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Respect women’s autonomy

ekaputra

Member
The Shastras were probably drafted some 3000 years back and served as the Constitutional Laws of those times. It was an age when women were only homemakers. This was true of all countries/ kingdoms/ societies not just Hindu societies where people were guided/ misguided by religious Shastras. There has been a lot of change in the last 200-300 years (and especially in the last 100 years) and it is foolish to apply ancient Dharmic laws in every situation today. It is one thing to boldly abandon evil practices handed down in the name of Shastras but entirely different and even imbecile to judge 3000 year old laws by present day values.

Some 70+ years back, a relatively unorthodox Iyer (my father's very close friend) from a very orthodox Iyer family was betrothed to a woman selected and approved by his parents (purely arranged marriage). At the wedding, the bride's people failed to perform as promised - it turned out that her brother and sister-in-law (Anna and Manni) were the culprits - they had offered to take responsibility and embezzled most of the money. The groom's parents were jeered by their relatives for allowing themselves to be conned and they wanted to cancel the wedding. The groom was stubborn and insisted on going through the marriage for which he was ridiculed by his parents, brothers and even sisters-in-law (Mannimaargal - shamefully, even they could not empathize with the bride) and other relatives and even labelled as a "Pondatti Dasan". Due to this ostracism (in the family and family-friends' circle), they faced a great deal of hardship including monetary problems but, thanks to their strength and courage, they raised their children well who in turn did much better than almost all their cousins. If such a thing (trying to stop the wedding) happened today it is the groom's parents who would become social outcasts. How values have changed in just 70 years!

And are traditional values being misused only by men? Is the traditonal and indeed venerable concept of "Mata, Pita, Guru" not being wantonly misinterpreted and misused by mothers to force sons to acquiesce at "Maamiyaar Kodumai"?
 
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prasad1

Well-known member
Well written post Ekaputraji.

Manusmriti was composed roughly around 200 CE (Common Era). We know this because it refers to Saka (North West tribes) and Cheen (China) who established contact with India around this time. It also refers to gold coins which, as per archaeological evidence, were first used around this period.
 

usaiyer

Member
#40 why women were banned from reciting Gayatri mantra?
In Dharma-sastra ,there is more responsibility for men and women get due respect.Because she is not given the sacred thread.a woman is not given gayatri.(Swami Dayananda Saraswati)
At the time of marriage,the man gets one more sacred thread to wear which is of his wife.This means that with the permission of wife only the husband can start the the homa or ritual and the wife can prepare the naivedya ,the food offering at the ritual.Ref: 'Prayer guide' by Swamiji,pp65,
 

Janaki Jambunathan

Well-known member
Ritual of fasting for the longevity of the husband is prescribed (காரடையான் நோம்பு in south Karva Chauth in the north) but the longevity of wife is no concern of husband? Well widower can again get a wife to pray for his longevity! Fasting for husband's longevity is women's duty - obviously men have no such spouse duty.!
 
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prasad1

Well-known member
#40 why women were banned from reciting Gayatri mantra?
In Dharma-sastra ,there is more responsibility for men and women get due respect.Because she is not given the sacred thread.a woman is not given gayatri.(Swami Dayananda Saraswati)
At the time of marriage,the man gets one more sacred thread to wear which is of his wife.This means that with the permission of wife only the husband can start the the homa or ritual and the wife can prepare the naivedya ,the food offering at the ritual.Ref: 'Prayer guide' by Swamiji,pp65,
If that wife does not agree or unable to do his bidding, he can find another wife.

1. “Swabhav ev narinam …..” – 2/213. It is the nature of women to seduce men in this world; for that reason the wise are never unguarded in the company of females.

2. “Avidvam samlam………..” – 2/214. Women, true to their class character, are capable of leading astray men in this world, not only a fool but even a learned and wise man. Both become slaves of desire.

3. No sacrifice, no vow, no fast must be performed by women apart (from their husbands); if a wife obeys her husband, she will for that (reason alone) be exalted in heaven.

