Seed of Thought (Social drinking by women and men)..

[sankara_sharmah]

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The O.P assumes that the parents play a large role in molding the children's lives. This is wrong. Parents play only a limited role.

Once some parents expressed their anguish to a Guru about the children " we have brought them up so carefully. But this is what has happened. Are we to blame?" The Guru said "there is no point in blaming one self for the fault of the children. We bring them up to the best of our abilities. But then the parents have only a limited role. Their own Vasanas take over then. Stop blaming yourselves."

My sons were sent to a residential school at the age of ten. They continued there till 12th class and then went to college. My home is not orthodox or traditional except for daily Puja. The only thing I inculcated in my children was a belief in the almighty GOD. They were taught Slokas and prayers before the alphabet. Our annual holiday always included Pilgrimage and visit to temples though we spent more time in resorts. We used to sing Bhajans together as a family.

My children were used to my drinking at home and parties. I remember once when we visited a friend in Kerala, they served Chukku Vellam which is dark in color. My eldest son suddenly exclaimed "I thought that this was whisky." He was Five at that time.

With this kind of upbringing none of my sons drink regularly. One of them is a teetotaler. They are not non-Vegetarians either. One of them is a vegetarian. Both are religious. One of them is a religious nut. He has studied Sanskrit and Astrology to help in his religious practices. We are frankly not very happy about it.

What I am trying to emphasize is that it is the Vasanas which determine one's attitude. Let us not delude ourselves by thinking that the parents play a major role or we can mold them.

 

[thebigthinkg]

The O.P assumes that the parents play a large role in molding the children's lives. This is wrong. Parents play only a limited role.

Once some parents expressed their anguish to a Guru about the children " we have brought them up so carefully. But this is what has happened. Are we to blame?" The Guru said "there is no point in blaming one self for the fault of the children. We bring them up to the best of our abilities. But then the parents have only a limited role. Their own Vasanas take over then. Stop blaming yourselves."

My sons were sent to a residential school at the age of ten. They continued there till 12th class and then went to college. My home is not orthodox or traditional except for daily Puja. The only thing I inculcated in my children was a belief in the almighty GOD. They were taught Slokas and prayers before the alphabet. Our annual holiday always included Pilgrimage and visit to temples though we spent more time in resorts. We used to sing Bhajans together as a family.

My children were used to my drinking at home and parties. I remember once when we visited a friend in Kerala, they served Chukku Vellam which is dark in color. My eldest son suddenly exclaimed "I thought that this was whisky." He was Five at that time.

With this kind of upbringing none of my sons drink regularly. One of them is a teetotaler. They are not non-Vegetarians either. One of them is a vegetarian. Both are religious. One of them is a religious nut. He has studied Sanskrit and Astrology to help in his religious practices. We are frankly not very happy about it.

What I am trying to emphasize is that it is the Vasanas which determine one's attitude. Let us not delude ourselves by thinking that the parents play a major role or we can mold them.

Well No. I do not think that was the message of the write up.

I very well know that children are through us and not from us. So what parents at best can provide is thoughts that help children guide and grow.

So it is not that parents play a MAJOR role, but they DO play a role in guiding some of the core thought processes in kids. (because what is major can always be debated..).

Hence thoughts and value-systems that we seed in children, may not manifest in the way we see it, but do play a role in their overall evolution.

A person drinks or not, eats meat or not depends on a lot of factors including 'time', 'environment' et al.. It is not just dependent on parents alone. (The daughter character in the write-up says that clearly and father character acknowledges it). But thought processes that a person acquires do influence the behavior of a person and can help him/her to self-regulate in future..

Not just child behavior even the future parental behavior of a child is influenced by parents shows research.
-TBT

 

[sangom]

Science is latest wisdom. Culture is collective wisdom from the past. We need to be using both appropriately.

When I was a kid, Smoking was a hep thing. People smoked for style and pleasure. Science did not tell us that it causes harm.

Even when the ill-effects of smoking started coming out, tobacco companies brought in filter-cigarettes and they were marketed as 'Safe'. Commercialism overran real science for long time. Many Indians were taken in by the 'science' of filter cigarettes.

Finally when science emerged back after a huge amount of lung cancer deaths in Europe and US, it was too late. We had several generations of Indians addicted to smoking and remain a growing market for tobacco products.

