The most famous verse of Jayadeva Swami's Gita-Govindam

[renuka]

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Originally Posted by JR
http://www.purebhakti.com/unconventi...itagovind.html

Eligibility for reading Gita-govinda

"To read a great literary work and understand it in terms of etymology is one type of experience, but to appreciate the profound sentiments by which one is truly acquainted with the work is a different experience entirely. Comprehension of the literal meaning of words is generally a simple affair, whereas assimilation of their underlying emotional significance is not so easy. It is impossible for one who is not qualified to read a particular text to accept its internal mood (bhavartha). Therefore all ancient scriptures traditionally begin by defining the specific parameters of eligibility for their prospective readers.

Dear JR,


Is there something as being "eligible" to read any religious text?

I somehow beg to differ.

Today I started reading Valmiki Ramayan in Sanskrit....I bought it last year when I went to India.

Its nice to read in Sanskrit text..it gives you the extra "kickku"..but I did not even once think of eligibility to read it.

I feel as long one has the ability to read and has the interest that should be enough.

At the same time one should read any text with an open mind as not to 100% believe what we read and just enjoy the poetic rendition and nothing more.

That is not too hard for anyone to do..just read and do not get too attached or too involved in whatever we read..after all we are entitled to actions but not get attached to the fruits of it.

 

[Vaagmi]

Dear JR,


Is there something as being "eligible" to read any religious text?

I somehow beg to differ.

Today I started reading Valmiki Ramayan in Sanskrit....I bought it last year when I went to India.

Its nice to read in Sanskrit text..it gives you the extra "kickku"..but I did not even once think of eligibility to read it.

I feel as long one has the ability to read and has the interest that should be enough.

At the same time one should read any text with an open mind as not to 100% believe what we read and just enjoy the poetic rendition and nothing more.

That is not too hard for anyone to do..just read and do not get too attached or too involved in whatever we read..after all we are entitled to actions but not get attached to the fruits of it.

Any one can read any text with an open mind. It is just an alphabet soup and requires only the knowledge of the alphabets, vocabulary and syntax. But to know the taste and flavour of the soup it requires something extra. That is perhaps the "eligibility". Usually with religious texts, the given text is only a stepping stone to a higher reality. Just an example:

Andal said "கற்றுக்கறவைக்கணங்கள் பல கறந்து......." in Thiruppaavai.

A mere reading of the given text would render the meaning "milking the several young cows"

In the very next stanza Andal again says "கனைத்திளங்கற்றெருமை கன்றுக்கிரங்கி"

The stress appears to be on the cows which are young in the yielding stage only. A reader who browses through the pages would think nothing special about this stress. But one who has understood Andal as one who knows all the vedas the experience would be different. He would immediately see the reference to "UtAmrutatvasyEsAna:" from the veda. Sri Krishna being God's avatara was the God of eternity. And the cows which were touched by him had been granted eternity and so they were always yielding. This is the difference between mere browsing/reading and understanding the intention of the author.

Religious texts are not mere assembly of formulas and statement of given situations. They are richer in content and requires learning from a learned master with sincerity. Religious texts are not for those who apply their questioning enthusiasm to a fault. They end up in a regressive cycle of questioning which leads them to just the ultimate "nothing". Some of them, out of their desperation at not finding what they wanted, would still call it UC (Universal Conciousness) and go with that trophy(?). Perhaps they are wired like that and they are not capable of enjoying an Andal's Pasuram with its underlying meaning of a higher order. Lo! They are indeed poor.

The subject is such that many more paras can be written. But keeping with times, it is better to be brief and to the point.

Men and women who do not understand the connection between love and bhakti! Please try to learn and understand. Till then try to understand and come to terms with your ignorance. Peace be with you.

 

[krish44]

Talking of eligibility for reading religeous texts-

A related issue -eligibilty for reading astrological magazines . I have no faith in astrology. but since my better half buys them , I started going thru them out of sheer curiosity.

specially the help columns those approaching with their personal problems and believing stars , planets and grahas having something to do with their problems and

solutions offered by the experts there. there was a common solution for most problems . Going to various temples of specific deities every day/week for a few months

and light ghee diyas as pariharam.

