HH,
Please go through my post #1 (thread header).. It stands self explanatory to your question.
>>Why are you not expressing your own ideas or questions for clarifications on Hinduism?>>
Havent you seen myself refuting kancha's 'Arm wielding gods' statement, through my concept of 'Gods Absolute Justice', which we were debating in 'God why' thread..
But you neither accepted my point out there, nor refuted Kancha's statement here.. I did my job clearly refuting Kancha, with the right theology and philosophy.
Is it necessary to refute Kancha? What for? I consider him a dunce (its my personal opinion) and give a damn to the likes of him. Its nice to talk abt religions, and how concepts have evolved, but you are spoiling it by quoting a dumb baiter.Am sorry but again as written earlier, i will continue any conversation with you, only if kancha is not mentioned in between.
Thanks.
Points taken.Lets attack this specific issue...'God wielding arms'..
I have presented my counter arguments, based upon my view that " God being of 'Absolute Justice in nature, could use any arms/tool/natural calamitie/disasters to deliver HIS justice. You may call this terminology as religious, but as far as Im considered these are general english words, essentially used in philosophical arguments..
If you dont agree to my point, then let me know, on what basis you are going to justify "God wielding arms'..
Observations of a (non-IT) Indian American:
Brahmins (keepers of the traditions of the most disgusting religion ever devised, Hinduism, that counts in its canon, the laws of Manu, that equate caste-perpetuation with spirituality) are 4% of India and 40% of its civil service (any wonder India is so messed up?) and 80% of its IT diaspora. The vast majority of these IT imports are doing nothing irreplaceable and in point of fact are depressing wages. Confronted by the reality of the underdog status in a foreign land, you'd think they'd develop an empathy for the people down the pecking order back home they actively or passively oppressed. But that is not the case, instead these morons fund regressive casteist organizations in India. And have no respect for the history of African Americans and their struggle for civil rights derisively referring to them as "kallus". Absolutely nothing would be lost by sending these retrograde specimens back where they came from.
The civil service stat is an aggregate of centre and states while the IT diaspora stat is limited to the US and based on my observation.
KRS, let me be very clear..
I have accepted open heartedly in an 'exclusive post', about my wrong notions (gathered from internet) about Shri.Adishankara, esp concluding after a week long reading. If I had any bad intentions, I would have skipped responding to that, which I didnt do.
Agreed. You acted in a civilized manner. I did not say you have 'bad' intentions. Your intentions, I said, seem to be 'not above board'. Meaning, you stated that you are here 'trying to understand' God, yet you would not accept the foundations of monism. You even admit that you tried to refute Kancha based on monotheism. So, these instances tell me that your quest is not to 'understand/know' God, but to 'understand/know Gods from other faiths in terms of monotheism'. You also put up some 'surveys' based on wrong presumptions (which you admitted) to evaluate Hinduism's so called 'decline'. Why one would be interested in stopping the decline of my religion, when you do not even know the fundamentals about my religion?
Secondly,this thread lost it momentum for a while, cos I was active in 'God Why' thread.. Wonder how it got momentum recently.
Sir, I told you I'll write a critique of Kancha's book once I read it. That is what I posted and you commented the following "I think, Kancha is not saying 'Hindus as Violent'.. I remember a paragraph, where in he cites about the 'Arms flaunting Gods killing black men(he persumed black demon to be dalits)". But he fails to pay any attention to the theological/Theosophical front.
Can someone attempt to answer him?"
This was a misleading post because when I challenged it you immediately posted Kancha's usual 'hate Hinduism' Q&A from Rediff. This tells me that you are here to throw bombs. I have already stated in my critique (and others as well) that Kancha's book is not scholorly and is based on polemics and hate. Without countering that argument, why would you want us to refute his senseless statements made without him understanding the tenets of Hinduism?
