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Did your foreign living enable you to get more broad-minded?

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To those who care - I'm sorry this conversation on identifying some good traits among Westerners and incorporating them into our lives has turned into a discussion on totally unrelated (and mostly non-existent) racism. I did not anticipate this twist in discussion. My original points in the OP are completely lost.
 
 
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So why will we or anyone want to learn anything from thewest, when they are so racist ?. when they insult/abuse our country men?

Why la….. ????????
 
JR said:
To those who care - I'm sorry this conversation on identifying some good traits among Westerners and incorporating them into our lives has turned into a discussion on totally unrelated (and mostly non-existent) racism. I did not anticipate this twist in discussion. My original points in the OP are completely lost.
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human mind looks at negative more than the positive.

when one is exposed to western way of life, the good ,the bad and the ugly come together.

the smart ones absorb what they consider good and ignore what is not desirable.

thats wisdom.

most point out the negatives more than the positives.

such is the human mind.

we are all dysfunctional in many ways.

we somehow find the undesirable attractive and tempting .

the best way to to tackle temptation is to yield to it.lol
 
Krish –

This is NOT about focusing on negatives instead of positives!!

There is nothing positive to absorb if Indians are insulted & abused regularly in the USA. People get hyper when someone is insulted on this forum – rightly so, why will they want to face it in real life, that too by a white racist..???

See this entire racism was hidden by the PIOs, that’s why we didn’t know about it for so long… amazing job… LOL !!!.

After the ferguson riots, this lie has got exposed & everyone is talking about it & writing about it. Internet is filled with stories of Indians facing racism in the USA.

Our next gen youngsters will be the target of this ugly racism in the west, who are all dreaming to migrate to the so called “dreamland” if we don’t talk about it & warn them !!

Cheers,
 
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Maybe this racism in USA thing can be on its own thread?! I'll make sure I don't participate... (LOL).
 
Jaykay767 said:
So why will we or anyone want to learn anything from thewest, when they are so racist ?. when they insult/abuse our country men?

Why la….. ????????
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If the west or US, is racist, we are casteist, are we not Shri Jaykay767? Every country and every people have their own good and bad. But today, with all their negatives, are still dominating the world, economically, scientifically, technologically, etc. We, in India, with all the glory and greatness that you are boasting about, have not been able to make much progress even after 68 years of independence. So, don't you honestly feel that there is no point in simply gloating about our past, or in painting one individual (Narendra Modi) as some kind of a superman who will, single-handedly, transform the country to Super Power status? It is better to open our eyes, shed unwanted prejudices and learn good things from everyone. That is the way for us to progress.

For all the brouhaha you make about India and against the West, I would have appreciated if you had expressed your views in your mother tongue, instead of in English ;)
 
How the Jersey town named for Thomas Edison became hometo the all-American Guindian

http://content.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1999416,00.html

I never knew how a bunch of people half a world awaychose a random town in New Jersey to populate. Were they from some Indian statethat got made fun of by all the other Indian states and didn't want to give upthat feeling? Are the malls in India that bad? Did we accidentally keepnumbering our parkway exits all the way to Mumbai?

For a while, we assumed all Indians were geniuses. Then,in the 1980s, the doctors and engineers brought over their merchant cousins, andwe were no longer so sure about the genius thing. In the 1990s, thenot-as-brilliant merchants brought their even-less-bright cousins, and westarted to understand why India is so damn poor.

Eventually, there were enough Indians in Edison to changethe culture. At which point my townsfolk started calling the new Edisonians"dot heads." One kid I knew in high school drove down an Indian-densestreet yelling for its residents to "go home to India." Inretrospect, I question just how good our schools were if "dot heads"was the best racist insult we could come up with for a group of people whosegods have multiple arms and an elephant nose.

Whenever I go back, I feel what people in Arizona talkabout: a sense of loss and anomie and disbelief that anyone can eat food thatspicy.

Unlike previous waves of immigrants, who couldn't flyhome or Skype with relatives, Edison's first Indian generation didn't quicklyassimilate (and give their kids Western names). But if you look at the currentFacebook photos of students at my old high school, J.P. Stevens, which would bevery creepy of you, you'll see that, while the population seems at least halfIndian, a lot of them look like the Italian Guidos I grew up with in the 1980s:gold chains, gelled hair, unbuttoned shirts. In fact, they are calledGuindians. Their assimilation is so wonderfully American that if the Statue ofLiberty could shed a tear, she would. Because of the amount of cologne theywear.
 
