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CHANDRU1849
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Since she was not eating her own community, she was not a cannibal, per explanation given for cannibalism.
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Ravana Returns
- Thread starter Janaki Jambunathan
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Since she was not eating her own community, she was not a cannibal, per explanation given for cannibalism.
C
CHANDRU1849
Guest
Does Zoological science extent to Asuras also? Are Asuras human beings or animals or in between? But, it is nice to see Zoological Science was in existence during Ramayana period also. A big LOL.
Janaki Jambunathan
Active member
Zoology as a science might not have existed. Ramayana recognizes animal and they play huge role in this story Like Monkeys Jatayu Maricha Maan etc And many of our mythological Gods and Icons are partly animal and partly man. I have heard in fact that Dasavathara can beautifully merge with Darwin's theory of evolution Starting from Aquatic Matsya then moving on to amphibians to vertebrates to Human And even in Human Avatars there is a progression to perfection in Rama
Janaki Jambunathan
Active member
Are Asuras human beings or animals or in between?
This is what I understant. It explained to me beautifully the Surasamharam performed in Tiruchendur - An Asura is vanquished and is called Surasamharam and not Asurasamharam which would have been logical!
Sura -Asura and Deva-Danava are terms that have the same meaning. Suras are the sons of Aditi and Asuras are sons of Diti. Diti and Aditi are sisters and also wives of the Sage Kashyap. The side of the Sura's represents the good forces and the side of the Asura's represents the negative energies and hence all the characters that played a positive role in these stories have been placed on the side of the Suras and vice-versa. There is no word as "evil" in the Hindu thinking as ultimately everyone is "good" and there is no permanent "evil" or "satan", as can be seen that even the main villain in the stories for example Ravana in Ramayana achieves ultimate God-head because he utters the name of "Shri Ram" before dying. So God forgives everyone eventually and he has to or then he is not the all-forgiving god.
This is what I understant. It explained to me beautifully the Surasamharam performed in Tiruchendur - An Asura is vanquished and is called Surasamharam and not Asurasamharam which would have been logical!
Sura -Asura and Deva-Danava are terms that have the same meaning. Suras are the sons of Aditi and Asuras are sons of Diti. Diti and Aditi are sisters and also wives of the Sage Kashyap. The side of the Sura's represents the good forces and the side of the Asura's represents the negative energies and hence all the characters that played a positive role in these stories have been placed on the side of the Suras and vice-versa. There is no word as "evil" in the Hindu thinking as ultimately everyone is "good" and there is no permanent "evil" or "satan", as can be seen that even the main villain in the stories for example Ravana in Ramayana achieves ultimate God-head because he utters the name of "Shri Ram" before dying. So God forgives everyone eventually and he has to or then he is not the all-forgiving god.
If she was a different species, why did she try to mate with Rama / Lakshmana? That goes against the definition of species. Same goes for Ravana and Sita.
Janaki Jambunathan
Active member
Your question is based on the normal sexual attitudes inculcated by religious scriptures like Bible and others. Sexuality or psychology of sexual urge and attitudes may not confirm to these rigid moral codes . You come across the Sin of Sodom etc in scriptures Now Gay marriages are legal in some countries and people are thinking of decriminalzing 'sexual officens " as coded today There are reported cases of Humans having sex with cattles etc. many may go unreported In Hindu Epic Mahabharth Kadothkaja is a good example born out of a similar situation between Bheema and his wife a rakshashi!
Sexual Cannibalism in Animals is quite diferent. Seen among some insects where the female eats the male after sex ! Some reports are there of reverse cannibalism also where the male eats the female after sex. By defination Cannibalism including sexual should be with in the same species
Brahmanyan
Active member
Ravana has been my subject of interest for many reasons. The following is my summing up of him after reading many sources, which I have recorded in my Blog .
Brahmanyan,
Bangalore.
RAVANA BRAHMA - A multi faceted personality.
Ravana was a multi faced personality. The formidable king of Lanka almost came close to becoming an unquestioned ruler of the three worlds. The great epic Ramayana is as much about the defeat of Ravana as much as it is also about the life of Sri Rama, King of Ayodhya. So, had Ravana learnt the lesson of controlling his ambitions, it would not have been necessary for Lord Vishnu to incarnate upon earth as Sri Rama.