Thirdly, I have clearly presented my philosophical counter to Kancha on 'God wielding arm' issue.. May be, it was given with a Monotheistic philosophy, but that doesnt stop you from answering your counter!! And I havent seen anyone giving a judicious response to that point too..., i
Why should I 'counter' a senseless person's rantings? If he has said something scholorly without any ulterior motives I may want to answer him. As the hosts of this Forum we are allowing certain items to be discussed. This does not mean that anyone can come in here and insult the sensibilities of our members by posting such vulgarity.
Instead you are trying to paint a picture, that, Im pushing my agenda, and you wanna create an imaginary enemy out of me, I cant help it.. Out here, the words speak, not emotions,agendas and personalities. Thats what discussion forums all about right!!. Thats some thing you need to re-think about..
I have given you above my cold, calculated, reasoned and non emotional response with examples to tell you why I said what I said. Believe me, if I wanted to make an enemy out of you I can do it in a second. What I would like you to ponder is what is your real aim in participating in discussions in this Forum. You need to re-think it.
m>>>>Initially you seemed to equate casteism to racism, then spoke abt affirmative action, etc..each time it seemed to be some point or the other that sorta paints hindu faith in a negative light>>>
Do you think the Ancient Grand Old Hinduism for that matter any religion will get defamed just because some one talks negative about. Remember, Hinduism grew because of Adi Shankara's open debate, Christianity grew faster only after Luther's acrid criticism or islam spread to Europe only after great the great philosophical propounding of Ibn & Avveros (later to be copied by Christians). Take it as a debate. I'm not here to worship/praise/do some ritual so that people will feel nice of me.
>>>>I too am not a brahmin like you. >>>
Did I mention my caste anywhere, in this thread?
>>>It is not true that all brahmins treated others badly or indulged in supression or oppression or whatever. A brahmin merely followed his path and in doing so, hurted none.>>
Already I agreed with you that we wont take excemptions and attribute it to a totality..be it a society/religion/community/nation.
>>>All propaganda was created during colonial times, aided by a small section of english educated OBCs and a small section of Brahmins >>
For the argument sake, lets agree, its all caused by Brits. But what about our personal convictions. Just because Brits said something like A.I.T, should we dump the scriptures and follow what they said? I dont think hindu faith is so fragile, just a research paper would make a turmoil
>>>>There is no need for all brahmins and all OBCs to feel guilty about all these long lost things. ALL members of any community cannot be held responsible for anything.>>
I'm in disagreement with you here. We talked a lot about it, and subsequently "God Why' thread was started to find a scriptural answer to this contradicton.
>>Today's oppressors are the politicians. >>
Again,in a democratic set up, politicians are the weighted average reflections our our society. So there is no point in blaming them
>>>Hindu history may be bloody and loaded with wars.>>>
Every religious team had their own bloody hands. But good to study them with the balanced mind, and see how they come out of the mess. It could be a good learning.
>>>>making moral judgements about certain parts of the hindu faith, and such things anymore.>>>
Any thing accomodated under 'Faith/Dogma cannot be debated or questioned by anyone. But then, the problem arises is, I can also set up my own faith like Osho-Sex, Mormon Christians Polygamy&incest and Islams 72 virgins for a suicide bomber. Will you also agree them as good faith, and stay away from Judgments?
>>>>There is no need for all brahmins and all OBCs to feel guilty about all these long lost things. ALL members of any community cannot be held responsible for anything.>>
I'm in disagreement with you here. We talked a lot about it, and subsequently "God Why' thread was started to find a scriptural answer to this contradicton.
I stand by my statement that ALL members of a community cannot be painted as responsible for everything or be made to feel guilty. Contradictions will exist because diff hindu schools follow diff interpretations. That is how we have lived and there is nothing wrong in continuing to live the same way. I find the idea of wanting to nail communities of people as not having an honorouble motive.
>>Today's oppressors are the politicians. >>
Again,in a democratic set up, politicians are the weighted average reflections our our society. So there is no point in blaming them
Agreed, politicians cannot be blamed for everything. It is us the electorate that needs to share the blame for electing them, and for our own culture of corruption, commissions and favourism by recommendations that we follow. Just adding this though may not be related to the topic: in any case there is no room for missionaries in this scenario.
