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How did Universe form..?

So!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
It is just an unproven theory. What does it achieve? What is the purpose? How it is connected to the thread"
To be born as human being is a long process and the soul has to go many births and it can be in any form and it carries the past karmas in the present birth and the resultant happiness or otherwise. To term it unproven theory then why some are very successful and others are suffering and not all are equal.
Is there any process exists where one is judjed for ones happiness or sorrow in the modern world. The purpus of human life to get liberated from the cycle of birth and death and mostly it is wasted in pursuit of material comfert. It is strange some terms it unproven theory which indicate the lack of faith or understanding of our culture and civilisation. While the west is still struggling to prove rebirth our civilisation not only explains it and also the ways to liberated from this cycle.
 

prasad1

Active member
To be born as human being is a long process and the soul has to go many births and it can be in any form and it carries the past karmas in the present birth and the resultant happiness or otherwise. To term it unproven theory then why some are very successful and others are suffering and not all are equal.
Do we know why the universe is expanding? Is earth alone in the universe to have a lifeform?



Moreover, anthroposophic authors do not deny that human is physically inferior to other species in various respects. All our senses have animal counterparts that have a much bigger range. Think, for example, of the dog's nose, the elephant's hearing, the cat's whiskers with which they can scan their surroundings, or the eagle's eyesight. Some species even have sensory abilities which we humans do not share at all, like the perception of electrical fields, or echolocation1).
Motorially considered, we are also surpassed by all kinds of animals, which, for example, can run or swim much faster than us. We treat the airspace with airplanes and other flying machines, but naturally, we miss the organic wings of birds or bats.
Qua general physical constitution, humans are less well adapted to specific ecological circumstances, so our survival depends on clothing and other forms of shelter. Of course, the fact that we are not bound to a certain environment has been favorable to our evolutionary success, because the human species can survive almost everywhere. But, the fact that we can adapt to different environments, is primarily due to our mental abilities and not so much to special bodily features. As to our average lifetime, we are still being surpassed by for example tonga turtles and cockatoos. We can try to prolong our lifetime by genetic modification, but then again, only because of our intelligence.

Summarized, we can maintain ourselves as a species just fine with our bodies, but purely physically, we achieve less well than other species in many ways.


Is there any process exists where one is judjed for ones happiness or sorrow in the modern world. The purpus of human life to get liberated from the cycle of birth and death and mostly it is wasted in pursuit of material comfert. It is strange some terms it unproven theory which indicate the lack of faith or understanding of our culture and civilisation. While the west is still struggling to prove rebirth our civilisation not only explains it and also the ways to liberated from this cycle.
Mohanji,
I too used to believe in that theory. Then again I used to believe that Hanuman tried to swallow the sun. It is a fantasy. Has anyone come back from the liberated state and explained the true experience? If one wants to delude themselves that the East is better than the West, so be it.

How do we know that soul has to have multiple births? How do we know that Human birth is the highest? It is all man-made.

If Human birth is the highest why are we killing each other in the name of religion?
 
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Suresh ente sure

Active member
To be born as human being is a long process and the soul has to go many births and it can be in any form and it carries the past karmas in the present birth and the resultant happiness or otherwise. To term it unproven theory then why some are very successful and others are suffering and not all are equal.
Is there any process exists where one is judjed for ones happiness or sorrow in the modern world. The purpus of human life to get liberated from the cycle of birth and death and mostly it is wasted in pursuit of material comfert. It is strange some terms it unproven theory which indicate the lack of faith or understanding of our culture and civilisation. While the west is still struggling to prove rebirth our civilisation not only explains it and also the ways to liberated from this cycle.
It just unproven theory as said by prasad . It against logic . What is source of assumption liberation. It work totally against nature which acclimated humans
 

Suresh ente sure

Active member
To be born as human being is a long process and the soul has to go many births and it can be in any form and it carries the past karmas in the present birth and the resultant happiness or otherwise. To term it unproven theory then why some are very successful and others are suffering and not all are equal.
Is there any process exists where one is judjed for ones happiness or sorrow in the modern world. The purpus of human life to get liberated from the cycle of birth and death and mostly it is wasted in pursuit of material comfert. It is strange some terms it unproven theory which indicate the lack of faith or understanding of our culture and civilisation. While the west is still struggling to prove rebirth our civilisation not only explains it and also the ways to liberated from this cycle.
 
