Truth

[Seshadri Subramaniam]

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Manifested energy is the other numerals...

 

[s007bala]

Sure.Everything is energy in one form or the other ( formless ).

sb

 

[Seshadri Subramaniam]

Where there is energy, it implies that there is matter...

 

[vivekam.vairagyam]

Where there is energy, it implies that there is matter...

not true ..... sound is a wave form of energy .. but we do not perceive sound in the absence of matter ...

energy is conserved and transferred between matter and wave forms ...

 

[vivekam.vairagyam]

Why not? There is no nothingness... 0 is just a state between two entities... and entities are but manifestations of energy... so that state of unmanifested energy could be 0...

can u pls illustrate ur claim with an example?

 

[Seshadri Subramaniam]

Energy is transmitted through atoms... which comprise of electrons, protons and neutrons...

Atoms are in a stable state... whenever an electron moves from its frequency to the other there is either energy emitted or taken in...

And Atoms/Electrons... are but matter...

 

[vivekam.vairagyam]

Energy is transmitted through atoms... which comprise of electrons, protons and neutrons...

Atoms are in a stable state... whenever an electron moves from its frequency to the other there is either energy emitted or taken in...

And Atoms/Electrons... are but matter...

so ..?
can u use ur statement to explain energy stored as wave form? are u telling wave form is matter too?

 

[Seshadri Subramaniam]

can u pls illustrate ur claim with an example?

Please see an earlier example ie., compressed spring... the latent energy in the spring is zero, but when it springs, the energy is released ie., manifested...

 

[Seshadri Subramaniam]

vivekam, you did not get the intent... without matter, there is no energy...

only when there is a movement of matter energy manifests...

 

[Seshadri Subramaniam]

Convection, conduction... etc are all through particles... but particles so minute that we see them as formless...

 

[Seshadri Subramaniam]

A wave form is also energy travelling (transmitted) through matter, in a pattern...

 

[vivekam.vairagyam]

so ..?
can u use ur statement to explain energy stored as wave form? are u telling wave form is matter too?

.. energy is only transmitted thru matter never created by matter ... which came first energy/matter? can there be energy without matter ,of course yes ... but we need matter to perceive the existence of energy ....

 

[Seshadri Subramaniam]

When we are static and there is no movement there is no apparent energy manifestation, but when we pick up an object, energy is released... in some form or the other...

Where did this energy come from? It is due to the exertion (movement) that it has manifested...

Matter always exists... and hence energy always exists (sort of corollary)... but energy is in latency when matter is static...

Energy cannot exist without matter...

 

[vivekam.vairagyam]

vivekam, you did not get the intent... without matter, there is no energy...

only when there is a movement of matter energy manifests...

nope.... .. first u say there is no energy without matter , see my earlier post ,

u immediately add , energy manifests only when there is movement of matter ....

so energy that does not move matter is unmaniifest? it seems unmanifest only because u set a criterion of moving matter as a sign of manifestation of energy .... not necessary .... energy is energy whether it moves matter or not ... that is why when it doesnt move matter it is called "potential" energy since it has the potential to manifest/move as " kinetic" energy ....

 

[Seshadri Subramaniam]

.. energy is only transmitted thru matter never created by matter ... which came first energy/matter? can there be energy without matter ,of course yes ... but we need matter to perceive the existence of energy ...

You mean to say as if matter is a tool for energy... but matter is stored in energy... it cannot manifest itself without matter... it is non-existent if there is no matter...!!!

 

[Seshadri Subramaniam]

nope.... .. first u say there is no energy without matter , see my earlier post ,

u immediately add , energy manifests only when there is movement of matter ....

so energy that does not move matter is unmaniifest? it seems unmanifest only because u set a criterion of moving matter as a sign of manifestation of energy .... not necessary .... energy is energy whether it moves matter or not ... that is why when it doesnt move matter it is called "potential" energy since it has the potential to manifest/move as " kinetic" energy ....

Where does it contradict...??? The addition is only to highlight how it works and not just to adjust to any loopholes...

Please give me an example where energy is manifested without matter involved?

 

[vivekam.vairagyam]

When we are static and there is no movement there is no apparent energy manifestation, but when we pick up an object, energy is released... in some form or the other...

Where did this energy come from? It is due to the exertion (movement) that it has manifested...

Matter always exists... and hence energy always exists (sort of corollary)... but energy is in latency when matter is static...

Energy cannot exist without matter...

can u explain where the first matter came from?

 

[Seshadri Subramaniam]

It is there in the post in which you quote... it always exists... it is not created

 

[vivekam.vairagyam]

Please see an earlier example ie., compressed spring... the latent energy in the spring is zero, but when it springs, the energy is released ie., manifested...

nope ... " latent" - means hidden .. in ur example the correct thing to say wuld be that all the energy in the spring is latent/potential ,not as u sed ...

 

[vivekam.vairagyam]

It is there in the post in which you quote... it always exists... it is not created

so u r telling me matter was never created , am i rt?

 

[Seshadri Subramaniam]

Latent could also mean unmanifested... the terms used here are insignificant... it is the purport that is important...

 

[Seshadri Subramaniam]

so u r telling me matter was never created , am i rt?

Yes... matter has only undergone transformations... probably millions of times...

 

[vivekam.vairagyam]

thank you ... that is exactly wht advaitam sez... there is no creation ... only transformation and hence all but the advaita brahman is illusion , hence it wuld be unwise to separate the transformations into separate entities ... only the nirguna advaita brahman remains .. all else is an illusion at a point in time and space ...

 

[Seshadri Subramaniam]

Good... but there is one more thing... matter is just jada porul... where do you think it gets the impetus from?

 

[Seshadri Subramaniam]

thank you ... that is exactly wht advaitam sez... there is no creation ... only transformation and hence all but the advaita brahman is illusion , hence it wuld be unwise to separate the transformations into separate entities ... only the nirguna advaita brahman remains .. all else is an illusion at a point in time and space ...

What is nirguna brahman? If it was nirguna, then why did it transform? There is no necessity as it is nirguna...!!!