So science changes. As i grew up, as my friends started smoking following the style of Rajini-kanth and for pleasure, it my culture at home that told me not to follow it. I stayed out of it. Today as they struggle with various diseases and trying hard to get out, I remain free of it. I thank my culture.


-TBT

Dear Shri TBT,

As I have said in another occasion, "culture" is a word used in many contexts without knowing what exactly we mean by that word. If we go back to our vedas, all the devas were very fond of an exhilarating drink called "soma" which, it looks from the scanty evidences available in our scriptures themselves, was produced by pressing a kind of creeper in specially designed hand rolled presses and then sieving it with a sort of metallic sieve. The composers of rigveda hymns also seem to have relished this drink. Hence, from the standpoint of that day's "our culture" will not debar drinking, imo.

Even in the case of tobacco, I think the anti-tobacco campaign was as highly frenzied as the sales pitch of cigarettes was in those olden days, but I have not yet been able to unravel the source of funds which created such a high anti-tobacco pitch and what if any, was the unstated intent behind it. True cigarettes may be carcinogenic but cancer attacks even orthodox tabra purohits.

There is, therefore, no great virtue in saying drinking is to be absolutely abhorred, etc., I think.

 

[thebigthinkg]

Dear Shri TBT,

As I have said in another occasion, "culture" is a word used in many contexts without knowing what exactly we mean by that word. If we go back to our vedas, all the devas were very fond of an exhilarating drink called "soma" which, it looks from the scanty evidences available in our scriptures themselves, was produced by pressing a kind of creeper in specially designed hand rolled presses and then sieving it with a sort of metallic sieve. The composers of rigveda hymns also seem to have relished this drink. Hence, from the standpoint of that day's "our culture" will not debar drinking, imo.

Even in the case of tobacco, I think the anti-tobacco campaign was as highly frenzied as the sales pitch of cigarettes was in those olden days, but I have not yet been able to unravel the source of funds which created such a high anti-tobacco pitch and what if any, was the unstated intent behind it. True cigarettes may be carcinogenic but cancer attacks even orthodox tabra purohits.

There is, therefore, no great virtue in saying drinking is to be absolutely abhorred, etc., I think.

Sir,

Let's split it into different points

1. I think the logic of Soma as a 'drink' (if u r referring to Vedas) is absolute mis-interpretation, in my view. Soma in my view is an acidic substance and has been used with various meanings in many places. But that is a longer debate and as I write my interpretations on Rg vedic slokas my views will be more clear.

At the least there are more people than me, who do not accept Soma as an alcoholic drink.

2. See here a history of anti-tobacco movement. Though it was clear by 1964 that tobacco kills and western government started controlling the tobacco industry and focussed on reducing tobacco use, even in 1990's third world marketing policies of tobacco giants suppressed the ill-effects of smoking and passive smoking. It is really a hard-fought battle and Indians have paid heavily for it.

http://www.ash.org.uk/files/documents/ASH_741.pdf

3. Please do not trivialize the relationship between cigarettes and lung diseases and cancer, by saying every one gets it etc.. Cancer has so many reasons and one of them is definitely cigarettes. So an argument that anyway we get cancer, why blame cigarette is not a right one.

-TBT

 

[prasad1]

Mr. TBT post#23,

Science is latest wisdom. Culture is collective wisdom from the past. We need to be using both appropriately.

What part of whose culture is wisdom?

When you narrow it down it is more of bragging right than anything. I have great respect for my culture, and I would like you to follow my culture. If your culture differs from mine I may not like it.

For instance I am vegetarian, I like that culture, I do not like culture of non-vegetarian.

In science there is no two sides. I and you both have to live with "gravity", whether you like it or not.

 

[prasad1]

1. I think the logic of Soma as a 'drink' (if u r referring to Vedas) is absolute mis-interpretation, in my view. Soma in my view is an acidic substance and has been used with various meanings in many places. But that is a longer debate and as I write my interpretations on Rg vedic slokas my views will be more clear.


At the least there are more people than me, who do not accept Soma as an alcoholic drink.


