tamil cinema discussion

[srinivasansharma]

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very sorry.

mods please clsoe this topic.

thanks

 

[suvarchas]

for long there has been a question running in the mind of general tamil public and movie goers,
why there are not many tamil women coming on top as heroines
and nearly 95% of the tamil heroines are non tamil people.

and these thoughts will further be discussed elaborately in this topic.

before 1950 most of the heroines were tamil as knowing and speaking fluent tamil(even singing)is a compulsory for all actress.

but when india become independent there was large state of Madras covering most of 4 southern states and chennai served as the hub of film producing for all 4 southern languages, so from there the invasion of non tamil actresses begun

also playback singing become popular and these non tamil actress spoke fluent tamil.
but north indian actress are literally unknown till 1980s.

in the fifties and sixties most of the tamil heroines were telugu(banumathi,savitri,anjali devi)or kannada(saroja devi,jayanthi,bharathi)or mallu(padmini&sisters), and they talked fluent tamil,though many popular tamil heroines were also there like vijayakumari etc.

also many non tamil heroines were natives of madras so no linguistic problems arose.

most notably the beautiful and fantastic tamil actress ever vyjayanthi mala,born and brought up ion chennai chose hindi film for tamil ones.

hemamalini,rekha,sridevi,meenakshi seshadri followed her footsteps and made enormous success in hindi films.

one cinema analyst pointed out the reason not so many tamil actress coming on top in kollywood is that most of the fair and beautiful tamil women in tamilnadu are from brahmin community and becausse of anti brahmin sentiments of 50s and 60s they fled to other film world or feared enterimng tamil industry.

exception to this view are jayalaitha and lakshmi who remained top heroines of their time.

by 70s most of the heroines were from telugu or malayalam.
and with rathi agnihotri's debut in tamil, the stage was set for great bombay invasion.

since 1970s tamil fil ndustry mostly produced low budget flicks and indusstry dominated by directors with MGR left and sivaji running a lone race, the importance having a glamorous heroines was unwarranted

but bharati raja introdueced rathi agnihotri a punjapi who made huge success , but she too moved northwards to telugu then to hindi like sridevi.

so when sridevi left there was huge vaccum created in tamil films for a complete actres,who is beautiful ,glamourous, talentd and loved by many.
that vaccum was occasionally filled by many but for a brief period and true cinema lovers were sincerley longing for a actress like sridevi for decades.

top actress from the time sridevi left tamil till now.

criteria is beauty,popularity,box office record,number of films, dancing acting skills and having a fan following among male youth population(they now account for 75% of BO collections)

1. 1983-86 ambika radha

2.1986-90 revathy,amala,nadhiya,seetha(all quit after marriage)

3.1990-1993 kushboo(for unknow reasons she was removed from all films in mid 1993)

4.1993-96 meena roja

5.1996-97 invasion of bollywood nagma(from 94),aishwarya rai,tabu,sushmita,shilpa shetty,kajol, simran and a host of unknopwn bombay actresses(there were nearly 25-50 debutants in the late ninties)

6.1997-2004 simran(till her marriage)

7.2004-05 trisha and sneha

8.2005-07 asin

9. 2007 shreya(upto 1.1.2008)

10.2008 nayathara

in 1980s when there is no TV or net, with only govt.controlled radion, most of the movie related info.on cinema came through magazines.

though many magazines like bommai,pesum padam and cinema express gave detailed information on everything about cinema, ther are 100s of yellow magazines that gave bad,unproved and titilating info on actresses.
they talked about actresses compromises onachieving stardom and the abuse and exploitation of women by cine people.
these are further spread through word of mouth as gossips which gripped the mind of genberal public even now.

this prevented aspiring actresses to enter cine field and to mover toward more honourable professions.

though this attitude changed in late 80s and early 90s and many tamil women tested their luck at kollywood.the problem is most of these women came from higher levels of society or from a cosmopoiltan setups with increased social and economic liberation,they too failed to make a mark.
so they moved to other fields or married and settled p[eacefully.

suganya is the only one to reach top actress status by a tamil women,she too sidelined after kushboo's success

also the north indian actresses are extroverted by nature, comfortable in western dresses and came in huge number to choose from.

if yoy see the films released in mid ninities you can see how many new faces were debuted, over 50% of films had newcomers from bombay.