I thought why I should not offer such advise and whether it will work. It does. I found someone who took me seriously and went to rahu sthalam in kumbakonam on my

suggestion since I told him after looking at his horoscope that rahu had something to do with it. I do not know if the person got any relief but now I know I have an

alternative profession if I try. lol.

I can also write predictions for next fortnight in some astrological magazines which many read .

I can also cast horoscopes and sell stones to ward off various doshas to have a viable business model to keep the cash registers ringing

What an alternate occupation for a retired senior officer of indian govt.lol

 

[renuka]

Any one can read any text with an open mind. It is just an alphabet soup and requires only the knowledge of the alphabets, vocabulary and syntax. But to know the taste and flavour of the soup it requires something extra. That is perhaps the "eligibility". Usually with religious texts, the given text is only a stepping stone to a higher reality. Just an example:

Andal said "கற்றுக்கறவைக்கணங்கள் பல கறந்து......." in Thiruppaavai.

A mere reading of the given text would render the meaning "milking the several young cows"

In the very next stanza Andal again says "கனைத்திளங்கற்றெருமை கன்றுக்கிரங்கி"

The stress appears to be on the cows which are young in the yielding stage only. A reader who browses through the pages would think nothing special about this stress. But one who has understood Andal as one who knows all the vedas the experience would be different. He would immediately see the reference to "UtAmrutatvasyEsAna:" from the veda. Sri Krishna being God's avatara was the God of eternity. And the cows which were touched by him had been granted eternity and so they were always yielding. This is the difference between mere browsing/reading and understanding the intention of the author.

Religious texts are not mere assembly of formulas and statement of given situations. They are richer in content and requires learning from a learned master with sincerity. Religious texts are not for those who apply their questioning enthusiasm to a fault. They end up in a regressive cycle of questioning which leads them to just the ultimate "nothing". Some of them, out of their desperation at not finding what they wanted, would still call it UC (Universal Conciousness) and go with that trophy(?). Perhaps they are wired like that and they are not capable of enjoying an Andal's Pasuram with its underlying meaning of a higher order. Lo! They are indeed poor.

The subject is such that many more paras can be written. But keeping with times, it is better to be brief and to the point.

Men and women who do not understand the connection between love and bhakti! Please try to learn and understand. Till then try to understand and come to terms with your ignorance. Peace be with you.

Ok...let me share my little 'experience' of starting to read Sanskrit Valmiki Ramayan.

Here goes...before the Balakanda there are many verses from Skandapuran on merits of reading the Ramayan.

Ok now that is making me feel real uneasy cos it sounds somewhat not within the realm of logic.

Its just going on and on and how one's past sins will be destroyed by reading Ramayan etc etc.

I am "what??"

Is it so easy to get rid of past 'bad' Karma? Just by reading Ramayan?

Why can't the person reading Ramayan be responsible enough to pay for his/her so called sins?

So nope...I wont believe this...does not seem right somehow.

Then while reading the stanzas I saw an small ant moving about on the page.

I thought "Ok..may be the ant is reading Ramayan too after all Valmiki came out from an ant hil"

I told the ant "I am not going to chase you..you stay in this book..if its true that it can erase sin..so may you too be erased of all sin and reach Vaikunta"

 

[zebra16]

Dear JR,


Is there something as being "eligible" to read any religious text?

I somehow beg to differ.

Today I started reading Valmiki Ramayan in Sanskrit....I bought it last year when I went to India.

Its nice to read in Sanskrit text..it gives you the extra "kickku"..but I did not even once think of eligibility to read it.

I feel as long one has the ability to read and has the interest that should be enough.

At the same time one should read any text with an open mind as not to 100% believe what we read and just enjoy the poetic rendition and nothing more.

That is not too hard for anyone to do..just read and do not get too attached or too involved in whatever we read..after all we are entitled to actions but not get attached to the fruits of it.

Doc,

The more important point to analyse is, who imposed the "restrictions" about eligibility.