>>>>making moral judgements about certain parts of the hindu faith, and such things anymore.>>>
Any thing accomodated under 'Faith/Dogma cannot be debated or questioned by anyone. But then, the problem arises is, I can also set up my own faith like Osho-Sex, Mormon Christians Polygamy&incest and Islams 72 virgins for a suicide bomber. Will you also agree them as good faith, and stay away from Judgments?
I do not see anything right or wrong with Osho, Mormons, Polygamy (or incest either - egyptian kings married their sisters - are you gonna judge them), Islam or 72 Virgins..
I am given a choice in this world - join them or forget them. I do not join them or follow them. That does not mean i want to judge them or change them. Why should I judge and ask an other person to change. The world is about variety. Yes, sure you too can set up your own faith..Who am i to judge?
Response to post # 710
I have told you in the begining,that my pursuit of God is not just alone by faith/dogma, rather by reasoning,logics,worldview & philosophy. To start with, I can regretfully say, you failed to educate me about Monism, and you were only careful,that you dont get trapped in the argument.Reminding me of Karan Thapar!!! I thought you would find a common platform to brige the western and eastern philosophies. Unfortunately, you had a mind set that, I have a hidden agenda, just because many of the posters expressed so, and our premises went helter- skelter.
Hmm...what happens if a person chooses not to be educated? If you were to ask a monk wandering in streets and jungles, he is never going to explain faith to you based on reasoning, logic, worldview or philosophy. You are looking for a religion; and more so a social-religion, not faith. And am wondering..when there is no river, how to have a common platform or bridge b/w the eastern and western philosophies...
you tried to refute Kancha based on monotheism (Arm Wielding gods):- I did my job here with one of the possible philosphies which I could utilise to refute Kancha on 'Arm wielding Gods;.. Infact,even, I had a plan to ask the same question in 'God Why' thread, after finding our conclusion about 'Absolute Justice Nature of God"". But you went in to emotions, instead of refuting him through your expert idea on monism/advaitham.Thats your weakness, respected sir.Kancha is perfectly right in his point in saying " We listened for 2000 years, but its time you also listen,and people who dont listen will perish". Its a perfect point, I fully agree with him, doesnt matter if it hurts anyone here. Back to the point, I was also googling some info on that point, sporting the hat of 'Monism'.. I couldnt hit any right u.r.l/info.. But I have seen some logical responses from Islam/buddhist view, though not convincing, and once again,I'm continuing my pursuit about truth about God.
If someone were to call Narayanamurthy names (to me he is a sheer genius) and then call someone like Kancha as "a respected sir" well, i might certainly be tempted to think there is some kinda agenda (again its my personal opinion, not an allegation or doubt). To me your writing seems like a case of propaganda for Kancha. If not, then as requested earlier, please express stuff on your own, not what Kancha says. And before you ask ppl here to counter it or refute stuff that a missionary-boy like Kancha says, please search for info on your own, since you are more likely to come across the opposite of what Kancha says if you were to look into hindu scriptures on your own.
And Kancha says "we listened for 2000 years" ? This is typical british created propaganda during the colonial times. Even until Maratha times in Tamil nadu, no one seems to have listened to a brahmin. I was going thru parts of the book Symbols of substance, court and state in nayaka period in Tamilnadu; and found that the balijas used to kill kings who did not support trade (typical trade monopoly in the 15th century that exists even today. Btw in an avarna society any trader of any kind was called balija then, so plz don't link this to the current communities). If trade monopoly was that competititive, where even kings got killed, you think such ppl wud have listened to a brahmin. Go and ask the same thing to any armed group if they had "listened" to a brahmin at any point of time. You think even the kind of a soilder that stands in a front row in battle who has no fear for death wud have followed the counsel of a brahmin instead of battle strategy from his commander?
