal in selected areas.

But in general, I agree with you guys, I don't have the first hand knowledge. ( I was young once.. but that is beside the point here).

Cheers!

மான் புலியை வேட்டைதான் ஆடுமிடம்........ ??!!:love:
 

Raghy

Well-known member
மான் புலியை வேட்டைதான் ஆடுமிடம்........ ??!!:love:

I know... pretty much that's how it is. Boys have to be smart. My nephew was there during a function where couple of beauties were hanging around with me. I wished so much for my nephew to come and talk to me while those girls were around... I would have introduced him to those girls.... that would have carried a lot of weight.. but, this boy was not aggressive.

You are right!

Cheers!
 

Raghy

Well-known member
Sri. Ganesh, and Sri. Naina, Greetings.

I refer to Sri. Ganesh post #34 and Sri. Naina post #32 -

After all this conversation, I got curious and contcted the Industrialist. Luckily that gentleman was online. He was asolutely great! He only 'Lent' that money to the brahmin boy. Our hero has completed his studies and placed in a company in Ambattur as an Engineer. Guess what?! That kid actually have returened a third of the help he received. Those returned funds awere given to one more poor boy to fund his education this year! Absolutely brilliant!

I take this instance to thank that gentleman who organised all this along with his very busy schedule. Thank you! :pray2:

Cheers!
 

prasad1

Well-known member
Sri. Ganesh, and Sri. Naina, Greetings.

I refer to Sri. Ganesh post #34 and Sri. Naina post #32 -

After all this conversation, I got curious and contcted the Industrialist. Luckily that gentleman was online. He was asolutely great! He only 'Lent' that money to the brahmin boy. Our hero has completed his studies and placed in a company in Ambattur as an Engineer. Guess what?! That kid actually have returened a third of the help he received. Those returned funds awere given to one more poor boy to fund his education this year! Absolutely brilliant!

I take this instance to thank that gentleman who organised all this along with his very busy schedule. Thank you! :pray2:

Cheers!

Mr Raghy,
That was brilliant, thanks.
Why does he not start an endowment based on his principles. It would be a great vehicle for us to participate.
 

pvraman

Active member
hi,

I think we Brahmins are divided by only one factor called "Poonool".
There are Brahmins with Poonool and there are those who shunned it along with the established norms [i know some of the eat any thing except human whilst it is strictly unthinkable to a battacharya).
There are Brahmins with Poonool who are poor and zamindars.
There are Brahmins without Poonool who are poor with rich.
When they say they are brahmins, it is highly confusing to NBs.

Why Poonool becomes a matter here, because no other castes uses poonool to differentiate their castes from others (practically).

So the public don't understand if somebody sport poonool and practice a very simple way of life and a brahmin without a poonool and all the extravagant life style. They just understand what is best suites to them.

I know there are brahmins with and without a poonool living in a very pathetic condition, they can not get support from a rich and affluent Brahmin with a poonool and without a poonool. There won't be unity unless the norms are clearly established like with the other castes.

Yes, brahmins can unite and fight for our RIGHTFUL share of the resources and wealth leaving all the benchmarks which made brahminism, a very difficult path to live,,,,, is to shed poonool and declare as a CASTE,unite and fight OR stop identifying as brahmins once we leave the established norms and poonool leaving all the brickbats to the rightful target. At-least they would get a chance to defend themselves from this ambiguous situation.
 

C RAVI

Well-known member
hi,

I think we Brahmins are divided by only one factor called "Poonool".
There are Brahmins with Poonool and there are those who shunned it along with the established norms [i know some of the eat any thing except human whilst it is strictly unthinkable to a battacharya).
There are Brahmins with Poonool who are poor and zamindars.
There are Brahmins without Poonool who are poor with rich.
When they say they are brahmins, it is highly confusing to NBs.

Why Poonool becomes a matter here, because no other castes uses poonool to differentiate their castes from others (practically).

So the public don't understand if somebody sport poonool and practice a very simple way of life and a brahmin without a poonool and all the extravagant life style. They just understand what is best suites to them.

I know there are brahmins with and without a poonool living in a very pathetic condition, they can not get support from a rich and affluent Brahmin with a poonool and without a poonool. There won't be unity unless the norms are clearly established like with the other castes.

Yes, brahmins can unite and fight for our RIGHTFUL share of the resources and wealth leaving all the benchmarks which made brahminism, a very difficult path to live,,,,, is to shed poonool and declare as a CASTE,unite and fight OR stop identifying as brahmins once we leave the established norms and poonool leaving all the brickbats to the rightful target. At-least they would get a chance to defend themselves from this ambiguous situation.


Whether you discard Poonal or Not

Whether you eat Non.Veg. or Not

Whether you drink Liquor or Not

Whether you are Rich or Not

Whether you live a simple life or Not

Whether you have extravagant life style with pomp and show or Not

Whether you are Purohit or Not

Whether you are united among Brahmin community or Not

Whether you are united with other Caste people or Not

Whether you are Theists or Not

And what ever You are or You are Not..............

