First Of All, Let Us Unite!

[JSIyengar]

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I fully agree with this. We as Brahmins have to protect ourselves as well as our community folks. I joined this site today out off sheer hope that our Community should be protected. I'm also attaching an artcile from rediff.com which should awaken us all.

"Are Brahmins the Dalits of today?

May 23, 2006


At a time when the Congress government wants to raise the quota for Other Backward Classes to 49.5 per cent in private and public sectors, nobody talks about the plight of the upper castes. The public image of the Brahmins, for instance, is that of an affluent, pampered class. But is it so today?

Doctors in arms​

There are 50 Sulabh Shauchalayas (public toilets) in Delhi; all of them are cleaned and looked after by Brahmins (this very welcome public institution was started by a Brahmin). A far cry from the elitist image that Brahmins have!
There are five to six Brahmins manning each Shauchalaya. They came to Delhi eight to ten years back looking for a source of income, as they were a minority in most of their villages, where Dalits are in majority (60 per cent to 65 per cent). In most villages in UP and Bihar, Dalits have a union which helps them secure jobs in villages.

At Ground Zero of the quota protests​

Did you know that you also stumble upon a number of Brahmins working as coolies at Delhi's railway stations? One of them, Kripa Shankar Sharma, says while his daughter is doing her Bachelors in Science he is not sure if she will secure a job.
"Dalits often have five to six kids, but they are confident of placing them easily and well," he says. As a result, the Dalit population is increasing in villages. He adds: "Dalits are provided with housing, even their pigs have spaces; whereas there is no provision for gaushalas (cowsheds) for the cows of the Brahmins."

The middle class deserves what it is getting​

You also find Brahmin rickshaw pullers in Delhi. 50 per cent of Patel Nagar's rickshaw pullers are Brahmins who like their brethren have moved to the city looking for jobs for lack of employment opportunities and poor education in their villages.
Even after toiling the whole day, Vijay Pratap and Sidharth Tiwari, two Brahmin rickshaw pullers, say they are hardly able to make ends meet. These men make about Rs 100 to Rs 150 on an average every day from which they pay a daily rent of Rs 25 for their rickshaws and Rs 500 to Rs 600 towards the rent of their rooms which is shared by 3 to 4 people or their families.
Did you also know that most rickshaw pullers in Banaras are Brahmins?

Do our institutes connect with the real India?​

This reverse discrimination is also found in bureaucracy and politics. Most of the intellectual Brahmin Tamil class has emigrated outside Tamil Nadu. Only 5 seats out of 600 in the combined UP and Bihar assembly are held by Brahmins -- the rest are in the hands of the Yadavs.
400,000 Brahmins of the Kashmir valley, the once respected Kashmiri Pandits, now live as refugees in their own country, sometimes in refugee camps in Jammu and Delhi in appalling conditions. But who gives a damn about them? Their vote bank is negligible.
And this is not limited to the North alone. 75 per cent of domestic help and cooks in Andhra Pradesh are Brahmins. A study of the Brahmin community in a district in Andhra Pradesh (Brahmins of India by J Radhakrishna, published by Chugh Publications) reveals that today all purohits live below the poverty line.
Eighty per cent of those surveyed stated that their poverty and traditional style of dress and hair (tuft) had made them the butt of ridicule. Financial constraints coupled with the existing system of reservations for the 'backward classes' prevented them from providing secular education to their children.

