Spiritual energy as a source of energy

[renuka]

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No idea. I see almost all of my threads being transferred to this section. I hope Praveen will state the reason.

May be you can PM Praveen and ask him...no need for others to know the reason.

But anyway any discussion can take place here too.

 

[sravna]

May be you can PM Praveen and ask him...no need for others to know the reason.

But anyway any discussion can take place here too.

I do not mind discussion taking place here. It is all the same for me.

 

[subshob2001]

sir you may not believe you can really charge batteries that too the batteries which are not chargeable. in spirituality if you have only so much faith, you can not do anything

 

[sravna]

The question is not whether spiritual energy exists, but whether it will resolve the energy crisis. In the past and present there/are siddhas who have attained special powers through their dedicated sadhana. At some point of time they came to realise that such siddhis can never solve the basic human existential problem, hence worthless in the long run. Spiritual masters unequivocally state that man will be satisfied only by realisation of his essential unity with the universe (the present energy crisis is but another form of this human dissatisfaction leading us on to the quest of all kinds of material stuff to somehow quench the yearning for awhile)

Yes I am sure spiritual energy will resolve the energy crisis. I disagree with the view that it is worthless in the long run. Spiritual energy has to work with material stuff to be used in the way technology is used. It can be generated to any extent and costs nothing. I think enough energy can be generated to solve the energy problem permanently.

 

[Janaki Jambunathan]

Why is this thread in Chit Chat section?

If SE is really an energy then it has to be scalar - it has no direction and so in chit Chat!

 

[mssg]

Dear Shri Mssg,

Kindly list the queries that you want me to answer and I will try my best to answer them

Dear Sravna, was already clear in my query -- what is your take (on the effect of maya ..is creating illusion..)? Thanks.

 

[sravna]

Dear Shri Mssg,

I believe in the advaitin view that there is a force which is called maya that is instrumental in the creation of the physical and mental realities. The physical-mental reality is a projection of the spiritual reality and is a secondary reality and is also the reality that we mostly experience.

To experience the spiritual reality one has to overcome the effect of maya by the evolution of jivatma and therefore the mind. The experiences in the physical-mental reality pave the way for this.

 

[mssg]

Dear Shri Mssg,

I believe in the advaitin view that there is a force which is called maya that is instrumental in the creation of the physical and mental realities. The physical-mental reality is a projection of the spiritual reality and is a secondary reality and is also the reality that we mostly experience.

To experience the spiritual reality one has to overcome the effect of maya by the evolution of jivatma and therefore the mind. The experiences in the physical-mental reality pave the way for this.

Dear Sravna,

Thank you. Very succinctly put.

Some questions -
(1) Why do you label maya into a 'force'?

(2) If maya is creative 'force', why is maya called illusion? Hence, therefore, What is reality, in such case? If you are going to state advaitin view that brahman is the only reality, please consider this -- how does brahman become nirguna; and not aguna; with removal of maya illusion? If advatin brahman remains nirguna, does it not mean, maya remains unremoved from it? In advaita, how is the illusion removed?

(3) If maya is creativity why should it be overcome to experience 'spiritual reality'? Have you tried to overcome it? If so, how did you overcome it?

In advaita this is a borrowed concept. Therefore, perhaps looking into compositions of samkhya and buddhism may help. Alternatively, some pancharatra compositions may also help; though, it may not be as per the advaitin view. Sometimes, it becomes difficult to unlearn, to start on a clean slate, to understand something from all points of view. Just some thots.

Books apart, perhaps speaking of your own experiences of delving within will be nice to read. Hence, request you to put forth your views from your experiences.

Also, Sravana, i mean no disrespect to you. When someone speaks of having power to remove energy from a cyclone, or boil water using spiritual energy, it is seems misplaced. Glad that we are removed from that now. Let this thread be on your views on spiritual 'energy'; not on your powers.

Thanks.

 

[sravna]

Dear Sravna,

Thank you. Very succinctly put.

Some questions -
(1) Why do you label maya into a 'force'?

(2) If maya is creative 'force', why is maya called illusion? Hence, therefore, What is reality, in such case? If you are going to state advaitin view that brahman is the only reality, please consider this -- how does brahman become nirguna; and not aguna; with removal of maya illusion? If advatin brahman remains nirguna, does it not mean, maya remains unremoved from it? In advaita, how is the illusion removed?

(3) If maya is creativity why should it be overcome to experience 'spiritual reality'? Have you tried to overcome it? If so, how did you overcome it?

In advaita this is a borrowed concept. Therefore, perhaps looking into compositions of samkhya and buddhism may help. Alternatively, some pancharatra compositions may also help; though, it may not be as per the advaitin view. Sometimes, it becomes difficult to unlearn, to start on a clean slate, to understand something from all points of view. Just some thots.

Books apart, perhaps speaking of your own experiences of delving within will be nice to read. Hence, request you to put forth your views from your experiences.

Also, Sravana, i mean no disrespect to you. When someone speaks of having power to remove energy from a cyclone, or boil water using spiritual energy, it is seems misplaced. Glad that we are removed from that now. Let this thread be on your views on spiritual 'energy'; not on your powers.

Thanks.

Dear Shri Mssg,

The effect of maya is to produce an alternate reality being the physical-mental reality. This reality is experienced as a disconnected reality compared to the totally connected experience of the spiritual reality. When something is fully connected like nirguna brahman, the effect of maya is not perceived because maya cannot produce a disconnected effect on a fully connected reality. So even though maya is one with nirguna brahman, it cannot produce any illusion in nirguna brahman.