Do we know why the universe is expanding? Is earth alone in the universe to have a lifeform?



Moreover, anthroposophic authors do not deny that human is physically inferior to other species in various respects. All our senses have animal counterparts that have a much bigger range. Think, for example, of the dog's nose, the elephant's hearing, the cat's whiskers with which they can scan their surroundings, or the eagle's eyesight. Some species even have sensory abilities which we humans do not share at all, like the perception of electrical fields, or echolocation1).
Motorially considered, we are also surpassed by all kinds of animals, which, for example, can run or swim much faster than us. We treat the airspace with airplanes and other flying machines, but naturally, we miss the organic wings of birds or bats.
Qua general physical constitution, humans are less well adapted to specific ecological circumstances, so our survival depends on clothing and other forms of shelter. Of course, the fact that we are not bound to a certain environment has been favorable to our evolutionary success, because the human species can survive almost everywhere. But, the fact that we can adapt to different environments, is primarily due to our mental abilities and not so much to special bodily features. As to our average lifetime, we are still being surpassed by for example tonga turtles and cockatoos. We can try to prolong our lifetime by genetic modification, but then again, only because of our intelligence.

Summarized, we can maintain ourselves as a species just fine with our bodies, but purely physically, we achieve less well than other species in many ways.



Mohanji,
I too used to believe in that theory. Then again I used to believe that Hanuman tried to swallow the sun. It is a fantasy. Has anyone come back from the liberated state and explained the true experience? If one wants to delude themselves that the East is better than the West, so be it.

How do we know that soul has to have multiple births? How do we know that Human birth is the highest? It is all man-made.

If Human birth is the highest why are we killing each other in the name of religion?
These are few points one can look at.

1. mUkti is 'detachment'. That 'detachment' is liberation. When you attain mukti, you are able to see everything from a detached perspective. You watch it or observe it, but not affected by it. You develop the perspective of a catalyst and not the reactants.

2. But mukti is not easy for us human beings who are bound with 'self'- perspectives. It is actually impossible. bhakti or devotion on a divinity could lead to this detachment. Seeing from multiple perspectives could lead to this detachment. But then these are hard.

3. Those who attain mukti, the liberated souls, (read detached beings) never undergo 're-birth'. 'Birth' is undertaking a 'self', go through the pleasures and pains undergone by that self. Once detached, these are gone. So you renounce your birth.

4. In the above scheme, what we 'observe' detachedly is our reality. There is no ONE reality. Every observer, even when totally detachedly observing, has their own reality.

5. On top of it, the 'self' interacts with our realities and muddles it. Actually we cannot interact with our realities without affecting the reality itself. If you hear or see someone, your very fact of hearing or seeing, changes the reality for them. It happens even in quantum domain and is called wave function collapse. brhadharanyaka upanishad talks about it as 'cakSusa satyata'. Reality is based on observation.

6. Hence our 'realities' are so muddled, always getting muddled continuously and becomes very much experience based, which cannot be logically aligned in discussions.

7. Hence in modern science they promote an approach of hypothesizing, peer reviewing, mathematically modelling it, do experiments based on these hypothesis and models, testing and verifying etc etc, which gives as much as possible a detached perspective, though we start with hypothesis (which is very much attached to self, imaginative or intuitive).
 

sravna

Well-known member
Knowledge remains a tool till we get real detachment. It indirectly gives power and can be used for both good and bad. When knowledge is sought to get real detachment, it is directly power and bliss.
 

renuka

Well-known member
I dont think we need to take stories too literally.

For eg Hanuman trying to swallow the sun.
Lets try to look at puranas through different lenses.

According to yoga philosophy the sun represents the surya nadi( pingala nadi)

When one leaps up, its symbolic for upward movement of the surya nadi that is the prana flowing through the surya nadi leapt to go into the sushumna nadi.

So what happens next in the story?
Well, Indra sends a thunderbolts and Hanuman falls back to the ground.

So?? What does this mean?
When the prana through the surya nadi tries to leap into the sushumna the senses( Indra) tries to ground it because kundalini shakti always faces obstacles to rise fully.

Now at the same time, why did Hanuman not try to leap again?