Who are the real Dalits of India?​

In fact, according to this study there has been an overall decline in the number of Brahmin students. With the average income of Brahmins being less than that of non-Brahmins, a high percentage of Brahmin students drop out at the intermediate level. In the 5 to 18 year age group, 44 per cent Brahmin students stopped education at the primary level and 36 per cent at the pre-matriculation level.
The study also found that 55 per cent of all Brahmins lived below the poverty line -- below a per capita income of Rs 650 a month. Since 45 per cent of the total population of India is officially stated to be below the poverty line it follows that the percentage of destitute Brahmins is 10 per cent higher than the all-India figure.
There is no reason to believe that the condition of Brahmins in other parts of the country is different. In this connection it would be revealing to quote the per capita income of various communities as stated by the Karnataka finance minister in the state assembly: Christians Rs 1,562, Vokkaligas Rs 914, Muslims Rs 794, Scheduled castes Rs 680, Scheduled Tribes Rs 577 and Brahmins Rs 537.
Appalling poverty compels many Brahmins to migrate to towns leading to spatial dispersal and consequent decline in their local influence and institutions. Brahmins initially turned to government jobs and modern occupations such as law and medicine. But preferential policies for the non-Brahmins have forced Brahmins to retreat in these spheres as well.

Caste shouldn't overwrite merit​

According to the Andhra Pradesh study, the largest percentage of Brahmins today are employed as domestic servants. The unemployment rate among them is as high as 75 per cent. Seventy percent of Brahmins are still relying on their hereditary vocation. There are hundreds of families that are surviving on just Rs 500 per month as priests in various temples (Department of Endowments statistics).
Priests are under tremendous difficulty today, sometimes even forced to beg for alms for survival. There are innumerable instances in which Brahmin priests who spent a lifetime studying Vedas are being ridiculed and disrespected.
At Tamil Nadu's Ranganathaswamy Temple, a priest's monthly salary is Rs 300 (Census Department studies) and a daily allowance of one measure of rice. The government staff at the same temple receive Rs 2,500 plus per month. But these facts have not modified the priests' reputation as 'haves' and as 'exploiters.' The destitution of Hindu priests has moved none, not even the parties known for Hindu sympathy.
The tragedy of modern India is that the combined votes of Dalits/OBC and Muslims are enough for any government to be elected. The Congress quickly cashed in on it after Independence, but probably no other government than Sonia Gandhi's has gone so far in shamelessly dividing Indian society for garnering votes.

From the Indian Express: 'These measures will not achieve social justice'​

The Indian government gives Rs 1,000 crores (Rs 10 billion) for salaries of imams in mosques and Rs 200 crores (Rs 2 billion) as Haj subsidies. But no such help is available to Brahmins and upper castes. As a result, not only the Brahmins, but also some of the other upper castes in the lower middle class are suffering in silence today, seeing the minorities slowly taking control of their majority.

How reservations fracture Hindu society​

Anti-Brahminism originated in, and still prospers in anti-Hindu circles. It is particularly welcome among Marxists, missionaries, Muslims, separatists and Christian-backed Dalit movements of different hues. When they attack Brahmins, their target is unmistakably Hinduism.
So the question has to be asked: are the Brahmins (and other upper castes) of yesterday becoming the Dalits of today?
"

Thank you, Sankar for your thoughts. Funny, you should mention about the constitution! I have already written to Praveen about our association having a Mission statement or Objectives and have suggested along the following lines:
This website was born out of necessity to protect the Brahmin interests because the Tamil Nadu Government has not only abandoned the Brahmins but it is doing everything to implicitly drive them out. This website is strictly for exchange of ideas, our heritage, advancement, and helping the needy in the Brahmin community. However, this website (or Association) will NOT engage in anything that brings disharmony among castes nor will it engage in stupid arguments about Brahmin vs. Non-Brahmin castes; (the TN government is doing that already!) We believe in equality of all castes within the Hindu Religion.


Friends, what do you think? You are welcome to take this apart, add/delete/change anything you deem fit. I hope Praveen is looking into this. Please send your comments to Praveen.

 

[silverfox]

Thanks to Mr. Iyengar for bringing to the attention of our friends this article. This was written by that good man, Francis Gautier, a Frenchman living in India for over 30 years. It is ironical that it has taken a Frenchman to point out the injustice done to the Brahmins. Mr. Gautier is more Hindu than many of the so-called Hindus living in India.

