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On Being A Brahmin

krish44

Gold Member
Gold Member
I claim to be a secular brahmin. I have no faith in religeous rituals practised nor I have a thread. I did not have a thread

ceremony.

Yet Internally I have a feeling of superiority as I belong to this class due to birth in a brahmin family.

The deep rooted feelings of superiority makes me rate people based on their caste .

I am not in any profession associated with my caste.Then there are many who go to veda pathshalaas and engage in

service

of God in temples besides helping other folks to perform rituals.But if one engages them one would discover that they

would not like their children to take up their profession.

When any of my extended family children marry out of caste or religion , I may not hotly oppose but I would not

encourage either.The response is likely to be muted . Internally I would thank my stars that my children did not do the

same.

It is paradoxical. - Claiming to be secular, saying that we believe in equality of caste and religion . Yet internally secular

brahmins are as much casteist as the traditional brahmins. I presume that other caste girls when they get into our families

through marriage , They are treated as outsiders barging in and they have to perform extra hard learning our way of life

to

fit into our families.

Secular brahmins are more difficult to deal with than conventional ones as they have a dual personality. They pose as

those believing in caste and religion equality and their actions show them to be the exact opposite. Lol
 

krish44

Gold Member
Gold Member
I claim to be a secular brahmin. I have no faith in religeous rituals practised nor I have a thread. I did not have a thread

ceremony.

Yet Internally I have a feeling of superiority as I belong to this class due to birth in a brahmin family.

The deep rooted feelings of superiority makes me rate people based on their caste .

I am not in any profession associated with my caste.Then there are many who go to veda pathshalaas and engage in

service

of God in temples besides helping other folks to perform rituals.But if one engages them one would discover that they

would not like their children to take up their profession.

When any of my extended family children marry out of caste or religion , I may not hotly oppose but I would not

encourage either.The response is likely to be muted . Internally I would thank my stars that my children did not do the

same.

It is paradoxical. - Claiming to be secular, saying that we believe in equality of caste and religion . Yet internally secular

brahmins are as much casteist as the traditional brahmins. I presume that other caste girls when they get into our families

through marriage , They are treated as outsiders barging in and they have to perform extra hard learning our way of life

to

fit into our families.

Secular brahmins are more difficult to deal with than conventional ones as they have a dual personality. They pose as

those not believing in caste and religion equality and their actions show them to be the exact opposite. Lol

Are there many of us like this?

It should be difficult for other castes and community to understand us.

Many look at us with awe and wish they belonged to this group.

Our caste identity makes us a rare species still struggling to come to terms with present modern way of

living.

Our children find it tough to understand the contradictions which have crept into our personalities due to

economic changes making us into desert our religious make up and engage in service class professions in

Govt and MNCs
 

prasad1

Gold Member
Gold Member
Human beings are hypocrites. Actually, we are complicated. We change with time but at the same time cry about the past.

The secular people are no better or worse.
We are Indians.
 
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Vaagmi

Well-known member
Whether one wears a thread or not is in the periphery.

But if one eats beef/mutton/pork it may not be the same.

Leaving that aside, I know I am sharper in a given situation when compared to my friend who has the same background of education and lifestyle as I happen to be a brahmin. There is no other reason that I can find for this advantage. When analysing a problem I visualize the task going down to the logic gate level while my friend and his friend and my another friend are unable to do that. I thank my genes and God for that.
Being aware of one's own superior abilities is not a crime. That is just being truthful to a given situation.
Only when I extend the logic to the next level and say I am superior to others, all problems kick in. The assumed superiority immediately translates itself into a dozen other obnoxious attitudes and actions. I am smart and intelligent enough to understand that superior abilities are just a given fact like iron being harder than rubber which is flexible. Iron is neither superior nor rubber inferior at the substance level. They are just two substances. But yes they are superior and inferior at the usage/utility level.

