Parents against marriage

[swan]

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I am interested in a girl(who is also a brahmin) , but my parents are against it since her brother married a widow and my parents say her family are outcastes now. My parents are orthodox . Is what my parents saying correct according to Hindu Dharma Shastra? Since her brother married a widow does it make them outcastes?

 

[renuka]

I am interested in a girl(who is also a brahmin) , but my parents are against it since her brother married a widow and my parents say her family are outcastes now. My parents are orthodox . Is what my parents saying correct according to Hindu Dharma Shastra? Since her brother married a widow does it make them outcastes?

Well...if a person has a daughter and she becomes a divorcee or widow and a man marries her..the man would be viewed by the girls family as a man of great values who gave a divorcee or widow a life of marriage.

BUT if its another persons daughter who is a widow or divorcee then some expect the woman to remain unmarried forever as to be within the realm of the orthodox.

I have no idea about any Dharmashastras which could be outdated for all I know..but you should be happy to be marrying into a family where the parents of the girl you like accepted a widow as their daughter in law and saw a woman as a human who deserves a 2nd chance in life to find happiness.

We as humans are animate creatures with pulsating awareness consciousness in us..we should weigh pros and cons based on our intellect and not force ourselves to just follow Shastras 24/7.

 

[krish44]

I am interested in a girl(who is also a brahmin) , but my parents are against it since her brother married a widow and my parents say her family are outcastes now. My parents are orthodox . Is what my parents saying correct according to Hindu Dharma Shastra? Since her brother married a widow does it make them outcastes?

If it were a widower with a child marries a woman of same caste no one would say a word.
If a widow marries a man it is viewed differentl
It is part of a patriarchal mindset.
Times have changed.
There is nothing in religion which prohibits you marrying the girl whose brother has married a widow.
Just put the issue aside and marry the girl.

 

[tbs]

If it were a widower with a child marries a woman of same caste no one would say a word.
If a widow marries a man it is viewed differentl
It is part of a patriarchal mindset.
Times have changed.
There is nothing in religion which prohibits you marrying the girl whose brother has married a widow.
Just put the issue aside and marry the girl.

hi

Just put the issue aside and marry the girl.

well said....go head....if u wish to marry...

 

[srajan2002]

Suggest you go ahead, I am sure your parents would eventually understand your bil and his wife. My cousin has married a widow with a child and they are happy. With all good wishes.

 

[swan]

I am interested in a girl(who is also a brahmin) , but my parents are against it since her brother married a widow and my parents say her family are outcastes now. My parents are orthodox . Is what my parents saying correct according to Hindu Dharma Shastra? Since her brother married a widow does it make them outcastes?

Thanks for the replies. I would like to know what does Dharma Shastra say in this matter, so that I can talk with my parents accordingly.

 

[ekaputra]

Thanks for the replies. I would like to know what does Dharma Shastra say in this matter, so that I can talk with my parents accordingly.

The Dharma Shastras are the creation of humans and not handed down by some omniscient Brahma. We do not (completely) know what social life was like centuries earlier when these Shastras were compiled but we know for sure that it was very different from what it is today.

Just as it is not correct to judge ancient Shastras (laws)/ beliefs by present day values, it is also not correct/ realistic to look to centuries old laws for guidance in these matters.

Rely on your own capacity to take sensible decisions and follow your conscience.

 

[KANNANS]

I do not know what Dharma Shastras say about this. But, our shastras are meant to guide people to live happily, healthy and with ethics. If this is uderstood, the question of shastra for widow marriage does not araise. However, you should convince your parents either by yourself or through other elders in the family and marry the girl whom you are in love with. All the best to you and your future wife. God bless you.

 

[Mani_Chennai]

I am interested in a girl(who is also a brahmin) , but my parents are against it since her brother married a widow and my parents say her family are outcastes now. My parents are orthodox . Is what my parents saying correct according to Hindu Dharma Shastra? Since her brother married a widow does it make them outcastes?

Historically Brahman families were small groups in villages and travel was very difficult..Also due to many diseases when a man dies, the whole family wanted to swindle the lady irrespective of the children involved. About 25% of the families it was not done. Being patriarchal society, this has continued for a long time. Also, due to a lightly higher ration of females to male : 50 % male: 51% female", these small groups were afraid that if these so called widows remarry then the young girls would not find a suitable male (husband). Sathi (forcing wife to die with husband ) was prevalent till Rajaram Mohan Roy with the help of British stopped the sathi .In other communities, when a person dies in war, the king did not want to support the family, thus allowed the younger brother to marry them. In North India that is why Devar (younger brother-in-law) is held in high regard even now. Since Brahmans did not go to war to fight, they themselves made this social system (the kings never interfered in their affairs). They forcefully shaved the head of the unfortunate girls but men sneakily wanted to have affair with them. Hypocrisy to the core was present. So, tell you parents (if you are financially independent) and they don't have huge estate, to get lost. Loving a person is a God given blessings and thus should marry the girl. Will I do it, sure if she is my soul mate. Cultural Anthropology will show that selfish society make their own rules if no one stops them. The accountability also evolved like that. I have seen the same punishment of widows in other castes and used to fell sad but could not fight because those clans were ready to murder you. So, there is no Sastra or rule in Dharma. It only tells you how to get salvation.