Dear Sir,
I personally feel that this topic is not right for this forum unless it is going to contribute to the welfare or upliftment of Tam.Brahmin community.However you are at liberty to air your views

 

[Nacchinarkiniyan]

Dear Sir,
I personally feel that this topic is not right for this forum unless it is going to contribute to the welfare or upliftment of Tam.Brahmin community.However you are at liberty to air your views

I would agree with suvarchas. But if you are discussing this you may also discuss why the Tamil Nadu government prefers junior North Indian Brahmin IAS and IPS officers with Brahmin surnames over senior Tamil Brahmins without caste names in the case of top appointments in the Government.

 

[sapr333]

I would agree with suvarchas. But if you are discussing this you may also discuss why the Tamil Nadu government prefers junior North Indian Brahmin IAS and IPS officers with Brahmin surnames over senior Tamil Brahmins without caste names in the case of top appointments in the Government.

This is a good point.. Even I was pondering this question for long...Atleast a Chief Secretary..

This is definitely wrong on Dravidian parties, who talk so much of TAMIL, but hesitant (intentionally) to employ tamilians in T.N top posts...

 

[Nacchinarkiniyan]

Fact: Tamil Brahmins have been Chief Secretary in almost all other states. Assam, Maharashtra, West Bengal, Bihar, U.P. The last two are supposed to be the caste ridden states.

The fact is that Tamil Nadu is the most caste dominated state.

Periyar would be turning in his grave (so to say) to see North Indian brahmins dominating the civil services in Tamil Nadu.

The average Tamilian feels inferior to the Hindi speaking North Indian.

I have personal experience because my children are often mistaken for Setthu (fair and fat) and get royal treatment in Chennai.

My idea of posting is to say that the case of actresses and civil servants are both based on personal whims and fancies.

But both are based on Caste. Jathi Veri is rampant in Tamil Nadu in all circles with no exceptions. No state is this bad.

 

[srinivasansharma]

very sorry.
thanking all members.

 

[Nacchinarkiniyan]

I have a question for sapr333.

You had posted about the number of blacks acting in Hollywood movies. But tell me when was the last time we had a black heroine in a Tamil Movie? It was much better in the old days. Savitri, Saroja Devi were not fair. Of course they did apply make up to look fair.

One of the reasons Shivaji Ganesan became popular was that he looked like an average Tamilian. The same holds good for Rajnikanth and many of the new heroes.

But why should the heroine be always very fair. They do not look like an average Tamil girl at all.

This is a case of Discrimination based on colour of the skin. There is no point in writing songs saying Black is beautiful when you do not have a single black heroine.

I do not think the Blacks in the U.S go around looking for fair brides.

In the entire Indian Cinema Industry, you can not become a heroine if you are black, though most of the Indians are black. The Bengali cinema industry is better though not totally free from this colour prejudice.

This is proof of how Indians are one of the most colour conscious people.

P.S. I have been wanting to ask this question to some one for a long time.

 

[suvarchas]

Fact: Tamil Brahmins have been Chief Secretary in almost all other states. Assam, Maharashtra, West Bengal, Bihar, U.P. The last two are supposed to be the caste ridden states.

The fact is that Tamil Nadu is the most caste dominated state.

Periyar would be turning in his grave (so to say) to see North Indian brahmins dominating the civil services in Tamil Nadu.

The average Tamilian feels inferior to the Hindi speaking North Indian.

I have personal experience because my children are often mistaken for Setthu (fair and fat) and get royal treatment in Chennai.

My idea of posting is to say that the case of actresses and civil servants are both based on personal whims and fancies.

