Divorce rearing its ugly head among Tambrahms

[renuka]

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Elders who are supposed to be role models for their children are floundering in their own lives! The OP father & son (mother is no more) used to fight with each other on some trivial matter! There was no trust between themselves! They tried to control the new girl but in vain!! She kept quite all along and now is boiling!! So each divorce case has a separate story to tell!! But the common threat is lying, deception, breaking the trust, putting unreasonable demands, and disrespecting!!

Well..finally the harsh truth is there is no use worrying about anyone elses marriage or divorce etc.

If we Hindus believe in Karma and Free Will and Gods Will..the best we can do is " Whatever will be will be"

Staying together under 1 roof till death do us part does not really mean anything...it could even be a facade ..reality is a different story all together.

In the past dependency of anyone on each other was high but now we have multiple options.

So the fact is anyone TB or Not TB are exposed to multiple options and can walk out anytime when situation is not conducive.

May be the best experiment for all of us who are still married and not divorced would be to ask ourselves why is it I am still married?

The answer is very simple..
"The situation is still very conducive for general well being"

Thats all there is to any marriage.
Its not about culture or community or values or morals or blah blah blah.

So quit trying to exert control on how others run their marriages..as I said..Que Sera Sera..whatever will be will be.

Humansa have not gone extinct.
We are the only species that keeps on increasing in population married or divorced.

If we see entire mankind as the human race there is nothing to worry.

For every divorce there is a marriage somewhere in the world.

If we let go of strong personal identification its much easier on the mind.

 

[Raji Ram]

....So each divorce case has a separate story to tell!! But the common threat is lying, deception, breaking the trust, putting unreasonable demands, and disrespecting!!

:thumb:

 

[krish44]

Well..finally the harsh truth is there is no use worrying about anyone elses marriage or divorce etc.

If we Hindus believe in Karma and Free Will and Gods Will..the best we can do is " Whatever will be will be"

Staying together under 1 roof till death do us part does not really mean anything...it could even be a facade ..reality is a different story all together.

In the past dependency of anyone on each other was high but now we have multiple options.

So the fact is anyone TB or Not TB are exposed to multiple options and can walk out anytime when situation is not conducive.

May be the best experiment for all of us who are still married and not divorced would be to ask ourselves why is it I am still married?

The answer is very simple..
"The situation is still very conducive for general well being"

Thats all there is to any marriage.
Its not about culture or community or values or morals or blah blah blah.

So quit trying to exert control on how others run their marriages..as I said..Que Sera Sera..whatever will be will be.

Humansa have not gone extinct.
We are the only species that keeps on increasing in population married or divorced.

If we see entire mankind as the human race there is nothing to worry.

For every divorce there is a marriage somewhere in the world.

If we let go of strong personal identification its much easier on the mind.

One can tend to be philosophical in general and write such posts.

Only when divorce happens to anyone close to you, it hurts.

Ultimately asking what is so holy about being married or what is bad about being divorced reflects a mind in turmoil going through the pains of living together and thinking

of alternative such as divorce.

Taking a global view that there are more marriages than divorces and reducing it to a cold statistic can be a way of coping and accepting that marriage has failed.Even a

single divorce is devastating to a family.It affects not only the couple separating but thew extended family also besides the next generation.

Many parents would hesitate when son wants to marry daughter of a divorced woman.It indicates a dysfunctional family.Still it is treated as a stigma. Divorced women find

it difficult to get married again.It is difficult to make a fresh start after divorce at least in india

 

[vgane]

Even a

single divorce is devastating to a family.It affects not only the couple separating but thew extended family also besides the next generation.

Many parents would hesitate when son wants to marry daughter of a divorced woman.It indicates a dysfunctional family.Still it is treated as a stigma. Divorced women find

it difficult to get married again.It is difficult to make a fresh start after divorce at least in india

Very true! The stigma of divorce is not going to go easily off!! The parents of the divorced have to face so much of distress!!

 

[GNANA SUNYAM]

stigma is a mental thing. sentimental. a perception. artificially made. unreal. illusion. there are many divorced who care two hoots about stigma and just march on, press on, totally oblivious to what others think.

the problem is not with the divorced but with the spectators of the divorced who attach stigma. the spectators who view divorce as stigmatic, who look down upon the divorced instead of empathizing with the divorced, are seriously critically mentally imbalanced and need urgent psychiatric treatment lest they end up quickly in kmh or nimhans.

