Request for help by Srividhya

[prpsarathy]

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practice before preach

hi, At this juncture, my annual commitment for the studies of some unknown brahmin guys is around 43K INR per annum and 80k INR p.a for blood relatives of mine who are not well. price probably i paid is to go by a small car rather than a 4X4 which is norm in the place where i stay and work at my level. I give alteast 25k to 50k p.a as donation to orphanage I donot preach before i practice. But this forum has more preacher than practicers, that is the reason even the souls which were interested in doing something has quietly left this discussion site itself.

 

[Seshadri Subramaniam]

Good to know about prpsarathy's noble work... but why should the noble hide in obscurity?

 

[kunjuppu]

i concur with prp.

sesh, if you go through several postings re common good of the community, there are more folks with ideas than coming up with volunteering to do something.

the easiest commodity to give is money. the most difficult is time.

what i have found is that time and distance, as the biggest factors to any organized community social work.

hence, my own path, has been similar to that of prp. do on a micro scale what you are able, and ensure that 100% of it goes to whatever i feel is appropriate.

i shudder even to call it charity. it is not. it is what i owe. i will keep on owing. but that is besides the point.

i hate to point out, but you have come up with some ideas, which are not unique. what piques me is that (and i may be wrong here) that you feel that you are somewhat 'disappointed' by the apathy.

in order to do justice, read through the posts. including one about starting an institute in karnataka, where tamil brahmins, are considered a linquistic minority and are ensure minority status re starting an education institution.

in the absence of leadership, i feel the best alternative is to quietly do our mite to give a helping hand and ensure atleast one step towards an upward mobility for our less fortunate brethren.

i personally think, that there are far too many reasons of a complex nature, for us as tamil brahmins to get together to form community institutions. but then that is another separate thread....

 

[Seshadri Subramaniam]

kunjuppu, I agree with you...

And yes, my thoughts are not unique and original... they are probably universal queries of a brahmin who thinks for the society... (eek... have framed myself...)

Yes, am disappointed... but I can get over it...

I do not want to be a part of a forum which engages in just "philosophical talks" (or THINNAI PECHU) without doing something JOINTLY for a common cause... probably that is why I work best in reclusion... which would again agree with your view...

Maybe am in the wrong forum...

 

[prpsarathy]

Hi,

I read somewhere that if the road apposite to every body's house is maintained properly then we do not require scavengers. so i am just trying to see what i can do to the best of my ability and limitation.

I saw on presentation in the internet. Finally it is between an individual and the god [ allah / christ / krishna ]. All have told them to help others. I do my two bits till i am earning well. I would not know whether my fortunes also will be same. Hope and pray that god give much to assist others.

My humble request to all our brother and sisters is to have a simple living and nature to share our fortunes with others. Famous english wording "IF MY OFFSPRING ARE INTELLIGENT THEY DONOT REQUIRE MY MONEY, IF THEY ARE IDIOTS, IT IS NOT GOING TO HELP THEM AND THEY WILL LOOSE". Either way your offspring do not require your wealth.

What is required is to leave good karmas in favour of our offspring. Unfortunately brahmins have become high insecured of wealth and greed to leave all for their children loosing the basic fabric that punyas / goog deeds are more powerfull than money. It is my own experience. I owe my limited wealth which i possess as the blessing and punyas of my parents from a humble background.

I have seen in the forty years, well off families becoming poor and poor become well off. It is the question of our time and our deeds to reap. If we sow good deeds, i am sure that it will help generations. One prahalda in the demon race could save the lives of all offspring in his lineage that is the power of good deeds and unfortunately we read and we donot believe the same.

 

[prpsarathy]

kunjuppu Online
Senior Member


I accept your words. time is more difficult than giving money. Unfortunately even that people are very miserly. Pls see mumbaihangout. guys are all out ot help each other. We tend seclude and have tinai pachu.

 

[Seshadri Subramaniam]

"the easiest commodity to give is money. the most difficult is time."

Was just reflecting on this... and I personally am not it agreement with the same...

Just collecting "sandha" for a cause is a herculean effort... money is not that much a detached item for a brahmin (maybe even for the other)

 

[prpsarathy]

Rich is relative

Seshadri,

extra MOney is relative. If i earn a crore and spend a 1.1 crores, then i donot have money. If i earn 10k inr and spend 9k i have something to spare.