-TBT

The inconvenient truth is:

It is described as being prepared by extracting juice from the stalks of a certain plant. In both Vedic and Zoroastrian tradition, the name of the drink and the plant are the same, and the three forming a religious or mythological unity.
The Rigveda calls the plant "God for Gods" seemingly giving him precedence above Indra and the other Gods (RV 9.42[2])
There has been much speculation concerning what is most likely to have been the identity of the original plant. There is no solid consensus on the question, although some Western experts outside the Vedic and Avestan religious traditions now seem to favour a species of Ephedra, perhaps Ephedra sinica.

Soma - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[thebigthinkg]

The inconvenient truth is:



Soma - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Sir,

You are quoting from wiki which quotes from what Ralph Griffith and max mueller interpreted lexically. I translate from original vedic verses and u will see those in these columns too soon.

Soma is indeed used with different meanings in different places and the attribution of soma to a drink occurs from the characteristics of it giving energy to the recepient. In Puranic times, anything that gives energy could be named soma and when we see from now back into the past, we will see it as soma drink being treated as a 'god'.

-TBT

 

[prasad1]

Sir,

You are quoting from wiki which quotes from what Ralph Griffith and max mueller interpreted lexically. I translate from original vedic verses and u will see those in these columns too soon.

Soma is indeed used with different meanings in different places and the attribution of soma to a drink occurs from the characteristics of it giving energy to the recepient. In Puranic times, anything that gives energy could be named soma and when we see from now back into the past, we will see it as soma drink being treated as a 'god'.

-TBT

You might produce some of your findings and interpretations, and I can produce much more scientific proof from other scholars. We can have that battle, and none will come out winner. I am going to believe my experts and you are going to defend your positions, it is no win situation.
UNLESS you can produce the true some drink, and we can get some chemical analysis done in a modern lab. So you can try your explanations without any effect.

Soma (drink) definition of Soma (drink) in the Free Online Encyclopedia.

In ancient Indian religion, an unidentified plant, the juice of which was an offering of the Vedic sacrifices. Its stalks were pressed, and its juice, filtered through wool, was mixed with water and milk. After being offered as a libation to the gods, the remainder of the soma was consumed by the priests and the sacrificer. It was highly valued for its exhilarating, probably hallucinogenic, effect. The plant was believed to have been delivered to the earth from heaven by an eagle. The personified deity Soma was the master of plants, healer of disease, and bestower of riches.

Mr. TBT,
May be you think that Vedas are God, I am not under that illusion. I believe vedas to be a source of information.

 

[thebigthinkg]

The inconvenient truth is:



Soma - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Just to augment my previous point, I am quoting from Rg Veda Mandala 3 Hymn 62 (which has the Gayatri mantra in it), which I am currently working on..

From Rgveda mandala 3 Hymn 62.13

somo jighāti ghātuvid devānāmeti niṣkṛtam ṛtasya yonimāsadam
somo asmabhyaṃ dvipade catuṣpade ca paśave anamīvā iṣas karat

The translation by Griffith (which I think is totally incorrect) is

13. Soma who gives success goes forth, goes to the gathering place of Gods, To seat him at the seat of Law.
14. To us and to our cattle may Soma give salutary food, To biped and to quadruped.


If Soma is an alcoholic drink then it establishes law and order, gives success, goes to the gathering place of gods, it gives food for two-feet and four-feet animals.?

Also if u look at the whole translation of these verses (which are at times awfully wrong according to their own references), one can only conclude that it is a mumbo-jumbo of old drunken men (which is what we are pushed to infer) or the translation is done by old drunken men, who did not care to do their 'research' properly..Unfortunately our 'intellectuals' have bought this stuff....

-TBT

 

[sankara_sharmah]

People who are not used to social drinking do not know how to stay sober after drinking. In social drinking whether at home or in parties, you have a couple of drinks and then have food. A couple of drinks increases the apetite. You may drink again after dinner, but you know that you should never get drunk.

In Bombay and Kolkata you get invited to many parties especially if you are a conversationlist and hold a good enough position. X throws a party to please Y. But X needs others to fill the party. So couples get invited. All you need is a three piece suit and a wife who also enjoys these parties. But if one get drunk in one of the parties that is the last party he would attend.

Unfortunately I have seen especially in Tamil Nadu and Kerala that people think that to drink is to get Drunk. They do not seem to appreciate the drinks. The idea is to get drunk. The idea of "Holding your drink" is unknown.

