what is the difference between non violence and weakness ?

[renuka]

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Sometimes we just need to shoot the brains out of some if we really need peace.

To me too much of so called Non Violence breeds some amount fear.

To a certain extent fear is growing among those who practice "Non Violence" cos many are just avoiding stepping on the toes of others.Thats not really Non Violence thats just Avoidance.


Personally I feel sometimes the Firing Squad does much better job then hiding behind the cloak of Non Violence.

Somehow I always admired Nathuram Vinayak Godse.

 

[T.S.Sankara Narayanan]

Somehow I always admired Nathuram Vinayak Godse.[/QUOTE]

Thank You Madam Renu for You have Admired N.V.Gotse.

If I were born 20 years before I would have killed Gandhi for he is against Hindus,in disguise of saying the Bloody Secularism.

 

[renuka]

Dear T.S Shankara Narayanan,


Hush my dear...others can hear you..thats why always weave messages where no one really knows whats in our mind.Its not fear..but strategy.To be "Violent" we need to appear "Non Violent".That paralyses the "enemy".

Didnt I write :

Sometimes we just need to shoot the brains out of some if we really need peace.
To me too much of so called Non Violence breeds some amount fear.

So that way I guess we think alike.

 

[Yamaka]

Sometimes we just need to shoot the brains out of some if we really need peace.

To me too much of so called Non Violence breeds some amount fear.

To a certain extent fear is growing among those who practice "Non Violence" cos many are just avoiding stepping on the toes of others.Thats not really Non Violence thats just Avoidance.


Personally I feel sometimes the Firing Squad does much better job then hiding behind the cloak of Non Violence.

Somehow I always admired Nathuram Vinayak Godse.

I really see the canons of Sanatana Dharma fully exhibited here! LOL.

Watch out!

 

[renuka]

I really see the canons of Sanatana Dharma fully exhibited here! LOL.

Watch out!

Yo dude you got it right!!!

 

[Yamaka]

Somehow I always admired Nathuram Vinayak Godse.

Thank You Madam Renu for You have Admired N.V.Gotse.

If I were born 20 years before I would have killed Gandhi for he is against Hindus,in disguise of saying the Bloody Secularism.[/QUOTE]

Wow... what an admiring anti-Gandhi propagandist!

Way to go and spread the Sanatana Dharma!!

People's true colors are seen in broad day light!!

 

[Yamaka]

Dear Mr. Sravna:

Can you please comment on posts #26, #27 and #28?

Thanks.

Y

 

[renuka]

Only one color dear Yamaka..The color Red which needs to be split sometimes.

 

[Yamaka]

Only one color dear Yamaka..The color Red which needs to be split sometimes.

Hi Renukka:

Do you have high affinity for hemoglobins? How bloody your hands are!!

Good for you! LOL

Enjoy the bloody hands!

 

[ShivKC]

Sometimes we just need to shoot the brains out of some if we really need peace.

To me too much of so called Non Violence breeds some amount fear.

To a certain extent fear is growing among those who practice "Non Violence" cos many are just avoiding stepping on the toes of others.Thats not really Non Violence thats just Avoidance.


Personally I feel sometimes the Firing Squad does much better job then hiding behind the cloak of Non Violence.

Somehow I always admired Nathuram Vinayak Godse.

doc, you are perfectly entitled to praise godse, and being pro for a man with a gun than the one who follows non violence.

but, equally, i'm also entitled to ask you to justify your statement with eg..

awaiting

 

[sangom]

Violent or non-violent I may be, but I am of the considered view that Gandhi, the original was an avoidable disaster for India. He hijacked the original INC and spoiled it beyond all recognition and his cranky ideologies resulted in one of the bloodiest massacres in history, partition of a country and a weak-kneed policy for the GOI towards almost all important issues, so much so that the international community may well consider India like a country of neuter gender.

 

[renuka]

Hi Renukka:

Do you have high affinity for hemoglobins? How bloody your hands are!!

Good for you! LOL

Enjoy the bloody hands!

You know what Yamaka..I love handling Blood Clots especially the big ones in Post Mortems.
Its as smooth as Jelly(Jello in USA) and when its feels nice to hold in hand but with gloves off course.
You just have to feel it to know..

 

[renuka]

doc, you are perfectly entitled to praise godse, and being pro for a man with a gun than the one who follows non violence.

but, equally, i'm also entitled to ask you to justify your statement with eg..

awaiting

I dont think the man with the gun was "violent".
Thats just action.

Sometimes to save a persons life a surgeon needs to remove the pathological causative factor eg amputating the limb of a patient.

What appears to be an act of so called "violence" sometimes yields good in the long run.

I guess the man with the gun imbibed the message "Sab Ko San Mathi Dey Bhagawan" well.

