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How did vali, the vanara king and manifestation of indra, was a terror to demon ravan

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renuka

Well-known member
"Tell me the truth..I am sure deep down inside you yourself have the Supremacy feeling that you have realized that there is No God but many others in the world are still living in falsehood,fantasy and fiction." -post 72

Please consider this -

1. Talking about a community or a caste like "Brahmins" is quite different from talking about an individual and his style.

2. I have a different POV about GOD and Religion from many of you. I agree. Does that give me a sense of "Supremacy".. I doubt. I am different from you "on that particular issue". Nothing more. Perhaps, on another issue, we may have similar view!

Yes, I have my own Id/ego.. which is what driving me to grow, which many of you don't agree with. Fine. You all want to go to that promised land of "No Ego"! Lol.

3. Yes, I talk about Bragging Rights... Is this part of a feeling of "Supremacy"? I don't think so... this shows my personal style: When I earn it, I brag about it... You may not like it.. Fine.

4. The fact you consider some "flaw" in post 42 is what I want to confirm from you... Perhaps, if it's written by another person, you will not write all this!

5. I know very well that Sravna is a popular person in this Forum, and you like him very much.. that's why I was appalled to read his post 42.

If it's from another person, I would have mumbled "Here goes another Brahmin Supremacist, who has earned the Brahmin Bashing!"

Take care.

:)

Dear Yams,

Ok I get what you are trying to say..Whatever you do or you feel is at a microcosmic scale but whatever others do is at a macrocosmic scale.
Thats totally unfair my dear..

Thats now how life is all about..If anothers thoughts are Full..So are your thoughts!LOL


That is Full, This also is Full, From Fullness comes that Fullness,
Taking Fullness from Fullness, Fullness indeed Remains.

Om Poornam-Adah Poornam-Idam Poornaat-Poornam-Udacyate
Poornasya Poornam-Aadaaya Poornam-Eva-Avashissyate ||

BTW there is no flaw in post 42..this is what I wrote
How can I point finger at someone else when I myself could have a flaw in me.

I wasnt talking about Sravna..I was saying that anyone of us could be having a flaw including me.
 
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Dear Shri Yamaka,

I try to be unbiased. I am saying the reverse of what you said. Strong anti brahmin sentiments got the worst out of me. It is a vicious cycle I think. But I am glad that there are no such discriminatory attitude among today's youth.

But more than anything else my concern is that it is the selfish who are in control of everything now. Whether one is a brahmin or not, I prefer wise people to be at the top. That is the reason I have a liking for a system that uses virtue as its yardstick to understand people. But as always my slogan is be pragmatic to the world but virtuous inside.

Dear Sravna:

As I wrote earlier, my own fil is a proud "Brahmin Supremacist".. He has told me more than once "If good things happen in this country, that's because of Brahmins... all this bad things happen because of this non-Brahmins".

So much so, whenever he deals with non-Brahmins like an electrician, a taxi driver or some others, he brings forth his condescending attitude... more than once it earned him situations when he was about to be beaten in the street!

Once I was forced to intervene and save his "prestige". He was openly wondering, "How did Y manage to contain the situation within a minute.. when it was going out of hand so long?"

I am not sure about youngsters' "No discriminatory attitude" these days! I hope so, anyway.

__________________________

You talk about Selfish people and Wise people:

As I have written before, Selfishness Vs Altruism, I prefer selfishness within some boundary.. Altruism is theoretical, not a practical attribute.

How will you measure "wise people"? On what scale? Who would be the judge?

Is a "Brahmin Supremacist" wise person?

Life is quite complicated, Sravna!
 
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sravna

Well-known member
Dear Sravna,

Dont you think all of us benefited from this debate?

See you yourself wrote this


That goes to show that all of us still hold on to some form of identification whether we are Brahmin or Non Brahmin.

Its not easy for all of us to sing "Chidananda Roopah Shivoham Shivoham" yet.
Dear Renuka,

True. But I think anti brahmin feelings are unjustified to a large extent. It is my opinion , unbiased though I think. So the emotional aspect of my response is not that much. The worst part is that I responded knowing that it is an emotional issue, not conducive for objectivity.
 
