Truth

[Seshadri Subramaniam]

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Please dont wrap up these thoughts to round it off as advaitham... it is not so...

Your explanation seems incomplete...

 

[Seshadri Subramaniam]

Seems that it is only a matter of perception... that is why I opined that there is no right and wrong... all are relative...

Some look at the impetus and say that it is brahman... some look at matter alone and some look at energy alone.. and others who look at a combination of the above....

 

[Seshadri Subramaniam]

And hence, dhvaitham, adhvaitham, vishishtadhvaitham are all right in their own perspective...

 

[vivekam.vairagyam]

the more into illusion , the more u see .....

 

[vivekam.vairagyam]

What is nirguna brahman? If it was nirguna, then why did it transform? There is no necessity as it is nirguna...!!!

no one sed it transformed , that is why transformation is an illusion

 

[Seshadri Subramaniam]

I think we can agree to disagree...

 

[s007bala]

>>If it was nirguna, then why did it transform? <<

That is a million dollar question and nobody is paying me million dollars,Shri Seshadri. hmm

sb

 

[Seshadri Subramaniam]

Shri sb, that is why i associate it with a guna... for without it, there is no creation...

 

[s007bala]

Shri Seshadri

Nir - Guna,doesn't it mean,that which is guna-less or no gunam.Brahman is prevalent visibly or invisibly,in all.Whether created,sustained or destroyed.Brahman is neither created nor sustained nor destroyed,is my itty bitty Brahman understanding.Even if i don't understand Brahman,Brahman understands.As everything is Brahman.As a Brahmin by birth,genetic orientation,spiritual consciouness,i am supposed to have a goal of Brahma Gyaanam.Whether i have it ( understanding ) or not,Brahman has me.

sb

 

[Seshadri Subramaniam]

Nir - Guna,doesn't it mean,that which is guna-less or no gunam.Brahman is prevalent visibly or invisibly,in all.Whether created,sustained or destroyed.Brahman is neither created nor sustained nor destroyed,is my itty bitty Brahman understanding.Even if i don't understand Brahman,Brahman understands.As everything is Brahman.As a Brahmin by birth,genetic orientation,spiritual consciouness,i am supposed to have a goal of Brahma Gyaanam.Whether i have it ( understanding ) or not,Brahman has me.

I do not negate your views... but the adhvaithins tend to associate a brahman that is devoid of any gunas ie., guna-less...

In a way, scientists researchers and philosophers are brahma gnyanis... as they tend to explore the Brahman - spiritual or material (which is the entirety of the universe)...

 

[Seshadri Subramaniam]

Adhvaitham tends to say that there is a saguna brahman and a nirguna brahman... and that nirguna brahman is superior...

 

[s007bala]

Advait Antham.Is there duality in non-dual?Under Vedantam,Advaitham is one of the schools of philosophy.In order to facilitate better understanding or realisation of Brahman,Nirguna & Saguna,got introduced.Superior or Inferior,are humanity created versions of Brahman.

You have your stomach.I have my stomach.When you feel hungry thru your stomach you eat.Same way with me.By seeing you or you by seeing me,can either of us satisfy our individual hunger?I don't think so.Is there a super stomach,for all of us?Which eats to fill its stomach.

We all are individuals at all times,connected ,either thru visible brahman or invisible brahman.And in brahman we merge.Enjoy.And come back again based on poorva janma karma.Hope i am explaining properly ,what i have understood.

sb

 

[Seshadri Subramaniam]

You have your stomach.I have my stomach.When you feel hungry thru your stomach you eat.Same way with me.By seeing you or you by seeing me,can either of us satisfy our individual hunger?I don't think so.Is there a super stomach,for all of us?Which eats to fill its stomach.

Stomach itself is an illusion, so discard your stomach, when there is no stomach, there is no illusion... similarly discard all of what there is and there is no hunger, no pain, no pleasure etc... thus says adhvaitham...

 

[s007bala]

Then illusion itself is illusion.I am not sure,whether you are defining advaitham correctly.My gut feeling is,your understanding is incorrect.But then,i am no Vedantin either.I am just a Jada Vardan.

In a desert,due to heat,we see a mirage.Immediately we think there is water.As we go near,we find,its only an optical illusion.But we still saw water some minutes back,which is reality,then?

sb

 

[Seshadri Subramaniam]

I place my views based on my understanding only... if there is a different interpretation, I would be glad to reflect...

As for the second part of your post it is kind of like "Theory of relativity (or relativism)"... that is it, in a nutshell...

What we see is only due to what there is... it may be or may not be... but does not mean that there is nothing... or that everything is an illusion...

 

[s007bala]

>>What we see is only due to what there is... it may be or may not be... but does not mean that there is nothing... or that everything is an illusion...<<

Shri Seshadri

Its prolly this kind of high calibre thinking amongst us,led us to not acknowledge Akarshana Shakthi or gravity and its laws.Instead Newton,created a organised presentation,and won accolades.Today generations know only Newton's finding and not our ancestors findings at all.Even when said to me ,we already had this knowledge,i used to say,what prevented it being known to all,and win acclaim.Puspaka Vimanam is another of such findings,but its Wright Brothers,who made it,world wide prominence.Even today Indians buy from Boeing,Airbus..etc and not a single worthy Indian manufacturer...

