Wedding rituals

[pbkhema]

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As far as my studies go there is no prescription in the Smritis for Mangalya Dharanam.
But some eminent pundits of the 2oth Century have tried togive an explanation for it,.But as far as the Sutra and Smritis go Sapthapathi is the most important and without performing the same marriages are not complete
Now on a lighter not the wedding rituals for Xians in Tamil Nadu has been suitably modified by their priests and instead if "with this ring I thee wed" they have substituted "with this thali i thee wed"

 

[malgova.mango]

pbkhema!

have you read - sathyavan savithri puranam. We have KARADAYAN NOMBU culture where one ties the mangalya sutra .

could there be a link from there ?

Thanks

Regards

 

[s007bala]

re

As far as my studies go there is no prescription in the Smritis for Mangalya Dharanam.
But some eminent pundits of the 2oth Century have tried togive an explanation for it,.But as far as the Sutra and Smritis go Sapthapathi is the most important and without performing the same marriages are not complete
Now on a lighter not the wedding rituals for Xians in Tamil Nadu has been suitably modified by their priests and instead if "with this ring I thee wed" they have substituted "with this thali i thee wed"

But, secretly, most men do seem to care about whether their wives want to wear a "thaali" or not, its just that the circumstances in today's lifestyle are such that he has to make his wife have the final word on that!

http://mitrideas.blogspot.com/2006/11/thaali-aka-mangalsutra-no-strings.html

even here in the USA married men and women,wear the ring symbolising that they are married.but there are some here too who do not wear rings.i guess,its the thought that finally counts or is it the hearts which matters or is it any other organ?hmmm,thali seems to become a 'kali' in kaliyugam

sb

 

[Nacchinarkiniyan]

I had posted that Mangla Sutra or Thali is not prescribed in the Smiritis or Dharma Sasthra. The importance of this question is shown by the fact that a magazine like "Alayam" had posted the reader's question to the Sasthirigals. He gave an explanation, but side tracked the issue of Sasthras.

Does it reduce the importance of Mangala Sutra? It does not. I had stated clearly earlier that it is part of our Sampradhaya or tradition. I am unable to comprehend the reaction of some our members as if I had asked all the Brahmin women to discard the Thali. Definitely not.

There are many practices which are based on tradition or Sampradhaya. These are at times called by some cynics as the Caste rules. These are very important. Many of these are not based on any Sasthra. When the younger generation asks us about certain traditions we should be able to say clearly which is based on Sasthra and which ones on Sampradhaya.

There is no point in saying that all our practices are based on Sasthras. They are not.

This thread started with a member calling Maali Mathhal and OOnjal as unnecessary customs.

Customs are traditions/Samparadhayas.

Where do we draw the line?

Who will decide what is necessary and unnecessary custom/tradition?

Are we not opening a Pandora's Box here?

 

[happyhindu]

This post is with due apologies to Sri-N-ji and other posters on this thread. It is being made bcoz the post quoted below is present on this thread.

i thought abt it carefully and decided to make this allegation. Here it is:

i suppose according to your reserach tamizhs wearing rings and ma sita was wearing frocks and rama a gun toting mlecha,hmpff...:tape:

sb

why wud a man who claims to worship rama and krishna, comment like this, minus the semi-sanity part.

one can call this man a mlecha, but wud a brahmin (who claims to worship rama and krishna) call rama a mlecha, even if he wants to belittle sri n-ji's post or has lost his head.

(to me) this sounds more like a kazhagam gunda rogue speaking - and i am entitled to my opinion.

i hope he can go make a comment on sita and frocks in the godavari region like this.

sitaamma ni nuvvu akkada anta chuka maatram avamaryada chestay neeku yentha dabbalu padthunnaiyani nuvvay yenchukogalavu (if u try to insult sita ma even a wee pinch there you cannot count the number of blows that will rain on you). try telling them you are a brahmin...lemme know if even one person believes it and stops.

