Anna Hazare arrested. Crowds swell in support. What will happen?

[T.S.Sankara Narayanan]

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This extent of Raise of AH is due to the Sluggishness of UPA which Totally failed to Stop Corruption right from the beginning of This Parliament,more than 2 years ago.

When the opposition demanded The need of the Influence of PM on Spectrum 2 G ,What did The PM and Sonia did?

They tried to safe guard A.Raja ,on fear that DMK may quit from Alliance.

The very same story happened in Aadarsh Case and CWG cases also.

Even now he is trying to Guard Sheela Dikshit.

If he was Mr.Clean as propagated,he must have taken action against Culprits Honestly,and immediately on hearing the Corruption.

At least if he employ some agencies like CBI to inquire the matter.

He did it now only after arriving at a Condemnation from The Hon'ble Court.

So only the Anger of the People,took a " U " Turn and join hands with Shri AH.

People Totally Lost Their hope on Cong.

Every body please imagine, all Congress PMs in India,During Independence Day, usually promise people that Their Govt will fight against Corruption every year.

This is a Regular Happening of all the 65 years.

The fact is They Did Nothing to Eliminate Corruption.

 

[talwan]

Hello TSS,
I THINK YOU FORGOT TO ADD IN THE LAST LINE ' BUT DID EVERYTHING TO ENCOURAGE,SUPPORT CORRUPTION''
Alwan

 

[T.S.Sankara Narayanan]

Sir,
I think I have not Forgotten to add anything.

In fact I have not exaggerated any thing, but True,I think.

I don't think in what way I have exposed to Encourage and support Corruption.

 

[Yamaka]

[h=1]Hello ALL:

"Ten differences between Jan Lokpal Bill and Govt Bill[/h]MR Madhavan, PRS Legislative Research
Updated Aug 19, 2011 at 07:27pm IST

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The streets are witnessing a demand that the government's Lok Pal Bill be replaced by the Jan Lok Pal Bill (JLP) as drafted by the team led by Anna Hazare. There are several significant differences between the two bills. In this note, we describe the some of these differences.
First, there is a divergence on the jurisdiction of the Lok Pal. Both bills include ministers, MPs for any action outside Parliament, and Group A officers (and equivalent) of the government. The government Bill includes the Prime Minister after he demits office whereas the JLP includes a sitting Prime Minister. The JLP includes any act of an MP in respect of a speech or vote in Parliament (which is now protected by Article 105 of the Constitution). The JLP includes judges; the government Bill excludes them. The JLP includes all government officials, while the government Bill does not include junior (below Group A) officials. The government Bill also includes officers of NGOs who receive government funds or any funds from the public; JLP does not cover NGOs.
Second, the two Bills differ on the composition. The government Bill has a chairperson and up to 8 members; at least half the members must have a judicial background. The JLP has a chairperson and 10 members, of which 4 have a judicial background.

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Third, the process of selecting the Lok Pal members is different. The JLP has a two stage process. A search committee will shortlist potential candidates. The search committee will have 10 members; five of these would have retired as Chief Justice of India, Chief Election Commissioner or Comptroller and Auditor General; they will select the other five from civil society. The Lok Pal chairperson and members will be selected from this shortlist by a selection committee. The selection committee consists of the Prime Minister, the Leader of Opposition in Lok Sabha, two Supreme Court judges, two high court chief justices, the Chief Election Commissioner, the Comptroller and Auditor General and all previous Lok Pal chairpersons.
The government Bill has a simpler process. The selection will be made by a committee consisting of the Prime Minister, the leaders of Opposition in both Houses of Parliament, a Supreme Court judge, a high court chief justice, an eminent jurist and an eminent person in public life. The selection committee may, at its discretion, appoint a search committee to shortlist candidates.
Fourth, there are some differences in the qualifications of a member of the Lok Pal. The JLP requires a judicial member to have held judicial office for 10 years or been a high court or Supreme Court advocate for 15 years. The government Bill requires the judicial member to be a Supreme Court judge or a high court chief justice. For other members, the government Bill requires at least 25 years experience in anti-corruption policy, public administration, vigilance or finance. The JLP has a lower age limit of 45 years, and disqualifies anyone who has been in government service in the previous two years.
Fifth, the process for removal of Lok Pal members is different. The government Bill permits the president to make a reference to the Supreme Court for an inquiry, followed by removal if the member is found to be biased or corrupt. The reference may be made by the president (a) on his own, (a) on a petition signed by 100 MPs or (c) on a petition by a citizen if the President is then satisfied that it should be referred. The President may also remove any member for insolvency, infirmity of mind or body, or engaging in paid employment.
The JLP has a different process. The process starts with a complaint by any person to the Supreme Court. If the court finds misbehaviour, infirmity of mind or body, insolvency or paid employment, it may recommend his removal to the President.
Sixth, the offences covered by the bills vary. The government Bill deals only with offences under the Prevention of Corruption Act. The JLP, in addition, includes offences by public servants under the Indian Penal Code, victimization of whistleblowers and repeated violation of citizen's charter.
Seventh, the government Bill provides for an investigation wing under the Lok Pal. The JLP states that the CBI will be under the Lok Pal while investigating corruption cases.
Eighth, the government Bill provides for a prosecution wing of the Lok Pal. In the JLP, the CBI's prosecution wing will conduct this function.
Ninth, the process for prosecution is different. In the government Bill, the Lok Pal may initiate prosecution in a special court. A copy of the report is to be sent to the competent authority. No prior sanction is required. In the JLP, prosecution of the Prime Minister, ministers, MPs and judges of Supreme Court and high courts may be initiated only with the permission of a 7-judge bench of the Lok Pal.
Tenth, the JLP deals with grievance redressal of citizens, in addition to the process for prosecuting corruption cases. It requires every public authority to publish citizen's charters listing its commitments to citizens. The government Bill does not deal with grievance redressal.
Given the widespread media coverage and public discussions, it is important that citizens understand the differences and nuances. This may be a good opportunity to enact a law which includes the better provisions of each of these two bills.
(M R Madhvan is the Head of Research at PRS Legislative Research, New Delhi.
PRS works with MPs across party lines to provide research support on legislative and policy issues. PRS provides a comprehensive and credible resource base to access Parliament-specific data, background information and analysis of key issues.)"