In clubs, parties and homes getting drunk is not an accptable behaviour. One who gets drunk gets dropped like a Hot Potato.

If you totally prohibit drinks of any sort the idea of holding one's drink may not be known.

If all the people who have ever tasted a drink turn out to be Alcoholics, the entire Western world (all the Christians) should have become Alcoholics by now.

A night cap does a lot of good. When your health need picking ua peg of good old Nepolean brandy at the time of going to bed helps a lot.

Doctors have used Brandy as a pick up for patients.

Alcohol used in limited quantities is good for health.

 

[thebigthinkg]

You might produce some of your findings and interpretations, and I can produce much more scientific proof from other scholars. We can have that battle, and none will come out winner. I am going to believe my experts and you are going to defend your positions, it is no win situation.
UNLESS you can produce the true some drink, and we can get some chemical analysis done in a modern lab. So you can try your explanations without any effect.

Soma (drink) definition of Soma (drink) in the Free Online Encyclopedia.



Mr. TBT,
May be you think that Vedas are God, I am not under that illusion. I believe vedas to be a source of information.

Well I do not think Vedas are 'God'.

Vedas are source of information true, but the current interpretations of it are awfully wrong. None, including me can claim that this is the right interpretation.

So the idea that Soma is a drink as referred in vedic texts is simply wrong. You also seem to accept that there is insufficient proofs for all these interpretations..

If Soma is not at all a drink then the idea that people drank alcoholic Soma and they made it from some plants is also wrong.

For something that u cannnot prove, why do u bring an argument that people drank an alcoholic soma..?

-TBT

 

[thebigthinkg]

People who are not used to social drinking do not know how to stay sober after drinking. In social drinking whether at home or in parties, you have a couple of drinks and then have food. A couple of drinks increases the apetite. You may drink again after dinner, but you know that you should never get drunk.

In Bombay and Kolkata you get invited to many parties especially if you are a conversationlist and hold a good enough position. X throws a party to please Y. But X needs others to fill the party. So couples get invited. All you need is a three piece suit and a wife who also enjoys these parties. But if one get drunk in one of the parties that is the last party he would attend.

Unfortunately I have seen especially in Tamil Nadu and Kerala that people think that to drink is to get Drunk. They do not seem to appreciate the drinks. The idea is to get drunk. The idea of "Holding your drink" is unknown.

In clubs, parties and homes getting drunk is not an accptable behaviour. One who gets drunk gets dropped like a Hot Potato.

If you totally prohibit drinks of any sort the idea of holding one's drink may not be known.

If all the people who have ever tasted a drink turn out to be Alcoholics, the entire Western world (all the Christians) should have become Alcoholics by now.

A night cap does a lot of good. When your health need picking ua peg of good old Nepolean brandy at the time of going to bed helps a lot.

Doctors have used Brandy as a pick up for patients.

Alcohol used in limited quantities is good for health.

I remember a story from GB Shaw. He was a teetotaller and suffered heart-attack. It seems he was given Brandy and it saved his life. So his friends ridiculed him saying that only a Brandy saved his life. He retorted "Brandy saved my life because I never drank it till now. If I had, it would not have".

-TBT
-TBT

 

[prasad1]

For something that u cannnot prove, why do u bring an argument that people drank an alcoholic soma..?

-TBT

I do not think it is alcoholic drink. It is more potent hallucinogenic drink.
For thousands of years, people have used hallucinogenic drinks to alter the mind. Some are reported to have beneficial properties while others can have serious side effects. The most popular hallucinogenic drinks have been around for centuries and in some cases are still used today.

 

[vsubbu48]

In Kerala most of the people drink and Malayalam movies invariably have some scenes showing drinking sessions. It will be interesting to know whether there is any study to showhow this alcoholism affected Keralites.

 

[sankara_sharmah]

Alcoholism is a major problems facing Kerala. But then they tend to sweep it under the carpet because liquor barons control politics there.

 

[thebigthinkg]

I do not think it is alcoholic drink. It is more potent hallucinogenic drink.
For thousands of years, people have used hallucinogenic drinks to alter the mind. Some are reported to have beneficial properties while others can have serious side effects. The most popular hallucinogenic drinks have been around for centuries and in some cases are still used today.