At least now,we are getting a little,worldly wise,so to speak.

sb

 

[s007bala]

>>And hence, dhvaitham, adhvaitham, vishishtadhvaitham are all right in their own perspective...<<

Shri Seshadri

Different schools of doctrine are known to us.Each has its following.But for a Vedantin,i think,he/she must have sama-darshanam.View of equanimity.Thats when Brahma Gyaanam prevails.

as lord says

Chapter 5. Karma-yoga--Action in Spiritual Consciousness
TEXT 18

vidya-vinaya-sampanne
brahmane gavi hastini
suni caiva sva-pake ca
panditah sama-darsinah

SYNONYMS

vidya--education; vinaya--gentleness; sampanne--fully equipped; brahmane--in the brahmana; gavi--in the cow; hastini--in the elephant; suni--in the dog; ca--and; eva--certainly; sva-pake--in the dog-eater (the outcaste); ca--respectively; panditah--those who are so wise; sama-darsinah--do see with equal vision.
TRANSLATION

The humble sage, by virtue of true knowledge, sees with equal vision a learned and gentle brahmana, a cow, an elephant, a dog and a dog-eater.

sb

 

[Seshadri Subramaniam]

Its prolly this kind of high calibre thinking amongst us,led us to not acknowledge Akarshana Shakthi or gravity and its laws.Instead Newton,created a organised presentation,and won accolades.Today generations know only Newton's finding and not our ancestors findings at all.Even when said to me ,we already had this knowledge,i used to say,what prevented it being known to all,and win acclaim.Puspaka Vimanam is another of such findings,but its Wright Brothers,who made it,world wide prominence.Even today Indians buy from Boeing,Airbus..etc and not a single worthy Indian manufacturer...

At least now,we are getting a little,worldly wise,so to speak.

How does that affect our decision to acknowledge??? Am baffled..!!!

As for gravity, puspaka vimanam and other subjects being taught and put to practical use in the early vedic times, I have heard a few lectures on this... not read much about the topic to comment... though I think your views seem a bit harsh...

 

[Seshadri Subramaniam]

Different schools of doctrine are known to us.Each has its following.But for a Vedantin,i think,he/she must have sama-darshanam.View of equanimity.Thats when Brahma Gyaanam prevails.

If everyone had sama darshanam towards everyone and everything... we probably might not have had so many different schools of philosophy...

The humble sage, by virtue of true knowledge, sees with equal vision a learned and gentle brahmana, a cow, an elephant, a dog and a dog-eater.

In all humility I ask - Why should we be so possessed with the idea of equanimity when obviously there are material and spiritual (mind-related) differences between the brahmana, cow, elephant, dog and a dog-eater...

So then, it is apparent that we are trying to build or contrive something as being common to all, based on which everyone/thing could be placed on the same platter... if this is not coloured perception, then what is?

The definition of "true knowledge" itself seems a perception... what is true knowledge? Does something become true knowledge if its tenets could not be logically won over? But then, again, a logic driven debate can be won over by any person having common sense and the ability to use the literal... actually, much depends on the opponent's ability... so again, it leads only to relative perception... changing and twisting over various periods in various moods and colours...

What is vision...? Here it refers just not the physical inference, rather a conclusion based on a deep analysis which is again based on a certain premise... so whatever one sees, it is biased by his own belief... but I wonder will an apple and a mango taste the same to the person who sees everything with the true knowledge and vision? No!!! thus, we are only changing ourseleves to see things in a different perspective... The mango remains a mango, and the apple an apple...

 

[Seshadri Subramaniam]

Proclaiming that "something or someone is the only truth", is the first mistake...

We like the idea of a centralized setup in our world here, and try to attribute the same to the Gods...!!!

 

[s007bala]

Kali Yugam

Proclaiming that "something or someone is the only truth", is the first mistake...

We like the idea of a centralized setup in our world here, and try to attribute the same to the Gods...!!!

That is why wise learned sages have said,during Kali Yugam,Bhakthi Margam is the most appropriate method,not Nyaya Margam.

sb

 

[malgova.mango]

Sesh!

It is not a mistake , it is actually the opposite of it.

knowledge or truth cannot vary from person to person , what you understand should tally with the Pramanam or factor of Ascertainability.

Here Upanishads - Mahavaakyas are the Pramanams .

Your "truth" should confirm to the Swata Pramanam or Shruti Pramanam. Then only it is truth if not ....I'm sorry my dear your quest is not ended.

QED - Truth is a one way path.

Regards

 

[malgova.mango]

sb!

bhakti margam is very much needed for nyaya margam and vice versa.... they work hand in hand , so either way one should arrive and reach HIS lotus feet.

Regards

 

[s007bala]

>>so either way one should arrive and reach HIS lotus feet.<<

M M

Only if HIS or HER or That exists,we arrive.For that is unborn there is no birth or death

sb

 

[pannvalan]

'Zero' does not represent non-existence. It shall not be equated with 'absence' or 'no presence'. It is akin to potential energy and when it is juxtaposed to any other
positive number (especially to the extreme left), it assumes the intended value. Thus it (zero) is converted into a kinetic energy, from potential energy.

Yet, without the help of other numbers the true value of 'Zero' cannot be determined. That is the character of zero. If it cannot be fully understood, it shows only our limitations.