GNANA SUNYAM
Active member
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Comparing intercaste marriages (TB vs Other Brahmins)
- Thread starter clicq
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GNANA SUNYAM
Active member
I knew very well you would respond. I expected this.
I trust you enjoyed the melody from Boney M.
Well, when I heard it first, I was in school. It was the mid 70s when they released this album. I had no clue it is from Bible. For me this was just another number of theirs like 'Brown girl in the ring' and 'Oceans of fantasy'.
Cheers to note you trail my posts.
Any quote seemingly from a scripture other than so-called-hindu-scripture sensationalizes you such that you can rest only after tracking the source.
Why does it sensationalize you!!!! For the simple reason, it is not yours. Rather, your mind has been conditioned and programmed to perceive anything hindu as yours and the rest as 'Foreign' or 'Alien'. Anything outside the boundaries of India, a geographical and political unit, is perceived 'Alien' and hence not ours. Sadly 'Foreign/Alien' is extended to matters pertaining to the entire humankind. But who sets boundaries for metaphysical phenomenon!!! When it comes to metaphysical matters, anything for that matter, from outside of your body, from outside of your self, is 'Foreign/Alien' if your boundary is limited to your self. There is no limit to the boundary you set. If you set the Earth, the planet we live in, as boundary, then everything which finds its source on this Earth ought to be native, ours.
Bible and Quran are not from Mars. If Bible and Quran are foreign, so are the Vedas, the Upanishads etc. They are also from outside of our body. We were not born with them. Likewise, if so-called-hindu-scriptures are native, so are Bible and Quran. Furthermore, Bible and Quran are available as the original texts are, translated and interpreted in Tamil language, our language, while no sanskrit work is available in Tamil. You will find only the expositories in Tamil. Even if they were transalated none could understand or comprehend or interpret without a sanskrit scholar. Bible and Quran in Tamil, need no scholar to interpret for us.
Noteworthy to mention here are Advaita and Dvaita. They are doctrinally poles apart, Yet they are 'our' philosophies.
Is not 'Foreign/Alien' a relative concept here!
We fervently cross territorial boundaries, to acquire material wealth. The erstwhile alien dollar becomes mine, though American, when I work for it and earn it. I can bring it to India and convert it to Rupees. So is the Malaysian dollar.
Why not something that pertains to, that caters to and/or benefits the soul and spirit be perceived as native!!!
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There is a vedic mantra that can be roughly translated as "Let noble thoughts come to us from all directions!" So alien, foreign is okay but then who gets to decide what is noble? The receiver should get to decide. The missionary himself cannot claim everyone should accept what he propagates by the very fact that noble thoughts can come from outside.
There is an African saying that goes like this.."When the missionaries came, we had the land. They had the bible. They asked us to pray. Now we have the bible. They have our land." It is probably against colonialism but the tool used was the bible and the "true" God! Therefore it is prudent to exercise caution.
There is an African saying that goes like this.."When the missionaries came, we had the land. They had the bible. They asked us to pray. Now we have the bible. They have our land." It is probably against colonialism but the tool used was the bible and the "true" God! Therefore it is prudent to exercise caution.
Why so many exclamation marks?
There is no alein in existence.
Everything is from God.
One might be a Hindu in one life but could have been a Muslim in a previous life and could be a Christian in the next life.
So what is our true religion?
It keeps changing from life to life or within the same life time itself..nothing wrong with that.
Bible, Quran,Vedas are word of God.
Nothing is from just one planet..its beyond the Universe as it came from God..so why do you not give the Bible its due respect when you quote it?
But you choose to write a disclaimer that " its pure coincidence if what you wrote resembles any known religious text".
Its that simple.
Btw my mind isnt conditioned to think that " this is mine..that is alien"
I studied both Sanskrit and Arabic to explore both Hinduism and Islam...I didnt study Hebrew to explore the Bible.
Most religious text do eventually require a realized person to interpret it as some translations are highly inaccurate.
A scholar may have a personal bias.
But if one reads a text with Bhakti..God Himself will make us understand it through some means or by direct messages flashing in our brain.
Just to add..you were saying there isnt Sanskrit text in Tamil..you should check out Vyomalabs Sanskrit site.
The Acharyas there do have text translated into Tamil and religious texts explained in detail.
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GNANA SUNYAM
Active member
Thanks very much Madam.
Sorry if any of my statements offended you or hurt you. That was not my intention.
I choose to refrain from bibliographing source of my quotes. Not necessary. People just need to know what is written. Not everyone are matured enough to look beyond the source and perceive everything good as one. People are tempted to discriminate.
I will sure visit the Vyomalabs Sanskrit Site and explore. It cheers to note that even sanskrit texts are translated into and made available in tamil.