That hallucinogenic drinks have beneficial properties is a very hollow or incorrect statement. Can u give one example for it..?

In any case associating 'Soma' with it is wrong. As i said several verses in Rg Veda will not make sense if u assume Soma is an alcoholic (or halucinogenic or even acidic, which many halucinogenic substances are)..

-TBT

 

[prasad1]

Soma (Sanskrit), or Haoma (Avestan), from Proto-Indo-Iranian *sauma-, was a ritual drink of importance among the early Indo-Iranians, and the later Vedic and greater Persian cultures. It is frequently mentioned in the Rigveda, which contains many hymns praising its energizing or intoxicating qualities. In the Avesta, Haoma has an entire Yasht dedicated to it.


It is described as prepared by pressing juice from the stalks of a certain mountain plant, which has been variously hypothesized to be a psychedelic mushroom, cannabis, peganum harmala, or ephedra. In both Vedic and Zoroastrian tradition, the drink is identified with the plant, and also personified as a divinity, the three forming a religious or mythological unity.
......

Candidates for the Soma plant
There has been much speculation as to the original Proto-Indo-Iranian Sauma plant. It was generally assumed to be hallucinogenic, based on RV 8.48 cited above. But note that this is the only evidence of hallucinogenic properties, in a book full of hymns to Soma. The typical description of Soma is associated with excitation and tapas. Soma is associated with the warrior-god Indra, and appears to have been drunk before battle. For these reasons, there are energizing plants as well as hallucinogenic plants among the candidates that have been suggested. In fact, several texts like the Atharva Veda extol the medicinal properties of Soma and he is regarded as the king of medicinal herbs (and also of the Brahmana class).


Since the late 1700s, when Anquetil-Duperron and others made portions of the Avesta available to western scholarship, several scholars have sought a representative botanical equivalent of the haoma as described in the texts and as used in living Zoroastrian practice. Most of the proposals concentrated on either linguistic evidence or comparative pharmacology or reflected ritual use. Rarely were all three considered together, which usually resulted in such proposals being quickly rejected.


In the late 19th century, the highly conservative Zoroastrians of Yazd (Iran) were found to use Ephedra (genus Ephedra), which was locally known as hum or homa and which they exported to the Indian Zoroastrians. (Aitchison, 1888) The plant, as Falk also established, requires a cool and dry climate, i.e. it does not grow in India (which is either too hot or too humid or both) but thrives in central Asia. Later, it was discovered that a number of Iranian languages and Persian dialects have hom or similar terms as the local name for some variant of Ephedra. Considered together, the linguistic and ritual evidence appeared to conclusively establish that haoma was some variant of Ephedra.

Soma - Who or What is Soma? Find out more

When you remove the curtain the wizard is an ordinary mortal with common sense.

 

[thebigthinkg]

Soma (Sanskrit), or Haoma (Avestan), from Proto-Indo-Iranian *sauma-, was a ritual drink of importance among the early Indo-Iranians, and the later Vedic and greater Persian cultures. It is frequently mentioned in the Rigveda, which contains many hymns praising its energizing or intoxicating qualities. In the Avesta, Haoma has an entire Yasht dedicated to it.It is described as prepared by pressing juice from the stalks of a certain mountain plant, which has been variously hypothesized to be a psychedelic mushroom, cannabis, peganum harmala, or ephedra. In both Vedic and Zoroastrian tradition, the drink is identified with the plant, and also personified as a divinity, the three forming a religious or mythological unity.......Candidates for the Soma plantThere has been much speculation as to the original Proto-Indo-Iranian Sauma plant. It was generally assumed to be hallucinogenic, based on RV 8.48 cited above. But note that this is the only evidence of hallucinogenic properties, in a book full of hymns to Soma. The typical description of Soma is associated with excitation and tapas. Soma is associated with the warrior-god Indra, and appears to have been drunk before battle. For these reasons, there are energizing plants as well as hallucinogenic plants among the candidates that have been suggested. In fact, several texts like the Atharva Veda extol the medicinal properties of Soma and he is regarded as the king of medicinal herbs (and also of the Brahmana class).Since the late 1700s, when Anquetil-Duperron and others made portions of the Avesta available to western scholarship, several scholars have sought a representative botanical equivalent of the haoma as described in the texts and as used in living Zoroastrian practice. Most of the proposals concentrated on either linguistic evidence or comparative pharmacology or reflected ritual use. Rarely were all three considered together, which usually resulted in such proposals being quickly rejected.In the late 19th century, the highly conservative Zoroastrians of Yazd (Iran) were found to use Ephedra (genus Ephedra), which was locally known as hum or homa and which they exported to the Indian Zoroastrians. (Aitchison, 1888) The plant, as Falk also established, requires a cool and dry climate, i.e. it does not grow in India (which is either too hot or too humid or both) but thrives in central Asia. Later, it was discovered that a number of Iranian languages and Persian dialects have hom or similar terms as the local name for some variant of Ephedra. Considered together, the linguistic and ritual evidence appeared to conclusively establish that haoma was some variant of Ephedra.Soma - Who or What is Soma? Find out moreWhen you remove the curtain the wizard is an ordinary mortal with common sense.