Hi Sangom,

I am only responding to the OP which said, what can we learn from the west?

My point is that we all need to be proud of our lineage, history & our contribution, so that our people can overcome the “inferiority complex”. This has nothing to do with gloating about ourselves…

I am sure you will agree a poor NB who goes to the USA should not face such racism from the whites as much as he should NOT face any casteism here in India. Lets address both the problems equally..

It does no good to hide this racism from our young boys & girls planning to immigrate to the USA/Europe/West in general

For the record, I do not believe this new govt candeliver on their sky high promises !

Cheers,
 
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dear jaykayji

most of the members of this forum are at the top of the caste pyramid.

they do not worry too much about caste as an issue .only they might undergo some backlash for perceived practise of casteism if any

when they go abroad , they are at the bottom of the economic pyramid and their superiority label vanishes and they get bashed up sometimes unless they are in

academic campuses.

they develop more sensitivity about discrimination and shout about it.

if one looks at it deeply , no one invited our guys/gals to US to study or work.

They have gone there on there because of their sweet will for better education and career .

if they face hazards such as racism , either they can find ways of circumventing it or run back to security of their homeland.

it is ultimately a personal choice and price one pays for a better life in economic terms
 
There is the bottom, even we have one. You see it only if you dwell there. Racism is there, but you have to search for it in the worst places. Day to day the country is very conscious of this and extremely politically correct. I do not know what is is in individual's heart. Just as I do not know what is in the heart of next person sitting in the bus in TN.
Like Sangomji said:
It is better to open our eyes, shed unwanted prejudices and learn good things from everyone. That is the way for us to progress.

Jkji,
You seem to carry this negative image of West and the PIO's but like the dung beetle you carry the dung and then complain of the smell.
If you smell the roses, you would would know the fragrance.
I do not know you or your friend's visit to west. It is like you visit Dharavi and think that is India, you never visited Delhi (raj Path) or Chandigarh to see the beauty of India.
 
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sangom said:
If the west or US, is racist, we are casteist, are we not Shri Jaykay767? Every country and every people have their own good and bad. But today, with all their negatives, are still dominating the world, economically, scientifically, technologically, etc. We, in India, with all the glory and greatness that you are boasting about, have not been able to make much progress even after 68 years of independence. So, don't you honestly feel that there is no point in simply gloating about our past, or in painting one individual (Narendra Modi) as some kind of a superman who will, single-handedly, transform the country to Super Power status? It is better to open our eyes, shed unwanted prejudices and learn good things from everyone. That is the way for us to progress.

For all the brouhaha you make about India and against the West, I would have appreciated if you had expressed your views in your mother tongue, instead of in English ;)
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Respected Samgom Sir,

We can make an assessment of what we see in the west without being defensive about what happens in India. Why this tendency to always say the negatives with us and thereby discount by a good 80% and preempt whatever we are going to say about what we saw in the west. Is it to say that we are not fit to make an assessment of what is presented to us as part of western culture?

India has castes. We have not made any progress even after 68 years of independence(?). We are painting Namo as a superman who will make us a superpower.
We are all this and so we have no qualification to speak about US who is successful with all its racism and a stinking culture.--This appears to be the line of argument. I find a lot of Akinchanyam here while I come across a steadfast refusal of Akinchanyam when it comes to God entity. LOL.

I do not believe I am a mahatma. But I wont give up my right to assess the western culture for whatever it is just because I am not a mahatma. Period.
 
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krish44 said:
dear jaykayji

most of the members of this forum are at the top of the caste pyramid.

they do not worry too much about caste as an issue .only they might undergo some backlash for perceived practise of casteism if any

when they go abroad , they are at the bottom of the economic pyramid and their superiority label vanishes and they get bashed up sometimes unless they are in

academic campuses.

they develop more sensitivity about discrimination and shout about it.

if one looks at it deeply , no one invited our guys/gals to US to study or work.

They have gone there on there because of their sweet will for better education and career .

if they face hazards such as racism , either they can find ways of circumventing it or run back to security of their homeland.

it is ultimately a personal choice and price one pays for a better life in economic terms
Click to expand...

Why the fact that they are all mostly at the bottom or near the bottom of the economic pyramid in India is conveniently forgotten by you?
 
On the contrary, some of the PIOs are the one like dung beetle. They keep deflecting the stink rising from the west on to India & keep stinging their own country with the same issue for ever.

