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Re: Horoscope matching

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Re: Horoscope matching

Horoscope matching is nothing but cheating ourselves just to satisfy the parents of the boy and girl. only the consents of the boy and girl is more important than horoscope matching. Only our community people are very particular about horoscopes and their matching, star poruththam etc., What if the parent change the horoscope of his son or daughter,if the original horoscope is said to be a Dosha jathakam. I know astrology well to a certain extent and if somebody approach me to find out
jathaka poruththams I usually tell them what the horoscope reveals but at the end I always advise them not to be particular about jathaka poruththam but to see the boys and/or girls character and conduct their educational and family background,
and proceed with those known informations.
Dont be carried away with what the present day astrologers tell about horoscopes and their poruththam etc.,
:target::smash:
 
Horoscope matching is nothing but cheating ourselves just to satisfy the parents of the boy and girl. only the consents of the boy and girl is more important than horoscope matching. Only our community people are very particular about horoscopes and their matching, star poruththam etc., What if the parent change the horoscope of his son or daughter,if the original horoscope is said to be a Dosha jathakam. I know astrology well to a certain extent and if somebody approach me to find out
jathaka poruththams I usually tell them what the horoscope reveals but at the end I always advise them not to be particular about jathaka poruththam but to see the boys and/or girls character and conduct their educational and family background,
and proceed with those known informations.
Dont be carried away with what the present day astrologers tell about horoscopes and their poruththam etc.,
:target::smash:

Sir,
I do not believe in astrology.
Your post will hurt a lot of Astrology believers, and hit some of the professional astrologers in the pocket. I agree with the gist of your post.
 

Here is the note given by the founder of a brahmin matrimony site!


tips.jpg
 
Horoscope matching is nothing but cheating ourselves just to satisfy the parents of the boy and girl. only the consents of the boy and girl is more important than horoscope matching. Only our community people are very particular about horoscopes and their matching, star poruththam etc., What if the parent change the horoscope of his son or daughter,if the original horoscope is said to be a Dosha jathakam. I know astrology well to a certain extent and if somebody approach me to find out
jathaka poruththams I usually tell them what the horoscope reveals but at the end I always advise them not to be particular about jathaka poruththam but to see the boys and/or girls character and conduct their educational and family background,
and proceed with those known informations.
Dont be carried away with what the present day astrologers tell about horoscopes and their poruththam etc.,

It has been the practice of astrologers as also the astrology texts dealing with jAthakap poruttham (HM) to emphasize the longevity of the mangalyam for the girl/woman, to the practical exclusion of every other aspect. Such a practice evolved, as I learned from experienced astrologers in Kerala (tabra, namboothiri and nair astrologers), because brahmins, including the namboothiris did not have widow remarriage among them. Hence, the same astrologers, who will definitely know your caste, used to give less emphasis on the mangalyam aspect but more on the chances of enjoying conjugal pleasures, financial improvement, good children, etc., when considering horoscopes of nairs and other castes who had no problem with widow remarriage.

Since the brahmin attitude to divorce, divorcee/widow remarriage, etc., have changed radically in the recent past, I feel that the astrologers should also move away from the traditional way of looking at HM and concentrate more on aspects like the chances of the couple enjoying conjugal pleasures without problems, financial improvement, good children, etc. Simply abolishing HM completely will be a disservice to those people who do not go by the so-called "Love route".
 
Shri N Panchapakesan is known to me & he is doing yomen service for Marriage alliance, and he is the best & experienced person & large number of parents have been benefitted in getting their sons/ daughters married thru. Horoscope exchange. He is not fussy about horoscope matching, only to the extent reqd. He leaves it to parents/ Boys/ Girls to discuss & decide on the basis of Manaporutham. Even in the Fiftees/ Sixtees/ seventees good number of families even never had Horoscopes & they relied on the mutual consent not only for themselves , but also their parents such that both families are happy & have willingness to resolve any problems faced by the other members of the family