But both are based on Caste. Jathi Veri is rampant in Tamil Nadu in all circles with no exceptions. No state is this bad.

You have hit the bull's eye.The rampant Jaathi veri is only after the advent of DMK.In the name of upliftment of downtrodden,DMK and other Kazhagams have only fanned communal and sectarian feelings.This could be gauged from the fact that nearly in all years strife between communities are taking place in places like Kamudhi,Interior Tirunelveli and other sensitive places during temple festivals.One consolation is Brahmins are never involved in any of those incidents.
Cinema has also contributed by glorifying castes in titles.Iam reminded of one incident when a Malayalam movie was screened with a title,"Iyer the Great".PMK founder opposed to it stating that whether others were not great.In their perverted understanding it was demeaning to them whereas the title was only about a chracter in the film.Subsequently many films glorifying other communities in the titles were released.They did not object to that.
Siumilarly films from 1950s and 60s mainly from Kazhaga schools were always portraying a devout as a villainy and a scheming character with a streak of Vibhthi or with a tradtional Brahmin dress.These have contributed a lot to the character assassination of Brahmins systematically.But on top of it all those guys are not averse to marrying a Brahmin girl into their families.These may be due to the fixation about complexion

 

[KRS]

Dear Sri Nacchinarkiniyan Ji,

Unfortunately, lately this whiter skin phenomenon has been creeping in to the African American community here in USA as well. Like in India, products to make the skin fairer are becoming popular among blacks.

We Indians are very color conscious. During my life here in the US, I have always noticed a subtle racism shown by our folks towards the blacks, coining even a derogatory name to call them.

Just an observation.

Regards,
KRS

I have a question for sapr333.

I do not think the Blacks in the U.S go around looking for fair brides.


P.S. I have been wanting to ask this question to some one for a long time.

 

[sapr333]

Dear Sri Nacchinarkiniyan Ji,

Unfortunately, lately this whiter skin phenomenon has been creeping in to the African American community here in USA as well. Like in India, products to make the skin fairer are becoming popular among blacks.

We Indians are very color conscious. During my life here in the US, I have always noticed a subtle racism shown by our folks towards the blacks, coining even a derogatory name to call them.

Just an observation.

Regards,
KRS

KRS has a valid point and I agree with him too.. Thats one reason, why the global FMCG giant UNILEVER (I had a stint there too), had to call of their fair&lovely brand advt, just because it projected the 'Fair skin as superior, and the most wanted amongst"..Infact,Unilever had faced some tough litigations in India too , on this subject...

 

[sapr333]

I have a question for sapr333.

You had posted about the number of blacks acting in Hollywood movies. But tell me when was the last time we had a black heroine in a Tamil Movie? . .

I have told you may a times, the subject which we are talking about , is not just to blame some one,rather, we are all, in totallity responsible for the mess of casteism or varna or colour.

I can share you a good incident..During my late 20's heading a telecom district operation, I was busy getting done the best for Ayudha Pooja celebrations.Smartly, I oursourced every thing, including inviting the pujari to conduct the ritual..The food service contractor couldnt arrange a Brahmin priest, so he brought someone locally..All I knew is, the priest did'nt sport a thread around his torso,but seems be a good spiritually oriented person having a fair skin and gentle looking..Trust me, I was blamed for this, for I couldnt arrange a Brahmin pundit,and to my surprise, the heat on me came from non-brahmin(after ten years, I got to know that he is a dalit, by tallying his surname).. A great learning for me!!... The point here is, this issue of varna has percolated deep down in the minds of any average Indian, for he belives strongly some kind of scriptures, with his own interpretations...Im clear, one should not sheerly blame Brahmins for that, and I have insisted this point very many times here.. But I am very much clear, that Brahmins should take the initiative to get this mind-set our of our society, cos they are in the top position of Varna..