 

[silverfox]

Friends:
You all have got to read this article by Francois Gautier, (Thank you, Mr. Gautier, you are a true champion of Brahmin rights), which appeared in REDIFF.COM today (6/15/06). I am learning more and more everyday.
What is with the media in India? And they claim to be impartial? It seems to me that there is a conspiracy against all Brahmins!

Anti-Brahmanism should stop!

June 15, 2006

The first article published by rediff on Brahmins as an underprivileged community, brought a flurry of reactions, mostly of surprise: "What, Brahmins as toilet cleaners, coolies, rickshaw pullers, priests earning less than Rs 150 a month... How is it possible, we always thought that Brahmins were a rich, fat, arrogant community?" Many Brahmins and other upper castes expressed online their relief that someone was speaking about their plight, that for once they were not attacked, made fun of, ridiculed. Of course there were also a few hostile e-mails, accusing the author of upper casteism, of anti-Dalits bias.
One would have thought however, that at a time when reservation was the hottest journalistic topic, the media would have seized this story and made it its own. After all, isn't impartial journalism to show both sides of the story?
Don't you think, for instance, that the discovery that all 50 Sulabh Shauchalayas (public toilets) in Delhi are cleaned and looked after by Brahmins -- traditionally the task of the lowest of the lowest caste -- and that this noble institution was started by a Brahmin, Dr Bindeshwar Pathak, makes a wonderful story, both for the print and electronic media?
That is what I believed, at any rate. So when I discovered that the Art of Living Foundation was conducting workshops for all coolies, irrespective of their religion and caste of the Delhi railway station -- and that quite a few of them were Brahmins -- I thought I could share this story and the Sulabh Shauchalayas scoop, with a few journalistic acquaintances, who would jump on it with glee. Unfortunately I was very wrong.
Initially, some young journalists were enthusiastic and joined us in our investigation. We expected the story to hit the headlines soon and be taken up by the entire press, hungry for something different than the strike of the medicos, or Arjun Singh's adamant attitude. But nothing happened.
We called them day after day, proposed some more data, but still no story came out. Then one of the young journalists, working for one of the largest media outfits in India told us off the record that the sub-editor, backed by the editor, had killed the story in true journalistic freedom.
The second scenario we encountered was stone silence: the star anchors, bureau chiefs, editors of national English newspapers whom I personally contacted, either did not return my calls or were evasive.
Third scenario: Downright hostility: "You're a right winger, a pro-BJP-RSS journalist" etc. What does truth and investigative journalism have to do with the BJP (who by the way did no more than the Congress for the Kashmiri Brahmins, for instance, when it was in power)? I don't know.
Some journalists, initially willing to do a story, backed out after some time under the pretext that the data was not solid enough. Not solid enough? Does flimsy and unchecked data ever stop the Indian media to publish slanderous stories in the recent past?
Then, I came to the conclusion that more than fifty years later, the Nehruvian culture which directly brainwashed two generations of Indians in certain thinking patterns, has survived today. Actually, you have to go farther back than Nehru. For Jawaharlal was a true end product of Macaulay's policy of creating Indians who would be Indians by the colour of their skins, but British in their thinking. Thus, the English outlook on India survives today in India's intellectual class, particularly the journalists, who often cast a Westernised, anti-spiritual, pro-minority, anti-majority, un-Indian, anti-Brahmins and other upper castes -- look on their own country.
It is true that Nehru started from a positive volition: How to solve India's huge class and caste disparity? How to appease a Muslim minority which ruled India ruthlessly for ten centuries and was not ready to be ruled by those who were for a long time Islam's pliant subjects?