 

[krish44]

Hello..

I only visited this forum to update my thread "My Pursuit" in the following link.

https://www.tamilbrahmins.com/showthread.php?t=34648

Unfortunately, I found that the thread was closed and I dont have a clue why this is the case. So I created a new thread "My pursuit 2" in which I was seeking help from the admin or atleast clarification on why my thread was closed. Unfortunately, till now my post has not been published. Therefore, I spent time reading all your posts from the first page to the current 15th.

Now.

I am a middle-aged Tamil Brahmin man who is still single and have travelled the world for work and education. Therefore, I have views of my own.. I am sharing some of them here.

Part 1 - Timing of marriage :

In our earlier generations, the kids were married by the age of 16-18 and so, their first love was essentially their partner. This made it soooo much easier to adjust to each other since you truly loved your counterpart. I hope all of you will agree that you would have taken better care of, or, loved more, the person who was your first love which happened in your teenage if you had been married to them. But this is not the case with todays generation, we have all had our first love and first crush on someone else. Someone we all lost in the mists of time. Now we are trying to create an attachment to another person out of nowhere in the name of marriage.

This is what one of my seniors suggested to me when I was discussing with him about marriage these days..

he said ..

" Thennan kanna eduthu transplant panni natta adhu kudumbathoda serndhu valarum.. ana panamaratha eduthu transplant panni vecha adhu enga kudumbathoda valarum? pattu thaan pogum."

basically if you transplant a budding tender coconut plant, it will grow along with the other plants.. but if you try to transplant a palm tree, it will only die and also cause soil disruption all around it when it falls down.


I am not campaigning for child marriage here. I am merely stating the intelligence of our earlier generations.

2. Gender Equality :

There was some mention of gender equality also in the preceding pages.. There was an argument in the thread which correlated men not wanting to do kitchen work to male chauvinism. I personally believe that this had me stupified by the asininity of the argument. I believe that current families have quite happily employed a cook or a utensil washing person to take care of these chores if the wife is working. But the wife fighting simply because of the male not helping with the kitchen and utensils is the problem of the wife. A helper should be employed if there is a need. What is the lady trying to prove by forcing the husband to do what she herself is unable to do? Isn't the problem due to the fact that both are working? Or is the argument for the case where the husband is sitting at home and the wife is a cost accountant?

I believe it is only in India that women have started to not want to do household work. They think it is menial. This culture which is developing only in india is not really the 'gender equality' that other women across the world are fighting for. ' Gender equality ' is umpteen times more delicate that this. I have personally seen scores of white american women who do kitchen work and take care of kids with pride.

Irrespective, I have also lived with indian couples with kids where both the parents worked as they had to pay for kids education in a foreign country. My current australian roommates are a case to site. The lady irrespective of whether she works or not takes it upon herself to cook and the husband also partakes in the cooking activities when he comes early enough from work.

I am also aware of what some had mentioned earlier that the ambis nowadays have started to silently clean utensils an change diapers without a whimper so that the marriage is without problems. This should not be the case as the answer to the problem should be found rather than suppressing the problem like the d i ls of yesteryears. And the answer to the problem is a paid kitchen helper or cook.

So, my opinion on the topic of gender equality, sharing of work and such things (with specific relation to current divorce scenarios) is that the current crop of indian females are more chauvinistic than even the so called male chauvinists. This is the reason for the jump in divorce rates.


3. Girls Parents:

Sweet Dear Lord Almighty... Are the parents of todays girls stuck-up or what?

I am not even going to try to explain the situations that I have been in during the course of my bride hunting. It is so damn puke-inducing combined with the girls heavy-handed attitudes that I have decided to be single given the current times and the prospective d i ls that are available now.

It is no wonder that S Ve Shekhar who made the original 'manal kayiru' movie (where the boy protagonist lays conditions for the girl) also felt the need to make a part 2 of the same movie as 'manal kayiru 2' where the girl protagonist lays conditions for the boy.

Nope.

Nada.

Sorry.

I will not be trying to pull some anti-gravity moves to defend what I have said here. You can happily bash me for all I care.

Krishnan

Hello youngman.

We both have the same name.So l am taking the liberty of responding freely to your post

1.You are assuming that first love is only at teenage.Not necessarily correct.