Thanks again!
May God bless you abundantly!!!
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You are welcome.
The dissociation from religion and Bible is not for the reasons you think. It is to shield them from any criticism. They are dear to him.so he cannot bear to see them scrutinised or criticised. Hence the dissociation. But the same courtesy is not extended to others. Hindus praying to Ganesha or Hanuman is fair game. Negatively generalizing about brahmin culture is fair game. Accusing brahmins of having superiority complex is fair game. It is this hypocrisy that is mind boggling. This is the true தனக்கு வந்தால் ரத்தம். பிறருக்கு வந்தால் தக்காளி சட்னி moment.
Not all that glitters is gold. வெளுத்தது எல்லாம் பால் அல்ல! Don't fall for flattery. Discern!
Thank you sir.
He has Abrahamic views, I cant deny that.
I am fine with any differing view of any religionn provided there is no belittling of any religion and not to hurt the sentiments of the majority.
In this forum majority are Hindus hence any differing view should be worded without hurting sentiments.
I feel Mr GS should consider that mutual respect is important.
I don't think we should use such unparlimentary language against GS. We need to express our disagreement in a politer way. He, for whatever reason, seems to have an axe to grind against brahmins/ tamil brahmins. He reminds me of an erstwhile virulent writer against brahmins from karuthu.com days. If my hunch is correct, what we are seeing here is a mellowed version. Believe me, he is capable of writing in a much saltier way. People, especially some from TN, can harbor extremely prejudiced views against brahmins fueled by dravidian propaganda. We can resist forcefully but without resorting to abuse.
Frankly those with an agenda don't understand polite language or reason. I believe the source of the hatred is not Shri.GS. He is probably only doing what he is asked to do. No point using abusive language against Shri.GS though you can that to your hearts content with wisdom against the real inveterate scoundrels.
prasad1
Active member
Mr. vgane
That is a personal attack totally uncalled for. Just because GS has wider experience you are attacking him. Similarly, Renuka has deeper knowledge of other religion and she is not a TB people used to attack her. Knowledge is not something that you should be afraid of. "A diamond is cow dung is still valuable". One should be open to accepting and listening to any opinion, may or may not accept it that is up to the listener.
That is a personal attack totally uncalled for. Just because GS has wider experience you are attacking him. Similarly, Renuka has deeper knowledge of other religion and she is not a TB people used to attack her. Knowledge is not something that you should be afraid of. "A diamond is cow dung is still valuable". One should be open to accepting and listening to any opinion, may or may not accept it that is up to the listener.
Dear Prasad ji,
I would beg to differ slightly.
I have been a member in Forum for many years.
Many of my views do differ and not everyone has agreed with my views but I dont think anyone " attacked" me because I am not a TB.
If anyone " attacked" my post its not because of me being a Non TB.
At the same time many of my views were also well accepted.
I would say the number of Likes I got for my posts is much higher than anyone disagreeing with me.
And I myself have strongly disagreed with views of others.
So its a pretty balanced experience for me being in Forum.
In fact me being a Non TB, i dont feel out of place here.
I do enjoy being a member here.
Regards
prasad1
Active member
My apologies. I mentioned you by name because you add so much value to the forum. Lot of us can claim TB heritage but have added value to the forum like you have.
Dear Prasad ji,
Thank you and No worries..no need to apologize too as you yourself add lots of value to the forum and you keep it active by making us think out of the box.
Regards
B
bharathwaj9
Guest
You are Correct sir, but not only me, I guess there are already many of us here, who are troubled about ICM.
And I believe that's why this TB forum is created- to discuss such kinda concerns and that's why there is a thread specifically for ICM since many years as I can see ( I joined just few months back btw).
Unfortunately some of us here won't fully agree with my concerns about ICM. That's completely fine by me. I respect others views as long as they respect mine.
I have privately replied you for the details.
Also, finally I would to end this by quoting this one old beautiful post written by one of the members here in an ICM case, which I came across recently. You may have read it already, but would like to share this again as it can be a wake-up call to the community members here!
https://www.tamilbrahmins.com/threads/intercaste-marriage-is-it-possible.42721/post-442302
It exposes the raw truth, happening wrt ICM (not in this specific case). I fully agree with the contents in this post, just to let you know.
Regards,
I shall take leave.
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Hi. I was reading some forum about some important issues and some post was linked. Then I realized it was something that I posted some time back.
Aama bro. Periya prachana. But sadly, look how the sense of urgency and alarm demonstrated in the post which started this thread has not been maintained.
The opening observations made by @clicq have a tone of alarm. But do you see tam-brahm folks who realize it?
No.