 

[malgova.mango]

phkhema!

thinking about swayamwarams of old days... the bride would offer flower garland to the groom she desires.. like sitamma to rammappa...

the very act is a good expression of Love - so our elders would have adopted this beauty.

we need some kind of restraint to curb our raw likes and dislikes - for people of low-discipline literally ropes are used to control them, as we grow gentle people symbolically use a fine thread to restrain their actions.

so for a male it is - poonal, and for a female it is thaali, as a reminder for self-discipline.

just sharing some thoughts..

regards

 

[suvarchas]

I had posted that Mangla Sutra or Thali is not prescribed in the Smiritis or Dharma Sasthra. The importance of this question is shown by the fact that a magazine like "Alayam" had posted the reader's question to the Sasthirigals. He gave an explanation, but side tracked the issue of Sasthras.

Does it reduce the importance of Mangala Sutra? It does not. I had stated clearly earlier that it is part of our Sampradhaya or tradition. I am unable to comprehend the reaction of some our members as if I had asked all the Brahmin women to discard the Thali. Definitely not.

There are many practices which are based on tradition or Sampradhaya. These are at times called by some cynics as the Caste rules. These are very important. Many of these are not based on any Sasthra. When the younger generation asks us about certain traditions we should be able to say clearly which is based on Sasthra and which ones on Sampradhaya.

There is no point in saying that all our practices are based on Sasthras. They are not.

This thread started with a member calling Maali Mathhal and OOnjal as unnecessary customs.

Customs are traditions/Samparadhayas.

Where do we draw the line?

Who will decide what is necessary and unnecessary custom/tradition?

Are we not opening a Pandora's Box here?

I understand the Mangalya dharanam may not be followed in the north,but as mentioned in Apasthamba sutras,even a sampradaya observed for several years or even any ritual adopted or advised to be done by the fourth varna,has to be respected and it has the sanction of Apasthamba sutra

 

[arkay]

let the hot topic discussion go on for ever,calling names part of the game,hope we
nevr recognise each other when we come together in person

 

[arkay]

phkhema!

thinking about swayamwarams of old days... the bride would offer flower garland to the groom she desires.. like sitamma to rammappa...

the very act is a good expression of Love - so our elders would have adopted this beauty.

we need some kind of restraint to curb our raw likes and dislikes - for people of low-discipline literally ropes are used to control them, as we grow gentle people symbolically use a fine thread to restrain their actions.

so for a male it is - poonal, and for a female it is thaali, as a reminder for self-discipline.

just sharing some thoughts..

regards

boys wear poonal as young as 7/10
girls may go out of control b4 marriage

 

[pbkhema]

I started the thread only to show how our customs are far from the smritis.
I do not regularly log in and reply at once.
Now my firsy point was the Maalai Mathal brings down the grade of the ceremony
Nischayathatam is not know in the trafirion.In fact to reply to one of the posts only in the past few years (sat abou 15) malai maathal during Nischyathrathamtakes place.In my time it was not so
Regarding Satyavan Savitri I do not find any mention about Mangalyam there.She fought for the life of her husband.Karadayan noombu the ladies tie Noombu Charadu.No tirumangalyam there
Swayamvarams were different
Strictly accoding to the Smritis a Brammachari who has finished his studies sends his friends to look out for a bride for him with the precribed qualifications.The friend locates the bride.Then the brides father follows up

 

[s007bala]

re

I started the thread only to show how our customs are far from the smritis.
I do not regularly log in and reply at once.
Now my firsy point was the Maalai Mathal brings down the grade of the ceremony
Nischayathatam is not know in the trafirion.In fact to reply to one of the posts only in the past few years (sat abou 15) malai maathal during Nischyathrathamtakes place.In my time it was not so
Regarding Satyavan Savitri I do not find any mention about Mangalyam there.She fought for the life of her husband.Karadayan noombu the ladies tie Noombu Charadu.No tirumangalyam there
Swayamvarams were different
Strictly accoding to the Smritis a Brammachari who has finished his studies sends his friends to look out for a bride for him with the precribed qualifications.The friend locates the bride.Then the brides father follows up

hema

we are living in 5111 kali yugam calendar=2009 gregorian calendar .at this time we follow all this.if you want to time travel to before 5111 KY ,you and others are more than welcome to do so.i for one will follow my gurukkals advice-period.

sb

 

