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Girl's Education/Employment and Marriage -Evolution -I

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Ravi,

I am not against comparison. Even today Japanese accept joint family concept where elders are taken care of by youngsters. It is identical to our culture.

But in the western world, once a boy or girls attains a certain age, they are forced live separately from parents.

India has one of the least divorce rates in the whole world. By adopting the western culture blindly, we may have to open more family courts and orphanages. Only lawyers will thrive and society will lose.

Let us objectively compare and try to emulate best portion of each and every culture. I always accept `Honey Bee' principle of getting the best honey out of every flower.

All the best

[FONT=&quot]Well said Sri RVR ji.

But unfortunately the fact is, people tend to chose the one that got more fantasies and justify the deeds with the subject of science, human anatomy and freedom of one's requirements in par with any living species on this earth.

In due course of time, I think there would not be any variations in Indian culture and American culture in all the aspects. Today we may not be blindly following the American culture as we got changed recently and could realize the impact. In due course of time, we tend to keep pace with the western culture and in one fine day would be equaling ourselves with American family systems. Children would be isolated and made to be responsible and independent of parents etc, and we would be requiring lots of child psychologists and sexologists.


[/FONT]

Wish we could retain our culture ever...
 
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Dear Shri. sankara_sharmah, Greetings!

.... Hardly anyone has married a Hindu leave alone a Brahmin. The brahmins will be dissolved in the melting pot that is U.S.A.

the above observation is very true. Most second generation Indian kids choose their own spouses and in most cases the parents go along with it. Sometimes they even proudly proclaim their kid-in-law is a strict veg, etc.

Liberation of women or education does not mean the liberty of sleeping with anyone and contempt for the idea of marriage.
I see three issues being conflated here, (i) feminism, (ii) sleeping with anyone, and (iii) contempt for the idea of marriage. While it is possible that these three may all be true for some women, and IMO there is nothing wrong with this, but for many women they don't.

Feminism is about equal opportunity and rights regardless of gender. Feminists are those who subscribe to this idea. Not all women are feminists, and there are many men who are feminists.

Sleeping with anyone is something very personal. Nobody has the right to judge. One may try to impress upon her to use safety, but nothing more.

The idea of marriage is not related to the proclivity of an individual to sleep with anyone. If I am permitted to hazard a guess, between men and women, men are more likely to be married and also sleep with other women. Such behavior by men, when engaged with sex workers, leads to spreading of decease to unsuspecting wife. It seems Tamil Nadu leads India in this phenomenon with the largest incidence of HIV cases. So, a little contempt for marriage is probably a good thing if the person easily gives in to this urge to sleep with anyone.


If that is what is meant by liberation the Anglo Indian community is the most liberated in India.
Really!!! yak!!!!

Brahmins are considered to be intellectuals.
Your colorful "My Foot" seems apt for the above observation.

Cheers!
 
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... But my sons, who are abroad, tell me that despite all that is projected by cinemas, magazines, books etc., the majority of the middle classes in US, and more so in UK, live within sexual mores akin to ours after marriage, the only differences being 1) there are no arranged marriages, and,2) divorces are common and not looked down upon...

Dear Shri sangom, of course you are correct!

Many people have no idea what life is like in the U.S., yet they all have firm and unshakable views about the prevailing mores in the U.S. Knowledge from brief visits give them a great deal of confidence that they are right.

The fact is, Americans, and perhaps west in general, take sexual fidelity of both partners within a marriage much more seriously than in India. This probably contributes to the divorce statistics. Neither the man nor the woman will suffer cheating. In India,invariably the man is exempted from such risks.

Another misconception about U.S. is the notion that family bonds are not as strong as in India. In India, the parents smother their children, particularly sons, to the extent they feel lost without the constant guidance from their parents. In the U.S. most young kids upon reaching 18 opt to live independently to lessen the financial burden for their parents. They mostly live very close by and help each other out as they grow old. Family connections are just as strong, but they stay out of each others hair in their daily activities.