In the battle front when pinned down by superior enemy fire, a Sardarji may suddenly standup shouting Satsri Akal and fire his machine gun in a long burst killing every enemy and silence the enemy fire from a vantage position. In the process he may get hurt also. I as a brahmin may never get that kind of courage. He and I are wired differently and it is just a fact.

If I judge that Sardarjis are all foolhardy and brahmins are are very calculating and so the later is superior to former, I would certainly wrong.

Creation is not about everything being equal in every aspect of creation. It is all about about variety and diversity. But everyone has an equal claim when it comes to the nature and its wealth as given by God.

I am a brahmin and I am quite aware of this and my actions are dictated by this awareness. I also know that I will be hated and disliked in the name of my caste for every manifestation of my superior natural self in my daily living in this world. I am aware also that it is a burden that every brahmin has to carry. Well, I am used to it and it does not hurt me anymore because I and my likes have found ways to live with this hostility, survive and lead a successful life in this country or elsewhere.

If I am going to have another janma, I would still like to be born a brahmin. LOL.
 

prasad1

Gold Member
Gold Member
Even a pseudo brahmin who drinks Alcoholic drinks and has ego tp boot. And still claims the superiority on the basis of accidental birth, some how is phony and reeks of arrogance. Misplaced.
 

krish44

Gold Member
Gold Member
At last a die hard brahmin is waking up from slumber and is provoked enough to respond.

Of late the regular members are not posting.

I expect to see more responses from members.

Let us hear more .

It would be an escape from national elections still dragging on.
 

Vaagmi

Well-known member
At last a die hard brahmin is waking up from slumber and is provoked enough to respond.

Of late the regular members are not posting.

I expect to see more responses from members.

Let us hear more .

It would be an escape from national elections still dragging on.
Hi Krish,

This trivialising is certainly a hit below the belt.

Am I a die hard brahmin? Well, you do not know me adequately.

If we ever meet, you may change your views and even apologise unlike Bappu who needed the prodding by Supreme Court. LOL.
 

krish44

Gold Member
Gold Member
Sorry Vaagmiji

I know you only through your very interesting posts.

You might be a totally different person in real avathar.

It was not my intent to hurt.

You know me enough to realise that.

Pl keep posting. We miss you
 

krish44

Gold Member
Gold Member
Brahmins are in a trap of their own making.

Due to their upbringing , they are made to believe they are superior beings not suitable for enterpreneurship

and should confine

themselves to being wage earners for businessmen belonging to other castes.

They would rather be CEO of multinational or occupy exalted position in govt offices earning close to nothing

They become humans having low risk taking capability.

They park their money in savings deposits and FDs earning interest which are a pittance.

They remain with their middle class thinking and never make it big {there might be some freak exceptions]

They get lead by their women home and bosses in their offices.

To get out of the mindset inculcated in them since childhood requires a himalayan effort.

They miss out on all good things life could offer as they cannot shake off their old mindset of safety and low

ambition to make it big.

I do not know how much damage we have caused to our future generation by passing on our thinking and

biases.
 

krish44

Gold Member
Gold Member
Can senior citizens with a brahmin tag turn their lives around starting afresh.?

Firstly there should be a basic desire for change.

Most would have given up on themselves and let status quo go on even if it hurts their life.

Seniors do not realise that they have nothing much to lose by attempting change.

All have only one life and it is worthwhile attempting alternative ways of living to experience something

different.

Those in sixties need not feel prematurely old as life expectancy has shot up and a new approach to do

something different should not be very difficult.

There are a lot of youngsters with little or no capability venturing boldly in new areas with no finance.

If they can do that, why not those with lifelong experience.

It is better than whining about health and following sundry godmen

I wish some would become productive and lead more useful lives
 

Vaagmi

Well-known member
My views in blue color.
Brahmins are in a trap of their own making.

r.May not be true. Please read furthe

Due to their upbringing , they are made to believe they are superior beings not suitable for enterpreneurship and should confine themselves to being wage earners for businessmen belonging to other castes.

