Brahmins eating non-vegeterian

[renuka]

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Gujarat is a state which predominantly Vegetarian. Jains and Vaishnavites. The crime rate there is not much different from other states.

About wearing Silk, this thinking of harming silk worms is relatively new. Except Paramcharya all the other Acharyas wore/wear Silk.

Recently when I was in Varanasi, for the morning boat ride we shared a boat with three young Buddhists from Darjeeling All of them carried prayer beads and were praying all the time. Then thy bought Live Fish from some vendors in boats and released them in the Ganges They told us that it is part of their concern for animals. They buy pigeons and release them. Buddhists believe in the welfare of animals and all living things. But all of them are non-Vegetarians.

Dear Sir,

Out here many Chinese Buddhist are vegans.
They do not even take milk products,onion and garlic but sometimes they consume food made from Soya protein that resemble Non Veg even though it is 100% Veg.

Ok coming to crime rate..that means food/diet has not much effect on mind I guess cos smooth criminals are seen all over the world Veg or Non Veg!LOL

 

[thebigthinkg]

Mr. TBT,

Are you implying that Galileo, Einstein, Darwin were brahmins?

They may not belong to Brahmana Jati, but they do belong to Brahmana Varna, the Varna of Knowledge providers, yes.. Even Leonarda Da Vinci who is speculated as a gay may belong to Brahmana Varna.

And that they drank or had many women/men or smoked does not mean anything to me or that I should follow them.

While we learn from them the knowledge they gave us, we learn the knowledge of living from our own ancestors who have prospered in this land for thousands of years now..

-TBT

 

[renuka]

Sorry for the digression. Just noticed this reply and thought of replying back.



Renukaji,
Your response has the answer and confirms my previous statement as well. 'enzyme-extracting solution' - It gets enzymes 'alone' which is rennet. So it doesn't compare to eating meat.

Dear Sir,

Recently out here where I stay some controversy arose that a particular brand of butter from Denmark had traces of Pig DNA also along the enzyme lines.

It was promptly removed from the Halal section of food and all Muslims were told not to buy that and that brand of butter now falls under Non Halal section.
So all Muslims avoided that brand even though it was just a micro micro micro portion of Pig DNA.

I know that rennet does not compare to eating meat but we are aware that it is from beef that too from slaughtered calves...and if the mind knows it how not to feel guilty?

BTW I read before that cheese comes under Tamasic food and induces lots of phlegm production(according to traditional medicine..don't know how far it is true)

Anyway for those who want to enjoy cheese without a worry:

Vegetarian & Organic Cheese - Artisanal Cheese - Online Cheese Shop

At Artisanal Premium Cheese, we are proud to offer a varied selection of vegetarian-friendly and organic cheeses to our customers. Rennet is the common name for the substance used by cheesemakers to coagulate milk, forming curds. In the past, rennet was almost wholly derived from animal sources - specifically, from the stomach of a calf, kid, or lamb. Today, there are several alternatives to traditional rennet in use by cheese producers, both in America and abroad. Vegetable Rennet - Certain plants also possess the enzymes necessary to curdle milk. Plants that have found more common use as coagulants include Thistle, Fig Tree bark, and Mallow. In accordance with certain religious and cultural customs, traditional cheeses from Portugal and the Middle East are rennetted with vegetable rennet. Artisanal Premium Cheese stocks a variety of Portuguese thistle-rennet cheeses. Their unique texture and bright, herbal tang appeals to vegetarians and non-vegetarians alike. Microbial rennet consists of enzymes derived from fungal or bacterial sources. Some microbial rennets are derived from microorganisms that naturally produce chymosin, the enzyme responsible for the coagulation of milk. Other types of microbial rennet have been altered in a lab to produce chymosin by means of the same genes found in a calf's stomach. These rennets were developed in the late 1980's in response to a shortage of animal-derived rennet and increased consumer demand for vegetarian-friendly cheese. Very strict vegetarians may wish to avoid cheese with this type of rennet, even though animals are not involved in its day-to-day production.