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renuka

Well-known member
Dear Renuka,

True. But I think anti brahmin feelings are unjustified to a large extent. It is my opinion , unbiased though I think. So the emotional aspect of my response is not that much. The worst part is that I responded knowing that it is an emotional issue, not conducive for objectivity.

Dont feel bad about responding that its an emotional issue, not conducive for objectivity..thats where we Hindus lose out.
We should never shy away too often.
After all God gave us legs to stand up. So my dear when you are right dont fear anyone.

Arise, Awake and Stop Not till the Goal is reached.
 

sravna

Well-known member
Dont feel bad about responding that its an emotional issue, not conducive for objectivity..thats where we Hindus lose out.
We should never shy away too often.
After all God gave us legs to stand up. So my dear when you are right dont fear anyone.

Arise, Awake and Stop Not till the Goal is reached.

There is no point in fighting that we are good. We are never going to win that argument. We are also not going to lose anything in not fighting for it. Because only when you are too good, you are told that you are no good. That's present day pragmatism.
 

renuka

Well-known member
There is no point in fighting that we are good. We are never going to win that argument. We are also not going to lose anything in not fighting for it. Because only when you are too good, you are told that you are no good. That's present day pragmatism.

No Sravna,

No one if initiating a fight with anyone but we can surely defend ourselves if "attacked" unfairly.This is for every strata in society.
Defending ourselves doesnt involve gain or loss.

sukha dukhe same’ kritva labha labhou jaya jayou
tatho yuddhaya yujyasva naivam papam avapsyasi
 
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sravna

Well-known member
No Sravna,

No one if initiating a fight with anyone but we can surely defend ourselves if "attacked" unfairly.
Defending ourselves doesnt involve gain or loss.

sukha dukhe same’ kritva labha labhou jaya jayou
tatho yuddhaya yujyasva naivam papam avapsyasi

Renuka, I understand. But do you think you would get reasonable responses from them? You know what is happening to threads that discuss these topics. I would say do not debate with them unless they respond logically.
 

renuka

Well-known member
Renuka, I understand. But do you think you would get reasonable responses from them? You know what is happening to threads that discuss these topics. I would say do not debate with them unless they respond logically.

That I have to agree with you..logical debate is lacking in most general discussion topics.
Sometimes even to fight we do need a "worthy" opponent.(Wow I am letting my ego grow!!LOL..thats fine isnt it..according to todays standards?)

Best policy is to let some people wolf around for most days of the month and by full moon we can play Werewolf!! and watch some Bhag Bhag!!!!LOL(just kidding)

images



Disclaimer: This post is a friendly chat between me and Sravna and not directed to anyone in specific.
 
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sravna

Well-known member
Dear Shri Yamaka,

Can you tell me what is common in the following?

I am a brahmin
I am an Indian
I am a Tamil
I did it
etc. etc.

The common thing is the "I". Are you able to see how the "I" or the ego is the real villain?. So your bragging is not as harmless as you think it to be. It is the root cause of everything that may be detrimental to you.

Thus it is ironical that while you attack supremacist feelings so vehemently, you don't mind feeding you ego which is the ultimate supremacist feeling.The identity with brahminism is only one way to bolster the opinion of yourself. But I would condemn that too.
 
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....As far as possible I prefer to stay clear of controversial topics because reason takes a second place to emotions and prejudices in such cases. There can be no objective views. I understand that some of my views especially on these topics would not be accepted by many. The fact is that the views are not out of bias. But I also understand that I need to respect sentiments.So the best way as I said is to stay clear. ...
sravna, it is up to all of us to remain objective and not give in to emotions and prejudices. I don't agree with you that there can be no objective views in discussions of controversial topics. What happens often is one or two people muddy the water with name-calling and personally derisive comments, which then makes people stay away. If we can avoid this tendency then it is possible to discuss controversial topics in an objective way.

In this context, I can't accept a blanket rule of respecting sentiments. Over the top comments meant to hurt the sentiments must be avoided, with that I agree, but people must not shy away from reasonable, logical and coherent criticism of ideas and beliefs just because it may offend the sensitivities of some people.