2.Gender equality-Indian working conditions are different. Those [both men and women] in MNC and IT observe erratic working hours ranging upto 10 hours a day leaving

no life-career balance. For working couples,depending on maids for cleaning, washing clothes, cooking is a requirement. For this to be possible, both should earn well[

more than 20lakhs/yr gross each.]But those at the lower rung of the career ladder , do not get paid that much.At best they can have part time helps with relatives [mostly

parents or inlaws] taking some of these responsibilities.Indian girls are reasonable. They do not expect their husbands to do some domestic chores in the name of gender

equality. Sometimes it is a compulsion that boys also should chip in and do their bit.There are no female chauvinists in india. You are just getting carried away due to limited

exposure to indian girls.So do not lose heart. You can get wonderful career girls in india .Only you need to have an open mind.

3.krishnan, Are you looking a bride for yourself or are you looking for a daughter in law acceptable to your parents.

These days girls like boys who choose their own mates and get fully committed to them.They do not like boys who have hang up about their parents and want girls who can

serve boys parents.Times have changed. If you cannot measure up to needs of modern times why blame girls?With your mindset you are likely to be single for some more

years and risk missing the marriage bus.

 

[prasad1]

stigma is a mental thing. sentimental. a perception. artificially made. unreal. illusion. there are many divorced who care two hoots about stigma and just march on, press on, totally oblivious to what others think.

the problem is not with the divorced but with the spectators of the divorced who attach stigma. the spectators who view divorce as stigmatic, who look down upon the divorced instead of empathizing with the divorced, are seriously critically mentally imbalanced and need urgent psychiatric treatment lest they end up quickly in kmh or nimhans.

Generally, humans, are a social animal. They need the approval of society to lead a successful life. Yes, there are exceptions like those Rishis sitting in caves of Himalayas. So stigma and praise are essential for our survival. So we can not ignore them. We have to survive them.

 

[prasad1]

Hello..

I only visited this forum to update my thread "My Pursuit" in the following link.

https://www.tamilbrahmins.com/showthread.php?t=34648

Unfortunately, I found that the thread was closed and I dont have a clue why this is the case. So I created a new thread "My pursuit 2" in which I was seeking help from the admin or atleast clarification on why my thread was closed. Unfortunately, till now my post has not been published. Therefore, I spent time reading all your posts from the first page to the current 15th.

A post gets closed if it is inactive for some time. The owner of the site has provided us this forum free of cost. We have to be thankful. You are an occasional visitor, you are lucky that your ID was active. Please confirm your e-mail address or your ID will be revoked.

 

[krish44]

stigma is a mental thing. sentimental. a perception. artificially made. unreal. illusion. there are many divorced who care two hoots about stigma and just march on, press on, totally oblivious to what others think.

the problem is not with the divorced but with the spectators of the divorced who attach stigma. the spectators who view divorce as stigmatic, who look down upon the divorced instead of empathizing with the divorced, are seriously critically mentally imbalanced and need urgent psychiatric treatment lest they end up quickly in kmh or nimhans.

There is no need to present a rosy picture of divorce. Only those who go through it know it . In india one spends years to undo a relationship.

How many will empathise with a divorcee?It is all beautiful words..Not many unmarried boys will marry a divorcee .Only a poor uneducated girl might consent marrying a

divorced boy out of compulsion.This is the practical reality.

No sense in accusing all of mental imbalance if they do not want a divorced person in the family. Those who opt for divorce should have the mental strength to live on their

own after divorce.

 

[rishikesan]

We, eiders , either experienced or seen then plight of divorcees in the last 2/3 decades & especially in the last 10 to 15 years, the cases of Tamil Brahmins gone to U.S.We feel helpless to advice the children , more so they decide things /write or wrong. In our family more number of boys /girls are settled in California, in that one Boy has married a Telugu /Tamil girl & he refused to listen to elders & others had to yield ( Non Veg eaters) in another case tha girl got dissolved Nichyadartham & insisted to marry a N.B class mate & parents got it done. Funny thing is ----bulk of the relatives / both men & women in their 50s& 60s take part in all functions with no hesitation, hug each other ( may be in privacy vent their. Feelings with like minded men & women / though orthodox..?