This GG has been in existence for over 10 centuries, and suddenly in the 20th century Srila Prabhupada gives eligibility criteria of who are eligible to read. So for at least eight-nine centuries anyone could read and "enjoy" but suddenly after 20th century peoples' mind "dimmed" the world over and only a few eligible ones remained

And in the blog post provided by Smt JR, the quotations furnished are from Srimad Bhagwatam as narrated by Suka Muni and the funny thing is the supposed narration of Suka Muni to reading of rAs-leela has been usurped for reading and "enjoying" the sporting activities of Sri Radharani-Krishna. It is quite another thing that Srimad BhAgwatam does not mention the existence of Sri Radha.

So suddenly you apply the rules of motor vehicle licencing of Malaysia to India and disqualify the drivers possessing driving licence issued by Government of India

There is not a single post refuting what Sri Sangom said as content of the Brahmavaivartha PuraNam and the posters are busy furnishing their own home made explanations, including Mukhri comedy.

 

[renuka]

Men and women who do not understand the connection between love and bhakti! Please try to learn and understand. Till then try to understand and come to terms with your ignorance. Peace be with you.

Its not so difficult to understand the connection between Love and Bhakti.

Love is an addiction..and Bhakti is a delusion!LOL

Both of these make us feel out of this world..the cloud nine feeling..the point of no return...to enjoy Love and Bhakti is simple..just keep it coming..do not bother to know what is the substratum that holds both of these together.

Do not bother to find out what is Real or Unreal.

The ignorant mind is always the most blissful.

Its as simple as this..when a man sees a woman..he is not going to sing Bhajo Govindam and think that she is but a conglomerate of flesh and blood...all he knows that her very sight makes his blood rush.

The rushing of the blood thru each capillary is the feeling of Love he gets.and the culmination of the Love feeling is Bhakti.

I am quite convinced those who claim to have intense Bhakti/Bhava/Love enjoy conjugal relationships intensely!LOL

 

[renuka]

Doc,

The more important point to analyse is, who imposed the "restrictions" about eligibility.

This GG has been in existence for over 10 centuries, and suddenly in the 20th century Srila Prabhupada gives eligibility criteria of who are eligible to read. So for at least eight-nine centuries anyone could read and "enjoy" but suddenly after 20th century peoples' mind "dimmed" the world over and only a few eligible ones remained
.

I did not know this.

So its new "ruling"...as imposed by the ruling Bhakti sect.

 

[zebra16]

Ok...let me share my little 'experience' of starting to read Sanskrit Valmiki Ramayan.

Here goes...before the Balakanda there are many verses from Skandapuran on merits of reading the Ramayan.

Ok now that is making me feel real uneasy cos it sounds somewhat not within the realm of logic.

Isnt it a bit odd that a few lines have to be lifted from skAandeya purANam to extol the benefits of reciting or reading rAmAyaNam? After all, vAlmiki himself could himself penned a few lines extolling its virtue.

And the choice of a few lines from skAndeya puraNam (?), the most tAmasic one, as per the classification provided in padma purANam

 

[Vaagmi]

Ok...let me share my little 'experience' of starting to read Sanskrit Valmiki Ramayan.

Here goes...before the Balakanda there are many verses from Skandapuran on merits of reading the Ramayan.

Ok now that is making me feel real uneasy cos it sounds somewhat not within the realm of logic.

Its just going on and on and how one's past sins will be destroyed by reading Ramayan etc etc.

I am "what??"

Is it so easy to get rid of past 'bad' Karma? Just by reading Ramayan?

Why can't the person reading Ramayan be responsible enough to pay for his/her so called sins?

So nope...I wont believe this...does not seem right somehow.

Then while reading the stanzas I saw an small ant moving about on the page.

I thought "Ok..may be the ant is reading Ramayan too after all Valmiki came out from an ant hil"

I told the ant "I am not going to chase you..you stay in this book..if its true that it can erase sin..so may you too be erased of all sin and reach Vaikunta"

The last one line and in fact the very last word of your post betrays the psychic load that is acting on you. You can never get the meaning of GG. Not in this life. LOL.