 

[mramnathji]

If you both are agreed mutually, then where is the question of leaving her because of your parents? Is that a way of escaping and deceiving the girl? It is considered more sin to hurt a girl and that papa karma will last long for thalaimurais. Don't do that papam. These days getting a brahmin girl for marriage itself is great difficult, please proceed with the marriage and bow your parents by explaining the situation. Please don't obtain suggestions.

 

[prasad1]

If you both are agreed mutually, then where is the question of leaving her because of your parents? Is that a way of escaping and deceiving the girl? It is considered more sin to hurt a girl and that papa karma will last long for thalaimurais. Don't do that papam. These days getting a brahmin girl for marriage itself is great difficult, please proceed with the marriage and bow your parents by explaining the situation. Please don't obtain suggestions.

I like this reply.
But you are too polite.
A person who is so unsure should not marry/ The girl would be better off with any other option. A man who is incapable of making a decision like marrying a girl with whom he has had a relationship is not worth sharing life.
Please set the girl free so she can have a life, without a burden like this person. Because in life there are many more decisions than marriage. I bet this person can not live a happy life.

Mr. Swan, have a backbone and stand up or leave the field and be a mama's boy.

 

[srivatsan2]

I am interested in a girl(who is also a brahmin) , but my parents are against it since her brother married a widow and my parents say her family are outcastes now. My parents are orthodox . Is what my parents saying correct according to Hindu Dharma Shastra? Since her brother married a widow does it make them outcastes?

Brother, except very few rituals later like mottai/pori during marriage will not impact your way of orthodox I think. After you get married gothra changes, you should not have any problem.
You will have to convince your parents at any way and give them sometime to think about. Moving against your parents wish will hinder your peace of life in future and acceptance. Anyway you are now because of them. God bless and post a happy message soon.

 

[a-TB]

I am interested in a girl(who is also a brahmin) , but my parents are against it since her brother married a widow and my parents say her family are outcastes now. My parents are orthodox . Is what my parents saying correct according to Hindu Dharma Shastra? Since her brother married a widow does it make them outcastes?

Caste is not part of Hindu teaching but part of its belief and it arises out of petty thinking of human mind. It is a curse on the entire world.

Now it is unclear if your parents have studied any Dharma Sastra. The onus is on them to show proof of their narrow minded thinking. They will not be able to show any credible reference to support their views.

It then comes to superstitions and wanting to possess and dominate you which is part of their conditioning.

I applaud you to ensure that you don’t alienate your parents while wanting to marry a girl of your choice. But you have to have backbone to stand up to nonsense and call it fir what it is. Ask them to show proof for their beliefs. You don’t need to give any other thing.

No logic will change their mind. Not clear how much you are influenced by their thinking. The fact that this girl is a Brahmin is irrelevant. Is she someone of good character ? And you both like each other ? That is all that matters

Your parent-generation out of wrong beliefs used ultra sound technology to kill baby girl fetuses. As a result there are less number of girls in the pool. You are lucky a girl is willing to marry you. Tell that to your parents that if they oppose they will be committing you to a life of a frustrated bachelorhood. Is that what they want ?

Their narrow minded beliefs cannot be fixed. They should stop interfering and should adopt life of vansprastha. That is the dharma.

From little Gita I have studied and followed some discussions here and elsewhere everyone claiming as Brahmana are all Sudras per Gita definition which is not based on birth. With the kind of thinking of your parents are exhibiting they are already outcastes. So it will only be a marriage of two outcaste families. Though girl side may not be if they do not show narrow minded thinking

You can be firm and if you lack the backbone you do not deserve to get married

With all this said Hope it all works out for you

Best

PS. Reply. My post is purposefully provocative to make you think

 

[renuka]

Its really nice of you to share your story with everyone.

Stay blessed.

 

[Rudra_Maha]

I am interested in a girl(who is also a brahmin) , but my parents are against it since her brother married a widow and my parents say her family are outcastes now. My parents are orthodox . Is what my parents saying correct according to Hindu Dharma Shastra? Since her brother married a widow does it make them outcastes?