When people make comments like this, i.e. the best way is to stay clear, I am reminded of Kanchana and Rajashree in Kathalikka Neramillai saying to Nagesh, "We don't see Tamil cinema, only English cinema" :). Who on earth would admit that their views are biased or prejudiced? Yet, we all have our biases and prejudices.

In my view, nobody can claim that only their views are completely free of bias or prejudice. What is needed is be aware of our own biases and prejudices and try to present as objective an argument as we can.

Cheers!
 

sravna

Well-known member
sravna, it is up to all of us to remain objective and not give in to emotions and prejudices. I don't agree with you that there can be no objective views in discussions of controversial topics. What happens often is one or two people muddy the water with name-calling and personally derisive comments, which then makes people stay away. If we can avoid this tendency then it is possible to discuss controversial topics in an objective way.


Cheers!

Dear Shri Nara,

As you rightly say that the last thing people want to admit is that they have prejudices. That being the fact, how can there be a rational discussion when opposing views both being prejudices clash? Even assuming that one of them is objective do you expect the other to admit it?
 
...As you rightly say that the last thing people want to admit is that they have prejudices. That being the fact, how can there be a rational discussion when opposing views both being prejudices clash? Even assuming that one of them is objective do you expect the other to admit it?
Sravna, all I am saying is do not simply paint everybody with a broad brush -- they all are biased and prejudiced, I am the only one who is free of biases. I don't agree that just because we bring our biases and prejudices, we cannot have an objective dialog.

Let us all try to overcome our biases and prejudices and engage in discussions in a rational way without fear of offending somebody's easily ruffled sensibilities and at the same time not engaging in unnecessary personal comments. This is possible if we try.

Cheers!
 
There is no point in fighting that we are good. We are never going to win that argument. We are also not going to lose anything in not fighting for it. Because only when you are too good, you are told that you are no good. That's present day pragmatism.

Well said Shri Sravna!!!

AFA I am concerned, I would completely agree with you on the above..We need not to fight. It is enough if we Hindus hold onto our belief and values and continue to live upto it. Internal genuinity and strength is what the most needed rather fighting tooth and nail with the external forces.



 
Dear Shri Yamaka,

Can you tell me what is common in the following?

I am a brahmin
I am an Indian
I am a Tamil
I did it
etc. etc.

The common thing is the "I". Are you able to see how the "I" or the ego is the real villain?. So your bragging is not as harmless as you think it to be. It is the root cause of everything that may be detrimental to you.

Thus it is ironical that while you attack supremacist feelings so vehemently, you don't mind feeding you ego which is the ultimate supremacist feeling.The identity with brahminism is only one way to bolster the opinion of yourself. But I would condemn that too.

Dear Sravna:

Let me first define what's id/ego:

Id:
the
part of the psyche,residing in the unconscious, that is the source of instinctive impulses that seek satisfaction in accordance with the pleasure principle and are modified by the ego and the superego before they are given overt expression.

ego: This is the overt expression of id in the conscious mind.. as Sigmund Freud says ego is where id resides in the brain.

You and your followers may detest the id/ego.. it's just impossible to overcome in any human being. That's a part of human personality.

In other words, "I" IS there in all human beings.. No exception. If your God and Religion can remove it, then it's fine with me... But impossible.

The non-existent God just can't change the basic human qualities, period.

Regarding my bragging - Yes, I enjoy bragging about various things.. Like if my hypothesis turns out to be correct, after experimentation, I brag about it to the smile and laughter of my peers.

My peers, happily say, "Y... you earned it, so you brag about it". This again is done in a sportive way; not "in your face" thrusting on somebody.

Are there people jealous of me? Yes, very many.. because I can see it in their eyes! What all they say is, "Oh, when can I EARN that bragging right? How come this Yamaka alone gets it often!"

No, ego is not the problem. It's the understanding of it is the problem.

Cheers.

ps. If you are comfortable with the "Brahmin Supremacist" -BS- feelings and opinion, enjoy it... as I opined before, as long as BS is there in the Society, Brahmin Bashing and Hatred will be lingering. The cycle needs to be broken.. Who has the courage to break this vicious cycle?

