Request for help by Srividhya

[prpsarathy]

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Country like america where the literacy level are high are complaining about the centralized structure created by them are not serving the people. so why we must do the same mistake

 

[Seshadri Subramaniam]

Seshadri,

It is my perception. I am not asking anybody to accept it. Further if not with the tamilbrahmins.com, i will start the same once i have my own resource to setup a site and the trust. Even if the trust and site is setup by me, the contributor must have the first right to decide whom he want to give the money. however the same structure will have the option of the donor to give this right in favour of the trustee and right to take back the delegation given to trustees.

Pls give me one reason why this particular is not viable or acceptable

I have never commented that individual efforts are unsuccessful or unviable... ??? You might have misunderstood my ruminations... my post is not at all about your efforts to start something.

It has with the general intent that you have of a centralised approach.

If we are talking about assisting the community at a broader level, then it is well that we do it united (oh crap, am beginning to repeat this in all of my posts...); economies of scale and all that... it does not denigrate individual efforts...

There may be many alternatives to address an issue... even more than one optimal solutions... you were just pointedly underplaying the centralised setup and I was just irked by that...

 

[prpsarathy]

My friend

Krishan told arjuna at the end of gita do what you feel is correct. So i shall not give sermons. But i have the liberty to decide what i must do. Furhter you have not answer my moot question, have a centralized setup but empower the donor to decide the donee. It surprises me. Even if i set up the site and the trust, i am not going to interfere in the donor decision on whom to give what. And i feel it is fair.

However, i am not seeing any member participating in the group to give valid reason for rebuking. Rather all talks about setting up a centralised setup. Absolute power corrupts obsolutely. We can learn from american failures.

 

[Seshadri Subramaniam]

I need not answer this question, as you really do not want a ratification from me...

Failures have many reasons, not easy to blame one factor...

Both the form we are debating about have their relevance... it just depends on what would suit best in the overall welfare...

I am strongly for the centralised setup purely to bring about a unity in our community... a sense of contributing to the community makes one feel a part of something... otherwise, there are lots of options in which assistance IS done at the micro level. I am doing my bit and there are my friends who do a part... If a few participate, it remains with the few and slowly goes apart...

Moreover, you are not talking about centralised setup; you are talking of a centralised "power" setup... I am talking about a centralised system of administering the funds with decentralised implementation... this can be done in various ways...

 

[prpsarathy]

decentralised implementation - Define

True, I am not seeking approval. HOwever i am open to know what is the reason why people have reservation about my views. Probably i might be having a blindspot in my analysis.

Further you have playing around the word "decentralized implementation". Can you be specifc and define the same. Probably it sounds to be like panchat raj of india where pancayat does not have economic powers.

 

[prpsarathy]

Pls go to www.alternet.org. It speaks about the centralized leader ship not bothered about the people. So why do we create another centralized setup. Create an enabling system and leave the people to do the needful

 

[prpsarathy]

If you observe one more similarity between my suggestion and hinduism is that it is never centralized anytime like christ ot christianity or prophet to islam

 

[whisper]

If you observe one more similarity between my suggestion and hinduism is that it is never centralized anytime like christ ot christianity or prophet to islam

Please dont drag hinduism into your suggestion.

 

[whisper]

Seshadri,

It is my perception. I am not asking anybody to accept it. Further if not with the tamilbrahmins.com, i will start the same once i have my own resource to setup a site and the trust. Even if the trust and site is setup by me, the contributor must have the first right to decide whom he want to give the money. however the same structure will have the option of the donor to give this right in favour of the trustee and right to take back the delegation given to trustees.

Pls give me one reason why this particular is not viable or acceptable

You try to tell that contributor right to decide whom he want give money but if the contributor just gives money to his blood relatives(who was not poor) only and say he contributed. Or if say he sponsor education for some one(some says more than one lakhs every year). Who is going to verify that? Its is just like giving some wrong details to every one.

 

[prpsarathy]

Hi,
You are talking poor, it does not matter whether it is a relative or not. Today tell me how many are helping their relatives. YOu have abondoned sister, brother and parents on the roads.

If relative are helping each other, those will not come out for third party assistance.

If a person poor and he has put up his request in the site, he seeking his assistance in large and the person giving could be his relative. If you say that the person giving the money gives to his relative, [ atleast money belongs to him]

what is the guarantee you are giving that the trustee will not give it to the relative.

In fact that is the main reason why i was contemplating such an hybrid model. Even if one person gives to his relative through the site, it will be known to all that he is giving to his relative. There will be a transaparency. Today thousand of crores [ so claims governemnt ] are in the disposal of various hindu brahmin trust. Is there a transparency. You complain about it and you want to start one another. God knows.