Hi Swan,

Perhaps its too late to comment, but let me add my suggestions:

The fact that your parents are orthodox makes the matter more easier for your marriage to occur. Your parents may not listen to you. But they will listen to a spiritually advanced person: like a guru.

All you've got to do is take your parents to a guru(who is well versed in the Shastras and Dharma, say like Sankaracharyas or someone trained under their tutelage). There are enough provisions within the Shastric fold which would enable the marriage. The Guru would be able to guide you much better in terms of the rituals involved in such a situation.

I know of one divorcee couple who underwent a traditional marriage. The rituals were a bit different, but the person leading the event was a leading pandit, hence there was'nt much to worry. All things went smooth. After looking that, yours is an easy breezy case. No worries, your parents are justified in their fear of transgressing the Shastras. They're the only ones who'll really want the best of both worlds for you. That's why this small hiccup.

Its a great opportunity now, for you and for your parents to go back to the Shastras, touchbase with scholars and get a deep understanding of our smritis and sruthis. Stop worrying and Thank your parents and your fiance for putting you in a situation like this. If not for them, you wouldnt be bothered about the Shastras and traditions.

Also, never mind provocative statements from people asking you to grow a spine or what else?...the fact that you are asking this question itself shows that your parents have bought you up with a sense of tradition. Be proud of them, unlike boomers who ask you to forget that you're brahmin, you're a human, you belong to the planet...blah blah all liberal nonsense!!sigh..... Get to learn the Shastras in its pure form from its gurus and not from some random accounts on the internet(incl me ). Pls!. I believe not many or none here are any super scholars in the shastras. Hence, such subtle question will only elicit secular/politically correct answers. Answers will look very modern and goody goody, but will never be satisfying personally.

Convincing your traditional parents is anyday easier than convincing the boomers. Today, they'll say nothing wrong in transgressing shastras/traditions, then nothing wrong in intercaste, then nothing wrong in interreligions, then nothing wrong in bestiality..keeps on flying waywardly whereas your parents are rooted and fixed.

In the End, simple solution: talk to a renowned guru, get the suggestions and go ahead. May you be blessed with the best of both Laukeeka and Vaideega life. Wishing an advance happy married life!!.

 

[sravna]

Your decision should always be a balanced one. There would be many with so called modern thinking who would simply advise you to go ahead. In my view it should be half your interest and half the rest of society in this case reflected in your parents decision. If you are fully committed and convinced you are doing the right thing then half of the problem is solved. Then all you have to do is to consult the right people on shastras and if they favour you convince your parents.

If not it just depends what would make you feel righteous. Whether complying with your parents decision or going ahead with your decision. Your unique personal circumstances should decide that.

 

[renuka]

Your decision should always be a balanced one. There would be many with so called modern thinking who would simply advise you to go ahead. In my view it should be half your interest and half the rest of society in this case reflected in your parents decision. If you are fully committed and convinced you are doing the right thing then half of the problem is solved. Then all you have to do is to consult the right people on shastras and if they favour you convince your parents.

If not it just depends what would make you feel righteous. Whether complying with your parents decision or going ahead with your decision. Your unique personal circumstances should decide that.

At the same time parents too should realize that they are getting older and learn to let go of some fear.

As we age, we realize we should live in the present and lead the life without fear of " what will others think?"

Whose life are we leading?
Ours or someone elses?

May be in this case the parents actually might be totally fine with the marriage but they are saying no out of fear of pressure from the community.

So no need to refer to any Dharma Shastras here..just ask one own's self.
" Have I lived without fear of others opinion?"

The answer would either bind one's self or set one free!

 

[Mani_Chennai]

The person has not specified (1) Qualified to earn be independent (2) Is willing to take care when she will be pregnant without depending on any one ( I was, I knew to make the Soth India Marudu for a new mother, I cooked and ate the same Pathiyam chappadu, I did not send her to her parents etc.). But the only thing I missed to recognize Postpartum depression and she needed her mother or my mother. That was a lesson); (3) You love the girl and is the girl without baggages? (4) Is she qualifed to be economically independent when necessary (5) Does the girl love her father or mother or a narcissist? (5) Do you have really have a close friend to share your feelings (6) Are both of you in good health without any inherent diseases? (7) Do you have savings for rainy season. So, if the answers (some you get from a Psychiarist - does not mean you are a mental case, but to realize your +s and -s to be in a life long relation- then tell them that you will marry her and disown them. Ifr you need any kind of help from your parents, they win.