A.Srinivasan ( rishikesan)

 

[GNANA SUNYAM]

Generally, humans, are a social animal. They need the approval of society to lead a successful life. Yes, there are exceptions like those Rishis sitting in caves of Himalayas. So stigma and praise are essential for our survival. So we can not ignore them. We have to survive them.

prasad sir,

from your own words, this condition/situation will also pass.

success in life will no longer need approval from society. on the contrary society will need approval from individuals for survival.

stigma and praise from society will no longer be needed.

time will come when stigma and praise will struggle to survive not individuals.

society will realize it has to change. it will keep continually changing.

 

[GNANA SUNYAM]

...How many will empathise with a divorcee?

why not empathy for the divorced begin with you and I sir!!!

where there is a will there is a way!

 

[S Narayanaswamy Iyer]

Dear Krishnaan.vp and Krish44

Pl let me butt in with some down-to-earth facts though both of you are only ninth avathaarams of me, Naaraayana.

1. Timing of marriage and first love.

Neither my spouse nor I had "first loves" nor married when we were teens. We both had our respective education locally up to first degree level,, and went overseas for postgraduate qualifications in an English-speaking country -- on scholarship/fellowship awarded by a British Commonwealth member": she in UK, I in Australia. We got married in our mid-twenties through horoscope-matching by our parents, their advisers, and our family priests. Her family was from Karur, Tamil Naadu; mine from Kochi, Kerala.

Though we had a lot of prior information through mutual friends of our families, we met only AFTER the nischithaamboolams were exchanged between our respective parents. Our children and our grandchildren joyfully helped celebrate our grand sathaabhishegam several years ago.

2. Gender equality. The concept never entered our heads. Or the heads of our respective parents. Or the heads of our cohorts. The genders are never equal. It is no use pretending that they are. Unless you are amoebae reproducing by primitive cell division.

At the core of the marriage partnership, the man is the earner and leader, the protector and provider, the pace-setter and preceptor, the sturdy staff around which the vine twines and blooms. He wears the pants in the home. He fathers the children, and they take his name. In our family the bride normally keeps her father's name as her own surname. The husband and wife belong exclusively to each other at all times.

Within a year of marriage I bought with my own money a self-contained brick-and-tile "corner terrace" house with all modern facilities and with gardens in front, at the back and at the side. My f-i-l kept all his daughter's earnings as his own money, and I did not bother to query this. (This was his practice with his other daughters as well.) I fitted and furnished our matrimonial home with my own money, too. So, nothing was lacking.

Both of us had full-time employment even before marriage. My wife kept hers. I kept mine. At first our parents rallied round when they could, especially when the first two children were born. But we always had servants to do the housework, washing, ironing, and cleaning, but not the cooking which we did ourselves.

Later, as live-in and full-time servants became prohibitively expensive and troublesome, we resorted to mechanisation and automation. Gas and electric cookers, refrigerators and freezers, washing and drying machines, vacuum-cleaners, electric grinders and juicers, water-heaters for bathrooms and kitchen, childcare centres, walk-in part-time domestic help, radio, TV, telephone, computers.

3. Girls' parents. Most welcome to visit occasionally, but not to stay. Welcome to phone, send and get letters, photos, food parcels, children's presents on their birthdays. No one "lays conditions" on any other. Girl's brothers and sisters, and their spouses, keep their distance, visit only when invited and do not stay overnight. Same with my own siblings and their families.

Of course, spouse contributes her ideas on everything, however trivial or grave, but if consensus is not reached, the man's word prevails. Same if ideas are actually her siblings' or her parents', subtly transformed into "thalahaani manthram" and transmitted as original.

Touch wood, so far so good.

S Narayanaswamy Iyer

 

[biswa]

I think the "man's word prevails" era is gone.

I was thinking that the survival of a species, any species, depends more on the female, i.e. how much investment the mother will put into her children. The father is often absconding, or at least not as invested.

 

[vgane]

We, eiders , either experienced or seen then plight of divorcees in the last 2/3 decades & especially in the last 10 to 15 years, the cases of Tamil Brahmins gone to U.S.We feel helpless to advice the children , more so they decide things /write or wrong. In our family more number of boys /girls are settled in California, in that one Boy has married a Telugu /Tamil girl & he refused to listen to elders & others had to yield ( Non Veg eaters) in another case tha girl got dissolved Nichyadartham & insisted to marry a N.B class mate & parents got it done. Funny thing is ----bulk of the relatives / both men & women in their 50s& 60s take part in all functions with no hesitation, hug each other ( may be in privacy vent their. Feelings with like minded men & women / though orthodox..?