Further i am not dragging hinduisum i just made a comparison and i think i not made anything derogatory for anybody to advice otherwise. There are many happening outside WE could do the service there.

 

[whisper]

And how the donor knows the donee? If only the donee is known to the donor. And who is going to check the donee detalis? will there be no corruption at all? What tranasaprency will be there? Are we going to tell like krishana told arjuna that what you fell is correct or i done donation in name of god and had faith in ultimate receiver. And the donee pay the price for their karma?
Well my friend their are so many negative quotes can tell abt your idea also.
And any way you will also say we will put specific set of rules and regulations.
Here in the centralize trust also can put specific set of rules and regulations.

My only thing is why you want tell ohers idea are bad and only yours is good? let people try what every idea good for the community. Let them wish best and dont tell negative quotes.

 

[whisper]

Hi,
You are talking poor, it does not matter whether it is a relative or not. Today tell me how many are helping their relatives. YOu have abondoned sister, brother and parents on the roads.

If relative are helping each other, those will not come out for third party assistance.

If a person poor and he has put up his request in the site, he seeking his assistance in large and the person giving could be his relative. If you say that the person giving the money gives to his relative, [ atleast money belongs to him]

what is the guarantee you are giving that the trustee will not give it to the relative.

In fact that is the main reason why i was contemplating such an hybrid model. Even if one person gives to his relative through the site, it will be known to all that he is giving to his relative. There will be a transaparency. Today thousand of crores [ so claims governemnt ] are in the disposal of various hindu brahmin trust. Is there a transparency. You complain about it and you want to start one another. God knows.

Further i am not dragging hinduisum i just made a comparison and i think i not made anything derogatory for anybody to advice otherwise. There are many happening outside WE could do the service there.

How will we know from the site that relative is poor? what transaparency you will give? Just a photo of donee? god knows.

Further we never have abondoned our sisters, brothers and parents on the roads. And hinduism never need for any comparison. Just do the service from your idea to the people and we will to service from our idea. Thank you.

 

[whisper]

Hi,

Today thousand of crores [ so claims governemnt ] are in the disposal of various hindu brahmin trust. Is there a transparency. You complain about it and you want to start one another. God knows.

If you know that various brahmins trust have thousand of crores in their disposal why dont you tell the name of this trusts? Even if its from goverment source and what step the govt taken to bring them to mainstream.
We should not give a wild guess just if a governement claims. We should have a proof to claim it.

 

[prpsarathy]

Allow history to repeat

Whispher

Further i want the site to display the reciepient as credit receiver who after sometime is expected to become donor till such time he will be shown in the site as receipeint

If you read the case of srividya, yes, everything was verified after receiving the full support and completion, she has the great courtesy of not leaving her details.

IN fact at that time, i had suggested that we must not go for the giving of 100 of the fees as donation. We must encourage peope to take loans and we pay only the interest. With the assistance given to srividaya, if these gentlement could have taken my humble suggestion they would have assist ten such srividya and also out of ten if one comes back to the site to give it back to the society we will have bet of one out ten. They betted on one and one did not bother to look back. I would rather spread it thin.

Even then what i had mentioned was that leave it god. But however i see that those active members or no more coming back to the forum.

Yes, you can go your way and i will go my way that is sure. But whatever i can do, i will do but never into the concept of contribution to a trust where the trustee become god subsequently

 

[whisper]

Whispher



Yes, you can go your way and i will go my way that is sure. But whatever i can do, i will do but never into the concept of contribution to a trust where the trustee become god subsequently

Thanks at last you accept other people can also go in their way. And one more point i want to add if i feel that i can help our community people from your way also i will help them by that way. My only aim is our community should be united and help each other(even other community and hindu religions also).

 

[srikrish85]

Om

Well guys I'll do my best though I have 1000/- in my A/C.
I'm jobless since May 2007 and My account has increasingly depleted. Now how am I gonna transfer the money without your A/C ID. Is there any other way, let me know

 

[srikrish85]

I want o send DD to that girl's house. Gimme the address friends.

 

[prpsarathy]

Cooperation

Whispher,

I agree with you. Fraud is possible in every forum. We must develop a site like linkedin where the credibility is increase by their background and recommendation.

Further any asistance if it is sent to the root, being bank account for interest and school / colleage for the fees could help to curtail any mal practices in the working.

God must give more opportunity and strength to gather than amount of resource to start the trust and the site.

 

[Seshadri Subramaniam]

Further you have playing around the word "decentralized implementation". Can you be specifc and define the same. Probably it sounds to be like panchat raj of india where pancayat does not have economic powers.