There was no talk of Hanuman leaping to the moon as to represent Chandra nadi( Ida nadi)

So where is the Chandra nadi to balance the Surya nadi that leapt?

Well, Shree Rama's full name is Ramachandra( one who delights like a full moon)..hence symbolic for Chandra nadi.

Do we realize that only after Hanuman submitted in Dasa bhakti to Shree Ramachandra that Sita conferred Hanuman the Ashtasiddhi ability?

Again, its clear that both Surya nadi and Chandra nadi were in balance and Ma Shakti could rise in the Sushumna nadi and one attains Ashtasiddhi.

Most stories are highly symbolic, we need to wait for decoding to occur.
 

sravna

Well-known member
I dont think we need to take stories too literally.

For eg Hanuman trying to swallow the sun.
Lets try to look at puranas through different lenses.

According to yoga philosophy the sun represents the surya nadi( pingala nadi)

When one leaps up, its symbolic for upward movement of the surya nadi that is the prana flowing through the surya nadi leapt to go into the sushumna nadi.

So what happens next in the story?
Well, Indra sends a thunderbolts and Hanuman falls back to the ground.

So?? What does this mean?
When the prana through the surya nadi tries to leap into the sushumna the senses( Indra) tries to ground it because kundalini shakti always faces obstacles to rise fully.

Now at the same time, why did Hanuman not try to leap again?

There was no talk of Hanuman leaping to the moon as to represent Chandra nadi( Ida nadi)

So where is the Chandra nadi to balance the Surya nadi that leapt?

Well, Shree Rama's full name is Ramachandra( one who delights like a full moon)..hence symbolic for Chandra nadi.

Do we realize that only after Hanuman submitted in Dasa bhakti to Shree Ramachandra that Sita conferred Hanuman the Ashtasiddhi ability?

Again, its clear that both Surya nadi and Chandra nadi were in balance and Ma Shakti could rise in the Sushumna nadi and one attains Ashtasiddhi.

Most stories are highly symbolic, we need to wait for decoding to occur.
Very well said Renuka.
 

renuka

Well-known member
Very well said Renuka.
Thanks...just that at times we have to " wait" for answers.
Then we can understand interconnectivity of sequence of events that lead to unfolding of some purana stories.
But it is not just one interpretation...the same story could unfold differently to reveal a different dimension.

So rigidly fixing our thoughts actually clouds our ability to perceive and we end up taking purana stories too literally and miss the point.

But at the same time we cant deny that the puranas are mostly not transmitted in an unfolding format and all of us were at some time guilty of being a tad bit too literal in our understanding.
 
It just unproven theory as said by prasad . It against logic . What is source of assumption liberation. It work totally against nature which acclimated humans
As said earlier it shows the lack of faith in our culture which well established over thousands of years. In recent time NASA brought out the sound captured by them from SUN and they mention the sound OM mentioned by hindus. Now shall one consider this as unproven theory. It is the attitude of present generation only to accept what the west dishes out while ignoring the treasure of knowledge our culture offers
 

Suresh ente sure

Active member
As said earlier it shows the lack of faith in our culture which well established over thousands of years. In recent time NASA brought out the sound captured by them from SUN and they mention the sound OM mentioned by hindus. Now shall one consider this as unproven theory. It is the attitude of present generation only to accept what the west dishes out while ignoring the treasure of knowledge our culture offers
It has proven as myth . I am attaching the youtube of nasa with sound of sun .
 
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As said earlier it shows the lack of faith in our culture which well established over thousands of years. In recent time NASA brought out the sound captured by them from SUN and they mention the sound OM mentioned by hindus. Now shall one consider this as unproven theory. It is the attitude of present generation only to accept what the west dishes out while ignoring the treasure of knowledge our culture offers
Actually that's one of the 'internet folktale' or 'whatsapp university' knowledge. The problem with such messages are they mask the true knowledge and make everything as some folktale or pseudo-science.

Sun does not produce sound, nor sound moves in vacuum. Sound or acoustic vibrations are forms of mechanical energy in the auditory range, which are produced when something physically moves through in space. When scientists map the masses discharged from the center of sun, they 'map' this discharges to a frequency pattern, which looks like a hormonics and any harmonics when played in the auditory range, hears 'hmmm..' - This is what is being folktaled into Aum in whatsapp university and many psuedo-science channels.