As clearly mentioned at the start of the wiki page (Botanical identity of soma-hoama) it is yet unverified and needs references. Not just that. There are several candidates (as mentioned in the page itself) for Soma but which have been ruled out for one reason or other.

Even Ephedra ruled out because it cannot grow in India, but considered close because it is lexically similar... (according to that article).

A person who really reads Pavamana Sukta will understand the fallacy behind seeing soma as a drink. In fact I quoted a simple verse from Rg Veda Mandala 3 refering to soma. That can't be explained with a mushroom or a drink.

Read this for eg. This is a better reference than the wiki page for treating soma as a plant. Though I don't agree with the overall author's line of investigation (limiting search for soma to a plant and looking for dosage levels), I think the author understands the relationship between Soma and light/energy, Soma in microcoms and macrocosm. Atleast author acknowledges the challenges in Soma and not simplify it like the wiki page..http://csp.org/chrestomathy/soma_divine_hallucinogen.html

Quote "Whether or not soma induces visionary experiences must depend on how it is prepared in the ceremony. As a drink, it could not always have induced visionary experiences with strong hallucinations because the Rg Veda indicates that others in addition to the priests took soma on a daily basis for long periods of time. It would have been not only impractical, but probably impossible, for soma to have been prepared as a hallucinogenic in these cases. If soma were always hallucinogenic, it would have interfered with the completion of the soma ceremony itself, which was of paramount importance for maintaining the stability of the cosmos, order, fertility, and life on earth."

This is another way of seeing soma..http://hindurevolution.blogspot.in/2011/03/soma-in-vedas.html

According to monier-williams the best soma can be described as is juice/sap.

From my studies I understand Soma is more cytoplasm or more nucleoplasm. But that is an incomplete info as of now.. I need to go miles on it..

-TBT

 

[sangom]

Unfortunately I have seen especially in Tamil Nadu and Kerala that people think that to drink is to get Drunk. They do not seem to appreciate the drinks. The idea is to get drunk. The idea of "Holding your drink" is unknown.

Dear Shri Sharmah,

I want to inform you that even today you will find some christian families (middle income and lower, even) in which the entire family including women and men of all ages drink together, seated at the dining table and they rarely get drunk. The tradition was to drink toddy, particularly அந்திக் கள்ளு (antik kaḷḷu) toddy tapped and downloaded from the coconut tree in the evening, but today, after all the land reforms etc., people have switched over to bottled foreign brands also.

 

[prasad1]

Mr. TBT,

Even Ephedra ruled out because it cannot grow in India, but considered close because it is lexically similar... (according to that article).

What is India now is not what is talked about in RV. Soma grown in the the arid climate of the hills in Afganistan, Tajikistan, or Turkmenistan. So it is not ruled out.
I do not know if you saw in PBS series they showed how to brew it (with Michael Wood).

That was an interesting piece on the som tea, but you never said what it tasted like or if it had any effect on you.

It did! I didn't know what strength to make it and felt extremely fizzy afterwards. Not surprising I guess as the main ingredient in the ephedra plant is natural ephedrine.

Responses | The Story of India - Ask Michael Wood | PBS

 

[thebigthinkg]

Mr. TBT,

What is India now is not what is talked about in RV. Soma grown in the the arid climate of the hills in Afganistan, Tajikistan, or Turkmenistan. So it is not ruled out.
I do not know if you saw in PBS series they showed how to brew it (with Michael Wood).

