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Interfaith Marriage: Christian And Hindu Love Story Told In 'Saffron Cross'

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dear rajiramji

My children got their wedding duly registered .

but they did have a wedding with some rituals, more fun ,frolic ,dancing bhangra style and crackers at mapillai

azaippu as in north india, booze parties for youngsters ,,and south indian nadaswaram, thaalis with different signs

peculiar to sub castes to which the bride and bridegroom happen to belong. there was both thaali tying and

sapthapadhi -the minimum requirements of a hindu marriage. In a democratic family one includes in a marriage

what everyone wants.marriage celebration means different things to different people.
 
there are some who hide behind sastras and samskaras and quote them at the drop of a hat for their own benefit.

they will quote them even to justify going to the shitpot every day .

marriage is nothing more than a binding a contract set down by law and society for living together.

religious mumbo jumbo is added to it by various religeous groups .,

some appoint themself as guardians of religion and think they are specially anointed by a super power to carry out

these functions . they are best ignored

You are so right.
and Rajiji,
we do things for society because we live in it. Please do not underestimate the bonds some of the animals have, they put human beings to shame.

Humans like to think of themselves as a faithful species, but when it comes to true fidelity, many other animals offer better examples of how to keep a relationship together. Although monogamy and lifelong pair bonds are generally rare in the animal kingdom, there are some animals that pull it off. Scroll down to see great comments from our readers about monogamy ... or choose one of the arrows above to see the next animal. (Text: Bryan Nelson)

11 animals that mate for life: Old faithful | MNN - Mother Nature Network
Marriage has been around since before recorded history. One obvious reason for it was the creation of offspring. But a far more important reason for marriage was the cementing of alliances. Difficulties abounded in the ancient world, and the more allies you had the safer you were. Marriages were the prefered method for sealing alliances between families, clans, tribes, and ultimately nations.


The idea of marriage based on romantic love is actually a relatively recent innovation. The true purpose of marriage throughout the ages was advancement of family (clan, national -- whatever) interest. That's why throughout history most marriages were arranged. There was no romance or love involved -- this was business.
The origins of marriage
The institution of marriage is now the subject of a bitter national debate. How did marriage begin—and why?


How old is the institution?
The best available evidence suggests that it’s about 4,350 years old. For thousands of years before that, most anthropologists believe, families consisted of loosely organized groups of as many as 30 people, with several male leaders, multiple women shared by them, and children. As hunter-gatherers settled down into agrarian civilizations, society had a need for more stable arrangements. The first recorded evidence of marriage ceremonies uniting one woman and one man dates from about 2350 B.C., in Mesopotamia. Over the next several hundred years, marriage evolved into a widespread institution embraced by the ancient Hebrews, Greeks, and Romans. But back then, marriage had little to do with love or with religion.


What was it about, then?
Marriage’s primary purpose was to bind women to men, and thus guarantee that a man’s children were truly his biological heirs. Through marriage, a woman became a man’s property. In the betrothal ceremony of ancient Greece, a father would hand over his daughter with these words: “I pledge my daughter for the purpose of producing legitimate offspring.” Among the ancient Hebrews, men were free to take several wives; married Greeks and Romans were free to satisfy their sexual urges with concubines, prostitutes, and even teenage male lovers, while their wives were required to stay home and tend to the household. If wives failed to produce offspring, their husbands could give them back and marry someone else.

For that ignorant person who throws words like Sastra and Samskara, as if he owns it.
The concept of a family is older than Hinduism, older than civilisation, and indeed older than the species itself. Hindus inherited this concept from their forefathers who had not followed any religion, and practiced it in its purest natural form, permitting polygamy, monogamy and polyandry depending upon the location and circumstances.


Social structures in mythology are invariably a reflection of the extant social structures at the time and place of myth creation. As such, we can make out that polygamy, monogamy, and polyandry were familiar phenomena around the time when the Mahabharata and the Ramayana were written, though it may perhaps not be wise to conjecture as to how common each of these systems was just on the basis of this evidence. One thing, however, which can be observed from an analysis of this body of literature is that only men and women of high social standing were able to have more than one spouse. Monogamy was the lot of the rest of society –or its good fortune, call it what you will.