All that matter is "You are a Brahmin by Birth" and you have no place Rightful or otherwise to share the Government's resources and wealth...

Once you got birth based identity as Brahmins, you are out of the fair game. In fact you are an alien, offered a chance to some how survive on your own, by others, based on humanity and sympathy.

If at all we unanimously fight for equality, we will be severely taken to task by the unique ideologies of a leading political personality, similar to that of the past.


 

Raghy

Well-known member
Dear Sri. PV Raman, Greetings.

Welcome back. Long time no see. Good to see you participating.

Cheers!
 
I mentioned about stigma and branding.

If not all of us, most of Tamil Brahmins have gone through this situation .. one or several NB 'friends' talk ill of the brahmin community in the presence of just one or maximum two Tamil brahmins; the talk starts out of blue, quite unprovoked; when the tamil brahmin guys become embaressed enough, these NB guys say " don't mistake us; we are not talking about you in particular but only about the tamil brahmin community in general!'... most often than not, those tamil brahmin guys don't even know how to put up a fight and meekly take the abuse. Such abuses are doled out only due to birth as Tamil brahmin. That is the stigma I am talking about. I am asking the members to think about this situation; I am sure almost everyone has gone through this. Hypothetically, if everyone gets exempted, who are the target for such mud slinging? If that question gets analysed, the answer would be the caste name 'Tamil Brahmins'. That is the stigma I am talking about.

I read this post with interest. It brought a smile! Such a thing happened in this very forum. Therefore, What you say would not surprise anyone.

I am asking the members to think about this situation
How do you propose the brahmin community can overcome this stigmatising?
 
Mr. Raghy,
I am with you on this point. I too do not want to differentiate on the basis of birth based system. I would serve the human being on the need based, and depending on how deserving the candidate is.

Prasad and Raghy have displayed admirable sentiments. However, they should keep in mind that the Government of India does discriminate citizens based on birth (not referring here merely to reservation in higher education; there is discrimination in jobs, in eligibility for scholarships, in getting loans sanctioned. There is discrimination in the definition of "poor", which normally is purely an economical measure. There is discrimination even in the provisions of much touted RTE. Therefore, I hope they do not look down upon a guy who, on seeing discrimination against his community, gives priority to helping his community first !
 
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If at all we unanimously fight for equality, we will be severely taken to task by the unique ideologies of a leading political personality, similar to that of the past.


That was a good post but I could not quite agree with this concluding part, which sounds like a warning to the brahmin community!

The community should not be afraid to assert its rights!
 

S.Ramanathan

New member
May god bless him with lot of wealth and through him many people can grow. I pray god to give enough wealth to those poeple who are instrumental for the survival of others.
 

vsubbu48

Active member
Sri. Subbu Sir, Greetings.

Let us analyse this.

The renovated temples could be in the rural or even ina remote area.

Firstly, the priest job may be given to a NB person; there is no guarantee for a brahmin to get that post. In my opinion, If it was done like that, there is nothing wrong with that either.

Secondly, if a poor brahmin do get that job, he is not likely become rich from that temple duties; his family is likely to stay poor. His children would be stuck in a rural or even in a remote area where they get only a limited exposure to quality education risking those children to stay in the same poverty cycle. Employment in that remote area temple may very well become a punishment for that family.


Cheers!

Dear Shri Raghy,

I find that your views are clouded with pre-conceived notions. While I do not want to engage in an argument with you as nobody wins an argument, let me only narrate some facts.

-Though the temples are in dilapidated condition, to the extent possible pujas are already being carried out by the gurukkals who are living in those villages for generations and despite their hardship. In fact there is a scheme whereby one can adopt a temple and send Rs 3000 every month to the gurukkal directly by money order. This way you can that ensure that you are helping only a brahmin priest.

-The gurukkals in those areas seem to be content with what they get and are proud to carry out their duties to God as did their forefathers.

-There are very serious attempts to convert as many Hindus as possible to other religions. These attempts are mostly done in a clandestine way in the rural areas. It is an incontrovertible fact that most of the Hindus are non-Brahmins and Hinduism cannot survive without their active participation. By co-opting non-Brahmins in the endeavour to rehabilitate the temples, in my opinion, we are ensuring that they remain with their mother religion. In other words our contribution for rehabilitation of the temples help Hinduism survive.

The other points mentioned by are your opinion and let them remain so.
 

prasad1

Well-known member
My wife's family have adopted their ancestral temple and the Temple has been renovated beautifully. They just performed the Padi Thiruvaleeswarar Temple Annual Brahmotsavam.

But it is one man's personal dedication to make it a success. Lot of people (including) Brahmins got good jobs. The local people got a beautiful Temple. It was a win-win for all.
 
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