Nirguna brahman being projected as saguna brahman and maya , the illusory power of maya is used by saguna brahman to produce the illusory physical-mental reality

Even though maya is creativity it creates a lower reality from a higher reality and hence need to be overcome to experience the blissful higher reality. This is a natural process because physical-mental reality is an illusion and illusion does not last long.

I will talk about my experiences in overcoming maya soon.

 

[mssg]

Dear Sravna,

Dear Shri Mssg,

The effect of maya is to produce an alternate reality being the physical-mental reality. This reality is experienced as a disconnected reality compared to the totally connected experience of the spiritual reality.

How are you sure maya produces alternate reality? Have you ever experienced it as disconnected reality? Wish you spoke of your personal experiences first. Otherwise, most of what follows will not become relatable.

When something is fully connected like nirguna brahman, the effect of maya is not perceived because maya cannot produce a disconnected effect on a fully connected reality. So even though maya is one with nirguna brahman, it cannot produce any illusion in nirguna brahman.

You have an interesting take on this, a unique perspective which most advaitins do not speak or write about. Guess this is your own approach. Nice to know. Would like to know -- how would you know that nirguna is fully connected reality? What is reality in such case?

So, you are accepting that maya remain unremoved from nirguna brahman. But you say it cannot produce illusion in nirguna brahman. Can you please explain first, why should maya be considered illusion? Also, request you to touch on this -- In advaita, how is the illusion removed?

If you say maya produces a disconnected effect, yet remains unremoved from nirguna brahman, don't you think nirguna brahman itself is a disconnected concept? A concept that asks you to believe the whole world is an illusion (because maya cannot be removed from nirguna brahman)? If the whole world is an illusion, why should maya be removed / overcome, at all?

Nirguna brahman being projected as saguna brahman and maya , the illusory power of maya is used by saguna brahman to produce the illusory physical-mental reality

Even though maya is creativity it creates a lower reality from a higher reality and hence need to be overcome to experience the blissful higher reality. This is a natural process because physical-mental reality is an illusion and illusion does not last long.

If maya creates a lower reality, then why does it remain unremoved from your concept of nirguna brahman? Moreover, you say higher reality is blissful? Is it? Does not the brain shut down its sensory abilities temporarily, even normally during meditative practices for anyone?

This part (of lower and higher reality) is better explained by buddhist monks. Also also by Iskcon monks. Except that they take 2 different takes. Iskcon believes in surrendering to the lord / fate (which is fatalism). Buddhism tried to manage dukkha without necessarily surrendering to fate / lord. By doing so, they came up with several concepts and explanations, one of which is assigning dukkha to avidya. Later, this view helped create a defined concept of reincarnation / rebirth; which became deeply embedded in some pancharatra compositions; and became normal place in puranic stories.

Indeed, when avidya is removed that no one really dies, but comes back again, it leads to mental strength. However, nirguna brahman addresses none of this. It believes in moksham; from which there is no return.

Will be worthwhile to keep in mind, you can have rebirth, only when brahman is saguna. Also, only when brahman is saguna, maya can remain unremoved, in the concept you state above. In effect, what you are describing is actually saguna brahman.

To address rebirth versus moksham part, Shankara says nobody can attain nirguna brahman. Nobody can become master of the universe (which is the main take away from Shankara's bhasya on brahmasutra also). Which means, nobody can remove strength from a cyclone. This also means, nirguna is not nirguna at all.

Due to such inconsistencies, we may have to take some history into account. Shankara's nirguna brahman is a philosophical concept that came about in times when there was competition with Buddhists. We shall not go into that part. It would suffice to say, nirguna brahman is incomplete.

Yet, all gurus of this age (including even ramana maharishi to current day jaggi vasudev, ravi shankar, nityananda, etc) are all advaitins. As for current day gurus, our public likes verbal jugglery and wisecracks more; instead of reading into experiences of ancient seers, to understand their representations. Hardly does anyone bother to read up on buddhism or jainism. We are indoctrinated into thinking vedas are the beginning and end of all knowledge. Sadly, most people who read up buddhism do so only to find loopholes, to contradict it because they think they should do so (since their birth identity creates such attachment effect. Subconsciously they seek to put vedas /vedanta above everything else because they think it belongs to them. When such attachment exists, how is it possible to understand reality at all? In effect, how is possible to realize nirguna or any brahman at all? We too end up with jugglery of words, to buttress our positions, isn't it?).

Anyways, hope you realize what you have been describing all along, across so many threads, is saguna brahman. Maya can be resolved only in saguna brahman; if you are going to take the vedic/vedanta view.

I will talk about my experiences in overcoming maya soon.

Please write in about this first. How did you overcome maya? How did you do it? What were the results / effects?

Thanks.

 

[sravna]

Dear Shri Mssg,

Spiritual energy is what can remove maya. Spiritual energy is nothing but knowledge and power. One attains it by experiences in various births and the subsequent realizations of truths.

By God's grace I am able to use spiritual energy consciously and sub consciously and overcome any effects on the body and mind. When I do that my perspective on anything drastically changes. So far I have been getting them in short bursts but the frequency and duration are increasing.

Thus I can have been through both the spiritual and non spiritual perspectives, the quality of "being" considerably higher in the latter. Now I am of the conviction that what Shankara expounded is totally true and there is a lower reality due to some force whose removal results in higher quality experiences.

I will talk more about it as I gain more experiences.