 

[niyengaar]

I dont think the man with the gun was "violent".
Thats just action.

Sometimes to save a persons life a surgeon needs to remove the pathological causative factor eg amputating the limb of a patient.

What appears to be an act of so called "violence" sometimes yields good in the long run.

I guess the man with the gun imbibed the message "Sab Ko San Mathi Dey Bhagawan" well.

Again before going on with Violence Vs Non Violence, can people come to a conclusion on the differences between Non Violence and Weakness ?

Because, once the concepts are clear, the difference between Violence and Safe guarding will be easier to understand.


p.s. : btw Renu, was expecting you here a lot earlier sis ...

 

[renuka]

Again before going on with Violence Vs Non Violence, can people come to a conclusion on the differences between Non Violence and Weakness ?

Because, once the concepts are clear, the difference between Violence and Safe guarding will be easier to understand.


p.s. : btw Renu, was expecting you here a lot earlier sis ...

I was in India for a few days and only now I am free to participate again and also busy juggling work and studying for my Sanskrit Diploma..I have to appear for 1st part exam in Feb 2012.

I will participate more now.I will make time somehow in between study and patients.

 

[renuka]

Ok let me have a go at Comparing and Contrasting Non Violence and Weakness.

Non Violence

1)Sattva Quality and Non Violence applies for Thought, Word and Deed.
2)Appear calm and composed.
3)Mind-- alert.
4)Has benefit of all in mind.
5)Not Fickle minded.
6)Able to be equiposed in all situations.
7)Selfless.
8)Sticks to Svadharma.
9)Doesnt need Fame.
10)Niraashraya(Independent)




Weakness

1)Tamas Quality
2)May appear calm outwardly but will be "shaking" inside.May even try to act superior to cover up own insecurity.
3)Mind not too alert but rather not much of a direction.
4)Thinks of only oneself and not for benefit of all.
5)Fickle minded..always looking for a chance to escape any situation.
6)Panics in challenging situations and badly affected by loss or gain.
7)Selfish most of the while..thinks of their own kit and kin and tribe.
8)Doesn't stick to Svadharma.
9)Looks for Fame.
10)Totally dependent(Needs back up of others to survive)

 

[niyengaar]

I was in India for a few days and only now I am free to participate again and also busy juggling work and studying for my Sanskrit Diploma..I have to appear for 1st part exam in Feb 2012.

I will participate more now.I will make time somehow in between study and patients.

1. all the best.

2. "in between study and patients" - ??? - LOLs - you sure have the right measure of this place ...


i know that u r a doc but i was jus reading through lines there ...

 

[niyengaar]

This is a really good topic.

Society would be much better off if it understands that non-violence is a great strength and not a weakness. To me non-violence is non-physical and non-aggressive means of fighting for your cause. Non violent methods should meet the following criteria. It should have a moral force driving it and it should appeal to those people on whose behalf the fight is made.

It is as I said in my previous post not fought with physical force but with intellectual force. It should not be construed as weakness just because physical force is not used. That is backward thinking.

Mahatma Gandhi practiced non violence in a very effective manner and was responsible for that approach taking roots in India. I think human society has to learn more lessons in giving up violence and aggression as a means of a fight. India can be proud and almost the whole credit goes to Gandhi, as a country where peaceful protests can achieve its objectives.

nicely put, Shri sravna.

btw, anybody else with otehr opinions on , the following ?

is keeping quiet at all times, non violence ?
will that make the ones fighting for their rights, violent ?
If the enemy is stronger and we still keep quiet, is that weakness or non violence ?
If the adversary is going to injure / hurt / kill us , will that be our weakness or non violence. Both mr Ghandhi and Mr Jesus, were injured and killed.
If keeping quiet is going to allow the injustice to carry on, what is the use / meaning of keeping quiet at all ?
and is keeping quiet the right way of showing non violence ? because Ghandhi Ji did not keep quiet - but fought for a cause. So, can we fight but still be non violent ?

 

[sravna]

Dear Yamaka,

This is my reply to Renuka and Shri.Sankara Narayanan's posts:

There are two ways of treatment of a problem in general. One is you try to suppress the effect, the other is you try to remove the cause. The former is done by force or violence and the latter by intelligence. Generally non violent methods since there is no use of force is achieved by intelligence. If the practitoner of non violence is really wise the solution is likely to be long lasting and with out any side effects.

As a specific example, the treatments by force and intelligence may seen to correspond with the philosophy of allopathic and ayurvedic approaches respectively. The former tries to suppress the effects and gives rise to numerous side effects while the latter tries the right approach of addressing the cause. This philosophy of treatment by force is ubiquitous in western approaches to any problem whereas the philosophy of non violence has its roots in India.