Most important part is that all of us [ including myself ] is sucked into the materialism of the english product company.

you buy one in installment beforeyou complete the next version is available so on so forth it goes.

My spouse use to ask before every purchase to me and my duaghter who are impulsive buyers
Do you really need it
Do you have space to keep it
Do you have time to use it

So what is required is that we keep our needs less so that we have money to spare for other. I am not telling this as sermon but a reinforcing statement for myself and share with others.

I have a old grandfather. I have money to give him but i find in our house there is no body to spend time with him. All [ male and female ] members are working. All children are studying and there is no time for him.

What i could spare is money as i donot stay in india. So if u ask me time is scarce that than money many a times.

 

[Seshadri Subramaniam]

sarathy, my reflection is on the willingness of the mind to part with money for the welfare of the community or society.... It does not deal with the economics of treasury management (though it does play a part)

My intention is not to highlight that money is more precious over time... it is what people are willing to part more...what is free is always cheap!

Again, it depends on individual perception.

On a separate note, if you ask me, I would say that both money and time are precious - they have their phases... thatz about it...

 

[pannvalan]

I know how difficult it is to administer a centralised fund. Much of the fund is spent on avoidable expenses like rent, electricity, telephones, postage, travel/conveyance, unless people come forward to bear these expenses themselves. But, certainly that is going to be difficult and hence impractical. Moreover, the struggles for positions and the politics and internecine quarrels that follow can not be imagined or envisaged at the beginning.

What I suggest is -

(a) Let some noble one amongst us, preferably a retired person or anyone who has
ample time to spare, must come forward to act as a co-ordinator, without
expecting anything in return for the services rendered.
(b) Let some members - need not be the same group always - offer to
inquire/investigate into the facts of each case, before actually extending help/assistance
(c) Let some persons do the follow up action.
(d) Now, call upon our members to sponsor either in part or full each deserving case,
especially for education, medical and marriage purposes. Thus, each contributing member is tagged on to one or just a few cases.

Let these be the general and broad guidelines. (The only drawback in the system I propose is people who contribute/donate only for the purpose of availing exemption under Income Tax Act, cannot do so)

I wish to know the response of other members.

 

[prpsarathy]

Why not to leverage on income tax benefit

Hi, Let us assume i give 65k today per annum as donation. This is when i earn 100k and pay 35k as tax. By us getting a trust in place somebody can get 50% income reduction for the same donation. So he can give more. Todays scenario : Income 100k [ only amount allocated for donation ] Tax 35k Savings 67k Assuming if the same gets income tax benefits. Income 100.0k A Tax deduction 50.0k B Taxable income 50.0k C = A - B taxb payabLe 17.5 k D=50% OF C Income after tax 32.5 k E=C-D money that can be give for donation 83.5 F=B+E So the person who has intention to donate can extract this Rs. 16.5 government and give it to public cause. i am aware of this. But to get this exemption, you require crease the palm in trust commissioner office and income tax office. But still it is worth for the benefit. Take my case, i give approximately every year 100k as donation, if i get income tax benefit, i can make this 116.5k to assist people.

 

[pannvalan]

Dear Sarathy,

I appreciate the benevolent attitude of yours and this may not be found in the same magnitude in every one of us. Reasons are many.

Yes, I agree that exemption under Sec 80-G of I.T. Act, 1961 encourages persons in the high income groups to donate. But, unfortunately- please excuse me to say this- there are
very few people in HIG who come forward to donate liberally for a noble cause. If they are on an 'atonement mission' (Dosha parihaaram), they may perhaps spend more.

I am also aware of many trusts - even well reputed ones in this country - who accept
Rs.1000 from you and readily give official receipt for Rs.2000, so that the donor gets
100% I. T. exemption and the donee is enabled to convert the black money into white.

You have not answered my doubts and apprehensions with regard to administration of the trust and the accompanying road blocks and politics.

As for registering a Trust and getting I. T. exemption status, it is not all that difficult, except for the first time. We can even rope in some I. T. officers of philanthropic
nature to the donors' list and utilise their services. What do you say?

Finally, let the voice of the majority prevail.

 

[Seshadri Subramaniam]

Dear Sarathy,

I appreciate the benevolent attitude of yours and this may not be found in the same magnitude in every one of us. Reasons are many.