One more thing, the notion that Indian families are a tight knit group is mostly myth. They are at each others throats most of the times, especially TB families. Many older folks want to live by themselves because they cannot get along with their d-i-ls. We talked about this sometime back in a different thread.

None of these are clear cut, there are many shades of gray.

Cheers!
 
from the information available in Internet,it appears Tamil Brahmin "diverse" is Not at all a problem,requiring such elaborate discussions--making a mountain out of a mollhill.Out of 35 countries listed in 2010-in Diverse rates, Sweden leads with a highest diverse rate,USA coming next and surprisingly Puerto-rica taking the 3 rd place.India is NOT at all in the List.Sri Lanka is 35 th Country (0.15 per thousand--It appears India would come around 0.11 per thousand).From another site Bombay stands first-followed by Calcutta,Delhi,Bangalore and then Chennai.Probably Hyderabad and Chandigarh may compete with Chennai.I do not know about Trivandrum.Ofcourse the figure given for Chennai is around 6000 to 7500 cases pending.I could NOT get any data for TBs--the informaion 45% 0ut of 6000-7500 may be correct.Any how the figure is a definitely a matter of concern for TBs--It is reported that all over India, the sudden spurt in broken marriages MAY be due to a large number of girls pursuing Engineering education,I.T.profession and the "Economical Independence" the girls enjoy.Parents,especiaaly mothers are Not accustomed to Rs 30-40 thousand p.m.salaries. so they do not have much influence on both boys and girls.We hope that this may be a Passing Phase and hope for the best.There are two sides--happy side is large number of girls getting higher education(Bharathi's dream) and there can not be and should Not be a going back--dark side is family values getting eroded.Councelling and open public discussions in Media may help.
 
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Dear Shri sangom, of course you are correct!

Many people have no idea what life is like in the U.S., yet they all have firm and unshakable views about the prevailing mores in the U.S. Knowledge from brief visits give them a great deal of confidence that they are right.

The fact is, Americans, and perhaps west in general, take sexual fidelity of both partners within a marriage much more seriously than in India. This probably contributes to the divorce statistics. Neither the man nor the woman will suffer cheating. In India,invariably the man is exempted from such risks.

Another misconception about U.S. is the notion that family bonds are not as strong as in India. In India, the parents smother their children, particularly sons, to the extent they feel lost without the constant guidance from their parents. In the U.S. most young kids upon reaching 18 opt to live independently to lessen the financial burden for their parents. They mostly live very close by and help each other out as they grow old. Family connections are just as strong, but they stay out of each others hair in their daily activities.

One more thing, the notion that Indian families are a tight knit group is mostly myth. They are at each others throats most of the times, especially TB families. Many older folks want to live by themselves because they cannot get along with their d-i-ls. We talked about this sometime back in a different thread.

None of these are clear cut, there are many shades of gray.

Cheers!

nara

truly an awesome post from you.truth being discussed threadbare.divorce is high becoz both partners do not tolerate infidelity in west is 100 % truth.while in india men got away with sheer murder of womens emotional needs being put on stake.

the youtube film is so awesome too.my father died of heart attack,when he tried to save the honor of an old widow lady,when she was disrespected while having lunch,similiar to this scene in the movies,brahmins are abhistoos like this too in the movie:bump:

as far women being tied like a cow,paavam cows why drag them here too,as it is in the west,they are delicious omaha steak or steakhouse or...some such beefy joint....mooooooooooo
 
I don't agree with the view that USA or any other western world is the ultimate destination for culture and values.

Substantial portion of the TB community is in gulf, Singapore, Africa and other neighbouring countries. They continue to maintain the traditons. Since they visit more offen to their homes as compared to their US counterparts, they have closer relationships with their home country. Since gulf countries doesn't offer citizenship, their investments are made only in India which makes them more aligned to home country.

There are excellent educational institutions in Singapore, Dubai etc. NUS and NTU in Singapore have global rankings. Dubai has campuses of most of the international universities. London Business School has a campus at Dubai.

Living standards in these countries are no way inferior to western world. Singapore and Dubai are much safer to live as compared to USA. People living in these countries are not attracted to local girls or boys and mostly marriages are settled within Indian communities.