 

[renuka]

Food definitely changes the behavior of a person. Not me. Even krishna said that in Bhagavad Gita. And today Science confirms that nutrition in diet changes the behavior of a person.

Krishna says in Bhagavad Gita, food which are stale, smelling, fermented alcoholic stuff are liked by Tamasic people, who are ignorant/foolish. Science says alcohol dehydrates the brain, removes inhibitions and impairs judgement.

Krishna says food which are excessive in taste (bitter, sour, salty, sweet) cause diseases, misery and distress. Science says excessive salt consumption causes BP, sugar consumption (ofcourse lack of exercises also) causes diabetes, fat consumption causes cholestrol/heart diseases etc..

Krishna says food which are juicy, pulpy and hard that are pleasing to heart need to be taken. Science says fibrous, good fat and balanced diet need to be taken.

There is no doubt that food affects the behavior of a person.

Food and Behaviour Research: Home

The question u may want to ask is by MODERATE or say SOCIAL drinking does the behavior of a person gets changed..?

The answer to that is a resounding YES and it is just over a period of time.

-TBT

Dear Sir,

Out here there a famous lawyer who has to have his alcoholic drink and then go to court.
When the other lawyers see that he has taken alcohol they fear losing their cases to him cos he always wins all his cases after taking alcohol.

So I really don't know what influences a person's mind anymore!LOL

 

[thebigthinkg]

Sri. Dinesh, Greetings.

It is really very strange to see members can start a thread in their first post itself. I really think the admin needs to look at the policies.



Well, in most places I have seen the opposite is advised. Inflexibility is not a good policy. I don't really believe people live by that policy either. To start with, in most employments, the salary offered is less than the salary expected; people are flexible in accepting a lower salary... they don't say " I better die standing..." possibly may apply to Sri. Dinesh too. By the way, if someone has a principle, it should apply everywhere.. not just at selective convenient places only.

Not all the vegetarians and vegans are brahmins. Someone is considered in the caste of brahmin when someone is born in that caste... not by any other means. So, connecting vegetarian diet to brahmin caste is not correct. Brahmins generally may be vegetarians today; but that does not make it compulsory for all the brahmins to stay as vegetarians.

I am not expecting any reply from Sri. Dinesh.. still I like to ask... kindly tell me, where did you get the idea it is compulsory for brahmins to stay vegetarians, please? If not Sri. Dinesh, others may answer too, please.

Secondly, what is wrong in the consumption of alcoholic drinks?

I am interested in a discussion in favour of alcoholic drinks and non-vegetarian diet. Thank you. ( consumption of non-vegetarian food and/or alcoholic drinks would not make someone loose his/her caste identity anyway).

Cheers!

Sir,

Everyone has their own way of living.. Bengal Brahmins eat fish. There are people who say drinking milk is non-vegetarian, but eating fish is not. So it all depends on the custom.

The question on this topic was if TamBrahms should eat non-veg. I say NO. As I wrote earlier, food habits of people depend on environment. Landed classes have survived on agricultural products. Coastal communities survive on fish. Lower classes have survived on meat.

Every community has adapted itself to a certain way of living and that is what is instilled as its culture. Culture is nothing but institutionalized learnings from the past. The TamBrahms have adapted to a non-vegetarian way of living over thousands of years as over generations they have realized that, such a living provides longevity. Today science says non-vegetarianism definitely improves the quality of life and many research show that it has potential to improve longevity too, though there are many complex factors determining longevity.

The same is with alcohol. Most societies including western have had a love-hate relationship with alcohol. Alcohol will slowly get in, start destroying the society and there will be a backlash that prohibits it, over a period prohibition will get weakned, alcohol emerges back and ti is a cycle.

Not just in India, in most civilizations from times of yore this is what has been happening.

The TamBrahm culture prohibits alcohol totally. It is in line with what Krishna teaches Arjuna in Bhagavad Gita where he says Fermented stuff promotes ignorance and should not be taken.

Why not follow our culture and our learnings..?