Ravana was a direct descendant of Lord Brahma and Brahmin by birth. He was blessed with the very best of parents. His father was the great Sage Vishravas who was the son of Maharishi Pulastya Prajapathi (one of the mind born Saptarishis) and the grandson of none other than Lord Brahma himself. Maharishi Agasthya Muni was the brother of Sage Vishravas. Sage Vishravas had married Devavarni the daughter of rishi Bharadwaja and Princess Kaikasi the daughter of Sumali. While Kubera was the son of Devavarni, Ravana was the son of Princess Kaikesi. His mother Princess Kaikesi was the daughter of King Sumali of the Daithyas or Asuras. The Daithyas were descends of Diti, the second wife of Sage Kashyapa, thus were brothers to the Devas who were descended from Aditi, Kashyapa’s first wife.
Princess Kaikesi was a very ambitious lady and that the Sage Vishravas recognized her true ambitions when she asked him to marry her. Sage Vishravas also warned Princess Kaikesi that , their offspring may turn out to be bad. But, this information did not deter Princess Kaikesi who was soon blessed several children.The eldest of Princess Kaikesi’s children was Ravana. At birth Ravana was given the name of Dashanana or Dasagriva, since he was said to have the mental strength of ten people. He was an exemplary scholer and mastered all the Vedas and Sastras under his father. He was a great Veena player. He was a Samavedin. He was an ardent devotee of Lord Siva and known for his Siva Tandava. Due to this only he was named Ravana by none else than by the Lord Siva himself. He had two younger brothers namely Vibhishana and Kumbakarna. In addition, Kaikesi gave birth to a daughter by the name Soorpanakha.
However different sources cite Ravana having more siblings than the ones named. For instance, Ravana is said to have had a brother named Mahiravana who was a powerful magician and became the ruler of the netherworld. In addition, there is also mention of Khara and Dushana in the Ramayana. But, all sources agree that Ravana also had a half brother older than him, Kubera, the lord of wealth, the first son of Vishravas. Ravana always had a contentious relationship with his half brother.
As a child Ravana was very diligent and intelligent, an ideal scholar in all respects. However, his father also noted that Ravana tended to be arrogant and aggressive, taking after his maternal side. Ravana was very well educated and he was recognized as a learned and proficient individual even by his enemies. He mastered the Vedas, Shastras and the ways of the Kshatriyas. His mastery in the use of every weapon was well known and he was a great sorcerer. His father Sage Vishravas must have realized that Ravana was meant to rule a kingdom. However, he also noted that Ravana tended to be arrogant and aggressive, taking after his maternal side.
Ravana performed several yagnas as a Brahmin including the one for no other than Lord Shiva and Parvati themselves. The puranas tell us about the magnitude of Ravana’s learning and skill. He was unmatched in his knowledge of the nitishastra. Indeed, after his defeat towards the end of the Ramayana, Rama orders his brother Lakshmana to learn the art of nitishastra from the dying Ravana. In addition, he was a well renowned Veena player, his personal emblem being the Veena. Already a great musician and scholar, Ravana added leadership qualities to his list of virtues. He was the undisputed leader amongst his siblings and even after growing up, his brothers and sister except Vibheshana would primarily defer to his judgment despite having differences of opinion.
Ravana had several wives but foremost among them was Queen Mandodari daughter of Maya.She was known for her beauty, grace and chastity. She was one of the pancha kanyas according to Hindu mythology and merely reminding her name is said to wash away all the sins. Princess Mandodari was the daughter of Maya the divine architect and Hema a celestial dancer. Maya was a descendant of Diti and hence was an asura . Thus Maya was known as Mayasura and also as Maya Ditya.
After nearly completing his domination of the worlds, Ravana returned to Lanka to rule over his dominions. As a citadel designed by none other than Vishwakarma,the architect of the Gods, Lanka was matchless. Its walls were strong and well defended. A guardian spirit watched over the main gate ensuring that enemies never entered the city. The legends talk about the wealth of Lanka during the rule of Ravana. It was said that hungar was virtually not known and even the poor ate out of vessels of gold and silver. Ravana himself was credited to have been a very able and benevolent administrator. He was ably aided in this by his brother Vibheshana who continued to follow the path of Dharma above all things. Vibheshana was with Ravana and helped to moderate all his orders until he got banished from the kingdom for speaking against the abduction of Sita, wife of Rama.