4. “Pita rakhshati……….” – 9/3. Since women are not capable of living independently, she is to be kept under the custody of her father as child, under her husband as a woman and under her son as widow.

5. “Na asti strinam………” – 9/18. While performing namkarm and jatkarm, Vedic mantras are not to be recited by women, because women are lacking in strength and knowledge of Vedic texts. Women are impure and represent falsehood.

6. “Vandyashtamay…….” – 9/80. A barren wife may be superseded in the 8th year; she whose children die may be superseded in the 10th year and she who bears only daughters may be superseded in the 11th year; but she who is quarrelsome may be superseded without delay.


I think Manusmrity and its kind should be kept in a museum.
 

krish44

Well-known member
Women of this generation can get autonomy only by keeping the TB seniors in an old age home and banishing shastras and manusmriti from homes.
No old TB is going to ever respect womens autonomy. voluntarily .It is a dream for women
 

Janaki Jambunathan

Well-known member
Women of this generation can get autonomy only by keeping the TB seniors in an old age home and banishing shastras and manusmriti from homes.

Response:

I keep a safe social distance - will not cross the Lakshman Rekha ( no pun intended - my d in l s name Rekha!) So my d in ls don't have to look for senior citizen home for me for her autonomy! Buy will alway give her my support


No old TB is going to ever respect womens autonomy. voluntarily .It is a dream for women

Response:

Varalakshmi viratham on Friday . My d in l suggested that we can celebrate with 2 Kalasams in her flat. I suggested that she should do her pooja independently - I respect her autonomy in every activity!

Click on expand to.see the message
 
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krish44

Well-known member
You are an exceptional senior citizen.
As a matter of curiousity what is kept in kalasam
Sorry I am very ignorant about this. What is the vratham for?. Do you go hungry for the whole day?
 

Janaki Jambunathan

Well-known member
You can see my Varalakshmi - file photo -
IMG_20200728_185335_BURST1.jpg


அம்மன் முகம்

அம்மன் on கலசம் with அலங்காரம்



IMG_1678.JPG

This pooja was not thrust on me - My mother used to do it. Usually M in L initiate the D in L - புக்காத்து வழக்கம் carried on by மாட்டுபொண் ! In my case it is not புக்காத்து Tradition - In fact I broke the tradition took to my பொறந்தாத்து tradition Viratham is not my புக்காத்து வழக்கம் My mother initiated me into this & my மாமியார் approved with no hesitation This pooja is performed by சுமங்கலிகள் for சுபிஷ்ஷம் !

Kalasam is small metallic சொம்பு (வெங்கலம் or silver - mine silver) -மஞ்ஜள் coated குடுமி தேங்காய் fixed in the சொம்பு - குடுமி upwards - on to this அம்மன் முகம் fixed & alangaram done which takes about 6 hrs for me I start at about 8 PM on Thursday after பலகாரம் may go till mid night ! பட்ணி till the pooja is over on Friday!

Both my DIL do this pooja Traditionally DIL parents give them சொம்பு & அம்மன் முகம் (silver) as ஆடி சீர் & you star the viratham immediately after marraige My 2DIL is glued to traditional - asked me to initiate her to this விரதம் immediately after marriage . My 1DIL had no idea & I never suggest this to her - When she heard from DIL2 about her visit to Madurai for initiation, she (1DIL) phoned me up said ,she also wants take up this - I said fine Please come.

Again Break away from the tradition "immediately after Marriage" - by me. She was in US then!