What constitutes the current brahmin class itself is a mystery. On what basis are the current brahmins hounded with such kinda false propaganda of "2000 years"? Perhaps it was just '200 years of claims'. Claims made by every section of the society - of oppression by self-appointed current dalit groups, claims of control and superiority by current brahmanical groups, claims of some long-lost oppression without any proof put into the heads of non-brahmin-non-dalit groups. This was the legacy the brits left us, a wonderful "be-divided-so-we-can-come-back" idealogy and a dunce like Kancha now invites missionaries based on that legacy.
btw,this point of 'Arms wielding Gods needs to be answered'.. I have every reason to ask a response from you, though it was cited in Kancha's writing in a crude-unpolished way..For eg,last year, a Telugu Brahmin by name Sooryanarayana,who got converted to Pentecoastal Christianity released a book called 'SatyaDharshini/Ruju Dharshini(telugu)'questioning the nature of gods in line with 'Arms wielding and Un-holy acts of Gods ( I carefully use the term un-holy acts, for not to hurt our sentiments).And that book, has been reprinted in Kannada as pamphlet, and distributed in Mangalore. End results, some 100 Catholic churches were vandalised all across south.Mangalore witnessed a blood bath.Teen age girls in pubs were hit brutally by fundamentalist mobs, as loose morals. How much, does it differ from, asking the head of Jyllands-Posten's editor Flemmings,for a carricature? Surprisingly, since that date,it made a great impact on me, and Im on the quest to find out this answer, 'Can Gods be un-holy". I have tried to pose this question with many scholars,but it all ended up in a sadest note by ducking the question, cos many felt that Im offending them, but none bothered to give me a convincing theological/philosophical answer.I also didnt purse with them,for not being projected as an imaginary enemy..I know this same point has triggered Shri.Nacchinarkinian to get furiuos,even to an extent to make a mass appeal to the forum asking them to stay away.. My worry is, I failed to find an answer to my quest!!...
Why should anyone go around judging and deciding other people's beliefs? Me too worships gods and goddesses with arms. For the longest time, the dominant culture in one section of my family was the one that kept swords in the prayer room with Ugra Narasimha as their tutelar diety. Whatz wrong? I cudn't care if someone were to write negative things about gods and goddesses, its just a culture, and if someone did, no one cares. However, there are jobless ppl like Senas and Dalit groups on two opposite ends that fight over such thing, they can do whatever they want. But they have no right to vandalise public property, pubs, beat up ppl, etc. People will vote such ppl out of power sooner or later. Btw, you seem to be mixing up your pursuit of god with lots of social stuff...
HH,
>>>And Kancha says "we listened for 2000 years" ? This is typical british created propaganda during the colonial times. Even until Maratha times in Tamil nadu, no one seems to have listened to a brahmin.>>
Please go through the real context. He is not blaming brahmins alone. He make 2 sects, ie Top 3 Varna (Vs) last varna and untouchables.
There seems to be a strange co-relation b/w Kancha wanting to hold entire communities responsible for everything and hindu bashing aimed towards christian missionary work....This is an open society, it always had been..no room for guilt or nailing communities. And for the very last time, can you bring up topics for discussion without Kancha in b/w.
>>Me too worships gods and goddesses with arms.>>
In order to stay focussed, we shall discuss this point in 'God Why thread"..Need to do some reading on SooryaNaryana Rao.
Well..it does not mattter to me who writes for or against anything. If God is everywhere, why cannot He/She/It be in the plants we eat, in a stone, in the air we breath, in every mortal, in every idol of a God weilding arms and so on..from my end this is all i have to say on this topic, not inclined to do any morality-assessment or judgement thing.
KRSDear Shri.KRS,here is my warm response (not cold though).
To start with, you dont need to give any benefit of doubt about my previous stands. This is just a discussion forum, and any one is entitled to take any stand,and its perfectly acceptable, as long as we maintain the decorum and forum ethics.. I think I fairly well maintained that. Now,back to the point...