If we have to combine the best of Western Systems and Indian culture, I earnestly feel that non-western countries offer better proposition.

Personally I prefer Western Systems and Eastern cultures. I don't like western culture and Indian systems.

All the best
 
We hope that this may be a Passing Phase and hope for the best.There are two sides--happy side is large number of girls getting higher education(Bharathi's dream) and there can not be and should Not be a going back--dark side is family values getting eroded.Councelling and open public discussions in Media may help.

This may or may not be a passing phase because, as far as my knowledge goes, many of the marriage break-ups happening nowadays here in India among our TBs is due to the fact that the girl, highly educated and well-employed, demands more freedom in all matters - both personal and family-related - than what the boy (husband) is prepared to allow himself or because of the emotional domination of his mother over him. If the mothers of boys understand this or if the boys are able to get over their mothers' domination over them, the situation will definitely improve.

Having said that, when we view the matter from the mothers' side, she has brought up her (in some cases, only) son in the ernest hope that he will be a support and succour for her in old age and here the d-i-l shows, from the very beginning, enough indications to the effect that the in-laws are not wanted. Hence the mother tries to ensure that she is not left a destitute in her last days. I have seen counselling being successful in some cases but in many of them there is a stipulation that the husband's parents should stay separately so that the couple will find a way to iron out their differences in due course.

This, therefore, is a very complicated problem of our society here and no easy, readymade solution can be prescribed.

Sometimes, the girl's parents also encourage their daughter, especially if she is in a highly paid job, to enforce her rights in her new household ruthlessly and not to mind any break-up, because they probably feel that-

1. as the law stands today in India, it is in the girl's (wife's) hands to give or not to give a divorce, whereas she can easily get a divorce on the grounds of harassment for dowry or mental cruelty, whereas it is an uphill task for the husband to get a divorce.

2. even after divorce, the girl - always an "innocent divorcee" - can get re-married without much difficulty, particularly if there is no child born of the divorced alliance, because of the shortage of girls, a topic being discussed in detail elsewhere in this forum.

3. even if the daughter happens to stay for quite sometime with the parents in the interim, the latter will not find it difficult because she (daughter) will be able to meet all the legal etc., expenses out of her own earnings.
 
This may or may not be a passing phase because, as far as my knowledge goes, many of the marriage break-ups happening nowadays here in India among our TBs is due to the fact that the girl, highly educated and well-employed, demands more freedom in all matters - both personal and family-related - than what the boy (husband) is prepared to allow himself or because of the emotional domination of his mother over him. If the mothers of boys understand this or if the boys are able to get over their mothers' domination over them, the situation will definitely improve.

Having said that, when we view the matter from the mothers' side, she has brought up her (in some cases, only) son in the ernest hope that he will be a support and succour for her in old age and here the d-i-l shows, from the very beginning, enough indications to the effect that the in-laws are not wanted. Hence the mother tries to ensure that she is not left a destitute in her last days. I have seen counselling being successful in some cases but in many of them there is a stipulation that the husband's parents should stay separately so that the couple will find a way to iron out their differences in due course.

This, therefore, is a very complicated problem of our society here and no easy, readymade solution can be prescribed.

Sometimes, the girl's parents also encourage their daughter, especially if she is in a highly paid job, to enforce her rights in her new household ruthlessly and not to mind any break-up, because they probably feel that-

1. as the law stands today in India, it is in the girl's (wife's) hands to give or not to give a divorce, whereas she can easily get a divorce on the grounds of harassment for dowry or mental cruelty, whereas it is an uphill task for the husband to get a divorce.

2. even after divorce, the girl - always an "innocent divorcee" - can get re-married without much difficulty, particularly if there is no child born of the divorced alliance, because of the shortage of girls, a topic being discussed in detail elsewhere in this forum.