Although gods and kings would usually have more than one wife, the role of one of these ladies in their lives was usually recognised as being predominant by most observers, and their historical and mythical descriptions dwelled more on this consort.
There are stories of each of such systems in our Puranas. It shows the lineage from Prajapati (origin of species) until Kaurava-Pandavas and Parikshita. The lineage continues until Mauryas. This is the real "sanaatana" dharma.


This also shows the emergence of Brahmacharis and Brahmanas. The story of Sanakaadi sages show that certain individuals voluntarily sacrificed their "share" of women to go live in forests. This "sacrifice" earned them high respect as they could think above the petty constraints of belonging to a particular lineage or clan. A system of counselling developed which evolved in parallel and which was based on altruistic sacrifice of one's primal drives in favor of something higher and more meaningful.


One must thank Vyaasa Rishi to have chronicled all these stories, theories for us, when it is clear that he himself did not approve many such practices. Most of these practices were considered "Garhya" (something which is frowned upon, prohibited) by the time of Vyaasa rishi. But he honestly chronicled them. My homage to this great soul.


The references of free cohabitation, sibling cohabitation, offering one's "stri (woman)" to friend OR guest" (note that the word "patni" had not evolved), references towards intercourse with alive and dead animals, intercourse with wife of one's guru (much later stage, when humans understood that knowledge is important), cohabitation with multiple males, temporary cohabitation, contract marriage all these are referred to in our Itihaasa.

Know your scriptures, read them with open mind without the blinders you can find all kinds of information.

Please do not run to moderator that I am insulting Hindu Religion. There is no judgement involved, it is simple statement of events from our scriptures.
 
Dear Prasad Sir,

You asked the question in the first line. And the answer is hidden in the last line!

Marriage should be a religious ritual because it is NOT meant for JUST procreating like animals. :)

It is for social reason, procreation is preservation.
As Bhimsen of Mahabharata very correctly identifies, "Kaama" as mother of all other purusharthas and hence the superior to all three (dharma, artha and moksha). Our memories have stories when there were no "names" for relations. Only relation was that between a fertile man and woman. Here we have stories of Brahmadeva and his daughter indulging in coitus in beginning of time. There are many stories as such.

Bhishma beautifully explains this succinctly in three verses from chapter 207 of Shanti Parva.


न चैषां मैथुनो धर्मो बभूव भरतर्षभ
संकल्पादेवैतेषां अपत्यं उपपद्यते - 37


ततः त्रेतायुगेकाले संस्पर्शात् जायते प्रजान
ह्य भूः मैथुनो धर्मस्तेषां अपि जनाधिप - 38


द्वापरे मैथुनो धर्म प्रजानां भवन्नृपःतथा
कलियुगे राजन द्वन्द्व मापेदिरे जनाः - 39
"In satya yuga, intercourse happened as desire arose in minds of fertile men and women. There were no words for mother, father, sibling etc. In Treta Yuga, when men and women touched each other and welcomed the touch, dharma allowed them to copulate for time-being. (this is stage where concept of "favourite" mate started emerging). IN Dwapara Yuga, Men and women started cohabiting as couples but not as stable and committed pair-bonding couples. In Kali Yuga, the stable pair-bonding (what we refer to as institution of marriage) emerged."

Kaal - Chiron...: Brief history of Hindu Marriage - 1 - Evolution of Human Pair Bonding as seen from Puranas and Vedas

So there never was any religion involved in the olden days.
 
This thread is going the way just like any other thread goes in this forum.

For some marriage is sacred. For some it is only a contract or an arrangement like any other business or trade. End of story.

BTW, I have a simple question. If marriage is just a contract to cohabit or copulate as is written here, what is there to trumpet about an inter caste marriage or inter religious marriage?
 
Life is bigger than religion. There is life outside of religion. Somehow we have started equating certain practices by a group of people as if that is the ultimate and universal. That is a mistake.

Marriage is a social event and has value to the society for various reasons. It is being defined as we speak. The definition is still evolving. If marriage was sanctioned by GOD, it can not change, and will be universal and uniform.
 
Dear Krish Sir,

One genuine doubt. Did your children have only registered wedding?

I know that question to Krishji was Satirical (I can see it had the desired effect on KBJI), and his answer would mean nothing. I had a registered marriage after a Hindu Marriage. I am sure your children too had registered marriage.
Even if marriage is a non-religious function (It is a social function, given a seal of religion), we live in a society where we have to abide by some norms. So we do it.
 