Giving you the benefit of doubt is on my shaping my own personal views. But from the Forum pov, in addition to maintaining decorum and forum ethics, there is the objective of the Forum: to promote the welfare of the TB community. So, if we deem that one's postings are contrary to that objective, we will not allow such postings.
1) Pursuit of God:- From the begining I've been saying this,inspite of many fellow posters, having their own apprehensions about my thoughts. Some called it as hidden agenda too!! Cant help it!!In some sites they called me as untouchable-buddhist, some called me an Evangelist and some one didnt hesitate to call me as Imam. But Im clear on my purusit.
Okay good. I am not convinced that your doing so, based on your many postings here. If you want to pursue God in a site with adherents to a particular religion/philosophy, you would have studied that religion as deeply as one could. You seem like a 'drive by' seeker of God, without putting in any serious work, but intent on creating unnecessary disturbance with your posting of the vile matter from Kancha, creating a so called online polling based on wrong presumptions!
Wonder why!!Are they close-minded,that they dont want to explore the 'Ultimate Truth'? For eg, I was open enough to apologize, towards my Off-the-collar remark over Shri.Adi Shankara. If I was on a mission to paint hinduism on bad light, as you and Shri.Naachinarkinian(I have higest regard for his social knowledge,intellectuality & age) claim so, then I would not have budged, and would have posted the plenty of CTRL C & V articles of JNU professors/Dalitstan sites etc etc, and would have continued arguing my point endlessly. But I didnt do so,cos,deep within me, I was not convinced about my own remarks. I was even open to delete the 'Poll-survey thread' when I felt it was hurting you cos you refused to caste the vote.Off late, I have even appealed to the Super-Moderator to delete the 700+ posts in this same thread,cos its felt, that this allegedly used as a propaganda(as Moderator Naachinarkiniyan claimed).Inspite, Why are you painting me wrong,just because you are forced to respond to some critical questions, which you find difficult, because of your lack of knowledge (no personal remarks here) on that (particular)subject.Why dont you attempt to educate/teach/convince me with the missionary zeal.
First let me answer to your last statement first: Missionary zeal and Hinduism do not go hand in hand, as you know. The problem is while myself and some others are answering you, but you choose either to discard them or to say that there is lack of 'knowledge' on our part. I have answered all your 'critical' questions, except the last one about our Gods carrying arms. Like I did not want to take part in a 'poll' with wrong presumptions, I am not willing to engage in any conversation regarding a vile person's statements which are at best uneducated and worst vulgar.
Sri Nacchinarkiniyan's statement was dead on. There comes a time when a guest has to be told to behave.
I have presented you with some thumb rule formula about declining religious demography, which you disagreed with few logics.. Fine, but then you should have equally attempted to prove me wrong by your own statistics (with varying parameters which would end up in 5th degree differntial equation), to prove your point,that the hindu population is on the increase.. Which you failed to do so.. Based upon the same mathematical points which you raised (even you pricked my Engg degree somehowhere there), could you prove me wrong, with the same kind of data which you sought for? Im shifting the onus on you.. Like how in the courts they say to the Drug Peddlers/TADA criminals,that, the onus is on the 'Accused to prove their innocense"... I know it was a stale-mate, and hence I didnt pursue it futher.. Just making it clear, my objective of that thread is to explore about the allegations what the BJP/Sang Parivar was talking about the conversion from Hinduism.. And I wanted to find an opinion from this forum members.
What! I have clearly proved your math wrong. I have also proved that your thesis on 'Hinduism declining and even slowly dying' to be a wrong presumption. It is not my job to prove an anti thesis to your thesis to show that you are wrong. If you want discussions then first have the proper perspective and put out credible arguments. What you have done so far is to put out wrong hypothesis, deliberately mis quoted slams aaginst Hinduism and Sri Adi Shankara and creating a whole thread based on a vile person's non scholorly and nonsensical book.
If you wanted to find out about conversions, then ask the members directly. No need to couch it in a non sensical 'poll'.
