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Is prayers alone - without jnana enough for salvation

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prasad1

Well-known member
This post is only for Hindu Theists. If you are not one please skip this post.

Is prayers out of greed or fear enough for salvation?

Devotional practices included reciting the name of the god or goddess, singing hymns in praise of the deity, wearing or carrying identifying emblems, and undertaking pilgrimages to sacred places associated with the deity. Devotees also offered daily sacrifices—for some, animal sacrifices; for others, vegetarian sacrifices of fruit and flowers—in the home or temple. After the group ritual at the temple, the priest would distribute bits of the deity’s leftover food (called prasad, the word for “grace”). Seeing the god (darshan), and being seen by him, was an essential part of the ritual.

bhakti (Hinduism) -- Britannica Online Encyclopedia
Please do not quote the stories of Kannapa, Valmiki as proof.

Bhakti is often discussed in distinctly human terms, using human love as the model. A parent's love for a child, for instance, is the model for the devotee's love of the god; a parent's love is utterly selfless, absolute. Likewise, the love of a devotee for a god is also described in amorous terms.
 

renuka

Well-known member
This post is only for Hindu Theists. If you are not one please skip this post.

Is prayers out of greed or fear enough for salvation?

Devotional practices included reciting the name of the god or goddess, singing hymns in praise of the deity, wearing or carrying identifying emblems, and undertaking pilgrimages to sacred places associated with the deity. Devotees also offered daily sacrifices—for some, animal sacrifices; for others, vegetarian sacrifices of fruit and flowers—in the home or temple. After the group ritual at the temple, the priest would distribute bits of the deity’s leftover food (called prasad, the word for “grace”). Seeing the god (darshan), and being seen by him, was an essential part of the ritual.

bhakti (Hinduism) -- Britannica Online Encyclopedia
Please do not quote the stories of Kannapa, Valmiki as proof.

Bhakti is often discussed in distinctly human terms, using human love as the model. A parent's love for a child, for instance, is the model for the devotee's love of the god; a parent's love is utterly selfless, absolute. Likewise, the love of a devotee for a god is also described in amorous terms.


Dear Prasad Ji,


Frankly if you ask me I am rather uncomfortable to divide the Paths rigidly into Bhakti Marg and Jnaana Marg.

I feel its interrelated.

Before that I feel Bhakti is often confused with preforming rituals.

A person can have any reason to preform a ritual and Bhakti is just one of them.

Bhakti is a Bhava(Feeling of Self Forgetfulness) and as we know there are 5 kinds of Bhava in Bhakti:

1)Shanta
2)Dasya
3)Sakhya
4)Vatsalya
5)Madhurya

Jnaana is often defined as "using the mind to achieve the ultimate level of realization".

Even in any types of the Bhavas above our mind does come into play.

Purification of mind is a prerequisite for any spiritual endeavour.

Purification of mind can come through various ways like preforming Japa,Namasmaranam,Rituals and also by reading religious text.

Jnaana is often wrongly thought of as reading books without any feelings towards God in the heart.

It takes a lot of Bhakti to acquire Jnaana.

The unique fact about spirituality is no matter where we start the end product is the same.
 

renuka

Well-known member
Naishkarmya Siddhi of Sureshvara (1.52)

The performance of daily obligatory rites leads to the acquisition of virtue;

this leads to the destruction of sin,which in turn results in the purification of the mind.

The purification of the mind leads to comprehension of the true nature of Samsara or relative existence;

from this results Vairagya(renunciation), which arouses a desire for liberation;

from this desire results a search for it means;

from it come renunciation of all actions thence the practice of Yoga,

which leads to a habitual tendency of the mind to settle in the Self,

and this results in the knowledge of the meaning of such Shruti passages
as 'Thou Art That'(Tat Tvam Asi) which destroys ignorance, thus leading to the establishment in one's own Self.
 
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prasad1

prasad1

Well-known member
Renuka,
Beautiful post. You need both. Just chanting or ritual puja alone is not enough.
 

sunkan

Active member
dear prasad,
the minute i read ur lines i got reminded of ramana maharishi who is asking these if the quest is on then any marga will lead u to the path of infinite omnipotent whatever u name it will come ur way...sunkan
 
All rituals[vaidika, smArta] are only a preparatory to get into the "enquiry mode"[the so called dharma or brahma jij~nAsa.] Of the two the Dharma-jij~nAsa is only to understand the purpose of the ritualistic portion of the Vedas. In the chatusUtrI-bhAga of [The First Four sUtras of the Brahma Sutras]part Sri Shankara BhagavatpAda lays out the "qualifications" for an inquiry into Brahman, which if done diligently and with total application must result in Brahma-SakShAtkAra or "becoming Brahman" in a true Advaitic sense.

