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Plight of elderly Indian immigrants

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S

sudeshwer

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I find number of TB forum members are from USA or on and on living there. I wish to start this debate to find different experience:

Elderly Indian Immigrants
Our children go to US Universities for higher education, at a young age of around 20. After overcoming the initial cultural sock and home sickness, they start integrating themselves with American way of life. They pick accent while talking, adopt American vocabulary, dress like American kids and so on. Within a short period, they decide that they do not want to return to India after graduation and they want to make a carrier in America.
Some other young Indians go to America on H1B visa, seeking jobs in American companies. They too go through the stages described above, but the stages are shorter and they get their bearings faster.
Parents of all these children are reconciled, thinking that their children are heading for a better life. This is what they have always strived for (better life for their children).
Once they are well anchored in their job, they marry the girl settled in America but known to them since their school or college days, or with a girl they have come across in their job or with the girl selected by their parents in India and approved by them. In most cases, girls too have a job, making the couple financially very happy. They purchase a good house and two cars and start a happy life.
They remain in touch with their parents and other friends and relatives trough e-mail, telephone and periodic visits to India. Their parents and siblings also visit America for brief period and feel very happy to see the effluence of America and living standard of their children.
The life moves on. Now they decide to have their own children. They think that if children are born in America, they will become American citizens by default. Good idea, but for a few days they will need full time help to run their house and help the new mother. Parents or parents-in-laws willingly agree to go to America for six months or so, to help them.
Now the problems start. If both parents are working, the life is very tough, for both the parents as well as children. Demanding schools with tough rules, dropping the kids to school (which is seldom in the same direction as their job), arranging with someone to pick up the kids from the school and keep them at baby sitter’s place and pick them up in the evening. Oh! It is tough job. What about cooking and helping children with their home work, both simultaneously?
Back in India, their parents are growing old. Grownup children naturally worry about them. Now that they are retired, why not they come to America and we become a nice big joint family? Good idea again. What is missing is that there is very little experience of living in joint family on both the sides. No doubt, parents have some past experience of living with their parents in a joint family, which gives them some enthusiasm of living again in joint family.
They arrive in America with lots of dream, like playing with grand children, being taken care of by son and daughter-in-law and so on. Initially they devote themselves to their grandchildren, picking them up from school and ferrying them to garden etc., and thinking they would be so happy in this country with big houses, the food, the cars, and above all son and daughter-in-law. They get impressed with big houses, two cars, lawns and well maintained trees, huge open spaces, wide clean and smooth roads, huge retail stores like Wall Mart-K Mart etc., huge malls, huge well maintained gardens and what not?

Within a short time, the reality dawn upon them. They don’t speak English and whatever little English they know is not enough to understand American accents. They do not drive, they can’t go anywhere themselves. They can only go out when their children take them out. Very few Indian TV channels are available, since they are very costly. It takes time to get acquainted with American news channels and news papers. When children are at home, they want to see cartoons, so TV is not free for you. After a long working day their son and daughter-in-law want their privacy. They discover that in the changed family dynamics older members have no voice in decision-making, whether about buying something or in any other domestic matter.
Many who have come here to join their grown children, had fulfilling lives, back home; but life in this country is not smooth on emotional terrain, they often feel that they are living under their children’s roof, not in their own house. In India there is a favourable bias toward the elders, here people think about what is convenient and inconvenient for them. They find their children have become bicultural through universities and work places.
They left familiar homes, some even though smaller in sizes, with shortage of electricity or running water; for modern houses in communities in US towns, relying on their children. They came anticipating a great deal of family togetherness. Unfortunately American society isn’t organized in a way that responds to their cultural expectations.
Young couples who need to work to support families, think grandparents are happy to do baby-sitting. There is a misguided assumption that baby-sitting is sustenance enough for the aging. They forget that aged people are also social beings. How much can they talk to their grandchildren? They need to talk to their son, their daughter-in-law and make their own friends.
In India, they would walk to the grocery store, go to next door neighbour to have tea, talk about common things like the wheat prices and so on. The visiting culture is missed by many immigrant elders. Back home anyone can knock on the door anytime, to relieve the pressure. Here nothing is similar.
Their problems go unnoticed because they often do not talk about it. The problems are very personal, and within the family. Gradually their mouths get sealed. That is why they become happy when they meet people of their age, at some public place like garden where they can open their mouth; they know that these people will understand what they say.
Is there any solution to the problems of these elderly immigrants? If you can think of one, write on some blog.
It is not necessary that my assessment of the situation is accurate. There may be several infirmities, please do not hesitate to differ or criticize.
 