Ravana’s life was a classic example of brilliance gone wrong. He had gained the very best instruction and was truly great in his abilities and achievements, a fact that was appreciated by his favorite God Shiva. However,unfortunately he never learnt the virtue of humility. His arrogance and conceit proved to be his nemesis. Instead of following the path of Dharma, he chose to flout it time and again. Instead of gaining fame for his countless good qualities, Ravana became known for his improper behavior towards humans and women in particular. His atrocities kept growing in number and eventually became so terrible, that it took an incarnation of Lord Vishnu to subdue him.
Absolute power corrupts absolutely and the mighty Ravana moved from one blunder to another, angering many a mortal and God in the bargain. A true devotee of Lord Shiva , Ravana is said to have composed the "Shiva Tandava Stotra" while trying to gain boons from Shiva. Shiva who was busy at the moment dancing the tandava with his consort Parvati knew of his devotee’s intentions but chose to ignore them. Ravana decided to lift the Kailasa Mountain, the abode of Lord Shiva and take it with him to Lanka. Lord Shiva, in turn enraged by Ravana’s presumptions trod heavily back with his toe, nearly crushing Ravana in the process. It is at this time that Ravana realized his mistake and begged the Lord to end the misery, even sacrificing his numerous heads to the God. A calm Shiva appeared before Ravana and presented him with the Atma Lingam after formally naming him Ravanasura. Ravana continued on his way back to Lanka taking the Atma Lingam with him only to lose it on the way. The spot is now said to be Rameshwaram today.In the end, as he lay dying on the battlefield, holding on to the very last breath and giving Lakshmana instruction on Nitishastra and proper administration, Ravana is said to have commented dryly, “Never assume that you have all the time in the world and take nothing for granted. Never procrastinate. I conquered the Heavens and imprisoned Yama, the lord of Death to my bedstead and Shani, the ninth planet under my throne. I told myself that I will always have time to finish them later. What good did this procrastination do? They prevailed anyway.”
There is an interesting anecdote about one class of Brahmins known as "Saryuparin Brahmins" in North India. When Lord Rama returned to Ayodhya after his victory in Lanka, he wanted to perform "Aswamedha Yagna". For this purpose he invited the local Brahmins to perform the yagna. But they refused the offer since Rama did the sin of Brahma-hatya by killing Ravana, the son of a Brahmin. However some Brahmin families accepted the request of Lord Rama and performed the Yagna. For which they got Lands and wealth at the other side of River Sarayu. Thus the descendants of these families are called "Sarayupari Brahmins" even today. These Brahmins are also called "Kanyakubja Brahmins". Their families spread over many places in UP and Madhya Pradesh.One of the famous persons belonging to the "Kanyakubja Brahmins" sect is Sri Atal Behari Vajapayeeji.
Brahmanyan,
Bangalore.
RAVANA BRAHMA - A multi faceted personality.
Ravana was a multi faced personality. The formidable king of Lanka almost came close to becoming an unquestioned ruler of the three worlds. The great epic Ramayana is as much about the defeat of Ravana as much as it is also about the life of Sri Rama, King of Ayodhya. So, had Ravana learnt the lesson of controlling his ambitions, it would not have been necessary for Lord Vishnu to incarnate upon earth as Sri Rama. Ravana was a direct descendant of Lord Brahma and Brahmin by birth. He was blessed with the very best of parents. His father was the great Sage Vishravas who was the son of Maharishi Pulastya Prajapathi (one of the mind born Saptarishis) and the grandson of none other than Lord Brahma himself. Maharishi Agasthya Muni was the brother of Sage Vishravas. Sage Vishravas had married Devavarni the daughter of rishi Bharadwaja and Princess Kaikasi the daughter of Sumali. While Kubera was the son of Devavarni, Ravana was the son of Princess Kaikesi. His mother Princess Kaikesi was the daughter of King Sumali of the Daithyas or Asuras. The Daithyas were descends of Diti, the second wife of Sage Kashyapa, thus were brothers to the Devas who were descended from Aditi, Kashyapa’s first wife.
