On Being A Brahmin

[renuka]

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Typo

think for anyone its about doing the Dharma of their Varna and living up to ......

 

[prasad1]

Dont we humans have a built in mechanism that tells us " hey dont feel too proud of anything..everything is subject to change?"

NO.
In the animal world, it is a dog-eat-dog world, humans are no different.
It is the culture and upbringing that brings in the Value system.
It is the knowledge that makes us humble.

 

[renuka]

NO.
In the animal world, it is a dog-eat-dog world, humans are no different.
It is the culture and upbringing that brings in the Value system.
It is the knowledge that makes us humble.

Really?

I feel everyone has humbleness within ourselves but it takes great courage to be reveal it.

 

[renuka]

Typo...it takes great courage to reveal it.


I wish there was an edit option.

 

[krish44]

We should have an edit option as most of us directly post our threads.

Many times mistakes escape our attention.

Editing is complicated,

Many times I simply let it stay as it is consoling myself that we are not writing literary classics .

Mostly most do not read critically so,these minor faults are not noticed

 

[krish44]

Women of india have asserted themselves and voted in large numbers rising above caste preferances.in

bihar,other backward states of north

Mandal politics started by V P Singh in 89-90 has run its course and now assertive women encouraged by the

prohibition policy in bihar have destroyed RJD and other such parties banking on obc and dalits.

Now brahmins encouraged by reservation based on economic criterion will help them to get oppurtunities in

education and jobs based on their merit.

 

[KRN]

The entire discussion on being Brahmin has always been a polarised debate and hence needs a balanced perspective.

My limited point is, feeling superior perse is not an issue (in response to OP, so definitely not suggesting that we should all now feel superior either due to birth or accomplishments) many communities do...Parsees, mudaliyars, etc..but that should NOT lead to boasting or insulting or being insensitive or putting down other communities directly or indirectly.

Going to the other extreme, of Brahmins giving up the culture and traditions to merge with the larger group is not correct, it will lead to loss of historic heritage and traditions.

On the other hand, my view has been that everyone should adopt TB culture which is part of Hinduism anyways, and this will surely eliminate the casteism, superiority complex, etc.. in due course. Sanskrit should be taught in all school in india etc..

If the larger Tamil or Indian community say, learns Carnatic music and Bharatanatyam, the exclusivity will go away, and the perceived or otherwise, superiority complex. Same with Sanskrit language, Advaitam, Upanishads, vedantam, etc.

On a lighter note, renukaji's strong opposition led me to postpone the discussion, that too in this charged political environment. LOL.

Intact, Renukaji is an excellent example, she is a Sanskrit teacher and knows better than most Brahmins !!!!

Even though I differ with Jaykay ji on his political views, his posts on other topics, like the above, are very interesting. Jaykay ji, hope you will return soon and share more posts like this (but, a humble suggestion, please minimize political posts )

 

[KRN]

We should have an edit option as most of us directly post our threads.

Many times mistakes escape our attention.

Editing is complicated,

Many times I simply let it stay as it is consoling myself that we are not writing literary classics .

Mostly most do not read critically so,these minor faults are not noticed

Now that the edit option is back, the expectation from each one of us is zero typos and "perfect" posts

 

[KRN]

Read any sahasranamam..in the 1000 expressions of God..Pride is not one of them.

Renukaji,

Though I agree 100℅ with your sentiments expressed in the post, I would still like to bring something to your attention.

In the Vishnu Sahasranama there is a stanza

darpaha darpado drpto durdharo'tha aparajitah || 76

 

[KRN]

Renukaji,

Though I agree 100℅ with your sentiments expressed in the post, I would still like to bring something to your attention.

In the Vishnu Sahasranama there is a stanza

darpaha darpado drpto durdharo'tha aparajitah || 76

And a similar one in the Shiva Sahasranama (Shiva Purana) - thanks to Google Mahashayah ------>

darpahA darpado dRRiptaH sarvArthaparivartakaH || 113||

 

[prasad1]

Just because it is in Sanskrit. must it be authentic?
Can one not write jibberish in Sanskrit or Latin?
Pardon me, No insult meant for any Prayer.
This is in Chit Chat section.

Going back to the thread Topic, just because I am a Brahmin, I do not have to follow any practice blindly.
Actually being a Brahmin (!) I must not follow anything blindly. I should question everything and understand it perfectly before preaching it.

 

[KRN]

Just because it is in Sanskrit. must it be authentic?
Can one not write jibberish in Sanskrit or Latin?
Pardon me, No insult meant for any Prayer.
This is in Chit Chat section.

Sure, if you don't know Sanskrit, the quote from Sahasranama might seem gibberish to you. But any reason for doubting it's authenticity?