A.Srinivasan ( rishikesan)

All these are the ramifications of urbanization and globalization...We gave up most of our own traditions...We are now in the lurch..We have become so materialistic and individualistic we do not want any one to intrude into our privacy...There is neither sharing nor caring..Can we profess a solution to this gloomy scenario...Our families have to be together...Our community has to be together...Is it possible?

 

[tbs]

All these are the ramifications of urbanization and globalization...We gave up most of our own traditions...We are now in the lurch..We have become so materialistic and individualistic we do not want any one to intrude into our privacy...There is neither sharing nor caring..Can we profess a solution to this gloomy scenario...Our families have to be together...Our community has to be together...Is it possible?

hi

i think....no...its hard to get together....even many family openly support od their kids choices...if we say against them....

we will be eliminated from family/may even in community....sometimes we have to flow according to water...not against water..

 

[Brahmanyan]

All these are the ramifications of urbanization and globalization...We gave up most of our own traditions...We are now in the lurch..We have become so materialistic and individualistic we do not want any one to intrude into our privacy...There is neither sharing nor caring..Can we profess a solution to this gloomy scenario...Our families have to be together...Our community has to be together...Is it possible?

Yes, agreed. Tamil Brahmin community is passing through a "cultural quandary", as the legendary "Thirisangu". Neither here nor there!
Our generations have passed through strict discipline and hierarchical control in the family. Sending our women for jobs and earnings are rare occurrence in our families. When the new generation pursued higher education and jobs for our ladies, many of our traditional life have to be given-up. The easy mix up of genders in new environment has created new problems. Divorce is one among them. We cannot escape now.
The expectations in life for both educated boys and girls are very high. The economic independence of the husband and wife create confidence in them to break off their wedded life easily. They find the legal separation is the only alternative to face the situation, when no other possibility is counseled at the time of need.

Now divorce is spreading to other communities among the Hindus as well.

While Divorce is sanctified by religious codes, among other religious communities, marriages among Hindus being life long, till parted by nature, we have no Divorce laws in our religious codes. Only civil laws were introduced to codify divorce.
Divorce has come to stay, and we have to accept the reality.

Brahmanyan
Bangalore.

 

[krish44]

why not empathy for the divorced begin with you and I sir!!!

where there is a will there is a way!

GS sir Empathy can be misconstrued.

When I tried finding a match for a relation ,a widower[if not divorcee] with a kid, his mother wanted to know what is my interest in this. She firmly believes that no one

can take interest in a widower with a kid without an ulterior motive.lol

The best we can do is leave the divorced or widowed alone, leave them to live the lives they have chosen for themselves.

They have to find their mates thru social forums or friends circles in case they desire and have not lost faith in marriage as a concept.

 

[krish44]

Dear Krishnaan.vp and Krish44

Pl let me butt in with some down-to-earth facts though both of you are only ninth avathaarams of me, Naaraayana.

1. Timing of marriage and first love.

Neither my spouse nor I had "first loves" nor married when we were teens. We both had our respective education locally up to first degree level,, and went overseas for postgraduate qualifications in an English-speaking country -- on scholarship/fellowship awarded by a British Commonwealth member": she in UK, I in Australia. We got married in our mid-twenties through horoscope-matching by our parents, their advisers, and our family priests. Her family was from Karur, Tamil Naadu; mine from Kochi, Kerala.

Though we had a lot of prior information through mutual friends of our families, we met only AFTER the nischithaamboolams were exchanged between our respective parents. Our children and our grandchildren joyfully helped celebrate our grand sathaabhishegam several years ago.

2. Gender equality. The concept never entered our heads. Or the heads of our respective parents. Or the heads of our cohorts. The genders are never equal. It is no use pretending that they are. Unless you are amoebae reproducing by primitive cell division.

At the core of the marriage partnership, the man is the earner and leader, the protector and provider, the pace-setter and preceptor, the sturdy staff around which the vine twines and blooms. He wears the pants in the home. He fathers the children, and they take his name. In our family the bride normally keeps her father's name as her own surname. The husband and wife belong exclusively to each other at all times.

Within a year of marriage I bought with my own money a self-contained brick-and-tile "corner terrace" house with all modern facilities and with gardens in front, at the back and at the side. My f-i-l kept all his daughter's earnings as his own money, and I did not bother to query this. (This was his practice with his other daughters as well.) I fitted and furnished our matrimonial home with my own money, too. So, nothing was lacking.