3. even if the daughter happens to stay for quite sometime with the parents in the interim, the latter will not find it difficult because she (daughter) will be able to meet all the legal etc., expenses out of her own earnings.
hi sangom sir.
well said...its 100% reality.....its happening in real world...the
attitude of girl's mother has to change...sometimes she
support/even helping for divorce....by emotionally/financially...
the girl has to decide about her life/future/family/career....
in this case even GOD cannot help....

regards
tbs
 
I don't agree with the view that USA or any other western world is the ultimate destination for culture and values.

Substantial portion of the TB community is in gulf, Singapore, Africa and other neighbouring countries. They continue to maintain the traditons. Since they visit more offen to their homes as compared to their US counterparts, they have closer relationships with their home country. Since gulf countries doesn't offer citizenship, their investments are made only in India which makes them more aligned to home country.

There are excellent educational institutions in Singapore, Dubai etc. NUS and NTU in Singapore have global rankings. Dubai has campuses of most of the international universities. London Business School has a campus at Dubai.

Living standards in these countries are no way inferior to western world. Singapore and Dubai are much safer to live as compared to USA. People living in these countries are not attracted to local girls or boys and mostly marriages are settled within Indian communities.

If we have to combine the best of Western Systems and Indian culture, I earnestly feel that non-western countries offer better proposition.

Personally I prefer Western Systems and Eastern cultures. I don't like western culture and Indian systems.

All the best
:yo:
 
somaiya, sangom,

i detect a bias against the woman in your posts.

i think this is a hangover from the past, that the dil is a defacto servant and nurse for the mother in law. she is supposed to be the life insurance guarantee also these days, with her income.

why don't we switch the sexes. will the boys be willing to accept such roles in their in law houses? why should the boy feel superior to the girl?

there is no place for in laws to live with their children with this types of attitudes. many instances now, there are only girls children. don't they too have a right to take care of THEIR parents?

overall, while i feel extremely sorry for the boys without brides, when i see the attitudes of the boys' parents, their perceived loss of free old age care, the loss of income earned and above all bragging rights of all this to their immediate family, i am not at all surprised that many girls want to call it quits.

let there be serious attitude change. i have yet to hear inthis forum, of one, ie ONE boy's parent, willing to foot the entire marriage bill. or even offering to share 50%. truly sirs, when will these attitudes change, before it is too late? or is already too late to turn the clocks?
 
rvr,
I don't agree with the view that USA or any other western world is the ultimate destination for culture and values.

east or west,north or south all cultures are unique.and girls are honored everywhere these days.

Substantial portion of the TB community is in gulf, Singapore, Africa and other neighbouring countries. They continue to maintain the traditons. Since they visit more offen to their homes as compared to their US counterparts, they have closer relationships with their home country. Since gulf countries doesn't offer citizenship, their investments are made only in India which makes them more aligned to home country.

gulf countries,dao not give out citizenship,afik.naturally indians will have to return to india and therefore all investments must be made in india.there are some who migrate to canada,australia,usa,uk.....and other such countries wherein people are welcomed to live as citizens instead of just coolies workers in gulf,which islam is famous for.

There are excellent educational institutions in Singapore, Dubai etc. NUS and NTU in Singapore have global rankings. Dubai has campuses of most of the international universities. London Business School has a campus at Dubai.

indian parents resding in dubai send their children to usa for higher studies,at least the affluent ones do.singapore immigration is not easy either like malaysia.indonesia is another destination indians flock to also.

Living standards in these countries are no way inferior to western world. Singapore and Dubai are much safer to live as compared to USA. People living in these countries are not attracted to local girls or boys and mostly marriages are settled within Indian communities.

all these countries adapted from western country the technological advancement.india took a late decision to open its market,as our political leaders thot socialistic pattern of russian model would suit our country better,therefore al white elephants in goverment sector is sucking away resources with poor service to citizens,plus corruption from top to bottom.

If we have to combine the best of Western Systems and Indian culture, I earnestly feel that non-western countries offer better proposition.

indian system is best for indians.lets explore what our indian system is,instead of constantly borrowing from other countries hard work and intelligence.

Personally I prefer Western Systems and Eastern cultures. I don't like western culture and Indian systems.

All the best

true.girls education is also an indian system only,as is evident when mandana mishras wife was arbitrator between her husband and adi sankara.so,adopt indian system for overall progress,even if its bullock cart technology.
 