Personally, I am more impressed by teh kind of inquiry that Shankara Bhagavatpada has suggested in his interpretation of the BS. Bhakti in the style of and as defined by the Narada Bhakti Sutras or as followed in Sri vaiShNavaite/ vaiShNavaite traditions result in the necessary "j~nAna" that will deliver one from the cycle of Birth and Death. In the path outlined by Bhagavan Ramanuja mukti is a matter of Faith. It is so in the case of Videha Mukti of SaguNa Brahmopaasana as broght out by Shankaracharya also.


There is a particular "clarity" that comes when the pure j~nAna mAga of ShrimacCh~NkarabhagavatpAda is followed- there is an awareness of the state of liberation; this is called jIvanmukti.


There definitely are other mArgas like the Bhakti Marga/prapatti mArga(Bhagavan Ramanujacharya).
 

Govinda

New member
Renuka,
Beautiful post. You need both. Just chanting or ritual puja alone is not enough.

Prasad,

You did not acknowledge Renuka's message sincerely. You want to drive your own idea that 'jnana is important'.

A sincere/loving mother can attempt to go any level - renounce her money, life , comforts, and even obtain knowledge
for the love of her child. She maynot be educated, but wouldseek info. from doctors, friends, magazines to provide right
path for education and health for her child.

Whereas, I have known parents who are highly educated, in high career positions, but wouldn't pay attention for their child's welfare,
for their attention is on something else(their own ego-self). Thus, one who has Bhakti, will seek knowldege and will progress quickly
when comes in contact of right knowledge. Whereas, a jnAni ****(simply book knowledge) will be overwhelmed by own arrogance
and cannot practice them, because he would have more devotion to his own ego/arrogance than the knowledge.! He would also
have his mind set on pre-conceived knowledge, and cannot accept the right knowledge that is set before him.

Actually, the jnAni acc. to upa/gita, is "knowing that our self is sub-servient to that Higher Self". Else, it is some bookish-jnAna.
If your understanding of JnAna is different from being sub-servient/in loving surrender to the Lord, then you got that foundation
basically wrong. Thus, someone religious, when comes in contact with right knowledge, will pursue that correctly in his
endeavours/karma/rituals/actions. Thus, Bhakti is the substratum, Karma-Yoga and Jnana-Yoga will intensify Bhakti.
But, other two, cannot influence Bhakti.

I have many of my close circles, who are proud of their knowledge, but won't practice anything! I have seen many who have sincere
devotion, but lacks the subtle knowledge/jnAnam, but these people will get there sooner than the former case.
 
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prasad1

prasad1

Well-known member
Mr. Govinda,
You are partially correct. I did acknowledge Reneka's point, and at the same time wanted to emphasis that blind bhakti without Gyana is not a salvation.

Bookish Knowledge is not called Gyana.

Kabir Das says:
Pothi Padh Padh Kar Jag Mua, Pandit Bhayo Na Koye
Dhai Aakhar Prem Ke, Jo Padhe so Pandit Hoye


Translation


Reading Books and Scriptures everyone died, No one became Pandit
Two and Half Words of Love, Who ever reads, Pandit he becomes


Meaning


Forget about book learning, no mater how many books you read, you won't become wise, you won't became the true Pundit. Just a few words of love and you'll become Pundit. Try it.

Reneka's knowledge is far deeper than anything I can expound. I would not even try it.
 

C RAVI

Well-known member
Mr. Govinda,
You are partially correct. I did acknowledge Reneka's point, and at the same time wanted to emphasis that blind bhakti without Gyana is not a salvation.

Bookish Knowledge is not called Gyana.

Kabir Das says:
Pothi Padh Padh Kar Jag Mua, Pandit Bhayo Na Koye
Dhai Aakhar Prem Ke, Jo Padhe so Pandit Hoye


Translation


Reading Books and Scriptures everyone died, No one became Pandit
Two and Half Words of Love, Who ever reads, Pandit he becomes


Meaning


Forget about book learning, no mater how many books you read, you won't become wise, you won't became the true Pundit. Just a few words of love and you'll become Pundit. Try it.

Reneka's knowledge is far deeper than anything I can expound. I would not even try it.

Perfect post, Shri Prasad!!!!

I am of the same opinion...

