Ravana is really...

[JR]

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Ravana is really 5 karmendriyas + 5 Jnanendriyas which keep a man away from god (parabrahmam) as much as possible.

Many people compare Ravana to the representation of 10 different evils of mind, Sita to be the individual soul which is miserable (experiences pain in the world) while in the grip of maya (captivity in Lanka by Ravana), and Hanuman to be the guru or perceptor sent by god (Rama) who can redeem you of your evils via a mantra (the ring of Rama given to Sita by Hanuman). The guru gives diksha to the sishya (man engripped in vices) and gives him a mantra which he uses for sadhana to redeem himself and eventually he identifies himself one with the Brahmam (Sita joining Sri Rama). The battle of Ramayana is really the hardship individual soul faces to get rid of the power of maya that has 10 facets to it.

 

[biswa]

This is good, but previously you said Ravana is a Shiva bhakta? So do you think Ravana is a concept or an actual person?

 

[JR]

I think that Ramayana really did happen, but why I think the characters are as portrayed in the ithihasa, is to educate people on the above stated concept (in the OP), IMO. The only thing that puzzles me is why Ravana chose to be a Shiva bhakta. I have no clue for this.

 

[biswa]

Good answer.

 

[indianassault]

I think that Ramayana really did happen, but why I think the characters are as portrayed in the ithihasa, is to educate people on the above stated concept (in the OP), IMO. The only thing that puzzles me is why Ravana chose to be a Shiva bhakta. I have no clue for this.

whats so puzzling about it? If he was aHari bakta, thre wold have beenno ramayna.pardon thespellings I use IE

 

[CHANDRU1849]

There are so many Ramanayanas. Which one is true. The purpose of showing Ravana as a Shiva Devotee in the politicized Ramayana was to insult Lord Shiva and his Devotees.

I was jubliant when escavation was carried out in Rama's birth place, anticipating that Rama's VIL and AMBU would be found but in vain.

 

[renuka]

I. The only thing that puzzles me is why Ravana chose to be a Shiva bhakta. I have no clue for this.

In Shiva Tandava Stotram composed by Ravana..he wishes "liberation" in one verse and cant wait for it.

Kadaa Nilimpa-Nirjharii-Nikun.ja-Kottare Vasan
Vimukta-Durmatih Sadaa Shirastham-An.jalim Vahan |
Vimukta-Lola-Locano Lalaama-Bhaala-Lagnakah
Shiveti Mantram-Uccaran-Kadaa Sukhii Bhavaamy-Aham ||13||

When will I Dwell in a Cave within the Dense Woods by the side of the River Goddess Ganga and ...
13.2: ... being Free Forever from Sinful Mental Dispositions Worship Shiva Keeping my Hands on the Forehead?
13.3: When will I be Free from the Rolling of the Eyes (signifying lustful tendencies) and Worship Shiva applying the Sacred Mark on the Forehead?
13.4: When will I be Happy Uttering the Mantras of Shiva?

Here he says he wants to be blissfully liberated uttering Mantras of Shiva but liberation came to him thru Lord Rama an avatar of Lord Vishnu.

Reason?

May be Shiva here is not taken to be literally Lord Shiva and should be taken to mean Auspicious..and Vishnu should be taken to mean all pervading instead of Lord Vishnu.

So what does it matter how liberation comes from which aspect Shiva or Vishnu when one seeks auspiciousness and the all pervading confers it.

 

[prasad1]

Ravana is really 5 karmendriyas + 5 Jnanendriyas which keep a man away from god (parabrahmam) as much as possible.

Many people compare Ravana to the representation of 10 different evils of mind, Sita to be the individual soul which is miserable (experiences pain in the world) while in the grip of maya (captivity in Lanka by Ravana), and Hanuman to be the guru or perceptor sent by god (Rama) who can redeem you of your evils via a mantra (the ring of Rama given to Sita by Hanuman). The guru gives diksha to the sishya (man engripped in vices) and gives him a mantra which he uses for sadhana to redeem himself and eventually he identifies himself one with the Brahmam (Sita joining Sri Rama). The battle of Ramayana is really the hardship individual soul faces to get rid of the power of maya that has 10 facets to it.