....Can you pl. explain what is "tadeeyaradanam lunch"? Is it that some exercise like the 'smaartha vichaaram" was there among TBs also?

Dear Shri sangom,

no, no, nothing so grand! It is just a fancy phrase for mid-day meal offered to SV bhagavathas. SV families and institutions do this on special occasions. SV matams do it everyday.

SV matams perform three Aradhanams everyday, Abhigamanam, Ijjai, and Panaka Aradhanam. Abhigamanam is an elaborate affair at the end of which prasadam is distributed. In earlier times it used to be dadiannam served right into cupped palm. With a glob of dadiannam in the cupped palm of both hands one is supposed to consume it without making எச்சை -- a tough task indeed. After finishing, the large stone columns with years of accumulated ஜிட்டு is used to rub the palms clean.

But these days, with increasing deposits from abroad, after abhigamanam, everyone is given a தையல் இலை and served a variety of fare, பொங்கல், பஞ்சாம்ருதம், etc., and of course, dadiannam. You are supposed to not place the இலை on the ground to eat as that will create எச்சை requiring ritual cleansing. Of course some of the proud weekend brahmins, oblivious to this little etiquette detail, blissfully put their இலை on the ground and start eating only to have the wrath of the orthodoxy come down on them like a load of 16 tons.

Then comes ijjai aradhanam, which is performed about 11 o'clock. After that a formal lunch is served. This is called ததீயாராதனம். After ஆராதனம் of the Lord, next comes ஆராதனம் of பாகவதா. This scene is very similar to the video clip showing the Namboodris having lunch. Male Brahmins, NBs and women are clearly separated. Male Brahmins are served first. After the meal, பெருமாள் தீர்த்தம் is served to male Brahmins only, and that marks the end of the meal. Males get up and walk away. Women are supposed to take their own இலை and a few of the எச்சில் இலை of male brahmins. To make sure this happens an announcement is usually made exhorting the women to do this.

Panaka aradhanam is done in the evening.

Many years ago, in my poorvashrama :) as a devout SV, I wrote a series of articles detailing everything that happens in Srimat Ahobila Matam. If you are interested you may download the collection from here.

Much more than what you wanted I guess, I am sorry....
 
somaiya, sangom,

i detect a bias against the woman in your posts.

Dear Kunjuppu Sir,

If you found any bias against women in my post, it was not my intention; I wanted to describe what is actually happening in so many instances. BTW, there are two women here, m-i-l and d-i-l; did my post sound having bias against both categories?

i think this is a hangover from the past, that the dil is a defacto servant and nurse for the mother in law. she is supposed to be the life insurance guarantee also these days, with her income.
That was not said by me and I don't think the m-i-ls today here in India expect such a thing now. What the m-i-l is afraid of is the d-i-l prevailing over her husband and putting the m-i-l in an old age home. Incidentally, last week or so, the Asianet channel showed the granddaughter of C.P. Ramaswamy Iyer in an orphanage-cum-old age home in Pathanamthitta, Kerala; that lady was unwilling to say anything about why and how she had to come there.

why don't we switch the sexes. will the boys be willing to accept such roles in their in law houses? why should the boy feel superior to the girl?
I presume that you are located abroad and are not aware of the present situation here. Recently a marriage has been agreed to on the condition put forward by the girl at the time of "penn paarkkal" to the effect that the boy's parents may come as occasional visitors but their stay should not exceed more than a week, while her parents will be free to come and stay with the couple for as long as they wanted! Initially the boy had reservations in accepting these stipulations but later he and his parents consented; of course, now that the marriage is over they don't admit that such an incident happened.