There are a good number of entrepreneurs too. The eco system for enterprises here is so overloaded with corruption that brahmins are unable to compete here on merit alone which is their basic value system.

They would rather be CEO of multinational or occupy exalted position in govt offices earning close to nothing.

They are not there in the Government. They are CEOs because they get satisfaction there.

They become humans having low risk taking capability.

Risk taking ability comes from your irreducible commitments for life and your accumulated assets. Their commitments are weighing them down in many cases

They park their money in savings deposits and FDs earning interest which are a pittance.

Risk taking ability is limited and safety is opted

They remain with their middle class thinking and never make it big {there might be some freak exceptions]

A community which is just 2% of the population is largely middle class and that is itself something to show off.

They get lead by their women home and bosses in their offices.
To get out of the mindset inculcated in them since childhood requires a himalayan effort.
They miss out on all good things life could offer as they cannot shake off their old mindset of safety and low
ambition to make it big.

Just a repetition.

I do not know how much damage we have caused to our future generation by passing on our thinking and
biases.

The new generation starts with these values and environmental impact modifies several of these values to various degrees. Nothing remains static.
 

krish44

Gold Member
Gold Member
Vaagmiji

Whatever be your reasoning, Brahmins do not make good enterpreneurs. To blame it on corruption [which

has always been there for ages] points to their inability to cope in this field.

2. Brahmins are very much in govt. Indian revenue service is filled with brahmins. Ex chief economic advisor

Arvind Subramanian and present one-Krishnamurthy subramanian are tamil brahmin

So is Ex RBI governor raghuram rajan . There are dozens of IRS officials in various ranks in finance ministry.

Finance is their forte.

3. You accept that risk taking is not brahmins cup of tea.[ Should I say coffee]

4. There is no pride in being middle class. In course of time they will join india"s poor as the economy is

decelerating to zero growth in 4 to 5 years.
 

prasad1

Gold Member
Gold Member
I remember, that some of these "brahmins" were upset when India got independence from British colonial rule because they were more interested in protecting their fiefdom rather than Indian independence.

Some of these same members wanted to live in the Agraharam of Tiruvatpuram, till Sangom sir informed that it is not exclusive to Brahmins anymore.
 

mkrishna100

Well-known member
Brahmins are a very diverse community ( diversity in their income , education , orthodoxy etc etc ) and you cant put them all in one group and pass a judgement . Of course there is common traits in all Brahmins but Brahmins are now spread world over and I doubt whether any serious study is done on the Life Of Brahmins post Independence .
 

Vaagmi

Well-known member
I remember, that some of these "brahmins" were upset when India got independence from British colonial rule because they were more interested in protecting their fiefdom rather than Indian independence.

Some of these same members wanted to live in the Agraharam of Tiruvatpuram, till Sangom sir informed that it is not exclusive to Brahmins anymore.
Read these facts too:
Many of the freedom fighters from Tamilnadu were Brahmins. Rajaji, Satyamurthy and Bashyam are just a few among them.
Vanchinathan who shot dead Mr.Ash, the collector at Maniyachi as part of the freedom struggle of India was a brahmin.
Subramanya Bharathi, the Tamil Poet who wrote voluminous poetry in Tamil was a brahmin.
The so called Fiefdom was owned by not only rich brahmins, but by rich zamindars who all were from the so called middle castes who0 lived a licentious and prosperous life under the British. It included castes such as Mudaliyars, Naidus, Naickers and Thevars.
Agraharam is the name of a street where brahmins lived just like ghetto was the name of the colony of Jews in European countries including England in the 18/19th century. It has no other significance. I am from a small village from deep south and I lived in an agraharam till I finished my School Final. Agraharam was not a colony of palaces coming under any fiefdom.
 

Jaykay767

Well-known member
Few points -

1. Nothing wrong in feeling superior, as long as we don't discriminate, look down upon others.

2. Adventurism / Risk taking is not necessarily a virtue. So Brahmins being docile, risk averse, is not a liability. I have seen lots of people from varied communities making a mess of their lives due to this risk taking ability.