2)yet you would not accept the foundations of monism:- I have told you in the begining,that my pursuit of God is not just alone by faith/dogma, rather by reasoning,logics,worldview & philosophy. To start with, I can regretfully say, you failed to educate me about Monism, and you were only careful,that you dont get trapped in the argument.Reminding me of Karan Thapar!!!
Why should I 'educate' you about Monism? Can I ask you an example of where I was careful? Who is Karan Thapar? And how I reming you of him?
If you are interested in a religion/philosophy, please read first. There are a number of books availble on monism/advaitha.
I thought you would find a common platform to brige the western and eastern philosophies. Unfortunately, you had a mind set that, I have a hidden agenda, just because many of the posters expressed so, and our premises went helter- skelter.
What 'common platform'? Philosophy wise, have you read the 'monism' part of Christianity? Please find out.
I have been answering you step by step patiently till you posted the Kancha interview.
I agree that my knowledge about Eastern Philosophy is limited(except for some good reading I acquired off late about Shri Adi Shankara/Charvaka), cos I relied mostly on the internet and book shops, and unfortunately, they were mostly centred around theist/atheist philosophers like Immanuel Kant/Augustine/Basil/Anselm/Aquinos/Plato/IBN/Avveros/Richard Dawkins/Nietsche, and not the last, the most interesting works of Betrand Russel in 'Why Im not a Christian".If I could read the full works of Russel in my late 20's, do you still think,that, I would be having any hidden agenda??. Having said that, there is a valid point expressed by Shri.Nacchinarkiniyan sometime ago.. He recollected his college days 'Philosophical studies' and said, his philosphical text book didnt carry any chapters about 'Eastern view'.. a valid regret! And equally, I was also extremely cautious in not dragging any religion in to this pursuit of God debate,and thats one reason I used the broad spectrum of Monism/Monotheism/Dualism/Polytheism. If I had any hidden agenda, I would have presented my arguments based on monotheist scriputures,which I never did so.
So, you don't have a hidden agenda. That is good. As I have said, there are a number of books available in India about monism - both western and eastern.
(Contd)
3)you tried to refute Kancha based on monotheism (Arm Wielding gods):- I did my job here with one of the possible philosphies which I could utilise to refute Kancha on 'Arm wielding Gods;.. Infact,even, I had a plan to ask the same question in 'God Why' thread, after finding our conclusion about 'Absolute Justice Nature of God"". But you went in to emotions, instead of refuting him through your expert idea on monism/advaitham.Thats your weakness, respected sir.
Can you point to my going in to 'emotions?' Calling you out for posting the vulgar statements of a vile person is not 'emotional'. It is cold logic based on facts. I can back up each of my statements about Kancha with examples. Remember I have read his book only recently.
Kancha is perfectly right in his point in saying " We listened for 2000 years, but its time you also listen,and people who dont listen will perish". Its a perfect point, I fully agree with him, doesnt matter if it hurts anyone here. Back to the point, I was also googling some info on that point, sporting the hat of 'Monism'.. I couldnt hit any right u.r.l/info.. But I have seen some logical responses from Islam/buddhist view, though not convincing, and once again,I'm continuing my pursuit about truth about God.
Again, Kancha's whole premise about saying that other Hindus have been listening to the upper castes for 2000 years is patently wrong Can not be proved by any facts like all his imaginary assumptions about Hinduism. If you agree with him then I can definitely say that you too are ignorant.