The forum discussions routinely get into generic 'dharmic' rants.
There is a general degeneration of values in all groups all over the world. Not following customs, and a general wokeness are universal. But is a core identity and link being maintained? I think the ones outside TN are not understanding the urgency.
IDK if we are getting too paranoid, and this is a routine change which everyone is going through. But yes, I think its good in a way. Its just like being alarmed with increasing divorce rates. Divorces are sad. But you know what's sadder? Unhappy marriages. Abusive relationships. Children raised in toxic households. That's sadder. Divorces usually increase with increasing wealth. That tells you that what kept those marriages intact in the first place was the lack of options! Wealth opens up options, and reduces our tolerance for abuse.
Similarly, maybe this opening up is happening because now people have options? Its happening to everyone. Let's consolidate and augment what we have. The KB gentleman observed that this tends to happen more with TBs. That might be because of a number of factors. Maybe TBs tend to be more cosmopolitan and successful. Maybe its because of the great toxic hate from Dravidian Movement which forced TBs back home to discontinue traditional practices in order to survive? And this weakened the tribal bond?
The focus of most TB families today is money, comfort and western lifestyle. Very few are keeping their tradition that too superficially. Girls are brought up with very little culture to say the least. Theres no conversation between parents and them on the matter of brahmin culture and the need to preserve lineage. They mostly go to coed schools and colleges where they are exposed to anti-brahmin jokes and narratives that demean brahmin culture. All these make them to look down on themselves and their families. Enter the nonbrahmin suitors who want to 'save them from brahmin patriarchy'. This continues at work culture too, especially IT, where the girls are targetted nonstop until they tow their line. Parents are usually disconnected to these realities as they only see the lakhs per month income package until the day the girls inform of their marriage plans, by then too late. The girls are then handed to these saviours in brahmin style marriages replete with kasi yatra, virutham and kannikadanam. In other periyar liberated communities parents resist successfully often violently and persuade their girls to change their minds but patriarchical brahmins are too humane and kind hearted to stand in the way of social justice. Brahmin boys, passive bystanders to this drama, have no support, either within community or outside. They, out of decency and good upbringing, hardly approach any girl in college or at work and get rewarded with a celibate life. A minority group of rebels try their hand in love and get away with a married life. The only consolation or regret is there wont be another generation of girls to be saved.
True. Brahmin style marriage to other caste men is a true monstrosity and atrocity.
But I would like to know from other elders about marrying other caste women. How much is ok, and not ok. Would we be able to do the rituals, etc?
I am from a orthodox family based in chennai. Relatives are spread across India, and many in US ofc.
If I marry out of caste, ritually, would that be a big deal?
But I would like to know from other elders about marrying other caste women. How much is ok, and not ok. Would we be able to do the rituals, etc?
I am from a orthodox family based in chennai. Relatives are spread across India, and many in US ofc.
If I marry out of caste, ritually, would that be a big deal?
Gokul, we are beyond the point of worrying about ritual purity. These days, if one gets any girl, its true blessing, brahmin or not. Orthodox men face the most hurdle in getting a Brahmin bride as overwhelming majority of girls only prefer easy going lifestyle at home without any need to adhere to traditional protocol. Due to acute shortage of brides within the community, no one is in the position to dissuade you from marrying out of caste. In fact, it is the only viable option besides marrying other state Brahmins which comes with language issues. Try as much as possible to consider from a vegetarian community if taking that path. If not, just follow your heart. Whichever option you go for, do it without waiting too long as success of all options decline with age.
GNANA SUNYAM
Active member
If you marry out of caste, ritually, it will not be a deal at all, let alone big deal!
Perhaps it would have been a big deal, had your marriage happened in the 20th Century.
It would be a big deal now if you marry a person of the same gender as yours or if you marry a transgender.
Some men (and women too) are marrying transgenders. But these are stray cases, one in a million. Perhaps it is the beginning of a trend. Perhaps it may become common in a few decades from now. Perhaps same gender marriage may also become common in few decades. These may become matters of nil concern perhaps.
prasad1
Active member
You believed it wrong. This is an open forum. In a discussion, every opinion counts. Some may agree with your view of ICM, but others may differ. And even you will change your views when i happens in your own family. The way society is moving, these things are going to change. Nothing is permanent.
prasad1
Active member
I am old enough to answer your question. I have never lived in TN, I am honest about not being orthodox (enough), to accept others too, should have the leeway.
Accept that "our time" has passed, and the younger generation lives in present-day society, and its norms. Accept it and move on.
prasad1
Active member
"Girls to be saved" from what? Endless work of household chores and producing male babies? From your views, it looks like a scared closet Taliban. Accept the reality, educate yourself to compete in the real world.
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