In another case - and I am referring to TB marriages only - there was serious shortage of food and many people invited by the boy's side had to return without meals. The girl happened to hear some people complaining to her m-i-l about this, and after a few days (less than a week) the girl left the house in a huff saying she did not want to hear any complaint about her parents. This case has gone to the divorce stage now!

there is no place for in laws to live with their children with this types of attitudes. many instances now, there are only girls children. don't they too have a right to take care of THEIR parents?
Here again I feel you are not aware of the ground realities here. As just one example, I know a case where the wife's parents have come permanently to stay with their daughter and s-i-l and the boy's (husband's) parents have shifted to another house because the son's house is small and cannot accommodate the three pairs and two grown-up children.The wife's parents generally call the shots now and no one is complaining that it should not be so. Even when the old couple have two or even three sons, they are now spending their old age with their daughter/s and this will be OK as and when it becomes universal and those who have only sons and no daughters will, automatically, go to the old age homes.

overall, while i feel extremely sorry for the boys without brides, when i see the attitudes of the boys' parents, their perceived loss of free old age care, the loss of income earned and above all bragging rights of all this to their immediate family, i am not at all surprised that many girls want to call it quits.
Despite the changes which have come about so far, if you still feel the villains are the boys' parents, well, you are surely entitled to that view.

let there be serious attitude change. i have yet to hear inthis forum, of one, ie ONE boy's parent, willing to foot the entire marriage bill. or even offering to share 50%. truly sirs, when will these attitudes change, before it is too late? or is already too late to turn the clocks?
In more than a few cases the expense for food, i.e., the breakfast and meals, is shared on a rough pro-rata basis (not 50-50) particularly where the boy's side expect more invitees and the girl's side has comparatively less. In addition, there is some ostentatious expense in gifting the "sambandhis" (girl's parents) with costly silk saree, veshti+angavastram of a quality matching the bridegroom's attire. In addition, the boy's side nowadays present the inner family circle of the bride (athai-athimbar, mama-mami, chithi-chithappa (paternal & maternal), sibling/s of the bride and their children etc.,) and spend a considerable amount on this, even if there is no matching gifts from the girl's side. I suppose this is a good beginning and sharing the entire expense is not far away.
 
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Thank you Sri Nara. When it comes to new information and knowledge my appetite is as good as I might have for a "sadya" (feast in Malayalam)!
 
Many years ago, in my poorvashrama :) as a devout SV, I wrote a series of articles detailing everything that happens in Srimat Ahobila Matam. If you are interested you may download the collection from here.

Much more than what you wanted I guess, I am sorry....

YouTube - Ivruksha's Channel

when i viewed this,i was reminded of your poorva-ashrama as a devout SV.wondering now,about you nara:popcorn:
 
sangom,

thank you for your detailed post. surely the clock has turned 180 degrees!!

some of the script looks they have been written 50 years ago for my aunt's marriage, except ofcourse it was the girl's side taking the licking.

you may be surprised that i still have relatives in chennai, who are of the old stock, ie believe that the girl's side should be subservient to the boy's side.

i attended a wedding recently, and did my utmost to 'educate' my cousin, who is the girl's mother. no amount of 'educating' would convince her. she brushed me off, telling me to take and keep my standards back to canada. and leave india alone :)
 
sangom,

thank you for your detailed post. surely the clock has turned 180 degrees!!

some of the script looks they have been written 50 years ago for my aunt's marriage, except ofcourse it was the girl's side taking the licking.

you may be surprised that i still have relatives in chennai, who are of the old stock, ie believe that the girl's side should be subservient to the boy's side.

i attended a wedding recently, and did my utmost to 'educate' my cousin, who is the girl's mother. no amount of 'educating' would convince her. she brushed me off, telling me to take and keep my standards back to canada. and leave india alone :)

As you know, my experience is only with the smartha and, among this group, in Chennai also the girls' side have been quite assertive for some years now, especially since the time the shortage of girls surfaced to public view and the boys' parents started approaching the parents of the girls for jatakam. The functions have also undergone some changes; the tiffin in the previous evening is now confined to the bridegroom's immediate circle only and not for one and all, that too in case they (groom's party) come from another city/place, 'jaanavaasam' in old cars has restarted with newfound vigour because the boys and girls, from the IT sector particularly, (and therefore copied by others also), seem to have a penchant for it as also for "nalungu" (which had gone out of vogue some time ago) and most of the bridegroom's party leave after the evening meals on the day of marriage itself, which is, in some cases at least, at the groom's cost. The traditional meals given to the girl's side on the next day by the groom's side (I think it is known as "sambandhi saappaadu", not sure) is thus taken care of and "kattu saadam" is given to the people from the boy's side leaving in the evening without waiting for meals; usually the same stuff is given the next day, well-packed in the most modern disposable containers, to the boy's party leaving the next morning and it is one's luck if one finds it edible when he opens it in the train at noon!