• A centralised set-up harmonises the efforts of several…
• Again, what you are proposing through your website is also a centralised approach (Centralisation or decentralisation is relative)
• To avoid misuse of power, we have to set the rules and regulations so that there is no scope for abuse
• When I mean decentralised implementation, it is that the overall governing process (or system) is the same, and the decentralised bodies would be authorised to handle it (this would be by virtue of the process itself); just like setting up a good system with internal controls…

I give an example for my proposition - assume that there is a centralised fund – then a particular district branch would have the authority to pass off a loan for an applicant; they in turn, would depend on the subordinate body below them to verify the same. The last level of verification would be the direct interaction with the applicant and gathering other relevant particulars… all this would be done by the same body but at different levels. If done individually, there would be different methods of approach and not necessarily tested ones… The approach I recommend would ensure greater reach, reliability, uniformity and more involvement… (as it is a common fund to which everyone contributes, they would ensure that the information passed is accurate).

 

[prpsarathy]

Seshadri,

Fantastic system of british bureacracy. Centralized site is just a catalogue of donor and donee. Site does not approve any person or the trustee approve any person.

Donor approves or select his donee. To identify the genuineness of the donee, as i had mentioned :
Direct payment
to the school for fees in the name of the donee
to the bank for the interest
to the hospital for medical bill
Further the donee is maintained in the site as a person who has taken social credit [ A credit which has been given by the society and he is expected to repay to another person ]

So let us take the person who fruadulently represent as poor and take money from an unknown donor, it will matter to him as the details will be visible in the site as "kadankaran". For example much debated person "srividya" This could become a social stigma for the person and push the donee to become a donor atleast to the extent he took credit from the society.

Trustee could be emplowered by the donor to take decision on their behalf permanently or for a particular donation. Trustee would act as a verifying person

 

[Seshadri Subramaniam]

Sarathy, there are operational difficulties which would then warrant a direct involvement... a website can only facilitate - nothing like a direct approach...

Am talking about an approval process because there is a regulating system present... and the scope of the project would be stretched... (I have mentioned elsewhere in my other thread on this)

Call names if you want... but that is how any system works... not through the laisser faire...

There are pros and cons in any approach... it is how we deal with it... (think whisper had earlier pointed out)

Pls continue with your way... am not saying otherwise... just that you are content with your way does not degrade the other...

 

[Seshadri Subramaniam]

I am talking about a trust which has a wider scope than a website... What happened in the case of Srividhya? Somebody had to vet her details, I suppose? Did she post a request and then everybody donated to her college (without verifying)?

Dear friend, there should be direct interaction in the matters of donation etc... unknown persons using a website for the purpose of donation alone sounds pretty vulnerable...

One fundamental flaw:

Income Tax exemption is for donations to charitable instututions which are recognised by the Act... When a person donates directly to the "Requestor" and the website is only a medium, the amount donated is not eligible for the exemption...!!!

 

[prpsarathy]

Seshadri,

For example Today whatever assistance i have been giving is through the tamil brahmins. however i have done my due deligence before start paying the money. It is working fine.

I myself is chartered accountant and i know what is done in the name of trust. A very small technical hitch. It can be handled just passing the same through the trust bank account with both debit and credit being passed togather.

Further trustee or employees of trustee will just verifier of facts and the option would be at the donor to verify on the donee credentials.

 

[prpsarathy]

What i have seen about the trust which i donot want to mention is that they are at the ransom of the trustee with no transparency what so ever.

When the site and trust is operational, sponsor would be called for the site and the brick and mortar.

 

[Seshadri Subramaniam]

Seshadri,

For example Today whatever assistance i have been giving is through the tamil brahmins. however i have done my due deligence before start paying the money. It is working fine.

I myself is chartered accountant and i know what is done in the name of trust. A very small technical hitch. It can be handled just passing the same through the trust bank account with both debit and credit being passed togather.

Further trustee or employees of trustee will just verifier of facts and the option would be at the donor to verify on the donee credentials.

Way to go.. you are slowly knocking at the door of a centralised structure... It starts from this... one leads to another and soon you would be looking through my eyes...

Some trustees are selfish and abuse their power does not indicate that all trusts are powerhouses of villains... it is naive to think that.

I say we build a trust and let the governance be fair... if you still want to make your individual assessment do so...

There are many out to help but can only afford a small amount of money... while individual efforts suit people like you, it does not for many. So, the trust would be a pool of resources which would be used for common purposes... say build kalyana mandapams at major districts which are well maintained and are free for brahmins... build health care and educational institutions...

Initially, instead of giving loans to individuals, let us make the education free (say upto 10th std) in our institutions... then let us slowly build it up...

It is up to us to decide...