But Nehru went overboard. He made the paupers of yesteryear the saints of modern India, allowing some states to literally hound out Brahmins and other upper castes. He twisted history and thanks to docile historians, made of cruel Muslim invaders and rulers, the benefactors of medieval India.
He went to the extent of excusing the razing and sacking of thousands of exquisite temples all over India, by saying that Muslim invaders such as Babar did it because these temples were full of hidden gold and jewels, damning again indirectly the poor hapless Brahmins, who were beheaded by Muslim invaders, crucified in Goa by the Portuguese Inquisition, vilified by British missionaries, and morally crucified today by their own brothers and sisters.
It is true that Brahmins may be paying today for the excesses of yesterday. In ancient times, as Sri Aurobindo wrote: 'A Brahmin was a Brahmin only if he cultivated the spiritual temperament and acquired the spiritual training which alone would qualify him for the task.'
But once Brahmanism became hereditary, arrogance, complacency and casteism became rampant, ultimately bringing the downfall of Brahmins, a downfall which the Dalai Lama defines (for his own people) as Black Karma.
Thus, thanks to the lingering influence of Nehruvianism, 'Brahmins' remain today a dirty word, even in the face of reality: that Dalits have considerably come up since 1947 in Indian society, that no nation in the world has done so much for its underprivileged (India had a Dalit President -- did the US ever have a Black President?). But the intellectual elite of India, which never mentions these facts, continues to hide its face in the sand like an ostrich, refusing to see the reality.
And rampant anti-Brahmanism and upper castes, first used by the Muslim invaders, then by the British colonialists and missionaries, is still in vogue at the hands of Nehruvians, Marxists, Indian Christians and politicians in search of the votes of Dalits and Muslims, which combined together make and unmake prime ministers.
Yet, Brahmins and other upper castes have played an invaluable role in Indian history, as Dr Bindeshwar Pathak, the founder of the Sulabh Shauchalaya Movement remarks: 'Society sustained the Brahmins and other upper castes earlier, who upheld the Hindu scriptures and Hindu culture. Today Hinduism is on the decline day-by-day. There is a lack of ancient knowledge. No political party has objected to reservation thanks to vote-bank politics. People have a very short memory. They have forgotten the contribution made by Brahmins to our society.'
And who says that Brahmins and other upper castes are anti-Dalits. Some of India's top avatars, saints and gurus were of low caste and are still worshipped today by all upper castes. Valmiki, the composer of the Ramayana, was a fisherman; Ved Vyasa, the epic poet of the Mahabharata, which also contains the Bhagavad Gita, the Bible of Future Humanity, was the son of a fisherwoman; Krishna was from the shepherd's caste. And are not today's Amritanandamayi or Satya Sai Baba of low caste birth? Don't they have millions of Indians, many of them from upper castes, bowing down to them?
Anti-Brahmanism has to be stopped!
This inter-caste war, triggered by the politicians' greed for votes, has to be defused.
FACT, my Foundation, which conducts exhibitions on persecuted minorities, whether the Kashmiri Pandits, the Christians, Buddhist Chakmas and Hindus suffering in Bangladesh at the hands of fundamentalists in Bangladesh, or the Tibetans facing a cultural and spiritual genocide in Tibet, decided to take things in hand.
We started, with the help of a few dedicated friends, a film on Brahmins and other upper castes as an underprivileged community. This film will lead to a photoexhibition and hopefully to a book. All testimonies and documents are welcome.
The future of this country lies in a unified India, where all castes will find their just place, where all will feel Indians first and belonging to this caste or that one, after.
Francois Gautier