Basically this kind of folktaling leads to ridicule in scientific circles and eventually a dis-interest in all vedic scriptures. Ofcourse present generation will accept only what west dishes out, because there is too much of non-sense floating around attributing them to our scriptures.

The praNava Aum was supposed to be the primordial sound out of which Universe came.

In reality such a primordial sound existed and seeded the Universe as we see it now. When scientists try to explain how matter aggregation happened in the early Universe, they talk about a 'sound' that emanated through the baryon-photon mix that existed in primordial universe, aggregating baryons in different regions of space and these aggregations became the 'seeds' for galaxies when Universe expanded.

They call this sound baryon acoustic oscillation.
 

sravna

Well-known member
Actually that's one of the 'internet folktale' or 'whatsapp university' knowledge. The problem with such messages are they mask the true knowledge and make everything as some folktale or pseudo-science.

Sun does not produce sound, nor sound moves in vacuum. Sound or acoustic vibrations are forms of mechanical energy in the auditory range, which are produced when something physically moves through in space. When scientists map the masses discharged from the center of sun, they 'map' this discharges to a frequency pattern, which looks like a hormonics and any harmonics when played in the auditory range, hears 'hmmm..' - This is what is being folktaled into Aum in whatsapp university and many psuedo-science channels.

Basically this kind of folktaling leads to ridicule in scientific circles and eventually a dis-interest in all vedic scriptures. Ofcourse present generation will accept only what west dishes out, because there is too much of non-sense floating around attributing them to our scriptures.

The praNava Aum was supposed to be the primordial sound out of which Universe came.

In reality such a primordial sound existed and seeded the Universe as we see it now. When scientists try to explain how matter aggregation happened in the early Universe, they talk about a 'sound' that emanated through the baryon-photon mix that existed in primordial universe, aggregating baryons in different regions of space and these aggregations became the 'seeds' for galaxies when Universe expanded.

They call this sound baryon acoustic oscillation.

i would like to follow up on Shri TBTs post. Logic is great but beyond a point it will not work unless we upgrade it. In the higher realm logic as we know is worse than nonsense. It simply fails to work. Hence the need to upgrade not only knowledge but also the tools and techniques for acquiring it.
 

Suresh ente sure

Active member
i would like to follow up on Shri TBTs post. Logic is great but beyond a point it will not work unless we upgrade it. In the higher realm logic as we know is worse than nonsense. It simply fails to work. Hence the need to upgrade not only knowledge but also the tools and techniques for acquiring it.
Higher realm dont make sense as nothing can be seen my bare eye
 

sravna

Well-known member
Higher realm dont make sense as nothing can be seen my bare eye
Dear Suresh,

There is incredibly lot more to reality than can be seen by eyes or other sense organs. Human beings have the precious faculty of mind through which they can perceive what cannot be seen by eyes. If knowledge has to be expanded beyond a level you should have to get past your eyes. The problem is we believe if one cannot sense by sense organs it is not universally applicable. There is some truth in it. But not all knowledge has to be universally proceed in the same direction. We mistake direction for destination. To perceive higher or spiritual truths one can and need to take his or her own direction but the destination of all will be the same.
 

renuka

Well-known member
i would like to follow up on Shri TBTs post. Logic is great but beyond a point it will not work unless we upgrade it. In the higher realm logic as we know is worse than nonsense. It simply fails to work. Hence the need to upgrade not only knowledge but also the tools and techniques for acquiring it.
Sravna..everything is existence has its Dharma.
The problem is we at times feel logic= Dharma.

Actually there is no higher or lower realms but there are different realms which function in alignment with their respective Dharma with different frequencies.

So there can never be " nonsense".

Logic is the language human mind in the mode of analysis and intellectualization.

Subtler realms too have their language of subtle mode of functiom but mostly in a revelation mode.

You should consider reading works of Ibn Arabi..he explains revelation function well.

Last but not least logic and analysis is subject to change but the substratum of reality a.k.a God/ Consciousness/ Brahman is an unchanging one where no human would know its mechanics because at the final stage
there is "none but Him"( la ilaha illa huwa).
Ekam advitiyam Brahman.
 
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