Both of us had full-time employment even before marriage. My wife kept hers. I kept mine. At first our parents rallied round when they could, especially when the first two children were born. But we always had servants to do the housework, washing, ironing, and cleaning, but not the cooking which we did ourselves.

Later, as live-in and full-time servants became prohibitively expensive and troublesome, we resorted to mechanisation and automation. Gas and electric cookers, refrigerators and freezers, washing and drying machines, vacuum-cleaners, electric grinders and juicers, water-heaters for bathrooms and kitchen, childcare centres, walk-in part-time domestic help, radio, TV, telephone, computers.

3. Girls' parents. Most welcome to visit occasionally, but not to stay. Welcome to phone, send and get letters, photos, food parcels, children's presents on their birthdays. No one "lays conditions" on any other. Girl's brothers and sisters, and their spouses, keep their distance, visit only when invited and do not stay overnight. Same with my own siblings and their families.

Of course, spouse contributes her ideas on everything, however trivial or grave, but if consensus is not reached, the man's word prevails. Same if ideas are actually her siblings' or her parents', subtly transformed into "thalahaani manthram" and transmitted as original.

Touch wood, so far so good.

S Narayanaswamy Iyer

Thanks for your post.

It truly reflects the life of those in seventies and eighties who married working women , made financial arrangements so that it did not come in the way of domestic

harmony and a healthy recognition of man as head of the family. All of us with working wives have gone thru these phases of parental, inlaws support when needed, part or

full time servants for our needs, besides switching to modern gadgets for cooking when they became available.

If husband and wife apply the same rules for dealing with parents and inlaws, it is progressive thinking and not many are able to do that..

But accepting husbands word as the last word is not appreciated however. I believe wife knows best.In event of conflicting views , following wifes thinking makes life more

happy .lol

My upvote for your post.

 

[krish44]

Yes, agreed. Tamil Brahmin community is passing through a "cultural quandary", as the legendary "Thirisangu". Neither here nor there!
Our generations have passed through strict discipline and hierarchical control in the family. Sending our women for jobs and earnings are rare occurrence in our families. When the new generation pursued higher education and jobs for our ladies, many of our traditional life have to be given-up. The easy mix up of genders in new environment has created new problems. Divorce is one among them. We cannot escape now.
The expectations in life for both educated boys and girls are very high. The economic independence of the husband and wife create confidence in them to break off their wedded life easily. They find the legal separation is the only alternative to face the situation, when no other possibility is counseled at the time of need.

Now divorce is spreading to other communities among the Hindus as well.

While Divorce is sanctified by religious codes, among other religious communities, marriages among Hindus being life long, till parted by nature, we have no Divorce laws in our religious codes. Only civil laws were introduced to codify divorce.
Divorce has come to stay, and we have to accept the reality.

Brahmanyan
Bangalore.

My upvote.

A very balanced view on marriage and divorce.

How many can accept divorce in our own families maturely.?

The blame game continues for long leaving bitterness between girl and boys families.

If they happen to have children ,then plight is miserable.

My heart goes out to them as they are the real sufferers of breakdown in relationships.

 

[krish44]

All these are the ramifications of urbanization and globalization...We gave up most of our own traditions...We are now in the lurch..We have become so materialistic and individualistic we do not want any one to intrude into our privacy...There is neither sharing nor caring..Can we profess a solution to this gloomy scenario...Our families have to be together...Our community has to be together...Is it possible?

Parents can do nothing much if children are adults and choose to exercise their own choices on whom they like to marry.

Perhaps they can register their misgivings or lodge their protest.Our last generation parents disowned their children who entered into undesirable alliances. This generation sulks and accepts.Perhaps this is a better choice.

 

[Vaagmi]

I have been reading the posts in this thread regularly.

Divorce is a serious issue for the community.

In most of the cases the boy and his parents are responsible.

In some cases the girls are responsible.

The sufferers are the boy and the girl only. If there are children they are the most unfortunate ones.