 

[JSIyengar]

Hello subalaji:

I live in California and I can volunteer to bring in more members

Can we first try to get as many volunteers as possible and roghly assign what tasks they will be engaged with . We need minimum 2-3 in every major country , more is welcome. We need from Gulf, USA, canada , Singapore , as many cities in TN, Blore, Bombay, Hyderabad, Calcutta , New Delhi , Australia . This core group can spread awareness and make more volunteers
Need volunteers to identify themselves . Thodi has already replied he can be one in USA. Praveen can u make arrangements for the resume database

 

[ramprakashs]

We need a concerted help effort

Dear Friends,

I do agree with all your views.We should setup a forum so that we can help each other ,since no government in india is going t do so.

Me myself working asan HR ina MNC in Bangalore would like to offer my services to any deserving brahmin.

you are free to mail me at [email protected]

 

[grajendran]

Sliverfox and others,

I got a few questions for you based on Mr.Gautier's column. Could you please clarify those for me ?

1) Is there anything amiss with the Janitorial / Toilet cleaning work ? Is that not a profession that is the sole means for hundreds of thousands in India ?

2) I believe that there are many factors that contribute to the social and economic status of a person. Do the examples cited not indicate that the once previleged community is coming to the reality ?

3) Mr. Gautier is full of factual errors spread throughout his writings. One has to be an Indian to be able to understand the complex and intricate web of caste and the history. Saying that Valmiki, Ved vyas are all worshipped in great number is very much self serving. Yadavas are a wealthy caste, not considered a backward/ low strata one ( One should probably educate this Frenchman). In every religion there are tons of godmen-cum-magicians like Sai baba per town milking money from guillable society . What's the point ? President of India is just a figurehead, a golu bommai for ceromonies, that's it, How on earth can that be compared to the president of US. Again, blacks in US were imported for slavery. On the other hand, Historians agree that Dalits were the aboriginal people of India. Does it help anyone to rely on such writings ( that was rightly so rejected by mainstream media in India) ?

Regards

 

[Anbu]

Dear Grajendran, Namaskaram. Sri Francois Gautier has been an ardent Hindu and an Indian for major part of his life and unlikely to change. He is an ardent desciple of Sri Arobinda Ghosh and having lived in Pondicherry, he is more of a Tamilian. I won't mind accepting him as a Tamil Brahmin.

Regards,
Anbu

 

[Chintana]

Hi Grajendran,

There is nothing wrong with Brahmins cleaning toilets provided that it is an OPTION that they choose. If social conditions are getting such that they are forced to choose that for a profession then that is bad. As I had written in some of my earlier posts revenge cannot pass for social change. And harmony cannot be brought by offending one group of people constantly.

Thanks.

 

[silverfox]

My dear fellow Tamil brother Rajendran:

Since You had addressed your posting to me, let me respond. First of all, I appreciate your taking an interest in this forum even though the website was started for Tamil Brahmins.
I completely agree with you that there is absolutely nothing wrong with cleaning toilets or pulling a rickshaw; it is the dignity of labor, earning a honest day's work. However, Mr. Gautier's point was to bring out the very fact that these brahmins are not no longer a privileged class as you have rightly pointed out.
I beg to differ with you about Mr. Gautier's knowledge of Indian history and castes. Au contraire! He has been living in India for over 30 years, loves India more than many Indians I know, is married to an Indian woman, and he is much more knowledgeable than many of us on Indian history.
You are wrong in saying that the Yadavas are considered as BC; the fact that they are wealthy is immaterial. This was the essence of this whole agitation about reservation for the BCs; most of them are well-to-do; yet they benefit from this reservation the most. As far as I am concerned, the SC/STs who really deserve our help are not getting it; instead, it is being completely misused by the so-called BCs who are filthy rich.

Rajendran, I don't like castes among the Hindus as much as you do. Yet, when the government itself is perpetuating this caste issue and is discriminating against a particular caste (read: Brahmins), naturally we have to unite and look after our interests -- just like any other caste is already doing -- be it Vanniyar, Nadars --. Personally speaking, I would love to see this caste thing to just go away. Government should not be asking people to what caste they belong; instead, our schools (I mean the public schools) especially in villages must be improved and the less fortunate helped. Education is the only way to bring everybody up on par with the rest of the society.