You will never find another race like the PIOs who are so fixated to find fault with their own country & criticize endlessly. They seem to think that they have achieved some greatness by settling in the west, giving up our culture, religion, traditions etc.. !! LOL
 
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Jaykay767 said:
On the contrary, some of the PIOs are the one like dungbeetle. They keep deflecting the stink rising from the west on to India &keep stinging their own country with the same issue for ever.

You will never find another race like the PIOs who are sofixated to find fault with their own country & criticize endlessly. Theyseem to think that they have achieved some greatness by settling in the west,giving up our culture, religion, traditions etc.. !! LOL
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You seem to think that praising the good in anyone else is a weakness in you. Nobody has to downplays others to feel good about themselves. Pio's are not a monolithic group and they all do not find fault with India. We as Indian fault any system where there is fault and try to change it. Some of the Indian are so defensive and shroud them self in the tricolor flag or saffron to protect and then launch their weapons like Arjuna fighting Bhisma from behind Shikandi.

Not all Pio are Pakistanis, Most PIO's love India. So get out your mind this US VS others mentality.
There nothing like static culture, religion, and values. They are all changing everyday. There is no universal Indian, Hindu or Brahmin culture. Culture is all local or may even be limited to the family. No body has to give up anything that they do not want to give up.
May be they have to give up corruption as it is against the law and enforced differently.

When this thread was opened I warned JRji the direction it will take, unfortunately I was right.
What I do not understand is what gives the right for Indians to blame other Indian (just because of their location) who are outside the country. I am pretty sure these same TB would blame TB from Delhi or Mumbai just because they are outside Chennai, for all their problems.
You don't have to cut everyone else to show yourself.
 
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Jaykay767 said:
On the contrary, some of the PIOs are the one like dung beetle. They keep deflecting the stink rising from the west on to India & keep stinging their own country with the same issue for ever.

You will never find another race like the PIOs who are so fixated to find fault with their own country & criticize endlessly. They seem to think that they have achieved some greatness by settling in the west, giving up our culture, religion, traditions etc.. !! LOL
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Dear JayKay,

I suggest you or anyone not to read too much between the lines. I can also say your vehement protest against anything West shows your bigotry and hatred of anything non-Indian. Or I can say that you show PIO's to be 'lacking in self-respect' to the point they take every belittling and bias and discrimination and are holding on to the West for mere bread and butter. But I choose not to say such things about you because I do not really know your true intentions. Similarly, praising a few virtues of Westerners isn't really belitting India and her people either. What I wrote comes from my experience, I've spent a good 22 yrs in India growing up in a not-so-well-off family that was afflicted on many major fronts and I KNOW the mentality of people in India of the present times. I know the gossips, the sarcasms, the taunts, the assaults, EVERYTHING. Sadly, THAT IS the mentality of people of India of the present times. This is just a honest observation, not intended to put down on India at all!

Like Prasad ji said, appreciating a few virtues in others does not mean belittling anyone else!

Besides, this is a free forum, anyone can record their observation as long as it is not a personal attack. You are most welcome to open up your own thread and say anything you want to say, against the West and against the PIOs.
 
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This post is by Biswaji:http://www.tamilbrahmins.com/genera...-who-left-india-nri-pio-oci-7.html#post123813

It is relevant here:
Another natural human behavior I have noticed is the attitude of resident Indians towards NRIs and vice versa. On the one hand there is the slight envy that the NRIs are enjoying somewhat of an improved lifestyle. On the other hand there is the slight condescension that the NRIs have "made it" in contrast to the residents. These attitudes are diminishing now that the lifestyle gap between India and the West is narrowing.


Yet even then, NRIs are seen somewhat as betrayers, having turned their back on the mother country and opportunistically acquired a shiny new passport. They are subtly required to justify why they would not come back either for old parents or for the moral rectitude of their kids.


The NRIs in their turn feel that they owe nothing to anyone, they have made their own future and point out the morals (or lack thereof) of Indian teenagers. Their skin crawls when having to deal with beggars, auto drivers, coolies or the occasional government babu. They feel obliged to defend the choice they have made and one way to do that is to point out the problems with the road they did not take.
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Dear JK,

I feel you got it all wrong.

No one here is finding fault with only Indians. Most of us are saying that racism isnt limited to the west only.

Its everywhere!

Let me tell you this..to me this incident is also a form of racism that happened right here where I stay.

Once I attended a medical talk which was followed by dinner.

The was a vacant seat at a table where 3 Msian Indians sat...it was open and free seating.