btw,this point of 'Arms wielding Gods needs to be answered'.. I have every reason to ask a response from you, though it was cited in Kancha's writing in a crude-unpolished way..For eg,last year, a Telugu Brahmin by name Sooryanarayana,who got converted to Pentecoastal Christianity released a book called 'SatyaDharshini/Ruju Dharshini(telugu)'questioning the nature of gods in line with 'Arms wielding and Un-holy acts of Gods ( I carefully use the term un-holy acts, for not to hurt our sentiments).And that book, has been reprinted in Kannada as pamphlet, and distributed in Mangalore. End results, some 100 Catholic churches were vandalised all across south.Mangalore witnessed a blood bath.Teen age girls in pubs were hit brutally by fundamentalist mobs, as loose morals. How much, does it differ from, asking the head of Jyllands-Posten's editor Flemmings,for a carricature? Surprisingly, since that date,it made a great impact on me, and Im on the quest to find out this answer, 'Can Gods be un-holy". I have tried to pose this question with many scholars,but it all ended up in a sadest note by ducking the question, cos many felt that Im offending them, but none bothered to give me a convincing theological/philosophical answer.I also didnt purse with them,for not being projected as an imaginary enemy..I know this same point has triggered Shri.Nacchinarkinian to get furiuos,even to an extent to make a mass appeal to the forum asking them to stay away.. My worry is, I failed to find an answer to my quest!!...
I am not interested in getting in to any stupid statements/actions by mad men/idealogues around the world, irrespective of their religions. Just as I reject Kancha I reject the unlawful acts by certain groups in Mangalore whose acts were as vile.
When one is allowed in to a particular Forum as a guest one has the responsibility not to say post things that might overtly offend the sensibilities of the majority of the members.
4) Painting hinduism in bad light:- If I were to discuss the same questions with my parents/folks, Im sure they also would have felt the same way,like you.. Possibly, they would have even called me as Psychic and my schoolmated would have even gone further to claim that, I have forcibly grown old and become a senile pedagogue.Yes, for many average Indians, the pursuit of God is expected happen only in old age..I doubt if some one brands me as 'Kashikkhu Phoora Shanyashi..
There is a difference between asking questions to gain knowledge and making statements and posting material that only bring the negative ideas about a religion.
5)when I challenged it you immediately posted Kancha's usual 'hate Hinduism' Q&A from Rediff:- Take it easy. Most of the times, if I have skipped some of fellow posters lines,that means, I was either in fully agreement with or that respective point didnt carry any sense to the objective of the thread. Also, too much of posts,it would have slipped my eyes.. For eg, I have intentionally not responded to few of the posts of handle H.H (though I enjoyed reading them),just because, I didnt find them relevant to my pursuit.But I never missed to respond to the points,which truly contradicted me.. Anyways, I think,hence forth, I should also acknowledge the points,which I agree with the fellow posters..
Okay.
6)if I wanted to make an enemy out of you I can do it in a second :- In my view, If I wish to make an enemy out of someone, I would love to engage in a warm dialogue.Cos I know, Im on the purusit of 'Truth About God' and even if someone paints me bad, I would continue pursue my Goal.
I nevar said you were 'bad'. I said your intentions may not be 'above board'. Big difference.
So my sincere request is, lets keep aside our personal opinions about others, and rush to head on with an engaging dialogue,in order to explore the mysteries about God. And I know, this forum is indeed a nice place
Then please post credible information from credible sources. Proper dialog will follow.
PS: Somewhere, in the middle of that passage, I saw you addressing me again as 'SIR'.. Dear Sir, from a distance, I can sense that, you are well learned/Polished/refined/diplomatic/well read/seen this world lot more years than me... And with all my humility and humbleness, I once again request you, not to address me as sir.. Matter of fact, it pains me. Otherwise, I have to take that unwarranted salutation as a sarcasm!!
H.H,
Lets move to God Why thread, for a while..
Sorry Sapr, no matter which thread we go to, my stand is clear...am not inclined to judge the worship practices of anyone; whether it includes worship of gods with arms or the promise of 72 houries..all of us just live our culture, i only ask for hinduism and the brahmins to be left alone..neither hinduism nor brahmins had anything to do with suppressing or oppressing anyone... nobody's judgements about anyone's practices is gonna make anyone change their way of life. am not inclined to interfere or ask someone to stop worshipping their kuladeivam ugra narasimha or karuppan or mother kali or anyone..
nobody's judgements about anyone's practices is gonna make anyone change their way of life. ..