The pooja is performed Donning மடிசார் - 1DIL landed in Madurai with out her 9 yds Koorai! She was terribly embarrassed and was rushing to Haji Moosa to buy one - Take it easy you can do the pooja in 6 yds saree I encouragingly ! ( Tradition broken again) After this embarrassment she is religiously in 9yds in all family function (Religious)

வைஸ்யா do this - why not வைஷ்ணவா? My ஐயங்கார் friends daughter used help me - packing பிரசாதம் - தாம்பூலம் குடுக்கறது till she left Madurai after her marriage . They can also do this - Jihadis may issue Fatwa!
 

prasad1

Well-known member
Varamahalakshmi Vrata is performed by a married woman (sumangalis) for the well being of all their family members, especially the husband, to get progeny etc. It is believed that worshipping the Goddess Varalakshmi on this day is equivalent to worshipping Ashtalakshmi– the eight goddesses of Wealth, Earth, Wisdom, Love, Fame, Peace, Contentment, and Strength.

Yes it is not practiced among Iyyangars. Other vaisnavites do observe it.
 

prasad1

Well-known member
All Iyengars are vaishnavites, they may be from Andhra, Tamil Nadu or Karnataka.
But not all vaishnavites are Iyyangars.
There are Iyar Vaishnavites as well.

Vaishnavism comprises many sects and groups that differ in their interpretation of the relationship between the individual and God. The Srivaishnava sect, for example, emphasizes the doctrine of vishishtadvaita (“qualified nondualism”) of Ramanuja, according to which, although the differentiated phenomenal world is illusory (maya), it is nevertheless the medium through which devotees may gain access to God. Another group professes the dvaita (“dualism”) of the philosopher Madhva, the belief that God and the soul are separate entities and that the soul’s existence is dependent on God. The Pushtimarg sect maintains the shuddhadvaita (“pure nondualism”) doctrine of the theologian Vallabhacharya, which does not declare the phenomenal world to be an illusion. The Gaudiya sect, founded by Chaitanya, teaches achintya-bhedabheda (“inconceivable duality and nonduality”), the belief that the relation between God and the world is beyond the scope of human comprehension.

In addition to these philosophical sects, many other Vaishnava groups are scattered throughout India, often centred in local temples or shrines.
 

krish44

Well-known member
All Iyengars are vaishnavites, they may be from Andhra, Tamil Nadu or Karnataka.
But not all vaishnavites are Iyyangars.
There are Iyar Vaishnavites as well.

Vaishnavism comprises many sects and groups that differ in their interpretation of the relationship between the individual and God. The Srivaishnava sect, for example, emphasizes the doctrine of vishishtadvaita (“qualified nondualism”) of Ramanuja, according to which, although the differentiated phenomenal world is illusory (maya), it is nevertheless the medium through which devotees may gain access to God. Another group professes the dvaita (“dualism”) of the philosopher Madhva, the belief that God and the soul are separate entities and that the soul’s existence is dependent on God. The Pushtimarg sect maintains the shuddhadvaita (“pure nondualism”) doctrine of the theologian Vallabhacharya, which does not declare the phenomenal world to be an illusion. The Gaudiya sect, founded by Chaitanya, teaches achintya-bhedabheda (“inconceivable duality and nonduality”), the belief that the relation between God and the world is beyond the scope of human comprehension.

In addition to these philosophical sects, many other Vaishnava groups are scattered throughout India, often centred in local temples or shrines.
Very informative .Tks
 

krish44

Well-known member
You can see my Varalakshmi - file photo -
View attachment 10049

அம்மன் முகம்

அம்மன் on கலசம் with அலங்காரம்



View attachment 10050
This pooja was not thrust on me - My mother used to do it. Usually M in L initiate the D in L - புக்காத்து வழக்கம் carried on by மாட்டுபொண் ! In my case it is not புக்காத்து Tradition - In fact I broke the tradition took to my பொறந்தாத்து tradition Viratham is not my புக்காத்து வழக்கம் My mother initiated me into this & my மாமியார் approved with no hesitation This pooja is performed by சுமங்கலிகள் for சுபிஷ்ஷம் !

