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Islamist Jihadis run amok under secularist protection

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Either we remediate this yours-versus-mine the Gandhian way or we go the Godse way (or which other way is available?).

Regards.

The 'third way' is ofcourse the 'P V Narasimha Rao way' aka "inaction" (who famously said : 'Deciding not to decide is by itself a decision') (*)

If by Gandhian way you mean non-violent methods, i will have to agree with you. (BTW, i am not a great fan of Gandhi; I have never written him as Gandhi"ji' but only M K Gandhi; I don't despise him either).

The Godse way or the violent way would lead to anarchy, chaos and an eventual civil war. Violence is a self-destruct button as Pakistan and Iraq are showing to the world.

While the heart is for 'total-non-violence' the head says that some 'Laathon ka bhooth, bhathon se nahin maanenge'.

A "minimum" deterrence in the form of 'unambiguous laws', federal agency to combat terror and speedier disposal of cases are a must.

'Human Right activism' should not come in the way, across the board preventing the state from taking tougher measures.

Serious inter-faith dialogue with each side having the maturity to accept the fact that there are "malcontents" within is the need of the hour.

As Shabhana Azmi keeps saying, It is time for all liberals cutting across religions to be on one side and not against one another.

(*) This is just a quibble, not to demean an otherwise gentle, well-read person that PVN was.
 
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these 2 religions - they view thier style is the supreme. NO PROBLEM .

Kakaikkum than kunju pon kunju. so be it.

But there incapacity to tolerate the existence of other ways to pray god is the root cause. no amount of talking will cure their disease.
 
Dear Sri Hari,

I became a fan of Gandhi Ji, very late in my life; I did not understand him at first. He was an imperfect man in many ways, but single handedly freed India, with minimum of blood shed. I know it is fashionable to flog him now, by the right mainly, because of their perceptions of him being non-violent(interpret to mean cowardice).

It couldn't be far from the truth - he always said that a person has every right to defend himself/herself and his/her family from people who try to attack. He said that the Hindus who were attacked by the Moplahs in Kerala, had every right and in fact should have showed more courage in defending themselves.

He was against the generalized violence, against innocent folks. The non-violence he preached is against a 'civilized' opponent, on a national, larger level.

I do not think that people understand his philosophy very well. I am surprised to hear that you are not his fan.

Regards,
KRS



The 'third way' is ofcourse the 'P V Narasimha Rao way' aka "inaction" (who famously said : 'Deciding not to decide is by itself a decision') (*)

If by Gandhian way you mean non-violent methods, i will have to agree with you. (BTW, i am not a great fan of Gandhi; I have never written him as Gandhi"ji' but only M K Gandhi; I don't despise him either).
 
Dear Sri Hari,

I became a fan of Gandhi Ji, very late in my life; I did not understand him at first. He was an imperfect man in many ways, but single handedly freed India, with minimum of blood shed. I know it is fashionable to flog him now, by the right mainly, because of their perceptions of him being non-violent(interpret to mean cowardice).

It couldn't be far from the truth - he always said that a person has every right to defend himself/herself and his/her family from people who try to attack. He said that the Hindus who were attacked by the Moplahs in Kerala, had every right and in fact should have showed more courage in defending themselves.

He was against the generalized violence, against innocent folks. The non-violence he preached is against a 'civilized' opponent, on a national, larger level.

I do not think that people understand his philosophy very well. I am surprised to hear that you are not his fan.

Regards,
KRS

Dear Sri KRS sir,

As a schoolchild i was ofcourse having great reverence for Gandhi. (One of the distinct memories of my school life was the 'appreciation' i got for one my essays on Gandhi). That was a hallowed reverence when i couldn't form my 'own opinion'. I was only reacting to what i studied.

As i grew in a complex world, i realized that the relationship between 'means and ends' is not as simplistic or idealistic as Gandhi made it seem. It is my fair guess that if the British didn't yield, Gandhi might have breathed his last without securing freedom but he wouldn't have changed his 'methods'.