Mr. Sudheswer,
Your post is very real and a very large number will agree with it. There are exceptions where the parents speak the language and can drive and lead an independent life.

Some of Us came 30 odd years ago and are the parents who will fit your description to an extent.
Fortunately in my town there is an active Indian community where these elderly parents can meet and not be bored whole day.

Some of the parents coming from India have the additional problem of health coverage. What costs INR 75 costs $75 in USA, so they feel the pinch and also the guilt that their children have to bear the cost. And if they have chronic condition or needs to be hospitalized, the financial burden causes them more pain.
 
No.2 Mr Prasad- I also live 7/8 months in a year in California. Town I live alos have a very large number of Indians; in fact, I conduct a Laughter Club doing various yogas, exercises etc daily for one hour. I started this just to engage elderly Indians who visit and also are Greencard holders so that they dont get bored.We also organize Potluck once in two months. I agree visitors have health issue
 
[h=2]Plight of elderly Indian immigrants[/h]dear sudeshwer !
you have given the correct pic of Plight of elderly Indian immigrants in every word and sentence .it is not less or exhilarated .your writing start with
Within a short time.... speaks volumes.the aged people get tired of baby sitting duty since they are not able to cope up with the active &spontaneous change of mood of the kids
the aged people food habit and instruction are not acceptable to our wards . they are got in bet two cultures.In India the small kids will have opportunity to play with neighbour house kids ,but in foreign they have to spent time with grand fa or grandma which is boredom little kids
you have also correctly pointed the avenue not avilable for ventilating our feelings
ultimately the aged people console(after all we toiled for their prosperity-is it not ?) themselves &return to their homes with prayer for their children. enkirunthalum vazhga! ,num vamsa peru vilanga vazhga !!
you gain one after loosing one. very few are fortunate to have both
guruvayurappan
 
The way of life in USA is very different than in INdia for the new immigrant. It is difficult to adjust to the change for the elderly. If the finances permit the senior citizens would be happier in India. If the reason to move to USA is financial or family then there has to be lot of sacrifice from the seniors.

If you know the condition in USA, and still need to relocate, you must find ways to entertain yourself. It would be better if you can drive, or live in a metro area as public transportation is limited. In USA 10-15 mile of commute to work or even shopping is not uncommon. The isolation except on the weekend for seniors must be expected. Fortunately with internet and cable TV you can bring any part of the world to your house.

The children should be more than happy to put up with the parents, if not for love at least for the free babysitting. It is almost impossible to find FREE Indian nanny in most part of USA.
 
hi
there is no FREE LUNCH IN AMERICA.....everything is string attached....be with family...weekend temple/community activities....
help and enjoy with nice friends in same age group......to get something....we have to lose something......a lot of temples
volunteers required....be a productive to the community....like gujarati seniors......we have local senior centre....run by
americans....its exclusively for indian seniors....they medicare/medicaid and other social progtammes.....maximum
seniors are gujarati parents...its bilingual....hindi/gujarati....not a single TB senior there....they want south indian
seniors...but our seniors like to stay with their dauther in law /son in law.....its sad...its pity....we TB never
learned volunteer spirit... but its part of american culture....
 
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I agree with the general sentiment expressed here. Sometimes we create our own environment.
My father-in-law loved people, and others reciprocated. Fortunately he was good in astrology, and people would visit him, they would bring food and make tea in our kitchen. When we will come back from work we will find 2 or 3 cars in the parking lot. Yes he too was fluent in English, Tamil, Hindi.

Similarly my sister is very social, and other people come and help her. They volunteer to take her to her appointments, and other social appointments.

Like Mr. TBS says, it is easy to have company if you are willing to share yourself.
Unfortunately some of our seniors are trapped in the house without outside contact, due to their inhibitions.
 
Sudeshwarji You have portrayed the plight of elderly immigrants lucidly and I do not think that you have exaggerated their status
.
It is true that most of the elderly people come to U.S.A. with the fond hope of leisurely spending their lives

with their children and grandchildren; some are made to look after their grandchildren and take care of the household

in case of practical impossibilities on the part of their children and their spouces returning home early. Few

elderly people make it a point to go for a stroll everyday both in the morning as well as in the evening but

the elderly ladies invariably do not join their husbands from the health point of view with the result both cannot make it.