I presume you belong to non-smartha group. May be that is why these changes have not come to your notice.
 
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Kunjupu:-(quote)"somaiya, sangom,

i detect a bias against the woman in your posts. (en-quote)

This is surpricing.I hought ,I am arguing the women's case.may be there is some flaw in my presentation

By the by:- I don't mind that i am calles Soma,Somaiya etc."ji" in my surname does not convey any "respectful" suffix like Pandey ji,Guha ji etc."Somayajin" is a combination of Two words--Soma+Yaajin=Somayajin--Yaajin means one who has performed a Yaagam or Yagjnam--my great grand father performed Soma Yaagam on the advice of sri-la-sri.Abhinava Nrsimha Bharathi of Sringeri sri.Saradha Peetam.Soma is a herb described in Vedham.my colleague Dr.Usman Ali,a Pharmacognosist ,from the description of the plant in Vedham(Dr.Ali is well versed in Sanskrit) feels Soma is "Seendhil Kodi"(a creeper) in Tamil.he has published a paper on this.But this is contested.
 
....the girl, highly educated and well-employed, demands more freedom in all matters -

Dear Shri sangom,

IMO, girl power is here to stay and in the long run we will all be better off for it, or we will all be girls -- with pregnancy initiated by in vetro means, and chromosome screening (see below) to ensure only girl babies, who needs men anyway. Once an endless supply of sperms is inventoried, men become redundant pests.

Here is an intriguing article appearing in Atlantic Magazine presenting the widening gender gap with boys falling behind, much like the TB boys unable to keep up with the drive, initiative, and ambition of TB girls. It is a long article, so let me give some excerpts.


  • In the 1970s the biologist Ronald Ericsson came up with a way to separate sperm carrying the male-producing Y chromosome from those carrying the X....
  • In the ’90s, in the clinics that use his process, couples were requesting more girls than boys, .... the ratio is now as high as 2 to 1.
  • A newer method for sperm selection, called MicroSort, is currently completing Food and Drug Administration clinical trials. The girl requests for that method run at about 75 percent.
  • Ericsson says, “Women live longer than men. They do better in this economy. More of ’em graduate from college. They go into space and do everything men do, and sometimes they do it a whole lot better —these females are going to leave us males in the dust.”
  • [In} South Korea, [a]s recently as 1985, about half of all women in a national survey said they “must have a son.” That percentage fell slowly until 1991 and then plummeted to just over 15 percent by 2003.
  • The same shift is now beginning in other rapidly industrializing countries such as India and China.
  • ...the economics of the new era are better suited to women? ... the evidence is all around you.
  • Earlier this year, for the first time in American history, the balance of the workforce tipped toward women, who now hold a majority of the nation’s jobs.
  • Women dominate today’s colleges and professional schools—for every two men who will receive a B.A. this year, three women will do the same.
  • Of the 15 job categories projected to grow the most in the next decade in the U.S., all but two are occupied primarily by women. Men dominate just two: janitor and computer engineer.
  • The role reversal that’s under way between American men and women shows up most obviously and painfully in the working class.
  • Mustafaa El-Scari, a teacher and social worker, [..] reading from a worksheet , [w]hat are the four kinds of paternal authority? Moral, emotional, social, and physical. “But you ain’t none of those in that house. All you are is a paycheck, and now you ain’t even that. And if you try to exercise your authority, she’ll call 911. How does that make you feel? You’re supposed to be the authority, and she says, ‘Get out of the house, bitch.’ She’s calling you ‘bitch’!”
  • He writes on the board: $85,000. “This is her salary.” Then: $12,000. “This is your salary. Who’s the damn man? Who’s the man now?” A murmur rises. “That’s right. She’s the man.”
  • In 1950, roughly one in 20 men of prime working age, like Henderson, was not working; today that ratio is about one in five, the highest ever recorded.
  • Women now earn 60 percent of master’s degrees, about half of all law and medical degrees, and 42 percent of all M.B.A.s. Most important, women earn almost 60 percent of all bachelor’s degrees—the minimum requirement, in most cases, for an affluent life.
  • I started at the downtown campus of Metropolitan Community College. Metropolitan is the kind of place where people go to learn practical job skills and keep current with the changing economy, and as in most community colleges these days, men were conspicuously absent.
  • Men had a harder time committing to school, even when they desperately needed to retool. They tended to start out behind academically, and many felt intimidated by the schoolwork.
  • ... University of Missouri at Kansas City, with more than 13,000 students, is now tipping toward 60 percent women,
  • Guys high-five each other when they get a C, while girls beat themselves up over a B-minus. Guys play video games in each other’s rooms, while girls crowd the study hall.
 