Kalasam is small metallic சொம்பு (வெங்கலம் or silver - mine silver) -மஞ்ஜள் coated குடுமி தேங்காய் fixed in the சொம்பு - குடுமி upwards - on to this அம்மன் முகம் fixed & alangaram done which takes about 6 hrs for me I start at about 8 PM on Thursday after பலகாரம் may go till mid night ! பட்ணி till the pooja is over on Friday!

Both my DIL do this pooja Traditionally DIL parents give them சொம்பு & அம்மன் முகம் (silver) as ஆடி சீர் & you star the viratham immediately after marraige My 2DIL is glued to traditional - asked me to initiate her to this விரதம் immediately after marriage . My 1DIL had no idea & I never suggest this to her - When she heard from DIL2 about her visit to Madurai for initiation, she (1DIL) phoned me up said ,she also wants take up this - I said fine Please come.

Again Break away from the tradition "immediately after Marriage" - by me. She was in US then!


The pooja is performed Donning மடிசார் - 1DIL landed in Madurai with out her 9 yds Koorai! She was terribly embarrassed and was rushing to Haji Moosa to buy one - Take it easy you can do the pooja in 6 yds saree I encouragingly ! ( Tradition broken again) After this embarrassment she is religiously in 9yds in all family function (Religious)

வைஸ்யா do this - why not வைஷ்ணவா? My ஐயங்கார் friends daughter used help me - packing பிரசாதம் - தாம்பூலம் குடுக்கறது till she left Madurai after her marriage . They can also do this - Jihadis may issue Fatwa!
Very interesting post.
 

Janaki Jambunathan

Well-known member
Feel Varalakshmi Fever not Corona

No வெள்ளி பூஜை சாமான் All in bank lockers - New saree for Varalakshmi arriving on 30th - Confirmed delivery by Pothy's - Raman Sastri - Madurai - also confirmed to conduct pooja by video conference. Flowers வாழ கன்னு மஞ்ஜ கெத்து all taken care of - No தாழம்பூ - யானை விலை குதிரை விலை - தாழாம்பூர்ல பூஜை தாழம்பூ இல்ல. (DLF location - Thazambur)

Blue print for making கலசம் started !

Teaser photo

IMG_20200729_120145.jpg
 

Janaki Jambunathan

Well-known member
Varalakshmi raavee ma intike! - women do this viratham to bring Varalakshmi home and suggestions to send her out elsewhere looks strange specially when that comes from the owner of the home (thread) - Respect women's autonomy!
 

prasad1

Well-known member
Varalakshmi raavee ma intike! - women do this viratham to bring Varalakshmi home and suggestions to send her out elsewhere looks strange specially when that comes from the owner of the home (thread) - Respect women's autonomy!
No, I am not asking to go elsewhere.
I think it gets hidden in the wrong thread, and in the wrong section.
I thought by having its own thread there will be more readership. This heading suggests a non-conformist topic.
 

Janaki Jambunathan

Well-known member
V.V. is basically religious. But I am nonconformist & feel it is more than that - A challenge to my artistic skills & creativity - My V was with me when I broke convention earlier - you saw it in my earlier post

Assembling Varalakshmi is no simple
Lego block skills. My V should visit my home as I See her in my mind - I have to give her the shape accordingly - really a challenge to my skills!

On the pooja day I prepare minimum 5 நிவேதனம் to expected good standards of taste & quality with no possibility of proof the pudding test before offering to Varalakshmi!

Toouch wood So far I had faced the challenge to my skills successfully

The nonconformist team (I & Varalakshmi) confirm to stay in nonconformist thread - Respect women's autonomy!

Varalakshmi is there in Conformist thread as well! She cannot be caged in one thread!

 
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krish44

Well-known member
While my children are vaishnavite brahmins my sambandhis are iyers.I have left it to them to perform whatever rituals / pujas they believe in.
None I suppose kept any vrat . I was discreet enough not to enquire since I believe in hands off attitude on anything religious .
All of them are busy with their career with no interest remotely connected with vratham.However thay are foodies waiting for home made pizzas and A2B swaeets
 
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