 

[sravna]

nicely put, Shri sravna.

btw, anybody else with otehr opinions on , the following ?

is keeping quiet at all times, non violence ?
will that make the ones fighting for their rights, violent ?
If the enemy is stronger and we still keep quiet, is that weakness or non violence ?
If the adversary is going to injure / hurt / kill us , will that be our weakness or non violence. Both mr Ghandhi and Mr Jesus, were injured and killed.
If keeping quiet is going to allow the injustice to carry on, what is the use / meaning of keeping quiet at all ?
and is keeping quiet the right way of showing non violence ? because Ghandhi Ji did not keep quiet - but fought for a cause. So, can we fight but still be non violent ?

Both Jesus and Gandhi were killed by violent adversaries and that makes non violence seem somewhat weak. The point is whether such force can be countered in some way. For example you can have, as a crusader, mass support firmly behind you and the adversry whether the establishment or something else gets countered considerably. It is up to you to strengthen yourself in non violent ways against the use of force. In the case of Gandhi he did have the mass support against the british but had divided support for the cause he lost his life. Also, I think the danger to your life is more when you indulge in violence than while being non violent.

 

[itsmesiva]

Before fast (hunger strike) - Nonviolence
After fast - Weakness !!

 

[renuka]

nicely put, Shri sravna.

btw, anybody else with otehr opinions on , the following ?

is keeping quiet at all times, non violence ?
will that make the ones fighting for their rights, violent ?
If the enemy is stronger and we still keep quiet, is that weakness or non violence ?
If the adversary is going to injure / hurt / kill us , will that be our weakness or non violence. Both mr Ghandhi and Mr Jesus, were injured and killed.
If keeping quiet is going to allow the injustice to carry on, what is the use / meaning of keeping quiet at all ?
and is keeping quiet the right way of showing non violence ? because Ghandhi Ji did not keep quiet - but fought for a cause. So, can we fight but still be non violent ?

Of course we can fight and be a rebel with a cause in a non violent way but most of the while many who adopt this method also are looking for fame to be called some Mahatma eventually cos they fear their own life(some exceptions are there)

There was always a doubt that Gandhi didnt do enough for Bhagat Singh.
Reason??Personal interest?or not to happy that his Ahimsa policy will get
derailed with a brave warrior like Bhagat?

 

[renuka]

I will give everyone a simple example..Just imagine a person breaks into our home at night armed with weapons and threatening to kill,rape ,loot etc and he has cut off even the phone lines,electricity etc.

Will we still apply "Non Violence" as in keeping quiet and thinking how to handle this and sing "Sab Ko San Mathi Dey Bhagawan?"
I can be 100% sure anyone will fight back in a strategic manner till we paralyze the offender cos its our family and life at stake here.

Same way..any intruder that destabilizes the safety of the nation has to be dealt in the same manner.

Vettu Onnu Thundu Rendu policy is not always Himsa(Violence).Its just Ahimsa turned inside out!!

 

[sravna]

I will give everyone a simple example..Just imagine a person breaks into our home at night armed with weapons and threatening to kill,rape ,loot etc and he has cut off even the phone lines,electricity etc.

Will we still apply "Non Violence" as in keeping quiet and thinking how to handle this and sing "Sab Ko San Mathi Dey Bhagawan?"
I can be 100% sure anyone will fight back in a strategic manner till we paralyze the offender cos its our family and life at stake here.

Same way..any intruder that destabilizes the safety of the nation has to be dealt in the same manner.

Vettu Onnu Thundu Rendu policy is not always Himsa(Violence).Its just Ahimsa turned inside out!!

Dear Renuka,

I think the question is whether the inclination towards non violence is out of weakness or not. I think it is not. Even in the above situation of someone breaking into our house and threatening us with weapons , quick thinking is a far greater asset than the display of physical force. Even the mightiest of weapons in my opinion cannot harm a person who can outhtink his opponents. The weapon of thought on day is superior to any conceivable physical weapon.

 

[renuka]

Dear Renuka,

I think the question is whether the inclination towards non violence is out of weakness or not. I think it is not. Even in the above situation of someone breaking into our house and threatening us with weapons , quick thinking is a far greater asset than the display of physical force. Even the mightiest of weapons in my opinion cannot harm a person who can outhtink his opponents. The weapon of thought on day is superior to any conceivable physical weapon.

I get what you mean Srvana.Non Violence does not mean inaction but rather well planned strategic action.

But when face to face with a bullet..unless we are Vijaykanth that can avoid bullets ala Matrix I dont think anyone of us are going to stand there thinking that the mind is mightier than the bullet.
Its either Fight or Flight and the body comes well equipped with Adrenaline for the Fight or Flight response.