Somehow we have started equating certain practices by a group of people as if that is the ultimate and universal. That is a mistake.

Not entirely true. Then how can one explain both the evolution and existence of several such practices and groups. Clearly there is no fixation with something as ultimate and universal despite people being religious as there exists a large number of religious thoughts and beliefs.

The only new fixation visible in this forum and elsewhere, if I may say so, is the fixation with inter caste and/ or inter religious marriages.
 
Types Of Hindu Marriages
Eight Types of Hindu Weddings


Brahma marriage
Daiva Marriage
Arsha Marriage
Prajapatya Marriage
Gandharva Marriage
Gandharva marriage is similar to love marriage. In this case, the bride and the groom get married secretly, without the knowledge of their parents. It is not considered a right kind of marriage, as it is done without the consent of the parents. This marriage reminds us of the love affair of the mythological characters - Sakuntala and Dushyanta.


Asura Marriage
In the Asura marriage, the groom is not at all suitable for the bride. Although the groom is not suitable for the bride, he willingly gives as much wealth as he can afford, to the bride's parents and relatives. Therefore, the system of marriage is more or less like buying a product, which makes it undesirable in the present time.


Rakshasa Marriage
According to Rakshasa marriage, the groom fights battles with the bride's family, overcomes them, carries her away and then persuades her to marry him. This is not considered as the righteous way to woo a girl for marriage, because forcible methods are used by the groom to tie the wedding knot.


Paishacha Marriage
Paishacha marriage is the eighth and last type of Hindu wedding. It is considered as the inferior type of marriage, because the girl's wish is not considered, even if she is not willing to marry the person chosen for her. In fact, she is forced to marry. Moreover, the bride's family is also not given anything in cash or kind. Literally, the girl is seized against her wish. Men would marry a woman, whom he had seduced while she was asleep, intoxicated or insane.


How many of such Hindu marriage would be acceptable to today's conservative Society. These were sanctioned by Hindu scriptures (Sastra and Samskara). So if we are open to accept changes to marriage on religious grounds, IR, IC, love, or others may have to be considered.

I understand breaking any tradition is difficult, but there are pioneers who blaze the path and others follow. Most of us are followers and not trail blazers.

There is no fixation. I am not in the market.
 
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As a diversion, here is a story:

Lauren is white, from England, studying pharmacy. Abhiram is from India who lived and worked in New Jersey for sometime.

In December 2012 they connected through a vegetarian forum online. As they chatted, something clicked, they fell in love, and within days of that first online conversation decided they wanted to be together. Just a few weeks later Lauren moved to India and they got married. They now live in Nagpur with Abhiram's family.

This video describes how Lauren is adjusting to life as a traditional Indian wife.


BBC News - 'My new life as an Indian wife'

Good post.
I am sure it must be tough for her, but it also depends on the people surrounding her.

We have a punjabi DIL, and sometimes we forget and revert to Tamil, without even thinking about it, then somebody will remind us and we revert back to English.

This happens even among friends, we have lot of Gujarati friend, and we have to constantly remind them that Gujarati is not my first language.
 
I consider marriage a social contract ..I do not give much importance to wedding rituals cos I do not need rituals for me to feel love and care for someone but for the sake of society and parents we go tru wedding rituals.

Even though I consider marriage as a social contract I still very much prefer to sign that contract with a person of my own religion.
 
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Dear Krish Sir,

We can easily say our rituals are mumbo jumbo, but when it comes to celebrations in our family,

the blame for this mumbo jumbo is put on the society and relatives! Cool attitude! :thumb:
 
I consider marriage a social contract ..I do not give much importance to wedding rituals cos I do not need rituals for me to feel love and care for someone but for the sake of society and parents we go tru wedding rituals.

Even though I consider marriage as a social contract I still very much prefer to sign that contract with a person of my own religion.
Dear Renu,

Your wedding rituals were to please to your parents. Nice to hear this. :)

Only because you discuss about purAnAs, scriptures, Hinduism etc with your husband, you need your partner from your own religion.

For those who don't care about the above can easily marry someone from other faith, who also is not interested in his / her own religion!
 