Mr. Karunanidhi is doing his part (vote bank)-- he has come up with reservations for Muslims and Christians -- where will this end? By the way, Mr. Maran who is one of the most wealthiest families of India is considered a BC!! Go figure!
Rajendran, I would personally like to hear your views. I hope you will continue to write about your feelings. We welcome it.
I only wish it were like this in Tamil Nadu politics. As soon as you disagree with a certain person, you are immediately attcked physically or your properties destroyed. Indians love USA and look up to them; perhaps they can take some lessons in civility and keeping things on a even keel.
Just so you will know, I am supporting a school run only for Scheduled Castes;
Take care

 

[srkpriv]

I am not even sure whether this is true anymore. The reservation is irreplaceable now-a-days. Meaning the seats are not given if no suitable candidates are found. The SC/ST/MBC/BC seats respectively goes only those communities in education and jobs. The only people who are affected are brahmins now.

No body denied seats to the SC/ST/MBC/BC in those days. There was no colleges or educational institutes in india prior to 150 years ago. There was no formal education in india that existed 150 years ago for anybody to say they were under privileged or oppressed in the first place.

Poor necessarily doesn't mean someone is oppressed or under privileged. If you look brahmins weren't the only one discriminating in India in the first place. Lots of non-brahmin communities fight among each other. I mean we are talking a blood bath here. That's the different between brahmisn and non-brahmisn too in a way. Brahmins stay away from problems in general. non brahmins indulge. Non-brahmins fight until death in southern districts of tamil-nadu. Curfew and severe actions have to be taken to curb these a while ago.

But then brahmins are the one who are bearing the full brunt of the reservation in the name of social equality. Non-brahmins who belong to one of the oppressed (so called) categories while enjoying the benefits of the reservation are still going at each other. That's the ground reality.

But as per my main point above regardless of the status of what they do, they all have a guaranteed (irreplaceable) reservation to assure their future while brahmins opportunities are unjustly snatched away.

As far as I am concerned, the SC/STs who really deserve our help are not getting it; instead, it is being completely misused by the so-called BCs who are filthy rich.

 

[prpsarathy]

i think we must go beyond the language and unit at the brahmin level across the country. my thought process is that all the mantras are same only the customs are different as the climate,crops in that region

 

[silverfox]

To Mr. Rajendran and others:

Please go to this link and read the article (Anti-Brahminism must stop):

http://in.rediff.com/news/2006/jun/15franc.htm

 

[silverfox]

Dear PRPSarathy:

Your comments saying that all the mantras are same ... Do you really understand all tha mantras you are reciting? Even the Hindi-speaking Brahmins do not understand. What is the use of reciting something about which you have absolutely no idea what it means? If we all are taught what all the mantras mean then maybe people would willingly recite them. Please, this is my personal opinion. Your comments are welcome.

Personally, I would like to see the mantras recited in their own mother tongue. This is why I fully support Tamil archanas in Tamil Nadu Temples along with Sanskrit.

 

[sln41]

The effect of mantras remain the same whether or not you recite it with or without meaning. It has been established in a recent research that any mantra ( be it Hindu, Christian or of any religion or for that matter any word chosen by anyone) if meditated upon gives peace and tranquility to the meditator. I had read this news item recently.

I believe that vibrations made by proper pronounciations with proper sound makes a difference and right vibrations yield good results. The Vedas are recited in a specific manner and this is important for right vibrations. In that case the language ( rather sound) of Veda becomes important. I therefore feel that the language is equally important in at least some cases. It may not apply to archanas is a different issue.

 

[grajendran]

Silverfox,

Thanks to you and other for the response. Let me start by saying that i'm not fully supportive of the blanket reservation. I do agree that BCs are generally not economically backwards but are reaping the benefits. There is some truth in this. However, In the grand scheme or in the larger interest these anamolies do happen. 40 or so years of reservation is not sufficient for the upliftment of socially backward who are in the millions. The statistics do not lie and if we look at India beyond the metros, you can see that the BCs and SCs are still in need of help. In any case, Please look at this issue from a different perspective other than resignment ! Is everyone of the politicians and Professors who have formulated reservations/affirmative actions Wrong ? You need a fresh look !

Silverfox "Rajendran, I don't like castes among the Hindus as much as you do." I'm not sure what you mean ? I do not recollect ever being supportive of caste structure.