Any way let me make one last attempt. But I will have to be brutally frank. Excuse me for that. Nothing intentional. It is only a reaction to an action.

"Ok now that is making me feel real uneasy cos it sounds somewhat not within the realm of logic."

What is the logic you are working with? If it is what you have explained in the following lines (cause and action) then read further.

I am "what??"

The answer will depend on the context. More info needed to answer this query.

Is it so easy to get rid of past 'bad' Karma? Just by reading Ramayan?

One day a young healthy muscular African Tribal was told by a Modern Doctor that his unbearable pain caused by a crystal in his kidney can be blasted using just air waves created by a machine from outside. The young man refused to believe because his cause and action logic had no place for that. He was cured.

He went to meet a Tao Master. As he started blabbering something to attract the attention of the master, the Master just blew him away. Like an ant getting blown away he was just thrown out. The young muscular and strong tribal did not have such a thing happening in his realm of logic.

Only when you experience the effect of 'reading' Ramayana you would believe. It is because your cause and effect realm of logic does not have that inside it.

now a question to you. Is there a past 'bad' karma at all? How did you come to believe it?

Why can't the person reading Ramayan be responsible enough to pay for his/her so called sins?

paying for the sins can be intolerable sometimes. It can be even the loss of a near or dear one. That would be a catastrophe for many human beings. The trauma may ultimately kill even the individual. So there is no way some payments can be tolerated. Hence the alternatives. Looking for an alternative is not being irresponsible.

Did the ant die when you closed the book. If so it has just added more load on you. LOL. Or did you blow away the ant like the Tao Master?

 

[Vaagmi]

Its not so difficult to understand the connection between Love and Bhakti.
Love is an addiction..and Bhakti is a delusion!LOL

One under a delusion waxing eloquent about others' delusion.

Both of these make us feel out of this world..the cloud nine feeling..the point of no return...to enjoy Love and Bhakti is simple..just keep it coming..do not bother to know what is the substratum that holds both of these together.Do not bother to find out what is Real or Unreal The ignorant mind is always the most blissful.

But it is against the very nature of the mind. It can never remain ignorant for long. And that is the basic problem.

Its as simple as this..when a man sees a woman..he is not going to sing Bhajo Govindam and think that she is but a conglomerate of flesh and blood...all he knows that her very sight makes his blood rush.
The rushing of the blood thru each capillary is the feeling of Love he gets.and the culmination of the Love feeling is Bhakti.

What a way to trash!! Now my problem is how to write it here within the constraints of dignity of the forum. Let me try. Blood rushing is just one of the effects. There are several things happening following that. They are subjective as well as objective for each individual in action. It is an action in which two highly motivated individuals come together and perform. They derive some satisfaction and pleasure. Is there not an attempt also to get a wee bit closer to each other? If there is an exploration then what is explored? Just this much only--constraints coming into action.

I am quite convinced those who claim to have intense Bhakti/Bhava/Love enjoy conjugal relationships intensely!LOL

May be false. The two are two different experiences-like lime and citrus. They may belong to the same family but are different. Yes, if you know one well you may be able to know the other well.

 

[mkrishna100]

Its just going on and on and how one's past sins will be destroyed by reading Ramayan etc etc.

The following website http://www.readramayana.org/ is aon online portal for people to participate in the reading Valmiki Ramayana in Sanskrit and every week 50-100 verses will be sent by email and by this process it will take 5 years to complete and some of the benefits that they claim will happen to people who read this text for 5 years are :



Benefits

• There are many Slokas in Ramayana that enrich your thinking about life, such as making choices, sticking to choices, not getting swayed by emotions and distractions, etc. These Slokas are written in such a powerful and poetic language, that they will stick in your mind without much effort. They jump out of your memory at the right moment to guide you through the challenges in life.
• Tell people that you are a member of Read Ramayana initiative, wherever there is an opportunity, such as on when you meet them at parties and other occasions, or on Facebook, Google Plus, etc. This conveys a lot about you to others than you imagine.
• Your interest in a serious subject conveys to others that you are a person of depth, not a 'surface' type person. People respect and trust a person with those characteristics.
• If you are an unmarried male, the very fact that you have committed yourself for a 5+ year initiative assures the prospective bride, that you are a person capable of commitment.