cURRENT / PREVALENT SITUATIOn IS SUCH THAT AFTER SERIOUSLY GIVING IMPORTANCE TO hOROSCOPE MATCHING HAVE GIVEN ONLY 2ND PREFERENCE. fIRST & FOREMOST PREFERENCE IS THAT THE bOY & THE gIRL SHOULD ENTER INTO HAVING DIALOGUE FOR A FEW DAYS OVER pHONE ON LINE & THEN REPORT TO RESPECTIVE PARENTS & IN COURSE OF TIME THE ALLIANCE IS REJECTED OR CONCLUDED. mOSTLY ,OUR PRACTICAL EXPERIENCE SHOWS GIRLS ARE VERY CHOOSY & IT DELAYS CONSENSES.
rISHIKESAN
 
[h=5]There must be some match to have one as a partner, for those who do not by go by the so-called "Love route" as sangom Sir puts it. I am sure many members matched the horoscopes before finalizing their son/ daughter’s marriage.[/h]
 
There must be some match to have one as a partner, for those who do not by go by the so-called "Love route" as sangom Sir puts it. I am sure many members matched the horoscopes before finalizing their son/ daughter’s marriage.
Finding suitable match (?!) was NOT this difficult a decade ago, P J Sir! :fish2:
 
Raji Madam
Even if it is not difficult to find Brides a decade ago, generally Brahmin community, please note GENERALLY , did horoscope matching; Many say so many things in the open Forum like this, but when it comes to their personal life, probably very few follow them; like there is no caste, no religion , etc etc.

Nowadays we see many inter caste marriages, because of opportunities for Loving different caste girls/ boys.
They surely do not see any horoscope matching.

May be our sons an daughters might not be following the same procedure when they fix their son/ daughter's marriage.
 
Mr. PJ ji,
Have you seen postings in this site? Do you think we will keep pace with the progress taking place in the society? Including you person in the site still want to live in the 14th century and extolling the virtues of that period, some even revert back to manu smriti.
 
prasadji


why this outburst ? Please go through my post once again, i am not asking anyone to follow 14 th century Manu smithi.
 
prasadji


why this outburst ? Please go through my post once again, i am not asking anyone to follow 14 th century Manu smithi.

No Mr. PJ I was not talking about you, I was saying that there are other members who are still stuck in the mud and happy to wallow in it.
 
i dont know but i think it is deeply embedded in the minds of tamils regardless of castes.

my mother stopped believing long ago. my own arrangement with mrs K came through a chance meeting in woodlands drive in between mom/chithi & mrs K's sister/chithi. mutual admiration of diamonds and familiarity of the accents (palghat) initated a relationship which started with a shared table. further enquiries led to compatibility of family.

my mom stated that she did not believe and will not match horoscopes. but mrs K family was welcome. they too demurred (i must have been that impressive heh heh heh :).

forward the clock 28 years. my son. someone wanted to match him with a tambram girl 5'10" (he is 6'2") who born in north america and working in the same city as he. we offered that to exchange phone numbers so that they can communicate. the girl parents wanted horoscope, which we did not have.

they wanted info re place time of birth etc so that they can make out one. we refused as that would be a violation of what we believed. we think that the girl is the loser here. :). the mother blamed the father for this adamancy. we did not care, but would not budge :)

my son found a top notch girl all by himself and happily married now.

i hear from neeya naana, all other tamils too follow horoscope and employ marriage brokers. love marriage, as we know, can result in bloodshed.
 

Here is the note given by the founder of a brahmin matrimony site!


tips.jpg

i love this site, and often on a quiet afternoon, spend quite some time looking at the pix of the available girls and sometimes the guys.

i would say, on an average, the girls are well fed. i dont know if their weight is directly related to the income earned but definitely the majority are not the slim coco cola bottle shaped lasses. more of the pear time i would say. but all of them can look graceful in a sari, though some wear those tight churidars, with the tires waiting to burst out.

also, many girls, do not take the trouble to present themselves well. this photo here gives the first impression, and should they not do some work on themselves (even go to a beautician) to make themselves saleable?

the guys are mostly in thirties, and one does feel sorry for them. i am quite sure, the girls have looked at these and rejected. on one hand, while the girls list is constantly refreshed, i have seen many of the boys there permanently. this website ssmatri.net is a good indicator of our marriage market. i think so.
 
