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Respect women’s autonomy

prasad1

Well-known member
The Gauhati high court’s ruling, granting a man a divorce on the grounds that his wife refused to wear a shaka (conch shell bangle) and sindoor as per Hindu custom amounted to her refusal to accept the marriage, is a huge step backwards for women’s rights.

By wearing these accoutrements of matrimony, a woman is expected to show her devotion to her husband while nothing of this sort is expected from the man. In fact, the sindoor takes on a significant role in a marriage that neither a single woman nor a widow can wear it. It is seen as a mark of respectability.

In the Gauhati case, the court went further and ruled that the woman in question was guilty of cruelty under the Maintenance and Welfare of Parents and Senior Citizens Act 2007, as she did not want to live with her in-laws, and, hence, tried to prevent her husband from looking after his aged mother. The ruling suggests an inbuilt bias in the judiciary, particularly at the lower levels. It deprives the woman of her freedom of choice as to whether she wishes to wear symbols of marriage.

This sort of misogyny is insidious as it tends to appropriate and control the woman’s wishes. The ruling – like many others in the past – deny the woman autonomy, and makes her subservient to a pre-defined patriarchal notion of what a “good” wife ought to be like. At a time when more women are entering the workforce and becoming economically independent, it seems misplaced to constrain their behaviour, whether it is within a marriage or otherwise.


Unfortunately, many of India’s popular television serials and films also glorify the importance of marriage symbols such as sindoor and bangles. A marriage is a union of equals and should not be contingent on one partner being viewed as being subservient to the other. Equality under the law should be upheld in letter and spirit and the Gauhati ruling seems to go against this.

 

Janaki Jambunathan

Well-known member
Not Wearing Mangalsutra And Sindoor Cannot Be Reasons For Divorce: Bombay High Court

Though the Bombay high court did not grant the husband divorce from his wife, does this actually benefit her? She has to continue living her life with a despicable man who tries to control her consent.

Viewed with this angle Gauhati HC judgement has liberated her from her despicable spouse!

https://thelogicalindian.com/news/mangalsutra-sindoor-divorce/
 
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prasad1

Well-known member
Not Wearing Mangalsutra And Sindoor Cannot Be Reasons For Divorce: Bombay High Court

Though the Bombay high court did not grant the husband divorce from his wife, does this actually benefit her? She has to continue living her life with a despicable man who tries to control her consent.

Viewed with this angle Gauhati HC judgement has liberated her from her despicable spouse!

https://thelogicalindian.com/news/mangalsutra-sindoor-divorce/
Bombay High Court was right for the wrong reason.
Gauhati HC is wrong for all reasons. The women will not get any support now.
 

renuka

Well-known member
Its simple..before marriage all these should be settled.

Just dont marry a man who will expect you to wear all the signs and symbols of marriage if you do not wish to wear it 24/7.

When a man comes to ask for a bride(if its an arranged marriage), you can observe his family and see how they are.
If they look way to dependent on external symbols then just say No and wait for a man who would seem flexible and not too dependent on externality.

Actually truly "spiritual" people are not too worried about "external".
 

prasad1

Well-known member
Its simple..before marriage all these should be settled.

Just dont marry a man who will expect you to wear all the signs and symbols of marriage if you do not wish to wear it 24/7.

When a man comes to ask for a bride(if its an arranged marriage), you can observe his family and see how they are.
If they look way to dependent on external symbols then just say No and wait for a man who would seem flexible and not too dependent on externality.

Actually truly "spiritual" people are not too worried about "external".
A good point. I am not talking about spiritual, it is the social norm.
In metro cities, in India, it is rare to find an Indian woman in Indian clothes. They wear jeans and a T-shirt, no one is wearing a bindi or any "married" women symbols.

People wear jewelry or Traditional Indian clothes for an Indian ceremony. That should be an accepted norm.
Even married women going to a westernized gala event do not wear Indian garments.
I have seen a new bride coming to town from the village, shuns her Indian dress and marriage symbols, and converts to jeans and t-Shirt for convenience and to join her social friends.
The judges should be forced to undergo sensitivity training before they comment on social behavior.

1593776870272.png


Is she Married? Who cares, She is proudly defending the coutry and that is what matters.
 

prasad1

Well-known member
With sindoor and suhagan (married woman whose husband is still alive) as part of their titles and the heroines cry with happiness whenever the hero fills their hair with red powder and in some cases, even blood (!). In a parodic clip from the film Om Shanti Om, which has since become iconic, the heroine Shantipriya, extols the virtues of vermillion: it is God’s blessing, a married woman’s crowning glory, everything a woman has always dreamt of.