So only people who have read this text for 5 years can say what sort of benefits they got .

 

[Vaagmi]

............
And in the blog post provided by Smt JR, the quotations furnished are from Srimad Bhagwatam as narrated by Suka Muni and the funny thing is the supposed narration of Suka Muni to reading of rAs-leela has been usurped for reading and "enjoying" the sporting activities of Sri Radharani-Krishna. It is quite another thing that Srimad BhAgwatam does not mention the existence of Sri Radha.

So suddenly you apply the rules of motor vehicle licencing of Malaysia to India and disqualify the drivers possessing driving licence issued by Government of India

So you are cock sure that there never was any one gopi among the hundreds of Gopis who joined the rasaleela with the name Radha. Your belief is just as good as the belief of Sri Prabhupada that there was one with the name Radha. So it is your word against his word.

There is not a single post refuting what Sri Sangom said as content of the Brahmavaivartha PuraNam and the posters are busy furnishing their own home made explanations, including Mukhri comedy.

a tamasic purana is not read by many people because it is tamasic and does not add value to knowledge.

 

[Vaagmi]

Isnt it a bit odd that a few lines have to be lifted from skAandeya purANam to extol the benefits of reciting or reading rAmAyaNam? After all, vAlmiki himself could himself penned a few lines extolling its virtue.
And the choice of a few lines from skAndeya puraNam (?), the most tAmasic one, as per the classification provided in padma purANam

That was done precisely to pull out the dull heads from the intoxicating influence of the tamasic junk. The familiar lines would kindle interest in them to read the satvik purana/itihasa. LOL.

 

[zebra16]

So you are cock sure that there never was any one gopi among the hundreds of Gopis who joined the rasaleela with the name Radha. Your belief is just as good as the belief of Sri Prabhupada that there was one with the name Radha. So it is your word against his word.

When you write Vaagmi version of Srimad BhAgwatam or Vishnu PurANam make sure mention of Sri Radha Rani. As on today it simply is MISSING in any of the purANams except Brahmavaivartha. Dont try to muddle the issue by bringing in beliefs. It is about quoting scriptures.

a tamasic purana is not read by many people because it is tamasic and does not add value to knowledge.

May be so... But the most authentic version of Sri Lakshmi SahasranAmam is from skAandeya purANam so that should tell you something about value addition to knowledge. Moreover Sri Radharani is not even mentioned, leave alone equated with Sri Mahaakshmi, or SatyabhAma or Rukmani or Bhudevi or NeeLadevi.

Fancy tales will remain fancy tales, notwithstanding any attempts to glorify them.

 

[renuka]

Answers in blue.

The last one line and in fact the very last word of your post betrays the psychic load that is acting on you. You can never get the meaning of GG. Not in this life. LOL.


Wasn't it me who wrote an explanation of the act of Radha placing her feet on the head of Lord Krishna in this very thread where I explained that it can be seen as the act of purity where Radha is pure enough for the Lord to accept her feet..the union of Jeevatma and Paramatma?

I guess you do not like such subtle explanations and prefer hard core stuff!LOL




Any way let me make one last attempt. But I will have to be brutally frank. Excuse me for that. Nothing intentional. It is only a reaction to an action.

No problems..I like frank and brutal acts!

What is the logic you are working with? If it is what you have explained in the following lines (cause and action) then read further.


One day a young healthy muscular African Tribal was told by a Modern Doctor that his unbearable pain caused by a crystal in his kidney can be blasted using just air waves created by a machine from outside. The young man refused to believe because his cause and action logic had no place for that. He was cured.

He went to meet a Tao Master. As he started blabbering something to attract the attention of the master, the Master just blew him away. Like an ant getting blown away he was just thrown out. The young muscular and strong tribal did not have such a thing happening in his realm of logic.