 

[KRN]

Going back to the thread Topic, just because I am a Brahmin, I do not have to follow any practice blindly.
Actually being a Brahmin (!) I must not follow anything blindly. I should question everything and understand it perfectly before preaching it.

But most of the Brahmin practices are in Sanskrit language which appears gibberish to you. So either you have to blindly follow the practice, or blindly trust someone's translation of these stuff into a language you know, or blindly attend to someone willing to teach you the Sanskrit language as per their knowledge, inclination and your receptivity, or just blindly not follow any of these practices and continue to call yourself a Brahmin. Am curious which one of these choices you are going to adopt, or probably anything else that I missed here?

 

[prasad1]

Sure, if you don't know Sanskrit, the quote from Sahasranama might seem gibberish to you. But any reason for doubting it's authenticity?

As usual, you go on a tangent. Did I say I do not understand Sanskrit?
I studied it and learned my mantra using that language. But If I write gibberish in Sanskrit does it have to make sense?

 

[prasad1]

But most of the Brahmin practices are in Sanskrit language which appears gibberish to you. So either you have to blindly follow the practice, or blindly trust someone's translation of these stuff into a language you know, or blindly attend to someone willing to teach you the Sanskrit language as per their knowledge, inclination and your receptivity, or just blindly not follow any of these practices and continue to call yourself a Brahmin. Am curious which one of these choices you are going to adopt, or probably anything else that I missed here?

Do not have to attack the person writing the post.
Language is not gibberish, but you can write gibberish in any language.
Then again that may be difficult for you to understand, (because of....).

 

[prasad1]

Some of the members here are so insecure, that they have to prove they are Brahmins.
The proof is only hearsay.
Some others are comfortable as they are.

Virtues more important than rituals
A [Brahmin] man who has performed the forty sacramental rites, but lacks eight virtues does not obtain union with or residence in the same world as Brahman. A man who may have performed just some rites, but possesses these eight virtues, on the other hand, does.
—Gautama Dharmasutra 9.24–9.25

 

[prasad1]

But most of the Brahmin practices are in Sanskrit language which appears gibberish to you. So either you have to blindly follow the practice, or blindly trust someone's translation of these stuff into a language you know, or blindly attend to someone willing to teach you the Sanskrit language as per their knowledge, inclination and your receptivity, or just blindly not follow any of these practices and continue to call yourself a Brahmin. Am curious which one of these choices you are going to adopt, or probably anything else that I missed here?

When they were doling out brains you missed the class, when they were talking about controlling your ego, you were absent.
To assume that you can teach someone something is a stretch.
I follow my own path, thanks for the unsolicited advice, please keep it for yourself.
Is it the Braminatwa or ego claiming your superiority?

 

[KRN]

As usual, you go on a tangent. Did I say I do not understand Sanskrit?
I studied it and learned my mantra using that language. But If I write gibberish in Sanskrit does it have to make sense?

You are mistaken. I was sharing a pretty straight forward quotation from Sahasranama in Sanskrit with Madame renuka when you suddenly butt in with your comments about writing gibberish in Sanskrit and its not being authentic and all that. The least that you could have done is to clarify your statement, which is surprising to say the least, because the Sahasranama is simply a collection of names in praise of the lord, with no requirement of syntax or grammar. If you have studied Sanskrit, the meaning of many of the names would be self evident and the rest you can learn by perusing a Sanskrit dictionary. If such a collection of names should appear gibberish to a person, the only conclusion is that he is unaware of even the basics of Sanskrit language.

 

[KRN]

I follow my own path, thanks for the unsolicited advice, please keep it for yourself.
Is it the Braminatwa or ego claiming your superiority?

It seems like you have not read my post carefully. I have not offered any advice there. I have listed some possibilities, and asked you a question. My point is, it is all too easy to say "I don't blindly follow any practices" but it is virtually impossible not to blindly adhere to something or the other. For example, if a person says "I don't follow any Brahmin practices, but I am still a Brahmin", he is simply blindly following a belief that since his parents have told him they are Brahmins, in lieu of his relationship with them, he would remain a Brahmin until his death. There is no harm in that belief, but that is a blind belief all the same.

Is it the Braminatwa or ego claiming your superiority?

I have not written anything about Brahminatwa (whatever that means) or on my superiority. Your above statement appears gibberish to me. Care to clarify a bit?

 

[KRN]

When they were doling out brains you missed the class, when they were talking about controlling your ego, you were absent.
To assume that you can teach someone something is a stretch.

This looks like an unprovoked personal attack on me. Care to explain the last line a bit?

 

[a-TB]

Mr KRN,

My sincere suggestion is not to engage with anyone who does not know how to debate and has difficulty expressing a few cogent ideas other than put out personal insults.

Such *repeated* insults in posts go against the norm and the rules of the forum. It is not just disrespect to the members but to the effort went into creating this forum environement.