So a divorce is a disruption in the community's peace and prosperity. To me it appears the following conclusions are perhaps the outcome of this lengthy discussion:

1. Whether it is liked or not, the husband is the commander of the two member army that gets into the battle of life. If the husband becomes a failure in his role, the wife automatically takes over if she is capable. If both are below par the family just subsists and ekes out a living. In the army the basic unit of infantry is a section. It is headed by a Leutenent who commands the unit. In the battle field his orders are final and are implicitly obeyed as any disobedience will cause danger to the lives of all the members of the unit. In the community, a family is the basic unit and it is usually commanded by the husband. When his orders are disobeyed, the family decays. Unlike in the army, in community wife automatically takes over command pushing aside the husband if he turns out to be unfit. as long as this is understood the battles are fought and won in life. When this is forgotten divorce results and the battle is lost.

2. Parents of boys should come out with all facts about the boy upfront and there should be nothing hidden from girl. If the boy has mental issues it should be revealed in advance. In several cases this does not happen and the result is a divorce. This applies to girls also and their parents.

3. Give and take is the golden rule to be followd in the family. Where there is sharing of responsibilities the chances of failure is zero. If sharing is not possible for whatever reason, it should be compensated with showering of love and affection.
4. If there is no scope for getting on with life together, better part ways amicably and make it a quick and peaceful parting. Legal wrangling and expenses can be avoided. A protracted divorce suit bitterly fought in the court reveals meanness and revenge as the underlying motif.

5. If children are there, a divorce should be avoided at all costs (even if it means living under one roof is a helluva experience). The couple owe it to the children.

6. At present the community(TB) plays no role worth mentioning in helping couple resolve their misunderstandings/ disputes. The community should become or einvolved in this aspect. We have community leaders including Gurus, swamijis who can intervene at the right time and play a proactive role in avoiding a divorce happen ing.

7. The samoohams, samajams, mandalis, trusts and other social organizations can help the couple meet community leaders mentioned in point no. 6 above or counsellors qualified for this purpose. They can not abdicate their duties to the commu nity and conveniently concentrate in conducting bhjanotsavams, pravachanams and laksharchanais alone.

I expected some people will discuss the point which was casually mentioned by Brahmanyanji -- about the foreign assignments and absence from the home soil being a contributing factor to divorces. But that did not happen.

All these conclusions are drawn ignoring those amongst us who have accepted defeat without a battle. They have already accepted divorce as inevitable and have are supportive of it as a normal occurrence. To me divorce is just not normal. It is violently disruptive. Sometimes youngsters are just sucked into it. Period. Thanks.

 

[krish44]

!. Who constitute community?-fake gurus and swamis living off people.Absolutely no no.

2. Samajam, trusts, mandalis are OK for organising religious discourses but can hardly be peace makers between couple falling apart

3.Parents or parents in law are normally biased in favour of their son or daughter and do not view DIL or SIL similarly. Also they have a vested interest. They would like to

see that decision on break up affects in what way. They try to preserve their own interest and their standing in their own community.

4. No one gets into divorce mode by choice. If a girl gets cheated due to wrong credentials of boy regarding academics or job or physical infirmity or health condition, she

has reason to feel aggrieved and walk off. If boy realises that girl had some affairs in the past which have got suppressed , he thinks of separation.Very few separate

because of temperamental differences.Most try to cope but when it ends up in violence sometimes, separation appears to be a good option.

5. In last generation couples stayed together for the sake of children and They could be under the same roof with no communication as there was an extended family

staying with them. This generation families are nuclear, so there is option other than divorce.

6. My feeling is children of this generation are educated with decent career and are old enough to decide on whom to marry and if there is need to separate for any reason.

Parents should keep out of it unless one party approaches for mediation.I am sure children will decide what is best for them

 

[prasad1]

I have been reading the posts in this thread regularly.

Divorce is a serious issue for the community.

In most of the cases the boy and his parents are responsible.

In some cases the girls are responsible.

Yes the responsibility of divorce is between the couple only. Parents, friends and the society may be contributing factors.




The sufferers are the boy and the girl only. If there are children they are the most unfortunate ones.

Everybody related to the parties suffers. Children, parents, other relatives, and the society is affected by this failure.