Only when you experience the effect of 'reading' Ramayana you would believe. It is because your cause and effect realm of logic does not have that inside it.


You are distracting me..I am starting to imagine how the muscular African looks like..anyways back to topic..I have read many Ramayans before but this journey of Valmiki Ramayan in Sanskrit is going to be a new one..lets see..how it goes.
But the verses from Skandapuran should not have been there cos why talk about sins being abolished while reading Ramayan and talks about merits even before reading anything..it makes us less responsible for our actions.

now a question to you. Is there a past 'bad' karma at all? How did you come to believe it?

Nope..there is no bad Karma or good Karma..there is only Karma..we personalize the experience according to our likes and dislikes and call it good or bad.



paying for the sins can be intolerable sometimes. It can be even the loss of a near or dear one. That would be a catastrophe for many human beings. The trauma may ultimately kill even the individual. So there is no way some payments can be tolerated. Hence the alternatives. Looking for an alternative is not being irresponsible.


It can not be be tolerated at times but it can be understood....a death of a near and dear one teaches us that death is inevitable..there is nothing that can stop it when death comes knocking.
It makes us realize the King or Pauper death snares you the same.
The human mind adapts after a while....it needs to survive..after a while painful memories are erased in most normal humans..those who do not erase it become insane.


Did the ant die when you closed the book. If so it has just added more load on you. LOL. Or did you blow away the ant like the Tao Master?

Place lorry on an ant and it does not die..why would a book kill it? its still alive..I still see it on the pages.

Tao Master? I am still dreaming of the African!LOL

 

[zebra16]

That was done precisely to pull out the dull heads from the intoxicating influence of the tamasic junk. The familiar lines would kindle interest in them to read the satvik purana/itihasa. LOL.

Yes more precisely like Vaagmi types

 

[zebra16]

Doc,


There is not a single post refuting what Sri Sangom said as content of the Brahmavaivartha PuraNam and the posters are busy furnishing their own home made explanations, including Mukhri comedy.

a tamasic purana is not read by many people because it is tamasic and does not add value to knowledge.

You betray your ignorance here. Brahma vaivartha is a rAjasic purANam, (and not a tAmasic one as you claim) precisely because of these amorous dalliance narrations.

 

[renuka]

Answers in blue.

But it is against the very nature of the mind. It can never remain ignorant for long. And that is the basic problem.

So why worry..there are times when a person is lucid and there are times when a person is ignorant.Its up to you where you would like to place Bhakti in this two phases!



What a way to trash!! Now my problem is how to write it here within the constraints of dignity of the forum. Let me try. Blood rushing is just one of the effects. There are several things happening following that. They are subjective as well as objective for each individual in action. It is an action in which two highly motivated individuals come together and perform. They derive some satisfaction and pleasure. Is there not an attempt also to get a wee bit closer to each other? If there is an exploration then what is explored? Just this much only--constraints coming into action.

Yes...thats the word...you said it! They derive some satisfaction and pleasure! That is Love and Bhakti.
The mind that claims to be Bhaktiful is a mind that is a sponge..its waiting for some pleasure of some form to reach ultimate state.

The next question is..Are Bhaktimans pleasure seekers that have not fulfilled their desires and claim that they seek God and dance in blissful Love only to cover up their own insecurities?
Have you noticed most Bhaktimans have quite a "hostile" demeanor?
Try stepping on any tail and watch them react!LOL

So what is it..Love and Bhakti a cover up for excessive unmet desires?





May be false. The two are two different experiences-like lime and citrus. They may belong to the same family but are different. Yes, if you know one well you may be able to know the other well.

Why bother which is lime and which is citrus..drink the rasa(juice)..that is the Bhakti way!LOL

 

[Vaagmi]

When you write Vaagmi version of Srimad BhAgwatam or Vishnu PurANam make sure mention of Sri Radha Rani. As on today it simply is MISSING in any of the purANams except Brahmavaivartha. Dont try to muddle the issue by bringing in beliefs. It is about quoting scriptures.
May be so... But the most authentic version of Sri Lakshmi SahasranAmam is from skAandeya purANam so that should tell you something about value addition to knowledge. Moreover Sri Radharani is not even mentioned, leave alone equated with Sri Mahaakshmi, or SatyabhAma or Rukmani or Bhudevi or NeeLadevi.