I am not even for a nano-second advocating that Gandhi should have changed tracks to violence but in my own view one of his limitations was in not recognizing the 'individuality' of each individual.

We are not born alike ; We are not educated alike ; Why should we think alike ?

Gandhi, in my view, created a political chasm between reality and idealism.

I also don't have a clear view whether his methods won't work today because the methods are flawed or because the people are flawed.

Gandhi is an enigma to me.
 
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mm,

thank you for your note.

i am insync with the concerns and understand the increasing sense of alienation from our own society as expressed by many a posters here. much as i tend to ignore the whole range of cutandposts, i do skim through them, and do peruse the occassional personal comments.

to me, it is the personal comments that reveal the true feelings. coming from the same background as most people here, it is but natural that i can atleast sense the timbre of their rings.

you are absolutely correct, and thank you very much for the same, for focussing on the single most aspect of my postings to saab/ramaa. it is the desire to keep our own tamil brahmin youths from indulging in violence.
again, because, i believe that violence is self destructive, and politics of the extremes have caused undue sufferings.

my observation is also that many of the incidents that are happening today in the name of religion, are something, that we as individuals, have no control. some action, done by somebody, at some place, appear to have repurcussions which affect us. that too in a negative way.

i agree with this too, for i too get upset. our sense of helpless on hearing this daily barrage of attacks against our culture, can either turn us to violence in turn, or support the machinery of state and call for stricter enforcement and curb against those who incite it. my option is for the latter.

what are our alternatives? as tamil brahmins.

first and foremost to me, is to eschew violence within our own. violence committed as tit for tat, and it is happening, is something that will happen regardless. the net result is that everyone involved there loses. except the instigators.

i do not want our children to be such fodder for the agendas of others. for if prodded, it will be these, who will be out in the streets, dying and in turn causing grief, for which will only start this never ending curse of cult of violence.

another personal note. i do support brahmin youths in education mostly from kerala. one appeal that came to me a couple of years ago, was from the uncle of a boy, a single child, who lost his father in a communal fight. the father belonged to one such organization, and the appealer made it a point in his note that as a brahmin myself, i should support the family of the martyr to the cause etc etc and to ensure the cause is continued.

much as my heart went out to the boy, i just could not condone the tone of the uncle, and the fact that this boy probably inclined to continue the path of his late father, thanks to all the indoctrination. i had to decline, with an apology re my attitudes towards doctrinaire inspired vigilante groups.

i am quite sure that there will be sympathetic minds here in this forum who would want to help out this youngster. i have not retained the email to forward it to such folks. sorry, for this youngster, was indeed a bright young man, who deserved to study above high school. i felt fairly comfortable that he would find the funding from other like minded resources.

mm,

we do have modern day kshatriyas - there are professional kshatriyas these days. our army, police etc etc are instruments to enforce the law and uphold justice. they are flawed some say. but so too were our kshatriyas of yore. we look up to the best in them to lead us and ensure the safety of our kind.

this safety should not be the self appointed role of any vigilante group.

i have no toleration for jihadists and their ilk. ultimately they will die by the sword they swear by, and expecting the reception by those vestal virigins as prescribed in their doctrines. i, for one, will vote for the hands of lawful agencies, that will hasten these guys' appointment with those damsels as soon as possible.

ramaa,

my note of caution to you, was in the same tone as the above. not an implied threat, but a whisper to take care and not expose yourself to random groups. i will still leave it to the agencies of those in power to deal with the jihadists. not encourage a gullible youth from our community through irresponsible postings.

education must of the positive kind to strenghten one's mind towards achieiving one's potentials. i do not believe that it is the destiny of a young person to indulge in violence and destruction.