Nowadays, especially Brahmin boys are finding it very difficult to find a suitable bride, and most of them ( Repeat most of them ) are not love making type either, they find it very hard.
Even those families who were very strict in horoscope matching before marriage, are gradually changing their mind and not going too deep into horoscope matching.

I am sure the coming generations in about 20 years, especially those who live outside India will not go for this cumbersome procedure of horoscope matching.
 
Nowadays, especially Brahmin boys are finding it very difficult to find a suitable bride, and most of them ( Repeat most of them ) are not love making type either, they find it very hard.
Even those families who were very strict in horoscope matching before marriage, are gradually changing their mind and not going too deep into horoscope matching.

I am sure the coming generations in about 20 years, especially those who live outside India will not go for this cumbersome procedure of horoscope matching.

PJ,

dont know how old your grand children are. but i am yet to find more than one marriage, here in toronto, which was arranged for any boys or girls here. i mean only tambrams. that includes my children, who long ago, have told their parents, to lay off, and they are capable of finding their own mates. :)

i can only speak for toronto. all the tambram girls and guys, in the past 10 years, when folks who moved here in the 70s and 80s, their sons and daughters came of marriageable age, all married outside of tambram group. it is not for not knowing tambrams eligibles - there are sufficient number to form atleast pairing but these youngsters have indicated no interest in their counterparts from the same community.

the range is wide - from other south indian brahmin to sikhs, xtian to muslim (1) and whites (who are mostly irreligious). max number i would say is to north indians, mostly punjabis maybe because they are the largest indian non muslim group. surprisingly all the marriages, carried out through their own choices, have been pretty stable and touch wood, no divorces.

the breakups happened in those marriages before 2000, when the first crop married - mostly on parents' insistence - fellow tambrams or indians - and the second marriage was to one of their choice - all whites. tambrams appeared to have this thing against their children marrying whites, but of late that too has gone the way of the naya paisa coin. :)

in all these cases, the families are orthodox as in tambram orthodox and revert to the old methods and practices the minute they land in india.

the children have done well, most of them high earning professionals. they prefer to choose their own life partners, and parents have accepted it. amazing, how even before the generation is dead, the caste skin is cast off (pun meant here). so it cannot be all that religious would it?

amazingly not one tambram has converted or does that type of thing, which means, that their roots and identity is strong. the only ones who would insist on conversions here would be jews or muslims, and even there, i think, it does not happen all the time. KRS, once married to a jewish lady, might be able to shed some light - re whether this habit differs between orthodox and reformed jews.

if i were in india, probably, judging by what my nieces and nephews have done, it is 100% love marriage, but only within tambram community. the girls are lucky as they had multiple suitors - one particular pretty girl, the future mil president of a large financial organization, literally begged to have this girl as a dil. so tell me, who has the upper hand :)

but, i am saddened, that as a community, known for its survival skills, we have let away a whole generation of boys, to age without finding them a spouse. ideally, even though i dont like them, the mutts should have stepped in, and instead of preaching, come up with practical ways to find spouses. understanding there are no girls in tambram community, find girls outside..whatever it may take..so sad.

what is the use of mutts, if they cannot come to assistance in times of need, whatever the nature of the need may be?

and even here, in this forum, most of the BB (brahmin bigots) will kick and scream at supposed hatred, but not one of them can coherently think, and help out single folks. i suspect that these BB (bigots) are among the biggest strongholds of the status quo..and they would rather perform a gotterdamerung on the male youth than 'sullify' the bloodline with 'polluted inferior strains' from other castes. so be it.
 
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kunjuppu

My grandsons and one grand daughter are aged between 7 -9 ; by the time they mature to marriageable age, things will be definitely different.

As of now, my son or daughter's family have no intention of moving to India because of their profession.
 
kunjuppu

My grandsons and one grand daughter are aged between 7 -9 ; by the time they mature to marriageable age, things will be definitely different.