Fancy tales will remain fancy tales, notwithstanding any attempts to glorify them.

Are you telling me that you know the names of all the gopikas who danced with Sri Krishna and went to rasaleela with him but this one name of Radha is missing from the list and so is not authentic. Pray let me know the names of all those lucky gopikas. I am curious.

Which is this authentic version of Lakshmi Sahasranamam? Your version?

 

[Vaagmi]

You betray your ignorance here. Brahma vaivartha is a rAjasic purANam, (and not a tAmasic one as you claim) precisely because of these amorous dalliance narrations.

Yeah. I understand you well. You went and looked up and came back. No problem. If I say I knew It was rajasik and yet mentioned tamasic because we were discussing tamasic purnas, you wont believe me. So I am not saying that. I may be an ignaramus. Happy? LOL.

The fact remains that it is not a sAtvik purana and that is what matters here for the discussion. Childish. LOL.

 

[zebra16]

Are you telling me that you know the names of all the gopikas who danced with Sri Krishna and went to rasaleela with him but this one name of Radha is missing from the list and so is not authentic. Pray let me know the names of all those lucky gopikas. I am curious.

You can take the help of any strawman as you wish. But the simple fact remains that Sri Radharani finds ABSOLUTELY NO MENTION​. I do not even for a minute suppose that Suka or Sage Veda Vyasa were suffering from amnesia to forget about Sri Radharani when they composed these two purANams and that Srila PrabhupAda got from divine knowledge that was not bestowed even upon Sri Veda VyAsa or Sri SukA.

Which is this authentic version of Lakshmi Sahasranamam? Your version?

Arent you trying to be a bit naive here? The other Sri Lakshmi SahasranAmam is found in Brahma purAnam, a rAjasic one. I am yet to come across a Sri Lakshmi sahasranAmam contained in the sAtvika purANam. If you are aware of one such, please let me know.

Whether you like it or not Sri Vagmi it is not possible to wriggle out easily by taking support of established purANAms which Srila Prabhuda has attempted to give divinity to a later day purANam.

 

[zebra16]

Yeah. I understand you well. You went and looked up and came back. No problem. If I say I knew It was rajasik and yet mentioned tamasic because we were discussing tamasic purnas, you wont believe me. So I am not saying that. I may be an ignaramus. Happy? LOL.

The fact remains that it is not a sAtvik purana and that is what matters here for the discussion. Childish. LOL.

See how your on the spot childishness is betrayed by your question on Sri Lakshmi sahasranAmam. Check up again and give me a sahasranAmam of Sri Lakshmi from a sAtveeka one.

 

[Vaagmi]

Answers in blue.

Any way let me make one last attempt. But I will have to be brutally frank. Excuse me for that. Nothing intentional. It is only a reaction to an action.

No problems..I like frank and brutal acts!

There is no salvation for you. LOL. Narayana, intha ponnukku nalla budhdhiyakkuduppaa. LOL.

What is the logic you are working with? If it is what you have explained in the following lines (cause and action) then read further.


One day a young healthy muscular African Tribal was told by a Modern Doctor that his unbearable pain caused by a crystal in his kidney can be blasted using just air waves created by a machine from outside. The young man refused to believe because his cause and action logic had no place for that. He was cured.

He went to meet a Tao Master. As he started blabbering something to attract the attention of the master, the Master just blew him away. Like an ant getting blown away he was just thrown out. The young muscular and strong tribal did not have such a thing happening in his realm of logic.

Only when you experience the effect of 'reading' Ramayana you would believe. It is because your cause and effect realm of logic does not have that inside it.


You are distracting me..I am starting to imagine how the muscular African looks like..anyways back to topic..I have read many Ramayans before but this journey of Valmiki Ramayan in Sanskrit is going to be a new one..lets see..how it goes.
But the verses from Skandapuran should not have been there cos why talk about sins being abolished while reading Ramayan and talks about merits even before reading anything..it makes us less responsible for our actions.