way back, i said, and i still do, that we should encourage our youth to physical fitness and body strength. yes sir. but not to indulge in offensive violence. but to use muscular powere as a deterrent to bullying and tendency to avoid confrontation. the idea is to build confidence and stand up to the face of physical challenge, something that brahmin kids do not do. the word, sir, is deterrence and confidence building.

we, as a community cannot simply focus our children towards book reading alone. that was my point. this is completely different from the concept of mobilizing our youth for mob lynchings, many of whose victims, are as innocent.

i really wish you would read my posts in complete and not pick quotes out of context. thank you for the same.

again, i reiterate, that the guys in delhi who threw the bombs two days, and those types, are best despatched to the next world as quickly as possible. the challenge is to ferret out and catch them. that involves the use of stealth and infiltration and such tactics. not open strong arm methods, towards random violence, which your posts incite due to induced enrage.
 
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kunjuppu!

Well! I didn't read anything to the extent you are projecting..

i do not believe that it is the destiny of a young person to indulge in violence and destruction.

NEITHER THE POSTERS RAMAA & SAAB BELIEVE IN IT. no sane person would believe in it.

The question is if we are attacked and the government is closing the eyes what is your solution ? Not a word more not a word less.

this is completely different from the concept of mobilizing our youth for mob lynchings, many of whose victims, are as innocent.

who mobilize ? Just highlighting what's happening is not mobilizing. Cool...

The point I made is the chaos are the result of the societies waning values in our vedic education system and our culture.

In another post you have written , by entering the workforce women are developed lot - real funny logic. If they do by that, hats off to them. Do you know the social hazard they pose by comprimising there duty as a mother ???? ................
Well I 'm reminded of the proverbial "Yanai than thallayil mannai vari pottunda mathiri" .

kshatriyas are no more, without the 4th purushata , there is no meaning for the 3rd.
Without the 3rd there is no role for kshatriya...all are inter-connected.

Om Shanti!

Regards
 
thanks mm for your oct 2 note to me.

you, ramaa, saab appear to be comfortable in the content, context and process of those cut n'paste posts. you find it educational and informative, is what i gather from your reply.

i, for one, tend to disagree. i have given enough reasons, and you have to re-read those reasons, to know where my focus is. i, for one, will not be comfortable exposing my teenage children or grandchildren to such heavy worded documents, for the reasons, that i have already explained.

perhaps, you would feel it is perfectly alright for your children or grandchildren to read these notes, work themselves up and commit some act of violence which ends in tragedy. i am not imagining such trains of actions, as this has happened to me, and i caught myself, just in time. teenagers do a lot of things without their parents' knowledge.

i suspect, there are our teenagers, browsing through this forum. i perfectly respect your right and privilege to hold your views. what i queried about, was the appropriateness of the language presented, in light of our potential young audiences. please understand, that is all, my focus was. rest of your arguements and beliefs are perfectly welcome.

i also noted your remark re funny logic. i will treat this term with a kinder interpretation and i wish to let you know, that i meant the statement in seriousness and without any humour or intended mockery. that is not my way of expressing humour or logic in a public forum.

i was only stating something that i believe is currently prevalent in our tamil brahmin community - re education, employment and a chance fo self fulfillment have opened up to our women only recently. i think i am ok in stating that this is more of the norm in our community now, than the exception.

i stated what i believe is a fact of today's life. along with it, i gave my resounding approval for the same.

from your note, i gather, that you disapprove. that is ok. whatever works for you and your family. i infer from your tone, that the females of your family are proudly homebound mothers inculcating solid values to your children. good for you.

personally, i think, that parenthood and career are two different and unconnected skillsets. one can be good in both or neither. nowadays, in households like mine, we are two active parents, and i find as much fulfilment in my role as an active parent, as distinct from that of a distant father, which my male parent was. different times, different places, different generation.

i would never denigrate my parents' model. however i am also proud of my situation. please appreciate that there are different strokes for different folks.