That was an interesting piece on the som tea, but you never said what it tasted like or if it had any effect on you.


Responses | The Story of India - Ask Michael Wood | PBS

Well, I know the Aryan Invasion theory. That is not the point. The point is according to that article Soma is lexically similar to Zorastiran Hoama and there is Ephedra that igrows all over Eastern Iran and hence Ephedra is Soma/Hoama.

Several Ephedra type species have been used in china for thousands of years and some of them grow in Iran and Eastern Afghanistan. Though it is touted as a candidate for Soma, it is NOT the thing. There are also several mushrooms that are talked about as the Soma. I think I saw michael woods' series sometime back (or may be read about it)..

As I gave the other links, Soma is much more complex if u understand Rg Veda or try to read various interpretations of it.

Soma is the one that drives plants and animals (both two-legged and four legged) says Rg Veda. I do not think Ephedra drives plants and animals.

Aurobindo writes in his Secret of Vedas "Of that beatitude Soma is the representative deity. The wine of his ecstasy is concealed in the growths of earth, in the waters of existence; even here in our physical being are his immortalisingjuices and they have to be pressed out and offered to all the gods; for in that strength these shall increase and conquer."

Does ephedra's ecstasy conceal the growth of earth and waters that sustain existence..?

IN Rg Veda Mandala 9.83, according to Aurobindo's translation again "This is the supreme dappled Bull that makes the Dawns to shine out, the Male that bears the worlds of the becoming and seeks the plenitude; the Fathers who had the forming knowledge made a form of him by that power of knowledge which is his; strong in vision they set him within as a child to be born.".

Could this refer to Ephedra..?

To simplify Soma to an alcoholic drug is simply ignorance and is NOT in any way a proven fact. It is all different interpretations.

Read Aurobindo for his interpretations.

Though I don't agree with several of Aurobindo's interpretations, I agree with his reasoning that Vedic interpretations (not translations) made by several western scholars doing lexical and geographical analysis miss a lot of dimensions.

-TBT

 

[renuka]

What I am trying to emphasize is that it is the Vasanas which determine one's attitude. Let us not delude ourselves by thinking that the parents play a major role or we can mold them.

Dear Sir,

I totally agree with your statement.

As parents we have limited roles to shape the future of our children.

And to Bigthinkg Ji..may be you can get a clearer picture of the truth explained by Sankara Sarma ji if I explain this at a macrocosmic level.

Ok here goes..at a macrocosmic level..God is like our Father and we are like his children.
Does God really have a major role in shaping us?

The answer is NO.

We shape ourselves solely due to our Karma which is to a great extent influenced by our tendencies(vasanas).

Only we can help ourselves using God and His works as a guide but we make ourselves or break ourselves finally.

So same way..in a microcosmic scale as parents we can only guide to a certain extent and the final decision is in the hands of our children.

 

[thebigthinkg]

Dear Sir,

I totally agree with your statement.

As parents we have limited roles to shape the future of our children.

And to Bigthinkg Ji..may be you can get a clearer picture of the truth explained by Sankara Sarma ji if I explain this at a macrocosmic level.

Ok here goes..at a macrocosmic level..God is like our Father and we are like his children.
Does God really have a major role in shaping us?

The answer is NO.

We shape ourselves solely due to our Karma which is to a great extent influenced by our tendencies(vasanas).

Only we can help ourselves using God and His works as a guide but we make ourselves or break ourselves finally.

So same way..in a microcosmic scale as parents we can only guide to a certain extent and the final decision is in the hands of our children.

I can only smile at 'ur God is Father we are his children yet not same' theory. Sorry to say, it is a bit childish.

Evolution is the hall-mark of this Universe. I wrote sometime back "In every life there is a lesson. Learning it is called Evolution". In that learning process, parents are enablers. This whole blog was just to convey that parents should enable their children to learn and understand that thoughts are like seeds that would grow on them at appropriate points of time.

It did not mean that children will be exact replica of parents or simply will follow them. Now from my previous reply to that post of Sankara Sharma Sir...
**************

Well No. I do not think that was the message of the write up.

I very well know that children are through us and not from us. So what parents at best can provide is thoughts that help children guide and grow.

So it is not that parents play a MAJOR role, but they DO play a role in guiding some of the core thought processes in kids. (because what is major can always be debated..).