Yes, I agree that exemption under Sec 80-G of I.T. Act, 1961 encourages persons in the high income groups. But, unfortunately- please excuse me to say this- there are
very few people in HIG who come forward to donate liberally for a noble cause. If they are on an 'atonement mission' (Dosha parihaaram), they may perhaps spend more.

I am also aware of many trusts - even well reputed ones in this country - who accept
Rs.1000 from you and readily give official receipt for Rs.2000, so that the donor gets
100% I. T. exemption and the donee is enabled to convert the black money into white.

You have not answered my doubts and apprehensions with regard to administration of the trust and the accompanying road blocks and politics.

As for registering a Trust and getting I. T. exemption status, it is not all that difficult, except for the first time. We can even rope in some I. T. officers of philanthropic
nature to the donors' list and utilise their services. What do you say?

Finally, let the voice of the majority prevail.

Shri Pannvalan

Though I cannot categorize myself as a HIG, I think you have my answer to a centralized structure from my other posts...

But am apprehensive about the idea of retired persons acting as co-ordinators as it could also convey several implicit meanings - one of which could be that this trust is only for retired persons' pastime...

The trust to be formed should have full time committees (of active and paid ones)... I feel that this would be more professional and effective than having somebody to do it for charity...

 

[pannvalan]

Sorry, Seshadri. I did not intend to convey that an organised entity is only to be managed by retired people. What I wanted to convey was it is they who have ample time at their disposal and they will also derive some satisfaction and sense of accomplishment, if they are given responsibilities, even after superannuation. The rationale is nobody have time to spare, when it is needed very urgently. I know many elderly people who are still agile and with their long, varied experience in their area they served in the past. They can be of great use to any organisation. But, sadly their knowledge and skills are not recognised or they themselves do not know how to channelise their energy and knowledge, after their retirement. If they are accorded just recognition, they are ready to extend their services for the benefit of the society and do not expect anything in return. I am talking about many, but not all.

Perhaps in future, we may have to employ full-time professionals to manage the proposed trust. I also never said that many of us who are still active in our respective fields, can not render part-time services.

Please understand the points I raised, in the proper perspective.

 

[Seshadri Subramaniam]

pannvalan, I did not intend to convey an expression of dissatisfaction or sarcasm in my earlier post. It is just my reflection...

Rest assured that your post is understood in the implied sense; however, my call would be to run it like an organization... nobody has time... yes, nobody has time for charity... but time can be bought and that is what I am hinting at...

If any active mind can be put to good use, age is never a problem.

 

[prpsarathy]

Pannvalan

Actually i am planning to start a site of my own for donor and donees to meet. Donees can put their request and donee can review and make the payment throught the trust to get the benefit of income tax. [ legally allowed ]. Facility for the donee to pay the fees or pay the interest directly to the educational institution or bank respectively

I donot want to categories HNI or middle class. I always feel all type of people are there in every strata of life. It is not that easy to get this exemption. This is one is the most abused section of income tax.

i also feel we must involve youngster with the drive to serve. Www.sevalaya.org is one which is done by an youngster murali with the intention of serving poor irrespectivce of caste and creed.

I would prefer such an young person who could do this and also a person who is in india to verify the donee details

 

[prpsarathy]

Admin and firefix tried forthe trust. I was positive that i can atleast route my donation through this and also leverage the tax and pass it on to needy. But no idea of what happened subsequently

 

[whisper]

hi, At this juncture, my annual commitment for the studies of some unknown brahmin guys is around 43K INR per annum and 80k INR p.a for blood relatives of mine who are not well. price probably i paid is to go by a small car rather than a 4X4 which is norm in the place where i stay and work at my level. I give alteast 25k to 50k p.a as donation to orphanage I donot preach before i practice. But this forum has more preacher than practicers, that is the reason even the souls which were interested in doing something has quietly left this discussion site itself.

Dear friends,
Good what you do. And i pray that god gives more money for you to help poor.
For my part i also dont have a car or bike and i go by bus to office in bangalore. But we also give donation for orphanage also. In that case i can say i donot preach before i practive.
All i ask you is dont give negative quotes if people want to do some other things which you dont like.
And for your kind information we five people start doing it what i told you. Hope and pray god will help us also.

 

[whisper]

Hi,

I read somewhere that if the road apposite to every body's house is maintained properly then we do not require scavengers. so i am just trying to see what i can do to the best of my ability and limitation.