if you understood otherwise, ie that i implied, that by entering the workforce, women are a developed (whatever that means, but i suspect none too flattering) lot - nothing could me farther than what i intended. i cannot accept a narrowand confining definition that a 'working woman' is the equivalent to an enlightenment era, a freedom, a concept, which we the men have taken for granted (and infact pampered for so long) but which we deliberately denied to our women folk, under the guise of socio religiosity. it takes more than a few doses of humility and introspection to appreciate that.

i am with bharathiar when he dreamed such in his verses. nowadays, atleast among my kith and kin, if a girl has just passed high school and stayed at home doing nothing, eyebrows are raised. it is interesting to know that this is not universal among our community. i like variety and so be it.

finally, back to the posts of ramaa & saab.

i have sometime ago suggested that they summarize their posts, instead of 'cut n'paste' long articles/comments written by third party.

on september 30th, in the 'echos of partition' thread, our moderator, silverfox has opined to another individual, the following: (post #787)

.. Instead of cut-and-paste, why don't you give the news and express your views, within the guidelines set by this forum (#3)..


i think this applies to all of us. i have additional reasons for supporting our moderator


- server disk space costs money. we do not pay anything to participate in this forum or contribute to defray costs. it is only decent that we use space optimally.

- there is a web link feature available, so that the url of the articles can be referred to elegantly through one click on the website

- these cut n'paste posts are so long, that personally i tend to skim them, always looking for summaries and personal views, which i would appreciat and find useful; if intrigued further, i can always go to the provided link

we all know that this forum is only sparsely moderated.

however, now that the moderator has clearly stated his views, i expect, that unlike those proverbial mice when the cat went away, we would conduct ourselves with more sense of responsibility towards this forum and desist cut n'post as a method to express our views.


that is my take on the moderator's note. let us not abuse their generosity and goodwill, and exhibit due respect and honour, as this forum rightfully deserves.


thank you.

 
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kunjuppu!

i take that you are not comfortable with traditional views of society. your vibrations ar much in tune with the modern society where people are guided only by their likes and dislikes.

before Saab and Ramaa's cut and paste posts - you all lived in your own fantasy world projecting we are living in the best of times etc..etc... no jati no problem, reigious disciplines some ancient concoction which is of no use....you even posted some social problems on mother-in-law and wife problem , asking who should the son choose???. women earn money so they are a liberated lot ....lets rejoice. I've posted many counter arguments to you , you have either choose to side-step or ignore ... so some of it abruptly ended... so be it.

Saab and Ramaa posts on the realities affecting india should have been a rude jolt to you all.

It is obvious that you all are uncomfortable with the realities which are the outcome of certain type mind-set which is anti-traditional / religious.

When I joined this forum I never thought our religious values and traditions will be valued like this by our own peoples.

I'll not be replying to your posts anymore. I let you all to live in your own world connected to the current life-style but disconnected to our religion core values.

Hope you would understand that I may not be talking religion if the forum name is not connected to our religion.

To moderators....

Whatever it is I respect moderator's view, My only request is change the name reflecting the principles for what MODERATORS stand for. Atleast that would alert the people what to expect from here. That'll save everbody's time and effort.

"padikarathu ramayanam, edikkarathu perumal koila? "

Regards
 
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Dear Sri Kunjuppu,

I am in line with all that you have said. By the way I am in my 20s and be rest assured that me and my friends donot get carried away by the likes of cut copy post materials you are concerned about. We know what is to be a militant and violent person. The after effects are terrible on the surviving family members. It is nice to hear that we need Vanchinathan from those who are 40 plus, 50 plus, 60 plus, 70 plus etc. They have been goody good boys to their respective parents, studied well, employed well, grown in career well, earned well, married well, happy with children and what not. Ask them will they preach what they say to their own son. A big no. The Kerala family referred to by you is one of the rare ones. I for one felt that you should have supported the young boy and slowly counselled him to the non-violent path. An opportunity lost.