Hence thoughts and value-systems that we seed in children, may not manifest in the way we see it, but do play a role in their overall evolution.

A person drinks or not, eats meat or not depends on a lot of factors including 'time', 'environment' et al.. It is not just dependent on parents alone. (The daughter character in the write-up says that clearly and father character acknowledges it). But thought processes that a person acquires do influence the behavior of a person and can help him/her to self-regulate in future..

Not just child behavior even the future parental behavior of a child is influenced by parents shows research.

-TBT

 

[anamika]

TBT Sir,

It is surprising to note that the same type of argument happened btn me and my husband. He believes that there is nothing wrong in a small drink. You need not drink, but don't criticize those who have drinks, he tells me! It is just a social fashion, If you don't like, you can have pepsi, that's his view point! Don't paint everyone as an addict! - is his view!!

But I feel it is very wrong to have a view like this. It means ACCEPTANCE of a bad habit which has the potential to ruin a person's entire life. Thinking about bigshots and all those is one side, just by accepting that it is social and that there is nothing wrong in drinking, does anybody know how many students take to drinking these days?

If a thing is dangerous and supposedly will make you addict,then why to hail it with a good name ,better say this is bad frankly and openly and accept the criticism? Just because we feel we will be termed 'traditional and conservative' we lack the guts to call a spade a spade.

It is said 'Wise men learn from other's mistakes' ; why should everybody do the same mistake and learn by that way itself? It is better to abstain from drinking and let us remove the social status given to it. Atleast imho, those who fear the ridicule of society will be kept away from being tempted to 'drink'.

regards
anamika

I can only smile at 'ur God is Father we are his children yet not same' theory. Sorry to say, it is a bit childish.

Evolution is the hall-mark of this Universe. I wrote sometime back "In every life there is a lesson. Learning it is called Evolution". In that learning process, parents are enablers. This whole blog was just to convey that parents should enable their children to learn and understand that thoughts are like seeds that would grow on them at appropriate points of time.

It did not mean that children will be exact replica of parents or simply will follow them. Now from my previous reply to that post of Sankara Sharma Sir...
**************

Well No. I do not think that was the message of the write up.

I very well know that children are through us and not from us. So what parents at best can provide is thoughts that help children guide and grow.

So it is not that parents play a MAJOR role, but they DO play a role in guiding some of the core thought processes in kids. (because what is major can always be debated..).

Hence thoughts and value-systems that we seed in children, may not manifest in the way we see it, but do play a role in their overall evolution.

A person drinks or not, eats meat or not depends on a lot of factors including 'time', 'environment' et al.. It is not just dependent on parents alone. (The daughter character in the write-up says that clearly and father character acknowledges it). But thought processes that a person acquires do influence the behavior of a person and can help him/her to self-regulate in future..

Not just child behavior even the future parental behavior of a child is influenced by parents shows research.

-TBT

 

[Raghy]

Greetings.

Quite an interesting thread.

1. I was a farmer. If the seeds bought from the nursery did not germinate in the expected time, I would have complained about that to the nursery with some choice words; would have replanted with different brand of seeds; kept my fingers crossed. As a farmer I won't wait for a very long time risking loosing a crop. Well, that's me anyway.

2. I am a social drinker when I get invited to parties. I only drink beer in such parties ( I hate beer. That is not my drink of choice at all). Usually I would just carry one beer all through the evening with only consuming half bottle.

3. At home when there is no party, I really drink my brand of choice until I get drunk ( that's once in 7 to 10 days). By the time I finish listening to songs or finish watching any movie, I would be sober. I don't recommend alcohol to anyone though. It is like catching tiger by the tail. So far I have my tiger tamed.

4. For a male, usually alcohol may not help very much towards his potency since alcohol tends to relax all muscles. ( but it also increases BP which helps. So very little quantity may help!). For girls, relaxation of muscle is good. So, a bit more in quantity than the male would actually help.

5. I don't consider consumption of alcohol as a sin or something terrible. But if a person lacks self control, such persons should not go near alcohol.

6. Alcohol doesn't usually cause aggressive behaviour.

Like I said before, I am not recommending alcohol to anyone. anyone wishes to catch tiger by the tail may do it at their own risk.

Cheers!