Again your usual going at a tangent. Narayana! Narayana!! Inthapponnukku................
Merits are merits and they are not there because you like them or dislike them. Like we say "visarga bindu matrAni pada pAdAksharanicha nunAnischathirikthAni kshamasva purushottama" you can add in your sankalpam a suitable couplet saying you disown all that is imported from skandam.

paying for the sins can be intolerable sometimes. It can be even the loss of a near or dear one. That would be a catastrophe for many human beings. The trauma may ultimately kill even the individual. So there is no way some payments can be tolerated. Hence the alternatives. Looking for an alternative is not being irresponsible.


It can not be be tolerated at times but it can be understood....a death of a near and dear one teaches us that death is inevitable..there is nothing that can stop it when death comes knocking.
It makes us realize the King or Pauper death snares you the same.
The human mind adapts after a while....it needs to survive..after a while painful memories are erased in most normal humans..those who do not erase it become insane.

understanding that comes after suffering is pyrhic. Human nature is to avoid such understandings.

Did the ant die when you closed the book. If so it has just added more load on you. LOL. Or did you blow away the ant like the Tao Master?

1.Place lorry on an ant and it does not die..why would a book kill it? its still alive..I still see it on the pages.
2.Tao Master? I am still dreaming of the African!LOL

1. That is a lot of physics and logic that usually goes above my head. LOL.
2. Narayana! Narayana!! Inthaponnukku nalla budhdhiyakkuduppaa. LOL.
[/QUOTE]

 

[Vaagmi]

You can take the help of any strawman as you wish. But the simple fact remains that Sri Radharani finds ABSOLUTELY NO MENTION​. I do not even for a minute suppose that Suka or Sage Veda Vyasa were suffering from amnesia to forget about Sri Radharani when they composed these two purANams and that Srila PrabhupAda got from divine knowledge that was not bestowed even upon Sri Veda VyAsa or Sri SukA.

Straw man or no man. The question stands. Do you know the names of all the gopikas who participated in the
Rasaleela? If you do not know why do you object to the one name that is being mentioned here? Either (1)you know them all and so are sure that this name was not there and so you object to its inclusion or (2) you do not know any of the names and so make a wild guess that radha or Charu Seela was not in the list. It is the later case with you, and so you need to admit it and take corrective steps in your understanding. I leave it to you.

Arent you trying to be a bit naive here? The other Sri Lakshmi SahasranAmam is found in Brahma purAnam, a rAjasic one. I am yet to come across a Sri Lakshmi sahasranAmam contained in the sAtvika purANam. If you are aware of one such, please let me know.

Okay I am naive. And there are only two versions of LS as proclaimed by you and they are both in only a Rajasic or a Tamasic purna. But do they make a gopika by name Radha less real or non real? That is the question which stands and stares at you. Please answer.

 

[zebra16]

Straw man or no man. The question stands. Do you know the names of all the gopikas who participated in the
Rasaleela? If you do not know why do you object to the one name that is being mentioned here? Either (1)you know them all and so are sure that this name was not there and so you object to its inclusion or (2) you do not know any of the names and so make a wild guess that radha or Charu Seela was not in the list. It is the later case with you, and so you need to admit it and take corrective steps in your understanding. I leave it to you.



Okay I am naive. And there are only two versions of LS as proclaimed by you and they are both in only a Rajasic or a Tamasic purna. But do they make a gopika by name Radha less real or non real? That is the question which stands and stares at you. Please answer.

All these verbal gymnastics wont work. If Sri Radharani is the originator of Vishnu, Mahesha, GaNesha etc. as Brahmavaivarta asserts, Sri Veda VyAsA ought to know it, because he is verily Lord VishNu himself.

Remember viSNu sahasranAmam, "vyAsAya viSNu rUpAyA, vyAsa rUpAya viSNavE"..... it is impossible that Lord Vishnu himself was unaware of Sri Radharani or his swarUpam vyAsa, was unaware of the progenitor of Lord Vishnu Himself