My uncle used to say that there are checks and balances in the system, like in a jungle. so the likes of Ramaa, Malgoa and Saab are there to give some view point, you another, KRS a third one and so does Hariharan. It suits us fine. We will not be tricked into violent path. We know the difference. All those who advise now did not take it when they were young. If they had taken they would not be here!

I agree with you on cut copy paste posts. Please read the articles in these links

http://www.veeran.co.cc/2008/09/blog-post_28.html

http://www.veeran.co.cc/2008/10/2.html

Regards

Anjankumar
 
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Dear Sri Kunjuppu

I am afraid that many may not read the linked articles if I dont highlight the aspects that I want to be discussed or at least taken note of.

Therefore I give an extract here:

ஹிந்துக்களுக்கு மதம் என்பது ஆன்மிக முன்னேற்றத்திற்கான படிக்கட்டு. ஆபிரகாமிய மதங்களான கிறிஸ்தவம், முகமதியம் ஆகியவற்றைப் பின்பற்றுபவர்களுக்கோ, மதம் என்பது உலகம் முழுவதையும் வசப்படுத்திக் கொள்வதற்கான ஓர் அரசியல் கோட்பாடு. எங்கெல்லாம் கிறிஸ்தவர்களின் எண்ணிக்கையும் முகமதியரின் எண்ணிக்கையும் கூடுதலாகின்றனவோ அங்கெல்லாம் நாட்டைப் பிளவு படுத்தும் தேசத் துரோகம் வலுப்பெறுவதன் காரணம் இதுதான்.

இன்று ஹிந்துஸ்தானம் முழுவதிலுமே தங்களின் எண்ணிக்கையைப் பெருக்கிக் கொண்டு ஹிந்துஸ்தானத்தை "இஸ்லாமியக் குடியரசாக' மாற்றிவிட வேண்டும் என முகமதிய பயங்கர வாத இயக்கங்களும், "கிறிஸ்தவக் குடியரசாக' மாற்றியமைக்க வேண்டும் என்று கிறிஸ்தவ "நற்செய்தி' இயக்கங்களும் நாடு முழுவதும் ஒன்றோடொன்று போட்டி போட்டு வேலை செய்து கொண்டிருக்கின்றன. இந்த நடப்பு நிலவரத்தை உணராமல் ஹிந்துக்கள் ஆழ்ந்த உறக்கத்தில் மூழ்கிக் கிடப்பதும், தமக்குள் சச்சரவிட்டுக் கொள்வதும், தாராள மனம் உள்ளவர்கள் என்று பெயர் எடுத்துப் பலன் பெற வேண்டும் என்ற அற்ப ஆசையில் முகமதிய, கிறிஸ்தவ இயக்கங்கங்களுக்குப் பரிந்து பேசுவதுமாகக் காலங் கடத்தி வருகிறார்கள்.


Dont you think what this writer says makes some important point in the preservation of our culture and governance?

Regards

Anjankumar
 
Let me chip in with the classic 'Narasimha Rao' intervention.

a) Instead of mere 'Cut and Paste' posts, sharing view points, is surely more welcome and interesting.

b) In the interest of minimizing server space, the call to just provide a link and follow it with a brief note on what the poster's opinion on the referred article will definitely enhance the quality of discussions.

c) Quoting from others, i am afraid is akin to firing from someone else's shoulders and as responsible posters we should also be candid enough to say whether we agree or not, atleast briefly.

d) Criticizing the moderators IMHO doesnt take into consideration the fact that TB does not have online moderation and the role of moderators is voluntary. If someone has serious reservations about moderation and they have the time and intention, why not apply to the powers that be to get enrolled as moderators ?

e) The view that 'Cut and Paste' posts instill wrong ideas and would lead the youngsters of the forum on the path of criminalisation is a ludicrous view. Mr Anjan stands testimony. I think we will be seriously guilty of under-estimating the skills of the current generation to read a viewpoint and assess it on it's merit.

f) Indian youngsters are IMHO no less talented compared to their western counterparts. And in any case i have not seen any proclamation anywhere that all the intelligence of the world is concentrated only in Toronto. Puhlease eh ?!?