Unlike in India, elderly people cannot get to a newspaper vendor to buy a newspaper or magazine of your choice,or a visit a hotel

or a nearby temple every day or visit a family doctor or a relation either by foot or in a taxi. These are

some of the practical difficulties being encountered by the elderly people but we have to reconcile to living

with our children in case we are very old and have no one to look after us in India or we sport debilitating health. As you rightly

say that many old people give vent to their feelings when they meet you in a park or on the roads ;some times they volunteer

to befriend you on their own.There are however many elderly immigrants spending their lives comfortably with

their children,and grandchildren; not all are a blessed lot.

pc ramabadran
 
elderly Indians are referred as IAS (Indian Aayya Service). there is no doubt about it. Very few people drive and have US DL like myself. Our Laughter Club has daily attendance of around 30 people. after the session, many sit in the park and discuss their problems; some are very pathetic. fortunately myself and my wife are comfortable in a way. My advise, if I may say so, is that, if possible, keep the Indian set-up safe so that for any reason anyone is not comfortable, they can go back. In India also, there are Senior Citizen Homes. we have not sold our properties in India; why should we? after all, after we both are not there, only my children will get them.
 
Mr.Sudheswer,

You have raised a contemporary topic and you have brought it up in a nice way. I think there is an inherent problem with South Indians, or Tamilians. They are not social, as pointed out by tbs in post 6 above. One needs to be adept to adapt (to one's circumstances).

Btw, you have mentioned in the OP, :"feel very happy to see the effluence of America". I guess you meant affluence.
 
dear friends !
the plight of senior citizen will be same if they in America or India unless they have not learned the concept of volunteer spirit as mentioned by sri .TBS.In the beginning they feel happy in taking care of their grand childs and started feeling as unpaid maid servants. many aged person in orphanage/muthior illam will not be happy if they are not adopted to voluntary works.
Complaining nature & others know little are real cause for all sadness.we have seen the life enough & let the younger generation also enjoy in their prime age must be born in mind by senior citizen.If health condition is not permitting ,they should learn to live in their home town with the financial support extended without repeatedly highlighting their illness which will mar their wards peace.
guruvayurappan
 
hi
we are more indvidualistic than as a community....take example of gujarati seniors....they are not much educated...still they like their
language gujarati and their culture....but our seniors more educated.....we have many achievements as an individual...not as
community....we never learned volunteer spirit in india....we never taught volunteer spirit to our children.....till 50 years of age..
we earned education/home/wealth/children education etc...but after 50 years of age ....we should serve for society/community....
america built on voulnteer community based life here....they volunteer in school/church/ in their early part of life...even in school/
college volunteerism important part of curriculam.....some 50 hours community service mandatory in high schools.....we do blame
others...we never learn from others.....its just another blame game of TBs....sorry to say....but its truth...its real fact too..
 
….. My advise, if I may say so, is that, if possible, keep the Indian set-up safeso that for anyreason anyone is not comfortable, they can go back. ….we have not sold ourproperties in India; why should we? after all, after we both are not there,only my children will get them.
This is indeed a very sensible recommendation.

You starter post itself is admirably candid in spelling out the prevailing situation for elders staying with their children abroad. Unless the parents have the wherewithal to stand on their own legs and perceive/enjoy a certain amount of autonomy (financial or otherwise), they will be all emotionally drained sooner or later, for all the societal factors that you had nicely spelled out (as well as discretely(!)not spelled out – such as an overbearing DIL, etc etc..).

It is indeed wise to retain a house back in India so that if things don’t work out, one can at least go back to an emotionally and socially fulfilling environment. There is nothing more socially satisfying than having a chat with the vegetable vendor bringing his wares infront of your door step, or just taking a stroll down the street to talk to the aavin milk-booth vendor!! Just to name a few.. There is always the visit to the temple around the corner for the evenings.

In particular, if both parents have gone over to stay abroad, and if by some misfortune, one of the spouses gets seriously ill and/or passes away, the other spouse will be an emotional wreck, and having a house property back home to go back to may prove to be an ultimate solace.
( vide your own posting under chit chat for freakish situations importantwarning)
 
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Although I am by no means somebody residing in USA, nor have any of my elderly relatives residing in USA, I read all the preceding posts with curiosity. These are some of my thoughts:

1. Almost all the posts are from the poster's point of view (i.e. the immigrant on whom the elderly relatives are dependent) so they may not be actually reflecting the true position of the elderly person, but perceived so by the young poster.