No one!
 
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That I have to agree with you..logical debate is lacking in most general discussion topics.
Sometimes even to fight we do need a "worthy" opponent.(Wow I am letting my ego grow!!LOL..thats fine isnt it..according to todays standards?)

Best policy is to let some people wolf around for most days of the month and by full moon we can play Werewolf!! and watch some Bhag Bhag!!!!LOL(just kidding)

images



Disclaimer: This post is a friendly chat between me and Sravna and not directed to anyone in specific.

The Hindu Squad is preparing for a Crusade!

People, run and hide! Otherwise, blood will be flowing! As per Sanatan Dharma!

ROFL.. then LOL.

:)
 

renuka

Well-known member
The Hindu Squad is preparing for a Crusade!

People, run and hide! Otherwise, blood will be flowing! As per Sanatan Dharma!

ROFL.. then LOL.

:)

Yo Dude!!! Thats the Spirit...next round it will be Vampires, that's eternal!!!

images
 

sravna

Well-known member
Dear Shri Yamaka,

You say it is impossible to banish ego. But have you ever tried sir to do that? I take from your definition of ego that its purpose is to seek and derive happiness from worldly deeds. Correct me if I am wrong. That is where the problem lies. You are probabaly one of the few fortunate ones who has not seen sufferings. For most of us everything is fine when the going is fine. But when calamities start hitting us, is when one needs the strength of character. Just as achievements lift your spirits, failures dip them.

For those who are really familiar with hinduism, they know why its teaching is so much of practical relevance. It is exactly because you are shown the way of how to handle sufferings gracefully. Since difficult periods are common for almost all of us, the teaching are so relevant for everyone. The logic is when you train yourself to be not affected by joy you simultaneously train yourself to be not affected by sufferings. You begin to find happiness not from external things but in the fulfilled inner self.
 
Dear Shri Yamaka,

You say it is impossible to banish ego. But have you ever tried sir to do that? I take from your definition of ego that its purpose is to seek and derive happiness from worldly deeds. Correct me if I am wrong. That is where the problem lies. You are probabaly one of the few fortunate ones who has not seen sufferings. For most of us everything is fine when the going is fine. But when calamities start hitting us, is when one needs the strength of character. Just as achievements lift your spirits, failures dip them.

For those who are really familiar with hinduism, they know why its teaching is so much of practical relevance. It is exactly because you are shown the way of how to handle sufferings gracefully. Since difficult periods are common for almost all of us, the teaching are so relevant for everyone. The logic is when you train yourself to be not affected by joy you simultaneously train yourself to be not affected by sufferings. You begin to find happiness not from external things but in the fulfilled inner self.

Dear Sravna:

1. Knowing what exactly id/ego is, NO, I have not tried to banish my EGO.. and I feel ego is an integral part of my personality, and I need it to grow further in my career.

Currently, my ego is "to discover something others have missed so long.. my attempt is to remove "all the transcriptional repressors" that block the the synthesis of mRNAs needed for learning and memory - if you can follow what I say.

2. I have met failures many times. That's things did not go the way I planned and/or the way I wanted.

How do I reconcile? I introspect calmly and figure out why things went bad.. I don't blame others for my failure.. I try to learn from my mistakes, and vow not to repeat the same mistakes.

Happiness and failure or suffering is how I take it.. I have a broad outlook in life and the world. I empathize with people who suffer mentally and emotionally. Whenever possible I get into their shoes and rationalize it.

3. From my wife I learn about Brahmin Hinduism: She says it is a Belief in the Super-Natural Power that controls ALL human activities in this birth and all births.

It has no room for FREE WILL for the individual.

As such, your trying to reduce your EGO will not work because it is the work of the God Almighty, she says.