Last heard that Einstein was a German !!!
 
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anjan!

what two delightful postings from you to gladden my heart. apropos to you sir.

to me, you appear to be a perfect example of my personal conviction, that one's age has nothing to do with one's level of maturity. good stuff

between you and hari, you have very succintly and elegantly expressed my rather verbose and roundabout arguements re cut n' post in past several posting. enough said.

anjan, your sample post was a perfect example of what a cut 'n post needs to be, if it is to attract readership and comment. congrats for having made a point - simple but enticing to read further.

re my recent entreaties re gullibility of teen agers at exposure to certain types of material - it was primarily based on my own experiences in madras, during those increasingly receding 1960's.

those posts, of mine, were intended as something from a concerned parent to his wards. it was meant to be such, though i confess that it might not exactly have come across that way.

at no instant, there was any inkling or mockery towards the decision making process or intelligence of the youngsters. i tell my university bound late teenage children the very same cautions, with my personal strictures attached. to repeat, it is the natural concerns as a parent. that is all.

i reed (read) your 8:42 a.m. note as an assuagement of my concern. 'k. don't suffer any angst on our behalf. we are OK' - it appears to say. i am touched at your comforting assurace. sincere thanks.

i am with you 100% re the reality of and respecting divergent views. i hope none of my notes have come across with a tone of aggression to drive anyone away.

it is indeed difficult, or almost impossible, to predict the context and level of sympathy/indignation, with which one's notes would be read. we are after all separated by distance, time, unidirectional flow of message, and communicating in a language, which is our adopted tongue of choice/convenience.

i, for one, tend to give the writer the benefit of the doubt, and whenever i am aware, try to elicit explanations and backgrounds. to me, the journey is as much fun, as the destination.

many a times, i have disagreed with the like of malgova, saab, ramma. but, there have indeed been many more a times, when i have agreed or admired their stand of view, and everytime, their erudition.

in fact, during narration of some of my experiences of the past, i found them very empathetic, and making every effort to provide me solace, for which i am grateful.

i wish to reassure you, that i will do whatever within my mite, to encourage them to contribute, debate and freely express their viewpoints without a sense of rancour or ill will. that would not behoove well of me, to do otherwise.

but disagreement will happen. with anyone. issuewise. not personal. for after all, even in a family of 4, are there not 6 levels of potential flash points?

to end this ditty - i believe that variety is the absolute spice of life. it would indeed be a dull forum, should all of us parrot the same views and nod our heads in sync to one and to the same timbre.

thank you.
 
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mm,

thank you for your note and observations.

i wish i could be as cut and dried, as you define me as 'modern'. i am not sure what that means. equally, not sure, what 'traditional' means either.

these two appear to be absolute boxed in view of life. i would like to consider myself to be a wee bit more selective in my choices that would define me.

i look upon myself, as an occupant of a boat, floating the river of life, who is largely 'in with the flow', occasionally picking a morcel of interest here and there, ignoring what does not interest me, and avoiding the dangers lurking in any fast flowing river.

to define a sample of a selective adoption: refrigerator. it is an instrument which goes against all norms as prescribed by my grandmother - vethu, theettu, pelai and other concepts handed over times imemmorial. my parents went against those strictures, in one stroke, broke milleniums of heritage and bought a fridge.

my parents, on buying the fridge, did not look at this object as anti-traditional. to them it was a creature of comfort. initially it housed only water, milk and pickles. later came some leftover kootans. and much later, whole sadyas. .

we learned as a family, to eat fridge preserved leftover foods, which we once would have been consigned to the maid, raa-pitchai or simply thrown away. wonder if that made my parents a rejector of a vedic ideal.

i continue to have a fridge in my house. we possibly cannot live without one. does that define my modernity? out of curiosity, as an upholder of traditional values, would you consider having a fridge as a blasphemy?