Princess Kaikesi was a very ambitious lady and that the Sage Vishravas recognized her true ambitions when she asked him to marry her. Sage Vishravas also warned Princess Kaikesi that , their offspring may turn out to be bad. But, this information did not deter Princess Kaikesi who was soon blessed several children.The eldest of Princess Kaikesi’s children was Ravana. At birth Ravana was given the name of Dashanana or Dasagriva, since he was said to have the mental strength of ten people. He was an exemplary scholer and mastered all the Vedas and Sastras under his father. He was a great Veena player. He was a Samavedin. He was an ardent devotee of Lord Siva and known for his Siva Tandava. Due to this only he was named Ravana by none else than by the Lord Siva himself. He had two younger brothers namely Vibhishana and Kumbakarna. In addition, Kaikesi gave birth to a daughter by the name Soorpanakha.
However different sources cite Ravana having more siblings than the ones named. For instance, Ravana is said to have had a brother named Mahiravana who was a powerful magician and became the ruler of the netherworld. In addition, there is also mention of Khara and Dushana in the Ramayana. But, all sources agree that Ravana also had a half brother older than him, Kubera, the lord of wealth, the first son of Vishravas. Ravana always had a contentious relationship with his half brother.
As a child Ravana was very diligent and intelligent, an ideal scholar in all respects. However, his father also noted that Ravana tended to be arrogant and aggressive, taking after his maternal side. Ravana was very well educated and he was recognized as a learned and proficient individual even by his enemies. He mastered the Vedas, Shastras and the ways of the Kshatriyas. His mastery in the use of every weapon was well known and he was a great sorcerer. His father Sage Vishravas must have realized that Ravana was meant to rule a kingdom. However, he also noted that Ravana tended to be arrogant and aggressive, taking after his maternal side.
Ravana performed several yagnas as a Brahmin including the one for no other than Lord Shiva and Parvati themselves. The puranas tell us about the magnitude of Ravana’s learning and skill. He was unmatched in his knowledge of the nitishastra. Indeed, after his defeat towards the end of the Ramayana, Rama orders his brother Lakshmana to learn the art of nitishastra from the dying Ravana. In addition, he was a well renowned Veena player, his personal emblem being the Veena. Already a great musician and scholar, Ravana added leadership qualities to his list of virtues. He was the undisputed leader amongst his siblings and even after growing up, his brothers and sister except Vibheshana would primarily defer to his judgment despite having differences of opinion.
Ravana had several wives but foremost among them was Queen Mandodari daughter of Maya.She was known for her beauty, grace and chastity. She was one of the pancha kanyas according to Hindu mythology and merely reminding her name is said to wash away all the sins. Princess Mandodari was the daughter of Maya the divine architect and Hema a celestial dancer. Maya was a descendant of Diti and hence was an asura . Thus Maya was known as Mayasura and also as Maya Ditya.
After nearly completing his domination of the worlds, Ravana returned to Lanka to rule over his dominions. As a citadel designed by none other than Vishwakarma,the architect of the Gods, Lanka was matchless. Its walls were strong and well defended. A guardian spirit watched over the main gate ensuring that enemies never entered the city. The legends talk about the wealth of Lanka during the rule of Ravana. It was said that hungar was virtually not known and even the poor ate out of vessels of gold and silver. Ravana himself was credited to have been a very able and benevolent administrator. He was ably aided in this by his brother Vibheshana who continued to follow the path of Dharma above all things. Vibheshana was with Ravana and helped to moderate all his orders until he got banished from the kingdom for speaking against the abduction of Sita, wife of Rama.
Ravana’s life was a classic example of brilliance gone wrong. He had gained the very best instruction and was truly great in his abilities and achievements, a fact that was appreciated by his favorite God Shiva. However,unfortunately he never learnt the virtue of humility. His arrogance and conceit proved to be his nemesis. Instead of following the path of Dharma, he chose to flout it time and again. Instead of gaining fame for his countless good qualities, Ravana became known for his improper behavior towards humans and women in particular. His atrocities kept growing in number and eventually became so terrible, that it took an incarnation of Lord Vishnu to subdue him.