-TBT

 

[thebigthinkg]

Dear Sir,

Out here there a famous lawyer who has to have his alcoholic drink and then go to court.
When the other lawyers see that he has taken alcohol they fear losing their cases to him cos he always wins all his cases after taking alcohol.

So I really don't know what influences a person's mind anymore!LOL

I also know many pilots who can't fly without a drink. I also know people who cannot remain steady and talk without an alcoholic drink. So..?

In fact I have worked with de-addiction centers when I was young. Drug addicts cannot remain stable and coherent without their drug. So..?

It just means that dehydration of brain which results in removing inhibition and impairing judgement is a basic neccessity for their survival. It just means that parts of their brain has got spoiled to such an extent that they are clouded by self-doubt and ihibitions..



-TBT

 

[renuka]

I also know many pilots who can't fly without a drink. I also know people who cannot remain steady and talk without an alcoholic drink. So..?

In fact I have worked with de-addiction centers when I was young. Drug addicts cannot remain stable and coherent without their drug. So..?

It just means that dehydration of brain which results in removing inhibition and impairing judgement is a basic neccessity for their survival. It just means that parts of their brain has got spoiled to such an extent that they are clouded by self-doubt and ihibitions..



-TBT

But what about those who do not drink, do not smoke,never miss their prayers,vegans but still are unkind and mean?

I have met many people like this in my life..so that's why I feel food does not really influence the basic nature of a person.

I feel our basic nature is influenced by environment and our past birth tendencies.

It is really hard to generalize..even though I would not recommend drinking or eating non veg to anyone but I personally feel none of this really influences our basic nature.

 

[Raji Ram]

........ I also wonder why other customers stopped buying his food.

May be there were :argue: + :fencing: in all the houses of the customers!

 

[renuka]

May be there were :argue: + :fencing: in all the houses of the customers!

Dear RR ji,

Sometimes certain business men out here hop over to Thailand to get black magic lucky charms to enhance business.

I have no idea if this person was using it becos his business was booming suddenly and after a few months business failed.

Out here there are even trips arranged specifically for getting black magic charms enhancer.
I saw on pamphlet in on restaurant where details were given.

Flower Bath ritual and also luck enhancer ritual to be done on Amavasai at 12 midnight!
I was wondering what ritual is done on Amavasai that too at 12 midnight.

And the trip also includes visits too Thailand famous massage parlors!LOL

I guess sometimes some black magic charms have fast expiry date or may be he did not renew it...cos most of it need yearly renewal.

 

[amala]

If fermented stuff are not to be taken at all what about yoghurt? The famous tambrahm thayir saadam ? What about dosai etc?

 

[drb]

Recently out here where I stay some controversy arose that a particular brand of butter from Denmark had traces of Pig DNA also along the enzyme lines.
It was promptly removed from the Halal section of .......

Then the proper question would be practicing vegetarianism to avoid harm to animals or just aversion to animal products or culture?

If avoiding harm to animals is the reason, then life would be bit more complex to make choices. In some way a small part of animal product/derivative may still creep into the house without one's knowledge.

As an example, I do not eat eggs (no meat as well). In a terrible scenario, say I require total parenteral nutrition and get fed intralipid or liposyn II, should I be worried about the phosphatides derived from egg yolk (for emulsification) in that drug? Definitely not. I am not eating egg per se, but taking a derived product from it which would save my life.


I was just pointing that having rennet in vegie burger is not equal to actually eating meat at any level.

 

[sarang]

Andal approves it. "பின்னே பாற்சோறு மூட நெய் பெய்து முழங்கை வழி வார"; paal, tayir and vennai are all satvik food.

If fermented stuff are not to be taken at all what about yoghurt? The famous tambrahm thayir saadam ? What about dosai etc?