Learning scriptures and other philosophical books is not enough for one to become wise. For many, such readings just provide some mental stimulation. Once they are out of it, the next minute they would act as per their perceived ideas of how to deal with this world of human life, within oneself and with the others. And their speech, actions and reactions based on such strong perceptions, tactics and total individuality remains the same, that would be in contrast to what they have read and got fascinated as a hobby.

In the same line, just prayers, bhajans, sharing spiritual scriptures/philosophies etc..etc. for some sort of satisfaction can not mean and lead to True Wisdom/Gnyaana.

Compassion can not be achieved with the sense of detachment and true love, care, support, respect, compromises, adjustments, sacrifices, selflessness etc..etc. can not be genuine and complete without compassion.

Compassion and commitments with the sense of true responsibility, empathy and honesty towards desirable human life and with the sense of acceptance, reverence, adherence and true practices towards spirituality alone lead to WISDOM and the Wisdom acquired this way alone can facilitate SALVATION.

 

Govinda

New member
Bookish Knowledge is not called Gyana.

Forget about book learning, no mater how many books you read, you won't become wise, you won't became the true Pundit. Just a few words of love and you'll become Pundit. Try it.

Prasad ji,

You are again into the same pre-set mind. Reading words of love, cannot make you jnAni either! This is exactly I am picking on you!

That few words of Love..as lip-service.... Indians do that all the time now after the advent of bollywood. But, socialize only for own personal interests .

Reading a love sonnet, cannot make you lovable or dedicated/knowledgeable about your lover. Only real effort to listen to her interests, following her actions,
aiding in her endeavours, supporting her wishes will make the foundation strong. Then, knowledge about her from her well-wishes/even enemies etc., and a hell a lot of time, will make you get attached to her!

But, this e.g. being futile in spirituality, one should consider the Lord as one's own Lover and peruse all such efforts to know the Lord. Though Knowledge/Actions
are part of the Endeavour/Salvation, the REAL INTEREST/Devotion is the cause of all furtherance.

Believing this topic is about the Love for the Lord, A true devotion, followed by action and pursued further with right knowledge, will take us towards salvation.

Only actions based on love, will enhance your jnAna further!! Doing your rituals and a self-less action, that are devoted to the Lord, will gain you jnAnam sooner!

There are logical books of jnAna, but that would be still bookish-knowledge, if we have read them from our pre-conceived mind.
But by first setting our mind right with devotion, we won't read with pre-conceived mind, but will read with sincere involvement to achieve
perfection in our bhakti/service to the Lord. The learning will be totally different in both the instances!

This is exactly why we have karma-kanda (following actions/rituals sincerely) and later jnana-kAnda(Inquiry) of the vedas. The Faith, dedication, devotion are the basis for seeding clear, better inquiry/realization. Then, bhakti and karma/jnAna become cyclical later.
 
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prasad1

prasad1

Well-known member
You are again into the same pre-set mind. Reading words of love, cannot make you jnAni either! This is exactly I am picking on you!

Only actions based on love, will enhance your jnAna further!! Doing your rituals and aself-less action, that are devoted to the Lord, will gain you jnAnam sooner!

There are logical books of jnAna, but that would be still bookish-knowledge, if we have read them from our pre-conceived mind.
But by first setting our mind right with devotion, we won't read with pre-conceived mind, but will read with sincere involvement to achieve
perfecton in our bhakti/service to the Lord. The learning will be totally different in both the instances!

Mr. Govinda,
You are making mockery of Kabir, he did say just read PREM, in Hindi Prem is written as प्रेम which is two and half syllables. He meant to live the love of God.

Like Sankara says Dukrihim Karne is not going to provide the salvation, you do need to Bhaja Govindam, but you need to understand why you are doing it.
 
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prasad1

prasad1

Well-known member
Perfect post, Shri Prasad!!!!

I am of the same opinion...

Learning scriptures and other philosophical books is not enough for one to become wise. For many, such readings just provide some mental stimulation. Once they are out of it, the next minute they would act as per their perceived ideas of how to deal with this world of human life, within oneself and with the others. And their speech, actions and reactions based on such strong perceptions, tactics and total individuality remains the same, that would be in contrast to what they have read and got fascinated as a hobby.

In the same line, just prayers, bhajans, sharing spiritual scriptures/philosophies etc..etc. for some sort of satisfaction can not mean and lead to True Wisdom/Gnyaana.

Compassion can not be achieved with the sense of detachment and true love, care, support, respect, compromises, adjustments, sacrifices, selflessness etc..etc. can not be genuine and complete without compassion.