Absolute power corrupts absolutely and the mighty Ravana moved from one blunder to another, angering many a mortal and God in the bargain. A true devotee of Lord Shiva , Ravana is said to have composed the "Shiva Tandava Stotra" while trying to gain boons from Shiva. Shiva who was busy at the moment dancing the tandava with his consort Parvati knew of his devotee’s intentions but chose to ignore them. Ravana decided to lift the Kailasa Mountain, the abode of Lord Shiva and take it with him to Lanka. Lord Shiva, in turn enraged by Ravana’s presumptions trod heavily back with his toe, nearly crushing Ravana in the process. It is at this time that Ravana realized his mistake and begged the Lord to end the misery, even sacrificing his numerous heads to the God. A calm Shiva appeared before Ravana and presented him with the Atma Lingam after formally naming him Ravanasura. Ravana continued on his way back to Lanka taking the Atma Lingam with him only to lose it on the way. The spot is now said to be Rameshwaram today.In the end, as he lay dying on the battlefield, holding on to the very last breath and giving Lakshmana instruction on Nitishastra and proper administration, Ravana is said to have commented dryly, “Never assume that you have all the time in the world and take nothing for granted. Never procrastinate. I conquered the Heavens and imprisoned Yama, the lord of Death to my bedstead and Shani, the ninth planet under my throne. I told myself that I will always have time to finish them later. What good did this procrastination do? They prevailed anyway.”
There is an interesting anecdote about one class of Brahmins known as "Saryuparin Brahmins" in North India. When Lord Rama returned to Ayodhya after his victory in Lanka, he wanted to perform "Aswamedha Yagna". For this purpose he invited the local Brahmins to perform the yagna. But they refused the offer since Rama did the sin of Brahma-hatya by killing Ravana, the son of a Brahmin. However some Brahmin families accepted the request of Lord Rama and performed the Yagna. For which they got Lands and wealth at the other side of River Sarayu. Thus the descendants of these families are called "Sarayupari Brahmins" even today. These Brahmins are also called "Kanyakubja Brahmins". Their families spread over many places in UP and Madhya Pradesh.One of the famous persons belonging to the "Kanyakubja Brahmins" sect is Sri Atal Behari Vajapayeeji.
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I think the obversation the "dignity" conferred on Sani may perhaps have been be misplaced. As regards ShaneeSwaran, I presume Sani was originally called Sanischaran (slow moving or mandha-gathi) and Sanischaran got corrupted to SaneeSwaran. More knowledgeable persons would surely correct.
Secondly I feel Bruhaspathi is on an even higher plane of dignity, equivalent to Lord, if one sees the suffix "pathi" added to exalted persona like Sreepathi, umApathi, raghupathi, seethApathi, BhUpathi etc.
Thirdly, names such as Sukran, buDhan etc. are not with less respect (i.e. not being equated with he or **avan** of Tamil). In Sanskrit nouns ending with "n" were also mostly respectful such as rAjan, dEvan etc.
Janaki Jambunathan
Active member
Ravana was a multi faced personality.
Agreed he had 10 faces Any reasons or information you could gather why he had 10 faces or heads and how he had them balanced?
Agreed he had 10 faces Any reasons or information you could gather why he had 10 faces or heads and how he had them balanced?
Janaki Jambunathan
Active member
As regards ShaneeSwaran, I presume Sani was originally called Sanischaran (slow moving or mandha-gathi) and Sanischaran got corrupted to SaneeSwaran. More knowledgeable persons would surely correct.
Possible like Ravanaasura getting corrupted to Ravaneswara!
Possible like Ravanaasura getting corrupted to Ravaneswara!
renuka
Well-known member
Dear Janaki ji,
Brahmanyan Ji had written that Ravana had the mental capacity of 10 people..hence his name as the 10 headed one.
So its not that he had 10 actual heads.
Technically it is not possible for anyone to have 10 heads and only 1 heart to pump for all 10.
C
CHANDRU1849
Guest
One member in this thread said Ravana was an Asura. Therefore, we have 10 heads Asuras and 1 head human being during Rama's time.