 

[PANCHANATHAM CHANDRASEKAR]

Dear mr.dinesh,
i am also joining you in sharing your concern of brahmins eating n.v.
As i read somewhere " a man is what he eats" that is his attitude changes when animals blood go inside. A brahmin never indulge in murder case and i have not seen in the history of news that a brahmin killed anybody.
When our forefathers have given us discipline we need to follow. Those who does not follow, leave it go god. That is their fate. But our entire community name is being spoiled by these kind of people. What to say , this is kaliyuga
god bless everybody
panchanatham chandrasekar iyer

 

[sangom]

Dear mr.dinesh,
i am also joining you in sharing your concern of brahmins eating n.v.
As i read somewhere " a man is what he eats" that is his attitude changes when animals blood go inside. A brahmin never indulge in murder case and i have not seen in the history of news that a brahmin killed anybody.
When our forefathers have given us discipline we need to follow. Those who does not follow, leave it go god. That is their fate. But our entire community name is being spoiled by these kind of people. What to say , this is kaliyuga
god bless everybody
panchanatham chandrasekar iyer

Shri iyer,

I think you are talking within the limits of tabras, because, it is my thinking that we cannot relate caste (brahmins) and murder. Godse was a brahmin; I have come across cases of brahmin peasants firing and killing neighbours and all due to property disputes, etc. The Bengali brahmins also are very highly emotional, and may be, we will find some murders committed by them also if we analyze news reports from there.

The notion that "a man is what he eats" is highly misleading. At the literal level then most tabras ought to be idli-like, dosa-like etc., and north indians will be chapathi-like or puri-like, if not these edible items them selves. True, one of our upanishads proclaim ahaṃ annaṃ annaṃ adantaṃ admi, but the context is different and it does not mean the same as "a man is what he eats'.

I agree that our community's name is spoiled especially because other caste people will point this out if we restrict them from eating nv food in our presence, our precincts, etc. But then, in today's India it is illegal if we do so, I think. Hence let us allow the changes gracefully.

 

[drb]

At the literal level then most tabras ought to be idli-like, dosa-like etc., and north indians will be chapathi-like or puri-like, if not these edible items them selves.

I don't think Shri Iyer meant people who will look like or transform into whatever they eat. It was funny the way you described, but that's not the meaning or what was meant.

Basically, eating meat promotes more killing of animals, eventually, it will lead to novel ways to taste meat. I have seen many videos of asian people eating live fish, frog and what not. probably they got bored of cooking.

 

[sankara_sharmah]

A person does not become a non-vegetarian just because he/she eats non-vegetarian food in a restaurant or party. Cooking of Non-Vegetarian food in a Tamil Brahmin household is very rare.

There are many who like a particular non-vegetarian dish like Chicken Tikka or a Hamburger.

But given a choice between an excellent Thayir satham and chicken which would he/she prefer? I have seen a whole lot of people gravitating toward Thayir satham in parties when word goes around that the thayir satham is out of the world.

I am a vegetarian by choice. I am a teetotaler now. Again by choice. Frankly I still love Cognac and single malt Whiskey (on the rocks). But I have given them up for more than 10 years now.

The choice should be given to the younger generation. No compulsion in the name of religion.

 

[thebigthinkg]

A person does not become a non-vegetarian just because he/she eats non-vegetarian food in a restaurant or party. Cooking of Non-Vegetarian food in a Tamil Brahmin household is very rare.

There are many who like a particular non-vegetarian dish like Chicken Tikka or a Hamburger.

But given a choice between an excellent Thayir satham and chicken which would he/she prefer? I have seen a whole lot of people gravitating toward Thayir satham in parties when word goes around that the thayir satham is out of the world.

I am a vegetarian by choice. I am a teetotaler now. Again by choice. Frankly I still love Cognac and single malt Whiskey (on the rocks). But I have given them up for more than 10 years now.

The choice should be given to the younger generation. No compulsion in the name of religion.

I agree and disagree.

I agree that youngsters should not feel compelled in the name of religion.

I disagree that youngsters need not be taught our culture, our value systems (which is an implicit meaning in what u wrote).

I would request the RESPONSIBLE ELDERS to understand why our way of life has come about and help our youngsters to understand it and err on side of caution.