2. No matter where anyone's physical body resides, mind or mental life, tends to live in the past during various time intervals daily. Have you not wondered why you are attaching yourselves to the tamilbrahmins.com, though most of you have practically made up your minds to live in USA for good and have no intentions of returning back (permanently) for ever?

3. Some of the comments regarding aloofness of the elders, their complaining nature etc. were quite uncharitable comments to be made, to say the least. It is common knowledge that after the age of 45 or so, most persons become less outgoing and do not form new friendships and the new acquaintanceship, never mature into full blown friendship of the past.

4. How many of the posters can truly say that it was not them that called their parents at the first instance to be unpaid aayaa to their children?

5. Would the posters have magnanimity of their hearts to show what they have written about their elderly parents to them (the parents) and get their honest feedback?

6. Some of the posters have written about the wish of the elderly parents to live in big houses, affluence etc. Oh really?? Just ask them whether they would like to live in their palatial places without YOU being there and revert back. If you can afford palatial place in USA for them, surely you could have afforded that for them in India too, so is the large accommodation really material.

7. Much before the elderly parents joined you in USA they were speaking to you over phone or net or skype etc. They do understand that their children work like dogs from 5.00 AM to 11 PM and they keep their mouths sealed so as not to burden you with any problems, even if their daily life is hell.

8. Please do not insult the parental love (which is the reason they are living with you) and start short-charging them by mouthing their perceived short comings like non-volunteership, non-mixing up, being couch potatoes, aloof etc.

9. No wonder vanaprastha ashrama was practised in the past.
 
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Mr. Zebra,
you wrote
Almost all the posts are from the poster's point of view (i.e. the immigrant on whom the elderly relatives are dependent) so they may not be actually reflecting the true position of the elderly person, but perceived so by the young poster.

Mr. Sudheswar,
Gave his background, you seems to have missed it. He is a senior citizen. He does not have his parents living with him.

your point@2
No matter where anyone's physical body resides, mind or mental life, tends to live in the past during various time intervals daily. Have you not wondered why you are attaching yourselves to the tamilbrahmins.com, though most of you have practically made up your minds to live in USA for good and have no intentions of returning back (permanently) for ever?

The site is not for TB from India alone. You can take me out of India, but you can not take India out of me. So I am attached to India, Indian, PIO, etc. I can not afford to return to India. The culture has changed, cost of living has gone sky high. I do not have the support system (you need in India).


You do have points, but your erroneous assumptions have made it invalid.

I am a senior citizen, having migrated 35 years ago. I am not dependent on my children yet. I am vey active in the Indian community. Other seniors narrate their experiences. Mr. Sudheswar and others in this forum are educating others.

Show me one post from a young person in this thread that is disparaging the senior citizen.
Mr. Haridas Siva the young person was just interested in the information.
 
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Mr. Zebra,
you wrote


Mr. Sudheswar,
Gave his background, you seems to have missed it. He is a senior citizen. He does not have his parents living with him.

your point@2


The site is not for TB from India alone. You can take me out of India, but you can not take India out of me. So I am attached to India, Indian, PIO, etc.


You do have points, but your erroneous assumptions have made it invalid.

I am a senior citizen, having migrated 35 years ago. I am not dependent on my children yet. I am vey active in the Indian community. Other seniors narrate their experiences. Mr. Sudheswar and others in this forum are educating others.

Show me one post from a young person in this thread.

You seem to be missing the purport of my message wholesale.

1. It is not my point whether TB.com is only for TBs from India alone or not. We have had too many discussions in the recent past to have known it to be open and for everybody.

My point of bringing in TB.Com. is only to highlight that past mental associations, just do not go away because movement to newer areas and is the proof (if at all needed) that mental life at many times during the day cling to the past.

Secondly it was once again not my case that you were dependent or independent of your children. My post exhorted the readers to consider from the view-point of dependent elderly immigrants too.

Thirdly by younger person in this thread, I meant the bread-earner and whose writ runs in the family and by elder/parent etc. I meant the elderly parent who recently migrated/visited USA (who is dependent on his sponsor son/daughter in US).

If my post came as "invalid due to various erroneous assumptions" to you, so be it. I find my post to be perfectly valid even after reconsidering the same in view of your latest post.