Did Ravana only have ten head or his entire dynasty, and if not, why?
Did Ravana only have ten head or his entire dynasty, and if not, why?
renuka
Well-known member
Dear Chandru ji,
Ravana was supposed to have 10 heads.
Kumbhakarna was supposed to have had a sleeping disease and was huge like a mountain.
Surpanakha was supposed to have finger nails as big as winnowing baskets!
If we want to really believe all these stories..I can only conclude that the mother of Ravana was exposed to some high dose of radiation during all her pregnancies and gave birth to mutants!
Janaki Jambunathan
Active member
Now I understand it is symbolic graphic reprsentation of his 10 in 1 thinking capability
How about the 6 heads of Muruga or Arumuga kadavul intially 6 children by birth and rolled into one Arumugam later
renuka
Well-known member
Well...from what I read..the 6 heads represent the 5 senses and the mind.
Now there is another theory which says that Lord Muruga is supposed to be in control of the constellation of Pleiades which has 6 stars and each body/face of His represents each star in that constellation.
The constellation of Pleiades is also known as the six krittikas and hence his name as Kartikeya.
C
CHANDRU1849
Guest
renuka
Well-known member
I guess so...that is why he walked wanted to walk away with Seeta!
Dilwale Dulhania Le Jayenge!
Janaki Jambunathan
Active member
I thought he flew away in Puspak which unlike Spice Jet or Kingfisher which are grounded!
Janaki Jambunathan
Active member
Ten heads Ravana is nothing but a myth only. How can a human being have 10 heads? Did he undergo any plastic surgery?
If we still believe that a human being had ten heads, it only shows our level of maturity.
May be true for humans But it is possible in the realm of Metaphysics where it is only belief and do not & need not stand scientific or logical scrutiny! Ravana with 10 Heads & Sa(Ravana) with 6 faces (not balanced again ) exists in that realm of metaphysics - Physical laws of equilibrium are not applicable in these situation !
You will see certain things Similar between Ramayanam and Story of Sarvana
Ravanan & (Sa)Rarvan both had multiple heads one 10 and the other 6 leading to unbalanced situation
In (Sa) Ravanan the God has six and in the other the Asura Ravanan had 10 heads!
In both stories it is the Asra who was vanquished and the Gods were winners
This situation is true even today with any story Hollwood Bollywood or Kolywood. The hero is always correct and ultimately triumphs over the villian whatever may be his strength
Hero if he has any shortcomings in his character it is cosidered minor flaw and acceptable & he is to be corrected.But Villain has always to be vanquished in spite of his attibuted positive qualties for the same crime comitted by the hero. Ravana commits one of the 5 grave Sins - Hijacking anotherman's wife and was Killed. But Rama commits again one of the 5 grave sins - Killing a brahmin Ravanan and was crowned to be the King
Raji Ram
Active member
Dear Renu,
I was surprised to read this in Wiki! Read on ....
''According to the Mahābhārata, Kartikeya was born to Agni and Svāhā, after the latter impersonated six of the seven wives of
the Saptarṣi and made love to him. The Saptarshi, hearing of this incident and doubting their wives' chastity, divorced them.
These wives then became the Kṛttikā.''
To read more: Kṛttikā - Wikipedia
I was surprised to read this in Wiki! Read on ....
''According to the Mahābhārata, Kartikeya was born to Agni and Svāhā, after the latter impersonated six of the seven wives of
the Saptarṣi and made love to him. The Saptarshi, hearing of this incident and doubting their wives' chastity, divorced them.
These wives then became the Kṛttikā.''
To read more: Kṛttikā - Wikipedia
V
V.Balasubramani
Guest
Mam,
This chariot Pushpak which is reported to move on its own accord belongs to Lord Kubera, the Lord of Wealth or Lord of Riches. Hence no chance of grounding like Spice Jet or King fisher.
Janaki Jambunathan
Active member
Now I recollect Kripandavarior's reasonig regarding Soorsamharam which is a delight and not heavy to understand. like the above one
The Asuran Vanquished was Surapadman who was popularly knowm by his shortenend name Suran hence suran + samharam = surasamharam
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