If so, then you should be OK with the following.
1) You should be ok if you come across 'Cannabalism'/Robbery as a part of someone's ancient African culture'..
Yes am ok with it. Extinction and evolution is a part of nature. If a man seeks a cannibal prey, it is not without any evolutionary significance. You cannot stop tigers from hunting. Man is essentially a predator animal.
Female infanticide/widow burning may even be acceptable as a part of culture too!!
All humans generally know to value human life. In situations of dire poverty, etc, a man ofcourse will follow his own survival instincts first. Female infanticide and widow burning is not part of any religion. It came about as social practices bcoz of poverty, lack of someone to care for after a husband's death and so on. If one has (or is provided with) a means of survival, these things will not exist.
2) You may/should not be concerned about the 'Intoxicating culture of Dalits, just because its the part of their culture and ritual (or) drug addiction habits of the blacks/Nigerians/Yankees.
You are again confusing b/w religion and social practices. Again, if its a part of their ritual practices, am nobody to judge it. Many shamans used hallucinogens in various cultures in the old world.
But its obvious that in dalits its not any ritual, but a social thing..and its not moderation but addiction...and it is they themselves who need to take some effort for their way of life if they wish to be responsible for their families - they say if you do not control your own destiny, then somebody else will (their own "vice" controls their fate in this, they shd not be blaming anyone for it, if they are); and character is destiny... Sure i can talk to them, provide some support but am not gonna judge them.
3) You have no solutions to those,who resort to robbery in the name of their own God and you wish to be a mute spectator, to those who blast innocents in the name of 72 houries Rathers, you seems to be ok with that, and not bothered about the huge victims, cos you value culture /religious faith, more than, the 'Value for Human Life & Human Dignity"...
Those who blast will continue to blast. Those who save will continue to save. Those who keep away from either will keep away. Everyone has to die someday. Who am i to judge if a guy wants to blast a plane to get 72 houries. Sure i can get angry with him, but i do not think i can change him unless he wants to change himself.
Btw, it has nothing to do with religion, some ppl are genetically predisposed for violence, and they will use religion or anything as an excuse, islam does not preach violence but a section of its adherants want it that way..
4) According to you, WHO/UNICEF/U.N/Red Cross may not have any value, cos they fail to understand your idea of 'Live and Let live' according to the societies own (current) standars of life/culture.
When did i say live and let live means not having value for life?
5) You may wish, that,the Tribals life/culture has to be protected and maintained, and the nude walking Andamanese needs to be preseved as such, so that we pay tickets and go for a safari visiting 'A Human Zoo'? With the spirits of maintaining culture, you may be even OK, if Andamanese dont take the text books.
They tribals of Andaman and Nicobar are best left alone. If they wanna come outta the jungles, then they need to be rehabilitated the appropriate way. How crazy it wud be to think they are a zoo. And text books for what (i thot text books are mere information, not knowledge). How about intimate knowledge of the jungle, its flora and fauna, rain patterns...did that come from text-books.
All of the tribes of the andaman / nicobar need to be protected, contact with other humans is causing them diseases resulting in their extinction (and btw, some tribes are asian M, perhaps that's how most of us wud have been in some very ancient past). http://www.andaman.org/BOOK/reprints/thangaraj/rep-thangaraj.htm
6)You could even say, Allies shouldnt have bombarded Nazis& Hitler, cos he too had a good faith, and worked towards bringing up the supremacy of Aryan Race & enrichment of Pure German culture.
If you wanna "judge" it, can you change it?
Having said that, if you believe,in the ideology , that, There is no 'Freewill' and 'We are all just puppets in the God's play, and every thing happening around is to attributed to 'Fate/vidhi(tamil), then you are perfectly right!.
Not sure i can explain non-fatalistic 'freewill' (there is a saying that when a man wishes, he is the master of his own fate) but yep, all world's a stage..contradictions are a way of life, for there is not just duality in nature, but multiplicity..