[s007bala]

re

let the hot topic discussion go on for ever,calling names part of the game,hope we
nevr recognise each other when we come together in person

ayyo rk

you are missing the thrill here,when we actually meet in person,we will show our true colors literally thru our aura as proved by kirilian technology of the russians,which our ancients rishis have talked ,written smiritis in volumes.

sb

 

[s007bala]

re

I had posted that Mangla Sutra or Thali is not prescribed in the Smiritis or Dharma Sasthra. The importance of this question is shown by the fact that a magazine like "Alayam" had posted the reader's question to the Sasthirigals. He gave an explanation, but side tracked the issue of Sasthras.

intelligent sashtrigals.

Does it reduce the importance of Mangala Sutra? It does not. I had stated clearly earlier that it is part of our Sampradhaya or tradition. I am unable to comprehend the reaction of some our members as if I had asked all the Brahmin women to discard the Thali. Definitely not.

i think you are inability to express properly as per etiquette set by few is landing you into this situation.take it easy N...

There are many practices which are based on tradition or Sampradhaya. These are at times called by some cynics as the Caste rules. These are very important. Many of these are not based on any Sasthra. When the younger generation asks us about certain traditions we should be able to say clearly which is based on Sasthra and which ones on Sampradhaya.

younger generation have a mind of their own.respect it.and get respect.

There is no point in saying that all our practices are based on Sasthras. They are not.

who is saying this according to you?

This thread started with a member calling Maali Mathhal and OOnjal as unnecessary customs.

Customs are traditions/Samparadhayas.

Where do we draw the line?

Who will decide what is necessary and unnecessary custom/tradition?

Are we not opening a Pandora's Box here?

its the memebers thread expressing their opinion.whats wrong with that?

everyone knows where to draw lines,just like you.isn't it?

if a person like mahaswamigal who lived for 100 years governing a matth for 87 years only involved about sanathana dharma,for the welfare of sarva lokas samasthas sukhino bhavanthu,who else will be the standard?if you feel your sampradaya guru is better qualified,then do follow his instruction or don't follow his instructions,right!!let people live as per their own common sense,a leader will sprout as per geetaponishadham of lord krishna.just relax.

sb

 

[malgova.mango]

pbkhema!

i agree with you, the whole nischayatartam just before the marraige is an unnecessary one.

i mean the next day is the marraige -

i actually suggest all the rituals to observe in one's griham itself no - need to invite everyone for that - just a handful from each side for the rituals.

and give a reception - one evening for the society.

that'll cut those unnecessary expenses and also rituals can be neatly performed.

each grihastas should be advised on the benefits of pancha maha-yagyam and the practical ways to incorporate in modern times ..

the very essence of married life lies in the support he extend to society by pancha maha -yagyas.

So i'm with you to discard any unnecessary and farcious aspects relating to the ceremony and to concenrate on the core essence..

This is another important feature to be corrected...

just my opinion...

regards

 

[Nacchinarkiniyan]

I started the thread only to show how our customs are far from the smritis.
I do not regularly log in and reply at once.
Now my firsy point was the Maalai Mathal brings down the grade of the ceremony
Nischayathatam is not know in the trafirion.In fact to reply to one of the posts only in the past few years (sat abou 15) malai maathal during Nischyathrathamtakes place.In my time it was not so
Regarding Satyavan Savitri I do not find any mention about Mangalyam there.She fought for the life of her husband.Karadayan noombu the ladies tie Noombu Charadu.No tirumangalyam there
Swayamvarams were different
Strictly accoding to the Smritis a Brammachari who has finished his studies sends his friends to look out for a bride for him with the precribed qualifications.The friend locates the bride.Then the brides father follows up

Nistchayathartham did take place earlier. The Bride's parents went to the Groom's place and then the marriage was agreed in the presence of the elders of both the families and the village. But neither the Bride or Groom was involved. That is how my Nistchayathartham took place.

The exchange of garlands is a new trend. I had ensured that it did not take place during my son's Nistchayathartham.

Another very disturbing custom which has come into vogue is the holding of the reception the day before the marriage. I am told that this is done to save on the cost of the marriage hall. I had told my Sambanthi that this was not acceptable to us.