Thanks for admitting that story is symbolic, otherwise can you imagine the birth of this monstrosity after normal pregnancy?

 

[JR]

In Shiva Tandava Stotram composed by Ravana..he wishes "liberation" in one verse and cant wait for it.




Here he says he wants to be blissfully liberated uttering Mantras of Shiva but liberation came to him thru Lord Rama an avatar of Lord Vishnu.

Reason?

May be Shiva here is not taken to be literally Lord Shiva and should be taken to mean Auspicious..and Vishnu should be taken to mean all pervading instead of Lord Vishnu.

So what does it matter how liberation comes from which aspect Shiva or Vishnu when one seeks auspiciousness and the all pervading confers it.

Thank you for the great reply, Renuka. I was thinking along similar lines after Chandru ji's question.

 

[JR]

Thanks for admitting that story is symbolic, otherwise can you imagine the birth of this monstrosity after normal pregnancy?

 

[sarang]

Because only shiva gives boons for strength, power, victory over indra and devas, immunity from punishment and death and bogha siddhis! I can't think of any itihasic or puranic tapaswi asking vishnu boons for power and rulership over the fourteen worlds.

The only thing that puzzles me is why Ravana chose to be a Shiva bhakta. I have no clue for this.

 

[JR]

Because only shiva gives boons for strength, power, victory over indra and devas, immunity from punishment and death and bogha siddhis! I can't think of any itihasic or puranic tapaswi asking vishnu boons for power and rulership over the fourteen worlds.

^This along with Renuka ji's thoughts -- as to why Ravana is shown as a Shiva devotee and what sense it made to the symbolic story in the OP.

I think with some reflection, that when the 10 indriyas (as represented by Ravana) are engaged in contemplation of the divine (Shiva), then the divine (Rama) will send a guru (Hanuman) at the opportune moment (Sita in Lanka) to help uplift the soul. It is said, 'Shivasya hridayam vishnur, Vishnoshcha hridayam Shiva' that Shiva and vishnu comtemplate each other all the time and thus when we think of either of them, that finally emancipation and mukthi becomes inevitable either through them directly or from either of them.

There are also better explanations to the Sita/Rama tattwa someone told me long time ago. If I can find it, I will post it here.

Thank you.

 

[Jaykay767]

Ravana was not only one of the greatest Shiva devotees, he performs all the homas & yagna as a Purohitar/Priest (many may not be aware..), well versed in the 4 Vedas, and a Sanskrit Scholar as per Valmiki Ramayana !!

Ravana & all his ministers claim they are all Aryas –again as per Valmiki.. Ravana is also depicted as the author of the Ravana Sanhita, a book on Hindu astrology. Ravana was also an expert in the knowledge of Ayurveda and political science.

Incidentally, Ravana is supposedly the author of Telugu Grammar also …

Ravana’s Athma Linga which was put down by Lord Ganesha is at Gokarna & is the correct Varanasi.. (it is anyways known by all as the Dakshina Kashi) it is here Shankara spends 13 yrs writing & propounding Advaita..

In the real war, Badami = Vatapi = Lanka… The Lord Ganesha statue in Vatapi is the only one with human face, & is currently inThiruchenkaatankudi… & the Vatapi Ganapathim Baje salutes this deity!.

So the Athma Lingam worshipped by Ravana, the place where it is now established – Gokarna/Kashi, the Shiva Tandava Stotram & the Lord Ganesha found in Badami/Vatapi/Lanka are the most important places, hymns / deities ..

 

[CHANDRU1849]

In Shiva Tandava Stotram composed by Ravana..he wishes "liberation" in one verse and cant wait for it.