Women who play villains in TV soaps and Bollywood films are often marked by their refusal to conform to the saintly sindoor sisterhood of long suffering, self-sacrificing sanskari Hindu naari who give it all up for their husbands and their families.

But this is not just a ridiculous movie trope. In rural Jharkhand Rita Devi has developed skin infections from applying sindoor in her parting but she feels she cannot stop. “If I didn’t apply sindoor, it would feel strange, I would feel like a widow. It wouldn’t feel good. In earlier times it was believed that sindoor must be applied for the husband’s long life. I also fear my husband may suffer harm if I don’t apply sindoor.” Similarly, Amrita, who works for Video Volunteers and never wears sindoor, occasionally applies it just to get away from tiresome questioning. “I wore it at my cousin’s wedding just to stop people from making an issue out of it,” she says. There’s clearly immense societal pressure on women to conform to the role of the ‘good wife’ not just in action but also in appearance.

The implication is obviously that a married woman is ‘owned’, property of another man. Her sindoor, red bangles, mangalsutra all indicate this status. Men obviously do not need these markers to indicate their marital status because they cannot be owned – they don’t change their surnames or residences post marriage either. A woman is groomed to become a wife, nothing else and widowhood is the worst fate that could befall women. Not only sindoor, a whole host of rituals are designed to pray for the husband’s long life. Needless to say while women fast and pray to lengthen their spouses’ lives, no such rituals are performed for them.



Patriarchy is a many-headed beast that coerces women to internalise misogynist symbols, compels them to and makes them feel good about being virtuous. It also marks those who dare to question such mores as ‘bad girls’. It’s time we stopped rationalising and upholding discrimination through official policies, private practices and fake science.

 

usaiyer

Member
Looks like we have to really understand and interpret the concept of marriage as a social phenomenon
in the 21 st century.because as I feel the individual freedom and space for individual privacy of the partners getting more and more important with present day womenfolk getting more educated and
economically independent .
The days of the Dharmapatni typified in TVserials or in movies ,i doubt it will survive any more?.
The days of male chauvinism may also go away along with this if you will consider the male female ratio
in the population.Also we have media influence ,western cultural impact coming from globalization.
The judge will only see the point to allow or disallow the request.esp.if the woman feels strongly
about separation,however flimsy may be the reasons stated.You cannot as judge dictate to woman
that she is wrong and willy nilly the marriage sanctity is to be protected.
 

renuka

Well-known member
Mostly 'traditional" men are insecure.
They actually fear death so much that they feel a red powder and a mangal sutra holds their lives ransom.

But a man wears no signs and symbols of marriage yet a woman doesnt fear death.
 

sravna

Well-known member
Mostly 'traditional" men are insecure.
They actually fear death so much that they feel a red powder and a mangal sutra holds their lives ransom.

But a man wears no signs and symbols of marriage yet a woman doesnt fear death.
Men do not have to do what women do and vice versa. They are different. The best form of equality is complementarity
 

usaiyer

Member
It seems the women of today have deviated from the traditional societal role and the way of life envisaged for them in vedas and other scriptures in the name of a false sense of liberation or so called feminist freedom.In fact a true housewife or now called home maker enjoys all the freedom without raising her
voice in a family environment..I have a feeling that the family norms have somewhere slipped with the pampering of the girl child by the parents.
Also this is Kaliyuga,a tower of Babel may be in the offing.
 

prasad1

Well-known member
It seems the women of today have deviated from the traditional societal role and the way of life envisaged for them in vedas and other scriptures in the name of a false sense of liberation or so called feminist freedom.In fact a true housewife or now called home maker enjoys all the freedom without raising her
voice in a family environment..I have a feeling that the family norms have somewhere slipped with the pampering of the girl child by the parents.
Also this is Kaliyuga,a tower of Babel may be in the offing.
Do men Live life as described in Vedas?
Do we have indoor plumbing? Was it there during Vedas?
Do we not travel by Car, Train, Ship, and Plane? Was it as described in Vedas?

Society changes, practices changes that is life, if you stay in yesteryears you will remain stuck and miserable.

World and society go on with or without your participation.

The world has witnessed more drastic changes and still continues on.

The days when men used to dictate how women must live their life is gone forever (except in the Taliban or Muslim world). Let us accept and celebrate our daughters.
 

usaiyer

Member
Do men Live life as described in Vedas?
Do we have indoor plumbing? Was it there during Vedas?
Do we not travel by Car, Train, Ship, and Plane? Was it as described in Vedas?