the fridge is just an example. we can extrapolate this to any other thing, idea or concept, and make an effort to branding it as modern or otherwise. i

mm, we are all continuously exposed to thoughts and materials, which are new. and this stream of novely never appear to end.

i do not know personally, where to stop. i enjoy the window shopping of new ideas and articles, an exposure which makes my life interesting. it would not make sense to suspend such stuff in the name of traditional values.

if one wants to be traditional, which period does one freeze one's mental and physical environment. for arguement's sake, if you consider yourself traditional, how far back in tradition do you go? no car? no fridge? no fan? no i.t.? no p.c.? where would the stretching back stop?

what i am getting at, is that all of us, do selectively choose from among the available paraphernalia, whatever that provides a level of comfort for each us, and seek like minded individuals, to share the pleasures and experiences of the same.

which is why, i think, we are all in this forum. we hope to find common shared experiences and references, based on our common ancestrage.

i do not think anyone is modern or traditional, in black and white terms. i think, all of us are mixes of grey, each painting themselves, to their individual shades of comfort.

you and i have found common grounds earlier. i am confident we will concur at points in the future. others, we might disagree. it is just that. my regard for you has not gone down one iota. to disagree, is as naturally human, as agreement.

to repeat, even in a family of 4, there are 6 flash points. we, in this forum, are multiple flashpoints by our very presence.

let us flow together along here, and banter when the time and opportunity comes.

so till then,

adieu.
 
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I agree with many points raised by Hariharan.

'Thayai pola pillai; Noolai pola selai'

If we apply the same philosophy, one's parents will also be judged by their children's
character, conduct and achievements. Nothing wrong in it, except for a few exceptions here and there.

If a religion does not preach violence, why should the Muslim clergies and other leaders of their community should cry foul, when heartless militants/terrorists
are cornered? Why they should call this targeting of one whole community, comprising of innocent persons too? Why they should call this discrimination by the majority community?

Militants and terrorists have no religion, no caste, no language, no loyalty to their motherland or native place etc. Such being the case, they are only hardcore criminals
and to be dealt with accordingly. They have no right to live in this civilised society.
 
Militants and terrorists have no religion, no caste, no language, no loyalty to their motherland or native place etc. Such being the case, they are only hardcore criminals
and to be dealt with accordingly. They have no right to live in this civilised society.

Perfectly said Pannvalan-ji. Why not include politicians also. They are no less than militants and terrorists. They have no religion, are politically-casteist, disloyal to their motherland and comrpise of hardcore criminals that do not deserve a place in a civilized society.
 
A very ineteresting incident happening in New York. Shows the nature of Islam as a 'social' religion and it's impact on a multi cultural and multi religious society. If Islam has to be viewed as relevant to modern life they need to change. They have to start reconciling the individualism afforded by the modern thought, democracy and secularism and imposing a rigid view of their religion as usually interpreted by an uneducated religious leader. This is why in an increasingly modern life where religion is there to help and not dictate, Islam is in peril.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/04/n..._r=2&oref=slogin&pagewanted=print&oref=slogin

Regards,
KRS
 
Dear Mr happyhindu

Please donot generalise the politicians as hardcore criminals. To be a politician full time is as difficult as being a sanyasi. this statement may sound very weird to many, but it is a fact. Just as a sanyasi's all actions are viewed from only one perspective, the politician's actions are also viewed from only one perspective.

A politician has a family, he has to feed his dependents. If he/she earns only as much as that is needed for bare minimum survival, the society would not notice, but he would go into oblivion in a short time. This is because the society is not mature enough to appreciate and encourage honest politicians.