Compassion and commitments with the sense of true responsibility, empathy and honesty towards desirable human life and with the sense of acceptance, reverence, adherence and true practices towards spirituality alone lead to WISDOM and the Wisdom acquired this way alone can facilitate SALVATION.


Yes Ravi, I agree with you.
Bhakti with Jyana or Jyana with Bhakti is the only salvation.
 

Govinda

New member
Yes Ravi, I agree with you.
Bhakti with Jyana or Jyana with Bhakti is the only salvation.

Where did that obligatory/service based karma go?

This is exactly I mocked at Kabir! My few words of Love to my baby is of no value, unless I feed him baby food.
But, by doing that, after a couple hours, I will realize I need to chage his diapers. When he cries often, Over time,
I would have to learn that I had to burp him, change diapers "on time" and grease him for diaper rash.

Knowledge follows from actions (based on dedication/devotion). Where is karma in your declarative phrase?

Kabir like Bhakti saints have lot of offer and are very nice, humble people. Only vedas is the authority for knowing
the nature of God and its Practice. Thus, read and follow complete texts like Gita.
 
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prasad1

prasad1

Well-known member
Mr. Govinda,
It is not between you and I.
Any thing done with out knowing the purpose is useless.
I understand as a soldier you do what you are told, and they do it.
It might be good for the military, but it is not the way for salvation.
You are making it an argument, which is not my intention.

I have been a member of Chinmaya mission study group for last 45 years so Gita is not a novelty.
I am not a Bhakti Path follower. I said you need gyana, with Bhakti for salvation.
You may not agree with it, that is your prerogative. It is free forum and a free country.
 
In the stanza DhAI Akhar prem kA the meaning to be got, as per Sanskrit/Hindi Grammar is as follows: the content of the word prem as written in the DevanAgari half 'pa' + Full 're' + full ma, together constitute 2.5 "letters". Though Kabir's Doha talks of paDhai su = one who reads or learns, the words of Saints must be understood at a much deeper level than what they speak. So, Kabir is exhorting a true seeker to simply Love All Unconditionally, to be treated as a Pandit. Again the word paNDitaH(San) is to be understood yasya paNDA= vidyA asti sa paNDitaH. Unfortunately, vidyA is taken as 'aparA vidyaa' = worldly learning that gives one livelihood. But j~nAnis never refer to worldly education at all. They are always talking of parA-vidyA, when it comes to relating to God. And Kabir is one of the finest Brahmaj~nAnis there are and an unlettered one at that!
 
As posted earlier, I had the good fortune of reading and discussing the BS BhaShyam by Sankara which if followed very closely with meditation on the true import on the meaning of it does layout a very brilliant path for mokSha. Bhakti on the other hand is a simplified path that does not call for contemplation (if one goes by the non-Shankara definition of Bhakti) but total unreserved devotion to Guru/Path/God.
 

renuka

Well-known member
In our Puranas there is an Individual who was is the perfect example of a Bhakti and Jnana combination.
He never spoke about either yet His Thoughts,Words and Deed were playing the harmony of Bhakti and Jnana in every breath and every step He took.
He knew all yet always appeared humble.

He showed us the Bhakti isnt easy as it seems but a 24/7 job and Jnana isnt as difficult as it seems when Bhakti is the foundation.

He showed us the Bhakti isnt just singing songs of praise and Jnana isnt just words and letters shut in a cage.

Its only a combination of Bhakti and Jnana that can make one tear His chest and show us God.

hanuman5.jpg
 
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C RAVI

Well-known member
Where did that obligatory/service based karma go?

This is exactly I mocked at Kabir! My few words of Love to my baby is of no value, unless I feed him baby food.
But, by doing that, after a couple hours, I will realize I need to chage his diapers. When he cries often, Over time,
I would have to learn that I had to burp him, change diapers "on time" and grease him for diaper rash.

Knowledge follows from actions (based on dedication/devotion). Where is karma in your declarative phrase?

Kabir like Bhakti saints have lot of offer and are very nice, humble people. Only vedas is the authority for knowing
the nature of God and its Practice. Thus, read and follow complete texts like Gita.

Shri Govinda,

Just performing duties and responsible offering of support as parents, spouse, children, sibling etc..etc. can not facilitate gaining of true knowledge out of committed actions.

Off course you perform your Karma to the best of your honesty and would be rewarded suitably.

When you perform your obligatory/service based karma, there is something, the lack of which would not help you to attain Wisdom/Gnyaanam. And that is nothing but LOVE. A LOVE that is not flawed within you in your consciousness and in your demonstration. A unconditional and compassionate LOVE, that would let you know what WISDOM is.