Again Nandhi sraddham to remember and thank the ancestors is a must before Upanayanam and Marriage. But people are giving it a go by. My sambanthi was surprised when I insisted on this.

Many of these, I feel are individual decisions. What we can do do is creating an awareness. That is what you are doing. Then it is upto the individual to follow or not to follow the tradition.

Even reciting the Mantras during marriage has not been given due importance. People are surprised when we insist on the Mantras being said very clearly by the Groom and the Sasthirigal. Then the groom has to understand the importance of the mantras.

 

[malgova.mango]

boys wear poonal as young as 7/10
girls may go out of control b4 marriage

catch them young

 

[pbkhema]

I DO NOT UNDERSTAND WHAT S007 BALA SAYING HE WILL FOLLOW HIS GURUKKALS.i THOUGHT GURUKALS WERE TEMPLE PRIESTS AND SASTIGALS ARE DOMESTIC PRIESTS
I have talked with a lot of them they know the mantras like parrots and they know the prayogam.Hardly 1% of them know the meaing of the mantras they recite.Some of us should step in and reduce the unnecessary rituals.
If as one of the posts said we are living in a different age the different age also provides for other forms of marraige withour the sastric ones.
I wonder how many have attented an Arya Samaj wedidng.I had the oppertunity to attend one.The officiating (priest?) person gave the meaning of the mantra and then asked the groom/bride to say the mantra.

 

[s007bala]

re

I DO NOT UNDERSTAND WHAT S007 BALA SAYING HE WILL FOLLOW HIS GURUKKALS.i THOUGHT GURUKALS WERE TEMPLE PRIESTS AND SASTIGALS ARE DOMESTIC PRIESTS

think again.

I have talked with a lot of them they know the mantras like parrots and they know the prayogam.Hardly 1% of them know the meaing of the mantras they recite.Some of us should step in and reduce the unnecessary rituals.

since when parrots started saying or chanting mantrams?

what is the number you are talking about ,since you mention 1%?

have you presented a research paper?to prove with so much conviction and have got it approved by the brahmana sabha worldover?
or is it your opinion?

plz do not mis-understand my sincere queries to you,as your opinion is very important to me.thnx.

If as one of the posts said we are living in a different age the different age also provides for other forms of marraige withour the sastric ones.

did not understand this para.

I wonder how many have attented an Arya Samaj wedidng.I had the oppertunity to attend one.The officiating (priest?) person gave the meaning of the mantra and then asked the groom/bride to say the mantra.

our gurukkals also mention this during our marriages.our family priest who conducted marriage for my parents too ,conducted my marriage and explained each and everything.now its a different matter,how much i could grasp,remember...etc but the fact remains my gurukkal explained the rituals,sampradayams..much to the irritation of brides family members,who were more conecrned about the hospitality of offering food to friends & families,which was done simply brilliantly too.

sb

 

[suvarchas]

pbkhema!

i agree with you, the whole nischayatartam just before the marraige is an unnecessary one.

i mean the next day is the marraige -

i actually suggest all the rituals to observe in one's griham itself no - need to invite everyone for that - just a handful from each side for the rituals.

and give a reception - one evening for the society.

that'll cut those unnecessary expenses and also rituals can be neatly performed.


each grihastas should be advised on the benefits of pancha maha-yagyam and the practical ways to incorporate in modern times ..

the very essence of married life lies in the support he extend to society by pancha maha -yagyas.

So i'm with you to discard any unnecessary and farcious aspects relating to the ceremony and to concenrate on the core essence..