Here he says he wants to be blissfully liberated uttering Mantras of Shiva but liberation came to him thru Lord Rama an avatar of Lord Vishnu.

Where did he say Rama?

What is the meaning of 13.4?

 

[JR]

Dear friends,

A nice member notified me for not giving a link for reference for this thread. What I wrote here comes from memory of reading an article a long time ago, perhaps in dinamalar or elsewhere also. I don't recall where I read this info. I apologize for not having mentioned this at the forefront.

 

[JR]

I think Ravana must really be an amsa of Chandra deva. Because mind (signified by the moon) is the one that is swayed by the information processed through karmendriyas and jnanendriyas. And it is but Moon's traits to be i) Extremely handsome ii) Musical talent iii) Attraction towards the opposite sex and beauty and Ravana possessed all the 3 qualities. Therefore I wonder if Ravana is born of Chandra's amsa or has a prominent Moon in his jatakam?

 

[biswa]

JRji, the qualities below would apply to Krishna as well?

I think Ravana must really be an amsa of Chandra deva. Because mind (signified by the moon) is the one that is swayed by the information processed through karmendriyas and jnanendriyas. And it is but Moon's traits to be i) Extremely handsome ii) Musical talent iii) Attraction towards the opposite sex and beauty and Ravana possessed all the 3 qualities. Therefore I wonder if Ravana is born of Chandra's amsa or has a prominent Moon in his jatakam?

 

[JR]

JRji, the qualities below would apply to Krishna as well?

Biswa ji,

That is true! But I am thinking there is a connection b/w Ravana and Chandra deva is because of their affinity for "maatraan thottathu malligai" (LOL). (Chandra deva had an adulterous affair with Brihaspathi's wife Tara and Mercury was born to them.)

 

[renuka]

Where did he say Rama?

What is the meaning of 13.4?

he does not say Rama anywhere..I was talking about Ramayan and also Shiva Tandava stotram that may be we should not take the word Shiva as to mean Lord Shiva only.

Shiva means Auspicious and Vishnu means all pervading and Rama means the delightful one.

BTW it would be interesting to note that the word Ramesha grammatically can refer to either Lord Shiva or Lord Rama.

Ramesha---- Rama yasya iswarah sah....He whose Lord is Rama..which means the He(Rama) is the Lord of Shiva.

Ramesha---Ramasya iswarah yah sah...He who is the Lord of Rama....which means He(Shiva) is the Lord of Rama.


So going by this..there seems to be no difference whether its Lord Shiva or Lord Rama who finally liberated Ravana.

 

[CHANDRU1849]

Shiva means Auspicious and Vishnu means all pervading and Rama means the delightful one.

Hence, Shiva means two names : 1. The Lord and 2. Auspicious

BTW it would be interesting to note that the word Ramesha grammatically can refer to either Lord Shiva or Lord Rama.

If you extend the word 'Ramesha', you will get 'Rameshwaram' meaning Rama's Eashwaram, where he constructed a Temple.


Ramesha---- Rama yasya iswarah sah....He whose Lord is Rama..which means the He(Rama) is the Lord of Shiva.

Ramesha---Ramasya iswarah yah sah...He who is the Lord of Rama....which means He(Shiva) is the Lord of Rama.

The Lord of Shiva i.e. Rama constructed a Shiva Temple called Rameshwaram for Lord Shiva. To my knowledge, the Lord of Rama i.e. Lord Shiva has not constructed any temple to Lord Rama.

Per your theory, it is Shiva > Rama > Shiva and not Vishnu > Rama > Vishnu.

So going by this..there seems to be no difference whether its Lord Shiva or Lord Rama who finally liberated Ravana.

You maintain the reincarnation theory once again, to keep Vishnu in tact by saying Shiva and Rama did something. Does it have any authentication, as identification marks of Shiva and Vishnu are totally different?

The main theme of Ramayana was then the liberation of Ravana, and incidents related to aryanakanda, abduction, war etc. were only peripheries.