Society changes, practices changes that is life, if you stay in yesteryears you will remain stuck and miserable.

World and society go on with or without your participation.

The world has witnessed more drastic changes and still continues on.

The days when men used to dictate how women must live their life is gone forever (except in the Taliban or Muslim world). Let us accept and celebrate our daughters.
Fully Agree,
With the changing times ,the rules of the game are also changing,We are probably moving in the direction of matriarchy. Public stress and awareness of the importance of woman's education
may speed up the process.We may have more woman judges sensitive to women's feelings in
such case laws.
As pointed out by Renukaji,marriage may turn out to an contractual exercise terms being mutually
settled thru communication between partners.But its susustainability and social good would still be
questions with no clear cut answers and we may see as many no.of judgements as how each judge may view the situation.
 

kamu

Member
Do men Live life as described in Vedas?
Do we have indoor plumbing? Was it there during Vedas?
Do we not travel by Car, Train, Ship, and Plane? Was it as described in Vedas?

Society changes, practices changes that is life, if you stay in yesteryears you will remain stuck and miserable.

World and society go on with or without your participation.

The world has witnessed more drastic changes and still continues on.

The days when men used to dictate how women must live their life is gone forever (except in the Taliban or Muslim world). Let us accept and celebrate our daughters.
rightly said - do all men wear the shikha ? Don't all men wear western clothes ? How many do Sandhya vandanam ? [ or atleast gayatri japam ] How many wear the vibhuti / namam as a regular feature ? Its rather unfortunate to target women for everything - let the man wear a pancha kaccham and go to his corporate meetings before finding fault with his wife not wearing the sindoor / bangles , etc.
Its not only the brahmin who has the yagnopavidham - the other castes too have it - how many wear it ?
times have changed ; men have to accept this and go along .
I totally agree that our customs and rituals have to be kept alive - I am not one to live a westernised life , but one should have a proper perspective ; it matters more to teach your kids the right values of respect to elders, chanting the Gayatri, [ all can do it - its not a man's prerogative !] ,learning and reciting slokas, being truthful and honest than nitpicking about mere appearances
 

kannan

Member
Sanatana Dharma or the Dharma Sastras have been changing from time to time. In fact life style changes occur first in the brahmin community and others usually follow. But it is worth knowing the principles of the sustainable wed lock as per the Dharma Sastras and try to preserve the values of good relationship between husband and wife. For example, the husband wears an additional set of poonal for the sake of his wife. The mangal sutra and the mantras chanted during the marriage ceremony do have valuable significance.
 

Janaki Jambunathan

Well-known member
Sanatana Dharma or the Dharma Sastras have been changing from time to time. In
fact life style changes occur first in the brahmin community and others usually follow. But it is worth knowing the principles of the sustainable wed lock as per the Dharma Sastras and try to preserve the values of good relationship between husband and wife. For example, the husband wears an additional set of poonal for the sake of his wife. The mangal sutra and the mantras chanted during the marriage ceremony do have valuable significance.
There is a change over from மாட்டு வண்டி to Maruthi -

In this change over wearing seat belt across chest has valuable significance than an additional set of poonal !

Why not try look for answer to emerging issues in the light of Dharma Sastras instead of resorting to obscurantism and.keep silent on the issues like single parents their emotional needs financial security etc?
 

kannan

Member
Reference to dharma sastras is made hoping that the forum, organised by tamil brahmins who have a bondage with the same, may be interested to discuss subjects of social issues around the fulcrum of Dharma. It may help us know where we stand with regards to the time tested teachings we beleive in common.
The mention of dharma sastras and the opposition to it serves atleast to know that there are members who like more of sensational debates. I wish them all the best.
With regards to the additional set of poonal, I am sure it will not foul with the seat belt if they are treated / handled seperately. I only hope the seat belts do not break the poonals.
However, the efforts to stimulate the conflicts are highly appreciated.
 
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Janaki Jambunathan

Well-known member
Reference to dharma sastras is made hoping that the forum, organised by tamil brahmins who have a bondage with the same, may be interested to discuss subjects of social issues around the fulcrum of Dharma. (#19)

Exactly for the same reason social issue concerning Aaj ki nari was posted for discussions

Why not try look for answer to emerging issues in the light of Dharma Sastras instead of resorting to obscurantism and.keep silent on the issues like single parents their emotional needs financial security etc?(#18)

This discussion - compulsion of changing times and emerging issues - and not to shy away as sensation !

Cooled head looses 'Cool' !
 
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