None of the posts so far in the thread even hinted whether the bread-winner sponsor of the elderly immigrant parent could do something to make the life little bit easy for the elderly dependent, but all of them required the elders to radically change and mould themselves to the needs and aspirations of the sponsor son/ daughter.
 
None of the posts so far in the thread even hinted whether the bread-winner sponsor of the elderly immigrant parent could do something to make the life little bit easy for the elderly dependent, but all of them required the elders to radically change and mould themselves to the needs and aspirations of the sponsor son/ daughter.

For your information the writers were the elderly. Where did you get the impression that writers were complaining about their parents?
 
Mr Prasad, you are perfectly correct and right. Mr Zebra has completely missed the whole point. all contributors, rather mostly, are elders. what all I wanted to say have been said by you and others. Now it is upto Mr Zebra to accept it or not. I just want to say one thing; invariably, the young immigrants invite rather insist their parents to come over to USA to look after their children (aayya service) particularly during summer vacation. In one case (Gujarathi), the son asked, rather directed his parents to sell the Indian property and to come over to USA. The parents obliged but in a few months for some reason, the son deserted them. fortunately, a friend of the parents in Chicago took them and organized some job for a living.
 
post#15
dear zebra !
i am senior citizen and posted my views also . my children never invite us to take care of their children .they extend their invitation only to share their love . even when we say that we are of no use in their day to day activities,they get annoyed & say the main aim is to make opportunity for us to have pleasant stay with grand children .they make full insurance cover for our stay and plan the itinerary in accordance with our consent . even if they never mind out the expenditure ,it is our mind setup to calculate everything in conversion of £ or $
the problem will be during transition from one generation to second generation.
guruvayurappan
 
post#15
dear zebra !
i am senior citizen and posted my views also . my children never invite us to take care of their children .they extend their invitation only to share their love . even when we say that we are of no use in their day to day activities,they get annoyed & say the main aim is to make opportunity for us to have pleasant stay with grand children .they make full insurance cover for our stay and plan the itinerary in accordance with our consent . even if they never mind out the expenditure ,it is our mind setup to calculate everything in conversion of £ or $
the problem will be during transition from one generation to second generation.
guruvayurappan

I commend your observations. Our children invite us primarily to enable us to enjoy the company of the grandchildren.

A slight dissonance in your post, when you say: “….they make full insurance cover for our stay and plan the itinerary in accordance with our consent . even if they never mind out the expenditure , it is our mind setup to calculate everything in conversion of £ or $ the problem will be during transition from one generation to second generation.”

It would seem to suggest that such a mind setup is somehow faulty or offensive.

While the first part of the quote is the ‘leit motif’, it is a bit off the mark to say “our mind setup to calculate everything in ….$” .

In fact this mind setup is not far from that of any average middle-class senior American citizen who prefers not to subject his children with the financial burden of senior care. Paying for insurance coverage for even healthy seniors (without pre-existing medical conditions) these days is a staggeringly huge expense ( around $400 to $500 per person) , even if they have a green card. They probably have to complete 5 years of resident status, after which government-sponsored Medicare may kick in if they also satisfy age criterion. The sponsored seniors have to be extraordinarily lucky to find some gainful employment, in which case the employer may pay for insurance coverage.These days, parents of NRIs may also have to worry about the stability of their wards’ job situation abroad, so the best recommendation would probably be “don’t burn your bridges”.
 
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hi
im a senior citizen too....infact im a american citizen now...i have my house in chennai...my children are here in USA...i visit india

every year without fail.....now i feel that i can live happily in USA without any complaining here...but its impossible for me in india...

in america system works....in india money(BRIBE/corruption ) works....as common middle class is happy here.....we are living here

for our family/children in USA....in india we have to live for neighbors/relatives....its just mental happiness...
 
Agreed with the views. With regards to speaking up about the plight of the elderly expats (or migrants), one way of doing this is clearly letting the children know that a favor is being done by baby sitting. I feel most (not all) children (sons, daughters, d-i-l) take the baby sitting duty for granted. They need to be educated that things can't be taken for granted. It is not ok for them to return home to demand privacy, with no duty on their part. Whatever happened to filial piety?

Part of the blame for this situation also lies with elderly parents who readily oblige without clarifying or raising the downsides.
 
No.24 Mr Sunil K: filial piety!!! oh is it there? I wonder. let us take microscope to find out. present day world is something different than the presentday parents' world. I assert and live, to some extent, happily
 
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