 

[Mani_Chennai]

Educating parents from the previous generation is difficult. Inherent fear of hell (imaginary one, no one had come and shared their experience!), curse on family and an array of folk believes prevent many to change their views and attitudes. Also, their deep rooted mental suffering and stress make them afraid of the future. The cling to their material and mental possessions. They may recite Sundragantam yet be unsocial (a grand father of my friend was meticulous in chanting Sundara Kantam daily, but swindled his own daughter as had decided to retire at the age of 55 even though he was good as a book keeper and was in demand). This mentality is not the properties of only Brahmans, I have seen this in Pillais, Mudaliars, Konars, Nadars, harijans etc., ( their children were my class mate).



So, while food and religious concerns, daily rituals etc., may be genuine but other fears may be baseless such as others are impure and dirty, they will be always smelly etc., and no one wants take chances. They may worship Yadava Krishana, Shaktriya Rama as Gods, but not accept brides from those castes (or communities). Many told me that they obseve a ceremony for dead women when married as “Mangali Pendugal” and are afraid the girls from other castes can not participate in this which will become a curse on the family. That is why less than 1% of marriage outside the caste and social strata is successful. The children do need the grand parents, which can not be given if a boy or girl decide against their norms.



In cities this is slowly dissolving due to economic, housing and health pressures, but nothing is changing in villages. Murder is prevalent in other castes, by Brahmans simply outcast their children when they are economically safe. Arguments here can not help any one. Individual boys and girls have to patiently analyze the pros and cons of their decision taking into account that their marriage not only affects them, but also future generations – children. If both the boys and girls are from manual labor families nothing will bother them, since their children in general, also will be laborers and even with quota (which goes to the most corrupt creamy layer ones).

I know a Fernadas (Nadar from Tutucorin side) who made sure that his three daughters got married to Iyer boys and took care of all their needs. He said to me, I have money thus I can take care of my daughters’ need, but I want brain which I would like to get from good Brahmin boys (not from Archakas, Prohits etc.,families but from highly qualified Professionals). I have hired a Brahman lady to teach them all things about Brahman family. I met two of his daughter’s family settled in Mumbai and they are happy. So, money and power too play a part in outside marriages. Even IAS and other officers do not have in general, inter-caste marriages. Change will take a very very long time.

 

[krish44]

Many non brahmin girls unwittingly get into brahmin families due to 'love marriage: and undergo lot of suffering due to their indifference and subtle discrimination.The puritanical ways hurt all entering their families thru marriage to their kit and kin. Staying away from them is the best option for NB girls

 

[krish44]

Even brahmin girls suffer getting married to brahmin boys. Many would prefer NB boys who would like to marry them and be treated like queens . They cater to all their wishes and exhibit them like tropies won.As a consequence brahmin boys are not getting brahmin girls for marriage

 

[Mani_Chennai]

When hormone surge is there, when the girl is not matured in her frontal cortex (decision maling, planning..) they will fall in love with any one who shows concerns for them. It is after the marriage and with a child, all hell will be loose. Exceptions are about 5%. Nonbraman girls have to totally change to adopt to the Brahman way of life, rituals etc., which is unfortunately can not be avoided. Meat eaters will have more trouble. Cooking without too much Garlic is another problem. But, after a long time there will be equality in the next generation. Brahmin girls adopt and tolerate some nonsense, but control the husbands. Such husbands are usually white foreingers who value women. There is nothing wrong or right about marrying other castes but the price will be higher than if a normal average marriage between two from the same caste. We are not yet reeady and economic pressures will bring about the changes.

 

[krish44]

Well articulated.
Karnataka minister has opined that most modern educated ladies prefer to remain single ;stay away from parents and not raise kids.
Feminists are up in arms against him
It brings us to the issue what do women want.
Only they know .

 

[krish44]

We of last generation are lucky.
Our women were submissive raised families managed both career and home put less demands on menfolk.
Many were with sacrificial mindset .
TIimes have changed. The need for women to have a more equal relationship with menfolk is putting a lot of pressure on men.
Status of men have got reduced a lot and many have ended as kitchen utencil cleaners and baby sitters when women pursue their career goals aggressively.
Manyy women have become CEO of companies and hold other top positions in MNCs
Women have preferance for whitemen who give them more personal space.
Some would like to run away to the west and US and lead a better life .
India is no longer a good place for working career women

 

[krish44]

Caste and religion issues continue to harm women who choose their own mate based on their own preferances .
Families and near relations harm them and prevent them from exercising their freedom of choice.
India is no longer a place for self willed educated modern women.
We may be a shade better than neighbouring countries as we enjoy a measure of freedom and rights to exercise our choice.But there is a risk of harm from near and dear relatives.
Those high on social status get away but for others freedom is only a myth.