I saw on presentation in the internet. Finally it is between an individual and the god [ allah / christ / krishna ]. All have told them to help others. I do my two bits till i am earning well. I would not know whether my fortunes also will be same. Hope and pray that god give much to assist others.

My humble request to all our brother and sisters is to have a simple living and nature to share our fortunes with others. Famous english wording "IF MY OFFSPRING ARE INTELLIGENT THEY DONOT REQUIRE MY MONEY, IF THEY ARE IDIOTS, IT IS NOT GOING TO HELP THEM AND THEY WILL LOOSE". Either way your offspring do not require your wealth.

What is required is to leave good karmas in favour of our offspring. Unfortunately brahmins have become high insecured of wealth and greed to leave all for their children loosing the basic fabric that punyas / goog deeds are more powerfull than money. It is my own experience. I owe my limited wealth which i possess as the blessing and punyas of my parents from a humble background.

I have seen in the forty years, well off families becoming poor and poor become well off. It is the question of our time and our deeds to reap. If we sow good deeds, i am sure that it will help generations. One prahalda in the demon race could save the lives of all offspring in his lineage that is the power of good deeds and unfortunately we read and we donot believe the same.

Hi friend,
When i told my idea and if you dont like it you can tell i dont like this idea but you give lot off negative quotes.When you told your idea we never give any negative quotes and we wish you the best my friend. And i like to tell that 4 more people joined me.Hope more people joined in this idea.
If some body start doing and you give negative quotes like (Sorry if i am being rude but this is my observation.)
All the people in their life meets people like armchair expert and preacher but they have to overcome this(these type people are in every place,house,caste,religion and country)

First you should love yourself than only you can love family,community,language, religion and country.

Because the prahalda which you quote never told or had any negative
mindset or rude abt his father or others in his life. He believe in god that helped him. Please you can read and believe the same.

 

[whisper]

Admin and firefix tried forthe trust. I was positive that i can atleast route my donation through this and also leverage the tax and pass it on to needy. But no idea of what happened subsequently

Thanks prpsarathy at last you idea abt tamil brahmins trust( this may also a centralize trust and hope no corruption as you give negative quotes to our idea.)

 

[prpsarathy]

First, i have not discused the details of what i do in any forum. Somebody provoked me to say that practice vs. preach. hence i made this statement.

Even if the the trust if started by the admin & firefox, i want the donor to decide the donee rather than trustee deciding the donee. In the current structure that is precisely what is happening and which is leading to major non good practice.

For example, there is an ayodhay mandapam start for the benefit of brahmis and has a kalayan mandapam. But today the kalyaan mandapam is at the ransom of Trustee. No poor brahmin will get it. Now the trustee who are administrator have become more power full than the people's who money they have collected.

i would appreciate our efforts goes in helping people rather than having a debate on simple statement made on non-offensive basis.

 

[whisper]

First, i have not discused the details of what i do in any forum. Somebody provoked me to say that practice vs. preach. hence i made this statement.

Even if the the trust if started by the admin & firefox, i want the donor to decide the donee rather than trustee deciding the donee. In the current structure that is precisely what is happening and which is leading to major non good practice.

For example, there is an ayodhay mandapam start for the benefit of brahmis and has a kalayan mandapam. But today the kalyaan mandapam is at the ransom of Trustee. No poor brahmin will get it. Now the trustee who are administrator have become more power full than the people's who money they have collected.

i would appreciate our efforts goes in helping people rather than having a debate on simple statement made on non-offensive basis.

All we want is our words should not hurt any one even if some one does not agree our idea. Let every one have right to tell their view point with out hurting any one. If we think its simple statement but it hurts others. So i dont want this debate to go on. Thank you.

 

[prpsarathy]

Hi,

It is upto individual whether to participate or not. However an issue has two sides and every body has a right to express.

 

[Seshadri Subramaniam]

Centralised fund administration with common goals and objectives with decentralised implementation would be a success... It all depends on the involvement, dedication and importance we attach to the issue...

Simply by repeating that a centralised set-up does not work, does not make it a fact...

 

[prpsarathy]

Seshadri,

It is my perception. I am not asking anybody to accept it. Further if not with the tamilbrahmins.com, i will start the same once i have my own resource to setup a site and the trust. Even if the trust and site is setup by me, the contributor must have the first right to decide whom he want to give the money. however the same structure will have the option of the donor to give this right in favour of the trustee and right to take back the delegation given to trustees.

Pls give me one reason why this particular is not viable or acceptable