Now that i know more about Gautier, I agree that he is informed. However, I would still differ in saying that there are errors as i pointed out.

As far as the other issue of Brahmins being attacked, I really really symphatize because in my view brahmins are an easy target. Nobody as you all know, wants to discuss the atrocities meted out to SCs by BCs simply because the BCs are too powerful and i'm with you on this issue.

Again, i thought that i would provide a perspective on the issues. It may not get you anywhere unless you discuss issues with others.

I got an email from the admin and did not read it fully however it sounded like i'm no longer wanted in the forum. Everyone's time is valuable and this applies to me as well. so long !!!

Best Regards

 

[praveen]

I got an email from the admin and did not read it fully however it sounded like i'm no longer wanted in the forum. Everyone's time is valuable and this applies to me as well. so long !!!

Rajendran, the email was not meant in this context.
i do welcome your inputs and suggestions.
what i wanted from you is to tone down and rephrase your words, as many members have been hurt by those and have got in touch to say so.
i do hope you are reading this and i look forward from hearing from you.

 

[silverfox]

Dear Rajendran:

Thank you for your comments. Regarding your statement" "Rajendran, I don't like castes among the Hindus as much as you do." I'm not sure what you mean ? I do not recollect ever being supportive of caste structure. "

I believe it is the quirkness of the English language. Here when I said "I don't like castes among the Hindus as much as you do", I meant that you and I both do not like castes among the Hindus. Perhaps this is the American way of stating!! In any case, please rest assured I did not state that you supported caste structure.

Regarding reservations, I never said that there should be no reservations. I was stating that Reservations have been hijacked by the well-to-do so-called 'BC's and they are manipulating the issue to their benefit. The true receipients - the SCs and STs - were not getting the reservation benefits. I am sure you will agree with me on this.
Look, be it Brahmins or other high castes, we did do bad things to the Harijans (or untouchables) in the past. It is about time we realized that all are human beings and in the eyes of God there is noone who is higher or better than another human being, and correct the wrongs.

I dont believe the Admin, Praveen, would have asked you to not write. On the contrary, like I have said, this forum even though it is for the advancement of Brahmins, is democratic and we are always open to other people's opinions and views. It may be that when you responded to one Mr. Iyenger, you were very harsh and insulting and you hurt his feelings. Maybe Praveen was requesting you to by all means disagree or refute but keep it civil and professional. Praveen, I hope I am right.

I hope you will continue to write your views and comments. We would welcome them.
Take care

 

[silverfox]

Dear sln41:

I am sorry I beg to differ with you. How can reciting something you dont understand can bring good results? Do we have any scientific research done on the benefits of these vibrations?
Mind you, sln41, I come from a very very orthodox Brahmin family, where all these mantras were recited every day when I was growing up; still, we never got any benefits out of that!! I had to struggle and fight my way in society to advance! In praying to God, one doesn't need all these meaningless mantras (I say meaningless because I have no idea what they mean, unless you are a Sanksrit scholar) - one can pray to God in his own words; in his own mother tongue.

Look, sln41, I am too ignorant to state that there are no benefits to chanting mantras; if it brings someone peace of mind and tranquility, by all means, be it. But unless it is scientifically proven, I will be skeptical.

The effect of mantras remain the same whether or not you recite it with or without meaning. It has been established in a recent research that any mantra ( be it Hindu, Christian or of any religion or for that matter any word chosen by anyone) if meditated upon gives peace and tranquility to the meditator. I had read this news item recently.

I believe that vibrations made by proper pronounciations with proper sound makes a difference and right vibrations yield good results. The Vedas are recited in a specific manner and this is important for right vibrations. In that case the language ( rather sound) of Veda becomes important. I therefore feel that the language is equally important in at least some cases. It may not apply to archanas is a different issue.