As of now, my son or daughter's family have no intention of moving to India because of their profession.

thank you PJ.

it is a rarity to find tambrams going back to resettle in india. i call it resettle, only because it is starting all over again.

i have two cousins who did it. both have usa passports, and one, managed to get expat terms from his american company. initially at singapore and then new delhi. he is the only son, and is happy to keep his parents. his wife, happy with the gated expat usa like community in gurgaon - it is more of america than america itself. the stores inside it carry everything in a usa supermarket, i hear. and all are rich and their children will go to universities only in the usa.

another one moved to bangalore - same reason. to be with elderly parents. the children are in the usa and the cousin, waiting for parents to die, before moving back. the parents here, are filthy rich, and so, they pop over to usa, 3 times a year :)

my own parents had dreams of me moving back. but once they came to canada, saw our lifestyles, she sadly remarked, that no way india can match up to the living in the west. this was 1985 and i could feel her pain.

in retrospect, i am glad i moved to canada. my own children, i would have found it difficult to justify many of my own social stands, for all of it, directly impacts the tambram community, in an adverse manner. but probably i would have belonged to the comfortable middle class and would have bypassed the worst of caste based discriminations. still, there is a level of unpleasantness, which simply does not rub away.

i think, till we do what germany did after the war ie go through a period of extended self analysis, and come up with some terms of reconciliation of our society, the wounds inflicted my manu smrithi will be there for a very long time, long after we and several generations after us, have come and gone.

ambedkar's constitution imposed top down reforms. but i think, we need a bottoms up from the grass roots level - social transformation of our attitudes. when that happens, arranged marriages, if they still exists, will be across castes. so far, i have seen only one such arranged marriage - across caste.

:)
 
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hi

this jataka porutham and mana porutham are good in books...but in reality life....if anything goes wrong....first blame comes

from gal's nakshatram/jatakam comes first for pariharams....we can advice to any body easily....may not possible in own's life...

we discussed a lot abt jatakam/divorce/I C /IR marriages....every aspect of human life is unpredictable.....still a lot of

jatakam/jataka dosha pariharams in our tambram community.....if every thing is good/going on welll....nobody bothers

abt jatakam/jataka doshams....some thing goes wrong in married life..then search for astrologer and visiting navagraha

sthalams....we cant deny.....its purely a personal....somebody's medicine is somebody's poison....
 
hi

this jataka porutham and mana porutham are good in books...but in reality life....if anything goes wrong....first blame comes

from gal's nakshatram/jatakam comes first for pariharams....we can advice to any body easily....may not possible in own's life...

we discussed a lot abt jatakam/divorce/I C /IR marriages....every aspect of human life is unpredictable.....still a lot of

jatakam/jataka dosha pariharams in our tambram community.....if every thing is good/going on welll....nobody bothers

abt jatakam/jataka doshams....some thing goes wrong in married life..then search for astrologer and visiting navagraha

sthalams....we cant deny.....its purely a personal....somebody's medicine is somebody's poison....

is that not human nature?

do we go to a doctor when we are feeling well? it is only the fever or cough or cold that forces us to seek medication.

i guess, it is the same with marriage. maybe we should go to a marriage counsellor instead of pariharams? dont know. atleast with the counsellor, the couple has a chance to air out their gripes and the counsellor can mediate the issues? i dont know. i have not been to a counsellor, and unlikely i will.

because you need both the partners willing to counsellling. in many troubled marriages, one or both the spouses, i know, abhor the very concept of a third party. or worse still, blame the other partner for everything :)
 
........ Since the brahmin attitude to divorce, divorcee/widow remarriage, etc., have changed radically in the recent past, I feel that the astrologers should also move away from the traditional way of looking at HM and concentrate more on aspects like the chances of the couple enjoying conjugal pleasures without problems, financial improvement, good children, etc. Simply abolishing HM completely will be a disservice to those people who do not go by the so-called "Love route".
Very true Sangom Sir! But the real problem is the money making technique of the 'arai vEkkAdu' astrologers!! :popcorn:
 
......... Nowadays we see many inter caste marriages, because of opportunities for Loving different caste girls/ boys.
They surely do not see any horoscope matching.........
Cupid does not shoot his arrows on everyone! Hence many do not get the opportunity to fall in :love: !