So a divorce is a disruption in the community's peace and prosperity. To me it appears the following conclusions are perhaps the outcome of this lengthy discussion:

1. Whether it is liked or not, the husband is the commander of the two member army that gets into the battle of life. If the husband becomes a failure in his role, the wife automatically takes over if she is capable. If both are below par the family just subsists and ekes out a living. In the army the basic unit of infantry is a section. It is headed by a Leutenent who commands the unit. In the battle field his orders are final and are implicitly obeyed as any disobedience will cause danger to the lives of all the members of the unit. In the community, a family is the basic unit and it is usually commanded by the husband. When his orders are disobeyed, the family decays. Unlike in the army, in community wife automatically takes over command pushing aside the husband if he turns out to be unfit. as long as this is understood the battles are fought and won in life. When this is forgotten divorce results and the battle is lost.

There is a terrible assumption (for the present time), this assumption that HUSBAND is the leader is a definite prescription for divorce in the present time. Unless Husband and wife as 50-50 partner accept the leadership role, it is a disaster waiting to happen.

2. Parents of boys should come out with all facts about the boy upfront and there should be nothing hidden from girl. If the boy has mental issues it should be revealed in advance. In several cases this does not happen and the result is a divorce. This applies to girls also and their parents.

Yes, but the caveat is if they "know" of it. Parents may not know of personality traits.

3. Give and take is the golden rule to be followd in the family. Where there is sharing of responsibilities the chances of failure is zero. If sharing is not possible for whatever reason, it should be compensated with showering of love and affection.

Yes, it may help, but sometimes nothing works.
4. If there is no scope for getting on with life together, better part ways amicably and make it a quick and peaceful parting. Legal wrangling and expenses can be avoided. A protracted divorce suit bitterly fought in the court reveals meanness and revenge as the underlying motif.

I agree with that solution.

5. If children are there, a divorce should be avoided at all costs (even if it means living under one roof is a helluva experience). The couple owe it to the children.

I do not buy that argument. Children are very perceptive, they understand the subtle signal given out by their parents. It might be better for them that there is a legal separation. Two sets of happy parents is better than a miserable living arrangement.

6. At present the community(TB) plays no role worth mentioning in helping couple resolve their misunderstandings/ disputes. The community should become or einvolved in this aspect. We have community leaders including Gurus, swamijis who can intervene at the right time and play a proactive role in avoiding a divorce happen ing.

I can give my personal experience. Having been involved in the "Sakhi" program, which rescues families in trouble.
The society and others can only do so much. InUSA the churches and other Non-Profit organization provide counselling, legal advice, and help financially.

7. The samoohams, samajams, mandalis, trusts and other social organizations can help the couple meet community leaders mentioned in point no. 6 above or counsellors qualified for this purpose. They can not abdicate their duties to the commu nity and conveniently concentrate in conducting bhjanotsavams, pravachanams and laksharchanais alone.

True.

I expected some people will discuss the point which was casually mentioned by Brahmanyanji -- about the foreign assignments and absence from the home soil being a contributing factor to divorces. But that did not happen.

A distant or absent partner can be an irritant in a relationship unless the parties concerned work it out.

All these conclusions are drawn ignoring those amongst us who have accepted defeat without a battle. They have already accepted divorce as inevitable and have are supportive of it as a normal occurrence. To me divorce is just not normal. It is violently disruptive. Sometimes youngsters are just sucked into it. Period. Thanks.

My POV are in BLUE.

 

[prasad1]

!. Who constitute community?-fake gurus and swamis living off people.Absolutely no no.

2. Samajam, trusts, mandalis are OK for organising religious discourses but can hardly be peace makers between couple falling apart

3.Parents or parents in law are normally biased in favour of their son or daughter and do not view DIL or SIL similarly. Also they have a vested interest. They would like to

see that decision on break up affects in what way. They try to preserve their own interest and their standing in their own community.

4. No one gets into divorce mode by choice. If a girl gets cheated due to wrong credentials of boy regarding academics or job or physical infirmity or health condition, she

has reason to feel aggrieved and walk off. If boy realises that girl had some affairs in the past which have got suppressed , he thinks of separation.Very few separate

because of temperamental differences.Most try to cope but when it ends up in violence sometimes, separation appears to be a good option.

5. In last generation couples stayed together for the sake of children and They could be under the same roof with no communication as there was an extended family

staying with them. This generation families are nuclear, so there is option other than divorce.

6. My feeling is children of this generation are educated with decent career and are old enough to decide on whom to marry and if there is need to separate for any reason.

Parents should keep out of it unless one party approaches for mediation.I am sure children will decide what is best for them

Your points are well made.
I agree with it, as it is progressive and appropriate for the modern times.