Later I got to know that only 2 were doctors and one lady was the doctor's wife.She was a housewife(usually doctors are strictly told not to bring non doctor spouses but dont follow rules)

Ok then this doctors wife proceeds to ask me right away if I am from her community not even 1 minute of me sitting there ..she was from a type of South Indian community.

I said No and then she tells me that everyone at their table is from her community and then she went on asking me who are her community doctors who have also attended the meeting and she just could not shut up and went on bragging how many well known doctors are from her community.

Then when my vegetarian meal came..her husband commented that "you must be a very fussy person to be a vegetarian"

I thought that was an uncalled for comment.He was Non Veg but that does not give him the right to call me a fussy person just becos I am a vegetarian.

So I called for the waiter and asked them to shift my food to another table.

I left that table..I did not want to sit down with people who only want to brag about their community and then comment on other's choice of food.

To me they too were racists in their own way and uncivilized if you ask me.

So I do not need to take a flight to USA to meet a racists.I have met them right here.
 
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JR –

You unable to handle the truth like a lot of PIOs. There isa huge monster called racism in your dreamland & now everyone knows about. So you are unable to accept that the so called dream life is crumbling.

I was a supporter of the west till I learnt about the extent of racism which came out of the locker after the Ferguson riots. Renuka raised this issue with me for changing my opinion.

To me, if anyone insults my countrymen in such blatant fashion, my respect for them is over. This is called self respect, I will not go to any country that does not respect Indians.

Racism by whites against Indians has to be absolutely condemned,period – there are no excuses.

So please do not confuse bigotry with self respect, & standing up to racism. yes, everyone should vehemently oppose racism by whites, it is simply unacceptable...

If you are not aware, whites indulge in gossip, sarcasm, the assaults, everything.. sadly that is the mentality of the whites whom you are so staunchly defending…

Gosh, they are insulting your own country men, look at the internet forums, read the horror stories, every comment board on CNN, CBS,NBC, Huff post are filled with racist hatred against Indians, Blacks,Hispanics, etc… and you are defending them ??????

Have you forgotten, why Gandhi launched a national movement?, he was insulted by a white man in South Africa…

Sorry, I will never support any country insulting any of my country men… period.

Cheers,
 
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Jaykay767 said:
Have you forgotten, why Gandhi launched a nationalmovement?, he was insulted by a white man in South Africa…
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If Gandhi remained in India he would have never launched anything!

Becos he came from a privileged community who would have never faced discrimination.

So when he met a white guy who insulted him..his ego was bruised and he launched a national movement.

For years Dalits have faced "racism" in their own country and no one thought of launching a mass scale Dalit revolution.

So if you ask me I am "thankful" to the White man who insulted Gandhi..he is like Kaikeyi without whom Ramayan would not have been possible.

Note: Some racists Whites would face racism if earth is invaded by superior aliens!LOL
 
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Renuka –

Are you saying racism by whites is okay coz everyone isracist ? so it is okay for Indians to be insulted & abused by whites ?

Cheers,
 
If any whites are reading this post, they would belaughing their guts out for such support on their racist behavior !!

I mean, they would not get such open support even in theUSA/Europe…

LOL !!
 
Jaykay767 said:
Renuka –

Are you saying racism by whites is okay coz everyone isracist ? so it is okay for Indians to be insulted & abused by whites ?

Cheers,
Click to expand...

Nope...you dont want to listen to what members are saying here.

I was saying that Gandhi felt bad that he was insulted becos he came from a privileged community and felt a severe ego bruise hence his launching a revolution.

I am not condoning the white guys actions at all but it was a catalyst to Gandhi's revolution.

If the White guy had treated Gandhi without any racism Gandhi would not have not launched a revolution.

Finally Gandhi showed his own concealed "racism" when he went on a fast when Ambedkar wanted separate electorates for Dalits.

Ahimsa was his marketing strategy...Gujratis are excellent business men.
 
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Hi Renuka,

it looks like you don’t want to discuss about the white racism like most PIOs for reasons best known to you. So you seem happy to keep circling back to the same issue – you cannot blame the whites, because you are not perfect.

It doesn’t make sense to continue arguing… in circles..

For millions of Indians based on the innumerable posts on the internet, racism by whites is a big issue, so it is a valid issue for me.

If you have any points on this specific subject (without again & again circling back to Caste-ism, all are racist etc..), then I am happy to discuss.

LOL !

Cheers,
 
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