Cheers.
 

sravna

Well-known member
Dear Shri Nara,

You are one person who I think, has sincere intentions when it comes to a debate. My view is that when people have a bias it simply means they have moved away from objectivity and hence the bias. With that being the case, I think their arguments will also be not objective and there would not be an agreement in opinions
 
Sravana Sir - Do you mean to say people with good and righteous character should not be else where; they should not be unknown and unsung? Good and bad and dirty people get "keerti". I believe there were thousand and thousand people living like Mahatma or a shade better without people standing aside to line their packets. It is not an aspersion on Gandhiji, but it is those people who made him Mahatma. I would like to say emphatically that there are Mahatmas in very ordinary people - unknown and unsung. Maybe in your own house!
 
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..... My view is that when people have a bias it simply means they have moved away from objectivity and hence the bias. With that being the case, I think their arguments will also be not objective and there would not be an agreement in opinions
sravna, I am skeptical of our ability to detect, in an unerring fashion, whether or not the arguments of a person is rooted in sincere beliefs or biases and prejudices. The only objective measure we have is whether the arguments are rational and civil, free of personal insults or derogatory comments. I think it is much better to look at an argument and assess its merits than launch on an assessment of biases and prejudices, which I think is a hopelessly difficult task.

My view is we need to set guidelines that can be measured in an objective fashion. Detecting derisive personal comments is much more easily detectable in an objective way than detecting biases and prejudices, even if one may suspect their presence.

Cheers!
 
I brought out a point that its not genetics but rather lifestyle that determines anyones intelligence and Sravna agreed with me.

[...]

In my college one of the best students was from Saudi Arabia.
Renu, some acquaintances or extended friends knew of students from saudi and palestine...heard they had a reputation of being very intelligent despite strugging with english language.

As for the rest of your post, thot of saying this from personal observation. I have cousins who are Bs and NBs. In the B families (and their extended-families), there are both, non-vegetarians and vegetarians (some of who do not even touch onions and garlic). Similarly, amongst the NBs also, there are vegetarians and non-vegetarians.

In this limited sample set, i find the average southie NB (irrespective of diet) displaying more EQ and IQ than northies (both Bs and NBs irrespective of their diet). Amongst the TBs, i find both, average people as well as high-IQ and EQ people. Here, By EQ i mean inter-personal and intra-personal intelligence, that is, capable of managing different types of people and different difficult types of situations. By IQ i mean technological innovativeness, or being creative or artistic in other areas.

The NB section is also far better placed in life. Despite plenty of money at disposal, studying under management seats, setting up good businesses, the younger generation of the B section has surprisingly, not done well, either in service or in business. Therefore i feel lifestyle (veggie-diet, prayers, cultural capital, monetary capital) plays no role in both, intelligence as well as making a successful life. Instead hardwork, perseverence, enterprising nature, self-motivation, consistently trying to improve upon oneself, makes a difference.

The idea that Bs are more intelligent and have a different lifestyle, is an idea found amongst tamilians. The same opinion is not shared by kannada and telugu speakers. In these linguistic groups, Bs are not seen as people different from themselves.

Anyone in this world can have supremacy feeling for any reason.
We still live in the world of duality.
Even if we Indians didnt have the caste system I am very sure as humans we would have found some other way to classify ourselves.
Agreed supremacy feeling can exist anywhere. That however is no excuse for justifying supremist ideology stemming from the violent social-organisation model of dharmashastras. Some Bs feel superior because of the shastras, a position which they accorded to themselves. Such a 'superiority' feeling is different from the 'earned' self-pride elsewhere, such as the kind seen in a topper student or a business-owner who bagged a big project due to their own efforts, and brag about it.

A supremist ideology based on birth, and heavily dependent on continued social organisation of the same kind, is a super recipe for self-created trouble.

Regards.
 
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Some tabras even today seem to have the feeling that merely by virtue of being brahmins, they possess a high intelligence. Some tinge of this superiority complex may be found in posts made by some of the members here.

To me it seems that this superiority feeling comes because of a certain nostalgia —a past in which the brahmins had superior knowledge and superhuman abilities as detailed in the Puranas and other mythology. Today's brahmins who have "inherited" those capabilities in a latent fashion, are however, unable to bring those powers to practice and usage; the reasons for this are many, including the abolition of caste, rise of aasuric powers like DMK/DK/AIADMK, brahmin bashers and so on and so forth. In short, it is a case of nāc na jāne āṃgan ṭeḍā!
 
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