This is another important feature to be corrected...

just my opinion...

regards

I agree that unnecessary rituals may be curbed,but at the same time the practice of having one day marriage has come to stay and this has to be changed if Brahmanyam is to be retained in future generations.A four day rituals not in Mantapam but at the bride grooms residence to perform Aupasanam and the shesha homam at the dawn on fourth day followed by Nuptial on suitable muhurtha is essential
We all think of the celebrations but not of the future welfare of children who are going to live for another 50 years or so.In my view our efforts should be in those lines so that as a concept itself would be known and that the belief is that it ensures their prosperity.For the views of Hon'ble members,I had a four day marriage just two decades back.It is stil possible and there are qualified pundits to conduct that

 

[s007bala]

re

pbkhema!

i agree with you, the whole nischayatartam just before the marraige is an unnecessary one.

it all depends upon the custom and tradition.

i mean the next day is the marraige -

i actually suggest all the rituals to observe in one's griham itself no - need to invite everyone for that - just a handful from each side for the rituals.

and give a reception - one evening for the society.

this is a brilliant suggestion.a genius i must say.

that'll cut those unnecessary expenses and also rituals can be neatly performed.

each grihastas should be advised on the benefits of pancha maha-yagyam and the practical ways to incorporate in modern times ..

the very essence of married life lies in the support he extend to society by pancha maha -yagyas.

true.

So i'm with you to discard any unnecessary and farcious aspects relating to the ceremony and to concenrate on the core essence..

This is another important feature to be corrected...

just my opinion...

regards

people who have enuff wealth have set standards which are totally absurd.a man toils hard and amasses wealth becoz his community dowry system exists.the dowry system has a particular meaning from different time era,when women were shunted to kitchen,child-bearing....etc.so if she becomes a widow or by giving enuff wealth during marriage,ensures at least some respect in her 'pooguntha veedu' relationship.

ceremonial procedures gives atma balam,deha balam...just to name a couple of vishayam.

sb

 

[tbs]

it all depends upon the custom and tradition.



this is a brilliant suggestion.a genius i must say.



true.



people who have enuff wealth have set standards which are totally absurd.a man toils hard and amasses wealth becoz his community dowry system exists.the dowry system has a particular meaning from different time era,when women were shunted to kitchen,child-bearing....etc.so if she becomes a widow or by giving enuff wealth during marriage,ensures at least some respect in her 'pooguntha veedu' relationship.

ceremonial procedures gives atma balam,deha balam...just to name a couple of vishayam.

sb

hi all,
i my self conducted many marriage ceremonies in USA ....here we give
important for more rituals with proper explanation in english...now a days vedic part
is getting less importance than loukikam...even we try proper explanation
of SAPTAPADHI...pradanahomam/ saptapadhi(wedding vows) are more
important....i agreed with nandhi sradham too...even inhindu marriage act..
there is no marriage is valid without saptapadhi....very beautifully
explained vedas....

regards

 

[malgova.mango]

tbs sir!

please enlighten us on the crucial role of - pancha maha yagya - for the benefit of all grihastas...

valluvar has said 1-3/4 line on this .

please detail on the beauty of this practice....

regards

 

[tbs]

tbs sir!

please enlighten us on the crucial role of - pancha maha yagya - for the benefit of all grihastas...

valluvar has said 1-3/4 line on this .

please detail on the beauty of this practice....

regards

Respected MM sir,
the pancha maha yagynas are........DEVA YAGYNA...PITUR YAGYNA..
MANUSHYA YAGYNA...BHOOTA YAGYNA...BRAHMA YAGYNA..
these five daily yagynas very important for grihasthass..

deva yagynas are daily worship for kula devatas/grama devatas/ ista devatas...
pitur yagyna means for our ancestors daily worship like giving
food/rice for crow( kakaitu sadham poduthal) etc..
Manushya yagyna means worshipping guests(athithi)or brahmachari/
sanyasins...
bhoota yagynas means worshing pancha bhootas (five natural elements)
Brahma yagynas is doing tarpanam according to brahma jagynam..

so these important for grihasthas for communal harmony/duty towards
community...

regards

 

[malgova.mango]

dear tbs sir,

bhoota yagyam is giving some thing to animal kingdom - i thought.

any tradition in worshipping pancha bhootas to cultivate as daily practice.

as for rishi yagyam (bramha), can it be done by feeding brahmachari and sanyasis

regards

 

[s007bala]

re

m m

imho,

as for rishi yagyam (bramha), can it be done by feeding brahmachari and sanyasis

whether its brahma-achari,sa-nyasi,or any jeevi or atma is suffice for yagam,as agni=energy is predominant in all.when we start differentiating,then classification starts,whereas its sarvam brahman-arpanamastu.

sb