3. Our risk is actually in getting isolated from other communities. So we need to keep engaged and keep good relations with all. Keep up with the times.
 

prasad1

Gold Member
Gold Member
I too am a born Brahmin, fortunately, my parents taught me humility.

But going back to the topic.
Buddha answered this question best.
he belief that a group of people can be born superior to all other groups has been around for a very long time, and even existed during the time of the Buddha.
For 3,000 years, society in South Asia has been dominated by the caste system, according to which a person is born into one of four major castes (varna), or social stations: laborers, merchants, warriors, and brahmins. According to the earliest Hindu scriptures, brahmins—scholars and priests—were the highest caste and viewed as morally and spiritually superior to the others; indeed, they are called “brahmins” because according to one of the hymns of the Rg Veda, they were born from the mouth of Brahman [God].
In the Pali Canon, the Buddha has many conversations with brahmins who, clearly provoked by his ideas of radical equality, routinely approached him to argue and learn. Late in the Middle Length Discourses, we meet a group of 500 brahmins who live in the town of Savatthi, where the Buddha is staying at the time. When they hear that the Buddha has been teaching that all the castes are equally “pure,” they are outraged, and decide to send a smart young brahmin to go and debate him.
In the following conversation between the Buddha and the proud brahmin Assalayana (after whom the Assalayana Sutta is named), the Buddha offers some ways to address the obdurate belief in superiority of caste, race, or any other birth group.
Master Gotama, the brahmins say, ‘Brahmins are the superior caste; any other caste is inferior. Only brahmins are the fair caste; any other caste is dark. Only brahmins are pure, not non-brahmins. Only brahmins are the sons and offspring of Brahma: born of his mouth, born of Brahma, created by Brahma, heirs of Brahma.’ What does Master Gotama have to say with regard to that?

The Buddha begins to dismantle Assalayana’s notions of superiority by noting that we all enter the world the same way:
But, Assalayana, the brahmins’ brahmin-women are plainly seen having their periods, becoming pregnant, giving birth, and nursing [their children]. And yet the brahmins, being born through the birth canal, say, “Brahmins are the superior caste . . .”
The Buddha grounds this initial discussion in physical reality, as it is difficult to argue that people who give birth the same way are fundamentally different. Besides, how delightful is it that a creature who emerges from the nether end of its mother can entertain fantasies about its own transcendent superiority! We see from this exchange that the Buddha has a wry sense of humor as well as a comedian’s gift for drawing out the absurd.
The Buddha then proceeds to ask questions that he already knows Assalayana’s answers to. First, whether a person is a brahmin, a warrior, a merchant, or a laborer, if he does bad things, can he expect to suffer bad consequences? And if he does good things, can he expect to be rewarded with good consequences? Surely, replies Assalayana. Good people are good people, and bad people are bad people, no matter what they come from, and all can be expected to suffer the appropriate consequences. Even a brahmin supremacist has to admit to knowing some brahmins who are terrible people and some farm laborers who are wise and noble.
Next, the Buddha asks whether brahmins, warriors, merchants, and workers have the same relationship to their bodies and to the physical world. When anybody from any caste goes down to the river to bathe, do they not all scrub their skin and then rinse with water? And when they start a fire using logs, kindling, and a lighter, do they not all produce fire and heat, and smoke that makes everyone cough? Using the same materials and techniques, every human being will produce the same fire; thus notions of caste superiority have no basis whatsoever in the physical nature of the world.
At this point, in case Assalayana doesn’t believe that the laws of physics, chemistry, and biology have any bearing on the issue of ethical supremacy, the Buddha swerves back to the question of merit within the same caste. Between two brahmin brothers, is it possible for one to be worthier than the other—for example, the hard-working, respectful brother, versus the lazy, slanderous one? That is, when we’re dealing only with brahmins, it is clear that merit has nothing to do with birth; at least, we behave as if the more virtuous brother has deserved more respect.
To his credit, at this point in the conversation Assalayana has already understood the weakness of his prejudices. The brahmin student Assalayana sat silent, abashed, his shoulders drooping, his head down, brooding, at a loss for words. He is too intelligent not to see that when he thinks about it, the supremacist posture turns out to be an embarrassment to the intelligence. The Buddha then delivers an amusing coup de grâce by retelling the legend of the ancient Hindu sage Devala the Dark’s challenge to seven arrogant brahmins:

But do you know, masters, if the mother who bore you went only with a brahmin, and not with a non-brahmin?
No, master.
And do you know if the mothers of the mother who bore you—back seven generations of mothers—went only with brahmins, and not with non-brahmins?
No, master.
And do you know if the father who sired you went only with a brahmin woman, and not with a non-brahmin woman?
No, master.
And do you know if the fathers of the father who bore you—back seven generations of fathers—went only with brahmin women, and not with non-brahmin women?
No, master.

We know next to nothing about the sexual behavior of our parents, let alone our ancestors; about some things there is just no knowing. If we do not know the circumstances of our conception and the conceptions of those who conceived us, we have no right to claim superiority because of birth.
That being the case, do you know who you are? the Buddha asks.

That being the case, master, we don’t know who we are.

Assalayana has learned something, as have we: how a Buddha dispels an inveterate, vehemently held prejudice by calmly asking what it is based on. Throughout all of this, the Buddha has expressed no irritation, anger, or indignation. He is engaging with Assalayana on Assalayana’s own terms, using images and vocabulary from ordinary life. He treats Assalayana with respect, trusting his intelligence and knowing that the young man is smart enough to put two and two together for himself. If the Buddha had asked leading questions, Assalayana would have been put on the defensive and potentially found ways to argue back. Instead, the Buddha appears to be genuinely interested in what Assalayana will say, but he also knows what a reasonable response to the questions will be because the Buddha himself—having been born in the warrior caste—has thought them through.
Did the Assalayana Sutta shake the caste system to its foundations and transform Indian society? No. Even today, the matrimonial pages of South Asian newspapers will specify not only castes but sub-castes and sub-sub-castes, and fairness of complexion is still explicitly preferred.
But still, for today’s practitioners, this Buddhist sutta illustrates a tactic we might use against racist sentiment: it demonstrates a method of unraveling deep-rooted prejudice by asking questions that activate intelligent reflection. In these times in which racism is openly espoused both in-person and online, this persistent form of questioning might serve as one of the more trustworthy tools we can use against it.
The Assalayana Sutta (translated by Thanissaro Bhikkhu) can be read here.


Of course, this site is open to all, and I am deeply hurt by the insult and insensitivity shown to others than these so-called "birth Brahmins".
 

prasad1

Gold Member
Gold Member
I am a Member of the Highest Caste of India, But Here is Why I Want to Throw It All Away
I am proud of my heritage and upbringing, and I have nothing to be sorry, but at the same time, I believe in my achievements, rather than on my birth.

 

prasad1

Gold Member
Gold Member
How Nature and Nurture Interact
What researchers do know is that the interaction between heredity and environment is often the most important factor of all. Kevin Davies of PBS's Nova described one fascinating example of this phenomenon.

Perfect pitch is the ability to detect the pitch of a musical tone without any reference. Researchers have found that this ability tends to run in families and believe that it might be tied to a single gene. However, they've also discovered that possessing the gene alone is not enough to develop this ability. Instead, musical training during early childhood is necessary to allow this inherited ability to manifest itself.

Height is another example of a trait that is influenced by nature and nurture interaction. A child might come from a family where everyone is tall, and he may have inherited these genes for height. However, if he grows up in a deprived environment where he does not receive proper nourishment, he might never attain the height he might have had he grown up in a healthier environment.

 
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