Guess why!!.. I happened to read one of the posts here in another thread(dont remember the title though), an Iyer handle , explaining about the apporpriation done by Iyengars over a Vinayagar temple in Virugampakkam,Madras...(I think Bala007 was debating on that)... He open heartedly appealed to every one,that, these kind of discrimination in temples between Brahmins should be stopped, and the initiative should come from Iyengars, cos they stand tall over Iyers...

Similarly,if there is a fight between Devar/untouchable in the banks of Thamirabarani, the Thevars are responsible to put an end to it, cos they command better out there..If there is a fight between Untouchables&Tribals in Kandhamal Orissa, the Untouchable should take the lead.... For, White & Black issue in U.S, yes, whites should take the onus.

Somewhere you said, look we ourselves are struggling to keep ourselves safe... following the ideology of 'Live&Let Live".. For me, thats the poor moral standards, cos you are only letting him live free, under your mercy..Rather, lets move to a better higher moral standards... "Lets give him a helping hand to reach in par with us'

Now coming to the core point of black skin in Kollywood.. The answer is, you and me, and all our society, is higly infested with Varna..Even the Christians,buddhists,Jains still carry some bit of that...Some say, Jaathi as culture,but then, it naturally gets identified as who is low and who is high on the social strata...

All these problems would get sorted out, that, provided we all feel that this is something wrong...We can arugue Jaathi as culture/not by birth/just guna etc etc.. But we all need to ponder within ourselves, what we thing of in our heart and in our home.

Yes, we need to open hearted..."White Guilt' is missing in us..And to our surprise, and to keep our arguments going, we have lot many "House Niggers" too...

 

[sapr333]

Fact:

>>>>Periyar would be turning in his grave (so to say) to see North Indian brahmins dominating the civil services in Tamil Nadu.>>>

I Stand by you!! No words to counter.


>>>The average Tamilian feels inferior to the Hindi speaking North Indian.>>>

Not really..In this modern I.T era, I have heard Tamil verbatim is flowing in the IT corridor.. Rather, its time, Tamils used to tease Hindiwallas, for their poor English and accent.. And TB' contribution is great on that.. Please read my blog.


>>>I have personal experience because my children are often mistaken for Setthu (fair and fat) and get royal treatment in Chennai.>>

Couldnt comprehend this.. esp, Setthu.. You mean Plumy..???

>>>>My idea of posting is to say that the case of actresses and civil servants are both based on personal whims and fancies.>>

Yes, Tamil movie industry is occupied by fair skin.. Now,kollywood is behind much fair skins than Tamil-Copper coloured-skins.!!!.. They are all hanging out with Punjab and Gujarath skins.

>>>>But both are based on Caste. Jathi Veri is rampant in Tamil Nadu in all circles with no exceptions. No state is this bad.>>>

Varna is all about Colour supremacy right... Why Blame, they are all working on this doctrine of Skin Colour..

xz

 

[happyhindu]

Varna is all about Colour supremacy right... Why Blame, they are all working on this doctrine of Skin Colour..

no sir, varna is not about skin colour, certainly not abt color supremacy at all...

i think i had already mentioned the context of varna to diff hindu schools.

ppl say agastya was brown, short and pot-bellied. ppl claim he was a kshatriya by birth...ved vyas was dark skinned and skinny. ppl make varna claims of 2 diff varnas abt both of them...

not sure why you seem to associate brahmins with whites ...if one were to ask a (racist) white if an average brahmin look like a white guy or like a indian, he wud choose the latter...

so where is the connection b/w color with varna...

 

[sapr333]

no sir, varna is not about skin colour, certainly not abt color supremacy at all...

i think i had already mentioned the context of varna to diff hindu schools.

ppl say agastya was brown, short and pot-bellied. ppl claim he was a kshatriya by birth...ved vyas was dark skinned and skinny. ppl make varna claims of 2 diff varnas abt both of them...

HH, that discussion with Nacchinarkiniyan was 'not' on religious context.. I used the termn Varna, in social context.

I mean there is a issue globally on colour.. White skin ... He raised a good point about the fairness creams.. That advt.s are banned now in most of the countries, just because it projected the craving for white skin.