When we perform our obligatory service with our true sense of Love and compassion as human beings, at some point of time, we would most probably be utterly disappointed and pained to find how we were been treated/acknowledged in return. And, in such a situation we may end up with developing hate with utter despise towards the other, may change our mind set and perception to tamper with our own true sense of love and compassion towards the other and may even end up with depriving our self with the sense of love and compassion towards the other.

When humans tend to get disappointed, develop hatred, develop dejection and start developing negative perceptions, and as such thinks, acts and reacts, they fail to obtain WISDOM/GNYAANAM.

Thus, just performing our Karma is not enough to gain WISDOM/GYAANAM. All that matters is what sort of internal harmony or conflict that you are going through and how composed are you.

A Gnyaani is one who always be in harmony within oneself, with out a single negative sense and would reflect/offer his/her purest self to the others surrounding him/her.

Both in terms of Human life dealing with fellow humans and in terms of Spirituality, a true uncompromising LOVE and a true Bhakthi with true devotion and Love towards GOD alone can help humans gain true WISDOM/GNYAANAM, that can be enough for SALVATION.

PREM = LOVE, is something that is not tampered with to suite our internal psychological fluctuations and retained in its purest sense for our mere human life and spiritual practices alone can help us know what WISDOM/GNYAANAM is.


One of the many ways of acquiring Wisdom is = Be a honest self critic.


When you could attain Wisdom/Gnyaana and be in Bhakthi Marga, you get on the way of SALVATION.

 
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nalanda

Member
Most of the people whose lives were saved during wars happened from people who were not religious. You may have heard about Schindler's list or watched the film.Being religious is one thing, being spiritual is something else.How many priests,pandits,iyers, imams make it to sainthood and their knowledge and practice of prayers and rituals knows no bounds.If you are walking on a bridge and the person next to you tries to jump, you will attempt to save that person with no consideration to your own safety;Why? the answer lies in a metaphysical area of the mind.
nalanda
 
Adi Shankara says, 'Avirodhitaya karma, na vidyaam vinivartayeth' ( Atma Bodha, 3rd sloka) My understanding is, rituals and karma alone are not enough to dispel ignorance. Knowledge alone can destroy ignorance.

Most of us find solace in performing अनुष्ठान - rituals. This is important. However, a true brahman should compliment anushtanam with विद्वत्त्व as well. Many of us do not understand or have a knowledge of the rituals we perform Even the satrigals, who are our gurus, over emphasize anushtanam, with almost no विद्वत्त्व.
 

renuka

Well-known member
Actually I feel analyzing if Prayers or Knowledge will lead to Salvation is like debating whether chicken or egg came first.

For salvation and realization purity of thought, word and deed is of extreme importance.
Purification of thought word and deed can be achieved through various means and no one path is superior to the other.

Let's take a trip down memory lane with this story which I am sure most of us already know.
It emphasizes that doing one's duty itself is the greatest virtue.


This story from Mahabharata brings to light that our spiritual achievement is useless if we neglect our duties or Dharma.
Kaushika was his parents' only son.
"Mother," he said one day, " I want to go off into the jungle and devote myself to spiritual studies. "
Butcher1.jpg