On the other hand, such of those who have chosen to be politicians despite being either affluent or well educated or well placed, have all so chosen to be politicians themselves, believe me out of patriotism and love for the people or a public cause. The examples are too many like Mahatma, Motilal, Jawaharlal, BR Ambedkar, Rajaji, Kamaraj, Satyamurthi, V.O.Chidambaranar, Bharatiyar to the present day Manmohan, Somnath chatterji or for that matter communists like Namboothiripad or surjitsingh. Many might not be aware that Surjit gave up his family wealth for the landless people. some more are thrust into the system because of oppression. We may differ from them on their point of view, but they have their own reason to be so.

There are good and bad apples everywhere - in every religion, caste, every profession or calling.

My uncle used to say if in a jungle there are only the rabbits and deer and no cornivores and the humans also donot hunt the rabitts ..... Then in flat five years time the jungle would be a desert - such would be the population explotion of plant and grass eaters. There are checks and balances in every system and that water will find its own level. It is not without reason our elders and Mahans advise that every one should adhere to one's own dharma and if so done the universe will flourish. Nothing more is needed. The answer to the malody therefore is within us, he would say.
 
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dear Mr KRS,

If the family mentioned in the link you have posted would have been in India, the fundamentalist muslims here would have buried the entire family and declared it as as per the wishes of the most benevelont and merciful!

Because it is USA they have stopped with threats. In India they know they have the best of the supports from the Government and politicians.

Regards
 
Dear Anjan Kumar ji,

What you say is true. But it is apparent that for the very few good politicians around, the number of bad apples are just too many.

Also maybe we are all products of our circumstances. Perhaps that is why my thinking is so skewed. I have only come across some people who recounted their experiences with politicians that did not do any good to anyone. And yes i am talking about the local MLA level, not the MP level and above.

Having said that, must say we are lucky that someone like Manmohan Singh is at the helm. Nice to know about Surjit Singh. Prob is the common folk are so cut off from the people that supposedly represent them, that they hardly know anything abt them. All they feel is, approaching a policeman and a politician is equivalent to asking for doom.

Regards.
 
Having said that, must say we are lucky that someone like Manmohan Singh is at the helm.

Only if you consider that the alternatives to Manmohan Singh would have been 'Quota King' Arjun Singh or 'Inept' Shivraj Patil.

Manmohan Singh, the FM, made India proud at a time when Indians were just pushovers in the world arena;

Manmohan Singh, the PM, is making India a mockery at a time when Indians are breaking new grounds everyday;

What a great fall for this Economist !

A man is known by the Company he keeps - Never has this been more truer than in the case of SMS - Sardar Manmohan Singh
 
Dear anjankumar ji,

Sadly I agree with you.

America is not perfect by any means, but this country has some things to offer others. One basic thing is that the fundamental rights this country offers to every individual with in the frame work of the constitution (which by the way the founding fathers made it very difficult to amend, thus forcing a national consensus to amend anything within it).

Mormons are a minority Christian sect in USA. But they were forced to adapt to the law of the land which adopted the modern thinking about marriage to be monagamous. Not the poligamy that the sect believed in.

I remember a mild controversy where I live, when a muslim kid died in an accident, his family tried to prevent the coroner from performing the autopsy as required by the law - they were muslims. But their Imam advised them to follow the local laws as otherwise it would have been a forced autopsy on the part of the government.

India should get to this place. There should be one civil code for all. Abolish both the Hindu and the muslim civil codes and fully implement the already existing secular code as the only civil code. This will go a long way in solving the religious problems.

There ought to be one law for everyone who is Indian.

Regards,
KRS



dear Mr KRS,

If the family mentioned in the link you have posted would have been in India, the fundamentalist muslims here would have buried the entire family and declared it as as per the wishes of the most benevelont and merciful!

Because it is USA they have stopped with threats. In India they know they have the best of the supports from the Government and politicians.

Regards
 
Of late, I find we are unduly obsessed with Islam and Islamic terrorist groups. While
we cannot but think of the impact or destruction these create on our nation and society as a whole, please give some interval for the time being.

One more request. Why can not our members be brief in their posts?
 
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