Our culture, religion et al are ways of life which are institutionalized learnings from our past and cannot be just like that overthrown in a day, as they are a collective wisdom of past. So when we trample on past things, we have to do it with responsibility.

Sorry if I am interluding.. just thought would share my thoughts..

-TBT

 

[prasad1]

I am vegetarian, and my child chose to be vegetarian.
My child may have been influenced by our culture and life style.
But like Sankara_sharmah wrote

The choice should be given to the younger generation. No compulsion in the name of religion.

 

[sangom]

I agree and disagree.

I agree that youngsters should not feel compelled in the name of religion.

I disagree that youngsters need not be taught our culture, our value systems (which is an implicit meaning in what u wrote).

I would request the RESPONSIBLE ELDERS to understand why our way of life has come about and help our youngsters to understand it and err on side of caution.

Our culture, religion et al are ways of life which are institutionalized learnings from our past and cannot be just like that overthrown in a day, as they are a collective wisdom of past. So when we trample on past things, we have to do it with responsibility.

Sorry if I am interluding.. just thought would share my thoughts..

-TBT

Shri TBT,

When we talk of "our culture", I have seen that more often than not the reference is to the culture which goes back to the vedic times. Hence, if we are talking about, say, the last 500 or 800 years, it will be better to specify that.

If we consider "our culture" that which has come right from vedic times, we have documentary evidence in our smritis to prove that NV was accepted, nay compulsory, for Sraaddhas. Even the system of Sraaddhas has undergone radical changes over the centuries. There is therefore nothing but your own mental image of some mirage-like "our culture". Just as the insistence on NV food for the Sraaddha Baahmanas seems to have completely vanished, for not clarly known reasons, it is quite possible that whatever you consider as "our culture" today may also simply vanish. In taking a policy decision that our individual preferences need not be imposed upon the society as a whole, we are just following democratic norms only.

 

[biswa]

Even Leonarda Da Vinci who is speculated as a gay may belong to Brahmana Varna.

Wait, wait, so Brahmins are not allowed to be gay? I wonder why you brought in the alleged homosexuality of Da Vinci when deciding whether to include him in Brahmana Varna.

 

[amala]

Andal approves it. "பின்னே பாற்சோறு மூட நெய் பெய்து முழங்கை வழி வார"; paal, tayir and vennai are all satvik food.

Apparently according to one earlier post, Krishna dissapproves of fermented food as it causes ignorance etc. I approve of Aandal's approval and go along with her

 

[thebigthinkg]

Dear Sangom,

Krishna says

yata-yamam gata-rasam
puti paryusitam ca yat
ucchistam api camedhyam
bhojanam tamasa-priyam

I called puti (foul smelling) paryusitam (prabhupada calls it decomposed or unrecognizable) as fermented.

In reality milk turning sour naturally is called spoiled milk. It is foul-smelling and should not be eaten. I don't think any of us in our household take spoiled milk as curd. Science says spoiled milk has toxins and should not be taken.

The curd that is produced by acidification (by adding curd to it) does not have toxins as acid inhibits the growth of harmful bacteria. This curd is neither decomposed nor foul-smelling and can be taken.

All alcoholic substances are foul-smelling, contain alcohol (unlike curd that contains acid) that dehydrates brain.

-TBT

 

[renuka]

All alcoholic substances are foul-smelling,
-TBT

Dear Sir,

Alcohol is not foul smelling.It has a unique smell and Benzyl alcohol is in fact aromatic.

 

[biswa]

Since this has become a chemistry lesson, let me add that the foul smell in rotten food is not due to alcohol. It is due to ammoniacal (nitrogenous) decomposition products of bacteria produced by breaking down proteins. Alcohol is produced by anaerobic processing of starch and sugars by yeast.

Not sure what all this has to do with vegetarianism though.

 

[thebigthinkg]

Dear Sir,

Alcohol is not foul smelling.It has a unique smell and Benzyl alcohol is in fact aromatic.

Well, alcohol in itself may be made aromatic. But alcoholics do have bad breadth often..

Essentially putrid substances are not to be consumed.

-TBT