But the pity is that some are NOT bold; even after two years of luvvu, a gentleman finds the sagOthram

aspect and asks for advice in our forum!! :dizzy:
 

Dear Kunjuppu Sir,

I think your mom was better than you! Do you know why I say this?

my mom stated that she did not believe and will not match horoscopes. but mrs K family was welcome.[/QUOTE]

Whereas, you did not allow the parents of a tall tambram girl to check the horoscopes!

they wanted info re place time of birth etc so that they can make out one. we refused as that would be a violation of what we believed.

You should have let them have their belief imho! OK anyway your son got a pretty spouse by his search.

That is so cooooooool!

P.S: I remember that you had a chance to be a child
award_star.png
in Tamil cinema! :D
 
Dear Sri Kunjuppu Ji,

You said:
KRS, once married to a jewish lady, might be able to shed some light - re whether this habit differs between orthodox and reformed jews.

Mine was a very unique marriage to a very unique lady. I married way, way up (same with my current consort), and perhaps did not do her life any justice.

I was (and still am) a large part a 'moufussil' boy, having been raised in a small town, in a joint family, with no actual guidance. Was quite uncouth, (perhaps as i am today), when I departed for USA, with a scholarship in hand, to my astonishment.

I acquiesced to my mom's demand to have an arranged marriage - even knew the girl she was looking at (a distant relative), and liked her from a distance.

Then I met my late wife in a very unlikely place/event. That moment, changed everything. I, even now look back in wonderment as to how it happened (by the way, it happened again), and what all I can say is that that was the way it was to be.

She came from a very orthodox family, but, she was such an intellectual, she took every religious practice very seriously (she knew Hebrew and had Bat Mitzvah). She questioned the practices, and came to a point, where my own attraction to Vedanta met that point in equality.

We raised our boys, with exposure to both religions, and I am proud to say, they have found their own individual philosophies, that guide them and their families well.

She never tried to convert me, trying her best to understand my religion and vice versa.

We loved each other at a deep human level and that was enough.

Regards,
KRS
 

Dear Kunjuppu Sir,

I think your mom was better than you! Do you know why I say this?

my mom stated that she did not believe and will not match horoscopes. but mrs K family was welcome.[/QUOTE]

Whereas, you did not allow the parents of a tall tambram girl to check the horoscopes!



You should have let them have their belief imho! OK anyway your son got a pretty spouse by his search.

That is so cooooooool!

P.S: I remember that you had a chance to be a child
award_star.png
in Tamil cinema! :D

dear raji

there is one more issue involved here. my son.

i have already said several times here in this forum, that my children, would prefer to do their own hunting. the only concession given to us is an introductory phone or email. maximum.

my son does not even know what horoscope is. and we (mrs K & self) felt that if he found out about this, he would be upset. as a violation of his privacy in exposing such info to strangers. that might not make sense in an indian environment, but here in canada, it does.

and also, the need to horoscope match, indicates an attitude, in my opinion. it is not an attitude that i condone. i think we are beyond horoscope matching and more into the rational view of 'mana porutham' which is essentially a boy/girl affair, and not a boyfamily/girlfamily affair.

incidentally, my son had his wedding in the city hall with just the parents and siblings present. we announced this only after the ceremony. you should see the howls from relatives and some friends too. it is basically what he wanted, and he wanted it a private affair. all in all, a different way of looking at things.

i only wish, i had married in a temple and walked away with mrs K. even now after 34 years, i have regrets about the huge spending.

interestingly, many of our friends, said that they too will follow the city hall method of marriage. we are attending two marriages this year - but both formal affairs, one in niagara falls and other in las vegas. apparently, while many utter praises for city hall simple weddings, the concept of elaborate weddings is still deep in our psyche. so there is no fear of the wedding business running out of customers ;)
 
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