sangom, somaya,

mea culpa. i am in error of understanding the nuances of your messages. please forgive me.

the written language is but an ineffective medium, compared to face to face conversation. or even a video conference.

but it is destined that we communicate, rather impersonally, through words, and that too, in a tongue foreign to all of us.

we read the post with a vehemance or exclamation, where none is intended. we read the post with a doubt, when the author meant it to be crystal clear. we read a post with a viewed bias, when the opposite was the objective.

so, in the light of a unified confirmation of my misunderstanding, i can only point out, that the communication process here has failed. the receivee and the receivee did not understand the message in the same mode and manner it is meant to be.

as a receiver, i am bound by my limitations and prejudices, and it is in this context, i apologize for misunderstanding that was generated in me.

it is also a warning call to others - please do not get angry or hyped up over a message which might have meant to be mild, but in a fit of ego you feel relevant enough to justify a stand, which never existed initially at all.

all in vain. let us not be. peace.
 
Nara;-(quote)" with pregnancy initiated by in vetro means, and chromosome screening (see below) to ensure only girl babies, who needs men anyway. Once an endless supply of sperms is inventoried, men become redundant pests."

>>"Once an endless supply of sperms is inventoried,"

As on date no way has been found to create "an endless supply of sperms"--Overtly and covertly Stem Cell Research is going on and "Official" nod is also given--even theoritically arguing Sperm Cell Line is maintained- is it sane to depend on that Bank
for the reasons given below.

Dooly has passed away in 6 years,(due to extensive lung damage),whereas the 'Life-expectancy at birth" of the spicies is 12 years.Genetically exactly similar clones are created, one flaw due to mutation is sufficient to annihilate the entire species from the face of the earth.

In smaller life forms -Procaryotes and lower forms of Eucaryotes(Hermophrodites) asexual reproduction is there.Though Sexual reproduction is Biologically "Costly" Natural Sselection(Darwin) in higher forms of Eucaryotes is Sexual Reproduction.Because in propagation of spicies the "Tharaka Mantram" is "Variation".Variation alone can sustain the spicies from annihilation.Now after having destroyed the "Diversity" in their countries,developed countries are goading,coaxing developing countries to preserve "Diversity" in flora and fauna.A cry to preserve tropical forests(Silent Valley rain forests etc).If Diversity is to be preserved Sexual Reproduction is mandatory.So both Male and Female Human spicies will remain.Demographically Indian Christians are doing very well Male: Female::1000:1009--Punjabis are worst--1000:789.

" with pregnancy initiated by in vetro means,"

Even for in-vitro pregnancy "Sperms" are needed.In Dolly's cloning, a sperm fertilised Zygote was only used.Dolly had a sexual relationship to produce its off-spring.We have to go a long way to make male reduntant--there also it will be against "Natural Selection" and it will NOT be "Survival of the fittest.

In Jurasic Park the "Chaotician"(Mathematician) Malcom says"Nature will find it's way" and later--Dr.Alan Grant( name in the movie) says "Malcom was right"
 
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