Dear Prasad Sir,

Why not those with forward thinking have ONLY a registered wedding and save money?

They will not because preaching to others is very easy! :)

And those having interfaith marriage will have two different weddings and have more fun! :thumb:
 
A tambram guy said a big NO to any ritual, when he selected a Muslim girl as his soul mate.

His orthodox parents objected to his selection and the parents of the girl were NOT orthodox!

So, there was just a registration, in the company of the girl's parents and one member from the boy's family!
P.S: Money saved is money earned! :popcorn:
 
Based on overwhelming support we can promote the following in our forum:

1. Brahmin should marry Muslim or Christian but not Brahmin or Hindu
2. We should mock our Hindu religion, our rituals and Gods in this forum
3. We can dissolve anything having the word Brahmin

RIP
 
Dear Krish Sir,

We can easily say our rituals are mumbo jumbo, but when it comes to celebrations in our family,

the blame for this mumbo jumbo is put on the society and relatives! Cool attitude! :thumb:
you might think it is action not matching the words and thoughts.

how do you transact with those who do not agree with your views?

in democratic families one goes by majority views in the family.

my son wanted a thread ceremony before marriage. I never went thru one. My relative offered to stand in for me so

that he could have the ceremony. I coolly agreed to the proposition to someone else performing my role.lol

It is difficult to be non believer at personal level and yet be a participant in religeous functions in families.One learns

to live

with such compromises. we still require relatives and be part of a society whose thinking and views and practises are

different from ours. so one selectively compromises depending on need. It might be a few times in a lifetime.lol

it is like the single lady who said she was a virgin all her life except couple of times.lol
 
Widower and widow in the society are not treated in the same way Why..
Our society has changed considerably over the past few decades.

Let us hope there will be equality soon.

I find that women demean the widows
more than men! :sad:
 
Based on overwhelming support we can promote the following in our forum:

1. Brahmin should marry Muslim or Christian but not Brahmin or Hindu
2. We should mock our Hindu religion, our rituals and Gods in this forum
3. We can dissolve anything having the word Brahmin
.....
Dear Ganesh,

1. Some members are comfortable with I R weddings; but they do not say that brahmins should have I R weddings!

2. Don't you know that some members educate us that these are not mocking but FUN, which is not SIN! :(

3. But the word 'Brahmin' used to get five star status to the threads sometime back! :thumb:
 
Dear Renu,

Your wedding rituals were to please to your parents. Nice to hear this. :)

Only because you discuss about purAnAs, scriptures, Hinduism etc with your husband, you need your partner from your own religion.

For those who don't care about the above can easily marry someone from other faith, who also is not interested in his / her own religion!

dear RR ji,

My dad would have "killed" me if I did not agree for a religious ceremony!LOL

BTW I wanted a same religion spouse cos its easier to live with a fellow Hindu..I do not even actually follow any Hindu cultural practice so do you really think I will follow another faiths religious practice?

Its only a fellow Hindu spouse who will understand the differences of a mindset that is allowed in Hinduism...Not following culture or religion is not a crime in Hinduism but not following religion in some other faiths can mean a death sentence too.

I have seen some Hindu females married to Christian males and have to celebrate Christmas etc.

I do not even celebrate Diwali ..so now way I will ever agree to celebrate any other festivals.

So marrying a fellow Hindu is the best..we get to be what we want to be.
 
Dear Renu,

The daughter of my friend married a brahmin guy, who forced her to do daily poojA elaborately with 'madi' nine yard saree.

The girl could tolerate till a son was born to them and when she needed more time for the child, the guy started taunting her!

It soon ended in a break up though they are not divorced yet!
 
Dear Renu,

Hmmmm ..... Your husband is an :angel:.

Dear RR ji,

But he sort of knew my mind set cos during marriage proposal he asked me "why are you a vegetarian"

And I said "I am veg cos I love animals"

He was very happy with that answer and said 'I guess you must be a very compassionate person"

Later after marriage he told me that he was a bit afraid in case I was veg becos of religious reasons cos he said those who were too adherent to religion at times have a closed mindset and wanted a moderate person as his spouse..but then he got to know that I did not follow tradition or culture as much or even the required amount!LOL

You are right RR ji..he is an Angel...since opposites attract he married a DEVIL!LOL
 
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