 

[praveen]

I dont believe the Admin, Praveen, would have asked you to not write. On the contrary, like I have said, this forum even though it is for the advancement of Brahmins, is democratic and we are always open to other people's opinions and views. It may be that when you responded to one Mr. Iyenger, you were very harsh and insulting and you hurt his feelings. Maybe Praveen was requesting you to by all means disagree or refute but keep it civil and professional. Praveen, I hope I am right.

Yes, couldnt have been said better

 

[mythreyi]

hai ,
this is in quote of mr silver fox statemnt against the chnting of matras.sure u wud not be able to identify what mantras did for u.but then whta ur is coz of the matras that have been chanted years in ur ears.may be there were soem hesitations then itself while hearing to them that u had suffered to reach whereu are but am sure that those mantras alone made u stand there.chantng matras and hearing to those sounds is enough for an human but God id above all.He can understand any damn language
thnk u

 

[silverfox]

hai ,
this is in quote of mr silver fox statemnt against the chnting of matras.sure u wud not be able to identify what mantras did for u.but then whta ur is coz of the matras that have been chanted years in ur ears.may be there were soem hesitations then itself while hearing to them that u had suffered to reach whereu are but am sure that those mantras alone made u stand there.chantng matras and hearing to those sounds is enough for an human but God id above all.He can understand any damn language
thnk u

Dear Mythreyi:
Please forgive my ignorance; I did not understand what you were trying to say. However, you are right in your argument that since God can understand any language, we can recite anything (even when you dont understand it). If that be the case, why any specific mantras? why not some cacophony sounds!
Sorry! Mythreyi! I am not trying to be difficult; but I am not convinced. I could go in detail but I think I will leave it at this stage. Maybe I am not mature enough to grasp the complexities of these mantras. Perhaps if we meet in person, we could have some lively discussion!
I would love to hear from other enlightened members their views.
Thank you for your input.

 

[Anbu]

Aum

Dear Silverfox,

There are two objectives, one is obtaining powers in this world and another is attaining Self-Realization to transcend this world. The power obtained in this world exhausts in time, but Self-Realization is eternal and beyond time. There are Manthras that help a person obtain powers in this world. The Manthra must have balam to work and Manthra balam is a prerogative in the hands of a Guru. So without a Guru a 'Manthra' is not a Manthra. The Guru also teaches the student the correct Manthra that lies in the correctness of its uchchaadanam.

Our religion to a very large extent is subjective in nature, for example Self-Realization. No one can tell you who you are but you alone can know who you are. A Guru can at best help you by putting you on the right path. As they say, you can take a horse to the pond, but you cannot make him drink. The initiative is in one's own self. This is good for the realization of powers too. To expect that one should tell you in this forum or for a person of achievement to declare from the housetop as to how another person can attain powers is too naive. If you want powers go to a proper Guru and learn from him the means to attain it. When you attain, then it is the proof that it works. If you have concluded that it cannot work because you have not obtained frontal proof is your choice. What else can one say?

Sri Gurubyo Namaha

 

[silverfox]

Dear Anbu:
Thank you for your explanation on self-realization and powers. I guess I will have to come to India and look for a Guru!
But aren't these somewhat old traditions? Does everybody go to a Guru for self-realization?

 

[srkpriv]

I concur too!. In my humble opinion I think mantras are more of a prayers or verses written in sanskrit becaus that was the language of that day/people. So to attribute that it be said exactly is very right that if you pronounce wrongly (in any language for that matter) it doesn't make sense. It is just gibberish. But again we can translate in another language and say it too!.

But again if Anbu is saying the mantra is to be said exactly (only in sanskrit), and the very way of saying it is gonna give it some speacial power, then it is very difficult to believe that!.

Look, sln41, I am too ignorant to state that there are no benefits to chanting mantras; if it brings someone peace of mind and tranquility, by all means, be it. But unless it is scientifically proven, I will be skeptical.

 

[Anbu]

Why don't you think the manthras to be sound rather than a language (sanskrit)? Again I emphasise that manthra is not a manthra unless given to you by a Guru. The Guru holds the key viz. the Chaithanyam.