We are like guests here using the services provided. The least we can do is to abide by the minimal requirements and guidelines. But someone has to respect themselves to respect such guidelines.
.

With that said it looks like you have picked two or three of the 1000 names of Lord Vishnu to make your point. I asked someone about that line and it is something like Lord is the giver or pride and taker of pride??

 

[KRN]

Mr KRN,

My sincere suggestion is not to engage with anyone who does not know how to debate and has difficulty expressing a few cogent ideas other than put out personal insults.

Such *repeated* insults in posts go against the norm and the rules of the forum. It is not just disrespect to the members but to the effort went into creating this forum environement.

We are like guests here using the services provided. The least we can do is to abide by the minimal requirements and guidelines. But someone has to respect himself to respect such guidelines.

Thank you Sir. You have given me similar advice in the past, which I gratefully accepted then. But sometimes one forgets, and in this situation this person made some remarks (not authentic, gibberish) that I did not want to ignore. However I accept your advice once again and will follow the same in future.

 

[KRN]

With that said it looks like you have picked two or three of the 1000 names of Lord Vishnu to make your point. I asked someone about that line and it is something like Lord is the giver or pride and taker of pride??

Yes.
Darpaha - One who takes away the pride of others
Darpado - One who gives pride to others
Driptah - One who is filled with pride

These are epithets used for the Lord in both the Vishnu / Siva Sahasranamas.

I find it interesting because in Hinduism we associate the Lord not only with the so-called "good" qualities, sometimes with the "not-so-good" ones too. In the Rudram, similarly, you will find epithets like "I bow to that leader of Robbers" ? Of course, innovative Bhashyakaras will find various new meanings in these texts.

Anyway,I thought of posting this, just as a matter of curiosity, in response to the last line in madam renuka's post # 25.

 

[a-TB]

Yes.
Darpaha - One who takes away the pride of others
Darpado - One who gives pride to others
Driptah - One who is filled with pride

These are epithets used for the Lord in both the Vishnu / Siva Sahasranamas.

I find it interesting because in Hinduism we associate the Lord not only with the so-called "good" qualities, sometimes with the "not-so-good" ones too. In the Rudram, similarly, you will find epithets like "I bow to that leader of Robbers" ? Of course, innovative Bhashyakaras will find various new meanings in these texts.

Anyway,I thought of posting this, just as a matter of curiosity, in response to the last line in madam renuka's post # 25.

Thanks for the explanation, Mr KRN

I thought there was a prior discussion about Lord being associated with this good and bad traits. Then I looked up your debate with Mr tks and I thought he had refuted that view of yours fully (though I claim I did not understand all the details). In fact in the same thread (Bhajagovindam) there was also mention of a proper way to understand this phrase 'leader of the robbers'. To me it seemed proper because it fits with overall theme from the best I can understand.

Anyway I like content oriented debates and discussions rather than opinions plastered across mindlessly with copy and paste tools from possibly unreliable sources

 

[KRN]

Thanks for the explanation, Mr KRN

I thought there was a prior discussion about Lord being associated with this good and bad traits. Then I looked up your debate with Mr tks and I thought he had refuted that view of yours fully (though I claim I did not understand all the details). In fact in the same thread (Bhajagovindam) there was also mention of a proper way to understand this phrase 'leader of the robbers'. To me it seemed proper because it fits with overall theme from the best I can understand.

I have not seen here any prior discussion on the Lord with positive vs negative qualities. As you know, I have been an occasional visitor here, until recently. If you can share any links, I will be glad to go thru.

Regarding the conversation I had with Sri tks, it had nothing to do with the Lord having positive vs negative qualities. if I remember correctly, he was stating that Adi Sankara would not have used words like Moodha in his works - so I produced quotations from his works, including the Mandukya Karika and the Brahma Sutra Bhashyam. He wrote a copious reply but only partially touching on my points (and totally ignoring the quote I provided from Brahmasutra Bhashyam) which seemed rambling and all about his personal interpretation of Advaita. Also he attributed the "staged evolution" to moksha via "Saguna Brahman" to me, which made me realize that he has perhaps not gone through the Brahma Sutra Bhashyam at all. Then there is no point in debating further, and as I understand, that particular section is not for debates. So I said goodbye and left the conversation then and there. I have no issue with him (or anyone else) producing their personal interpretation of Advaita or of Hinduism. But as far as Sankaracharya's Advaita is concerned, his Brahma Sutra Bhashyam is the cornerstone and not works like Bhaja Govindam which are of doubtful authorship eventhough great in their own way. I have not been following that thread afterwards.

Anyway I like content oriented debates and discussions rather than opinions plastered across mindlessly with copy and paste tools from possibly unreliable sources

I totally agree with you there.