His mother said with concern, "But son, your father and I are very old. Your father is so sick he can hardly move. If you go away, what will happen to us? Who will attend to our needs?"
Kaushika did not listen. He was determined to study the Vedas. His mother cried in vain as she watched her son turn his back on her and leave for the jungle.
Eventually Kaushika acquired great mystical powers.
One afternoon, as he was meditating under a tree, a crane flew up, and perched herself on a branch above Kaushika. Some bird droppings fell on Kaushika's head. Kaushika furiously threw a fiery gaze at the crane.
The crane immediately fell dead.
The sage felt sorry for what he had done. "How could I have allowed my anger to take over me that way?" He mourned.
Later in the day, he went to a village to beg for alms. The lady of the house asked him to wait and went to get some food. Right then her husband arrived. She immediately set aside the pot of food she was taking to the sage and went to attend her husband.
After washing his feet, giving him food, and attending to his needs, she came back out to give the alms to the sage. The sage was very insulted. "You put your husband before a pious sage? Do you know the power of a Brahmin?"
She calmly replied, "Yes, a true Brahmin is he who has mastered his anger. Please do not threaten me, I am not a crane that will die by your fiery gaze."
The sage was amazed. "How does she know about the crane?" he wondered.
The lady continued, "Oh holy one! You are a learned Brahmin but you have not understood the truth about virtue. If you want to be enlightened, go to Dharmavyadha who lives in Mathura. Any one will tell you where he lives."
The sage thanked the lady and hurried to Mathura. "He must be a great and learned sage indeed," Kaushika thought to himself.
But when he finally reached Dharmavyadaha's place, he found it to be a butcher shop!
A very ordinary looking man came out and said, "Welcome holy one. I am Dharmavyadaha, the man you seek."
"How can a butcher be spiritually enlightened?" Kaushika asked in amazement.
Dharmavyadaha smiled and said with compassion, "I know the story of the crane and of the woman who sent you here. Come, let us go to my house. "
The sage could not contain himself and blurted out, "But butchering animals is such a sinful profession! Are you not ashamed?"
"I am not," the butcher calmly said. "I am engaged in a family trade. I work hard and honestly at it. There is no reason for me to be ashamed of my work!"
"Holy one," continued the butcher. "If I do injury to other creatures, so do you as you did to the crane. "
"As we walk on the soil, we are trampling on numerous creatures. Nor is the air devoid of creatures."
"You see that farmer tilling the land? He is killing so many animals that thrive under the soil."
They reached the butcher's house. The butcher's wife was doing her house hold chores and his two boys were playing.
The butcher introduced the sage to his wife and boys.
Then the butcher entered the house and touched his parents' feet.
"Here is a learned Brahmin who has come from a far-off place." the butcher told his old father.
"Welcome, holy one," the father said.
Before leaving the room, the butcher remarked, "My parents are my Gods. My wife and my children attend to them with devotion and love. We consider caring for them to be our greatest duty."
Butcher2.jpg

"In doing one's duty cheerfully, lies true virtue. This is what the dutiful wife sent you to learn."
"Oh learned one!" the butcher continued, "You have run away from your responsibilities and deserted your aged father and mother. Spiritual achievement is useless if one has neglected one's Dharma, or duties."
The sage remembered his mother crying, "Who will look after us when you are gone my son?"
The sage apologized, "You have shown me the path of true virtue, the true meaning of Dharma, Oh pious one. I am deeply indebted to you."
Kaushika immediately returned to his parents and served them lovingly till the end of their days.

taken from INDOlink Kidz-Korner - The Enlightened Butcher
 
Beautiful, insightful story, demonstrating what Dharma means! Karma and rituals are important. They are foundational. I am bemoaning the fact that most of us, born Brahmans, are satisfied by rituals alone. Few choose to pursue and disseminate knowledge.
 

renuka

Well-known member
Beautiful, insightful story, demonstrating what Dharma means! Karma and rituals are important. They are foundational. I am bemoaning the fact that most of us, born Brahmans, are satisfied by rituals alone. Few choose to pursue and disseminate knowledge.

Dear sir,

Don't bemoan that some people are satisfied with rituals alone.
Each one of us are born with specific spiritual requirements that can be met with either the Karma Kanda portion or the Jnana Kanda portion of the Vedas.

Both are equally important.Just take it like this..I will give you a simple example.
In medical colleges we have doctors who have become lecturers by specializing in non clinical subjects where they do not see patients.
They impart medical knowledge at a theoretical level to medical students which builds the foundation for any future clinical practice.

There are also doctors who see only patients and do not take lecture classes.

So those who lecture are impart Jnana and those who see patients alone are doing Karma.
We need both types of doctors for medical knowledge to be imparted to students.

So think of Karma Kanda practitioners in the same way too.
They are building foundation for any future spiritual endeavor.

There is no harm preforming rituals provided one understands what he/she is doing.

Acquiring knowledge for dissemination is a gradual process.

There will be an inner call to do so and those who have heard the call..do so.
 
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prasad1

prasad1

Well-known member
Renukaji nice story.
My OP of the thread did not say that you should not have bhakti, or you should abandon your duties.
I just stated that you need to have desire and knowledge (Jnana) of your devotion. Blindly doing japa of "Mara-mara" is not going to give you salvation. That story of Valmiki doing the japa and achieving salvation makes it too simplistic.
 
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prasad1

prasad1

Well-known member
Beautiful, insightful story, demonstrating what Dharma means! Karma and rituals are important. They are foundational. I am bemoaning the fact that most of us, born Brahmans, are satisfied by rituals alone. Few choose to pursue and disseminate knowledge.

Very true that is my contention too. Everything, other than knowledge is like having all spice and no main ingredient.
 
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