I like political activism, rallies and slogans..

But, somehow, I don't like Hunger Strike by anyone...including Anna Hazare, Ramdev or whoever.

This conjures up images of Freedom Fighters and Gandhiji.. that was against the British..the Occupying Force...

But, today what we have is People's Elected Gov't.. we must agitate and ask for remedies for our grievances; but do NOT abuse Hunger Strike and Emotional Blackmail.. that's ABUSE.

For heaven sake, DO NOT create Ken Starrs as Special Prosecutors without checks and balances - for they will wreck the Elected Govt.

Cheers.

 

[Yamaka]

This extent of Raise of AH is due to the Sluggishness of UPA which Totally failed to Stop Corruption right from the beginning of This Parliament,more than 2 years ago.

When the opposition demanded The need of the Influence of PM on Spectrum 2 G ,What did The PM and Sonia did?

They tried to safe guard A.Raja ,on fear that DMK may quit from Alliance.

The very same story happened in Aadarsh Case and CWG cases also.

Even now he is trying to Guard Sheela Dikshit.

If he was Mr.Clean as propagated,he must have taken action against Culprits Honestly,and immediately on hearing the Corruption.

At least if he employ some agencies like CBI to inquire the matter.

He did it now only after arriving at a Condemnation from The Hon'ble Court.

So only the Anger of the People,took a " U " Turn and join hands with Shri AH.

People Totally Lost Their hope on Cong.

Every body please imagine, all Congress PMs in India,During Independence Day, usually promise people that Their Govt will fight against Corruption every year.

This is a Regular Happening of all the 65 years.

The fact is They Did Nothing to Eliminate Corruption.

Corruption, Bribery and Abuse of Power is endemic in the Society... pinning that to just Congress Party is pure and simple DIRTY POLITICS by the Opposition.

Yes, Congress is the oldest Party, and perhaps accumulated plenty of waste products.. then what about BJP and NDA ?

Case in point, Karnataka Govt..

In this discussion of Lokpal Vs Jan Lokpal Bill, where does the BJP stand?

They only look for Political Opportunism to steal from a burning house!

What else is new here?

 

[Nara]

....maybe AH is now a cranky old man on the verge of senility, with an inflated ego and high sense of self importance ?

K, may be, may be not. I have never heard of this man till a few months back. If the man is having his 15 minutes of fame, I won't take umbrage, let the man have his due. Whatever may motivate this man, it is clear his message has found traction, millions in India are ready to lend him support. If a strong JLP emerges from all this, then a cranky old senile man having his outsized ego boosted is a small price, n'est paa?

...., I still feel that AH & Co., should have first widely circulated these vital differences to the public, and demanded that the draft LPB should incorporate these changes.

Probably you are right, but then we do not know what took place behind the scene. In this respect the Indian media are no better than the U.S. ones, simply mouthpieces to the state.

Also, I am not sure what is there for AH and his supporters to gloat about, the only bill under scrutiny is PL. If all they wanted was publicity and did not care what happened to JPL, then they gloating makes sense. May be I am naive, but such a possibility does not make sense to me.

For all the noise BJP is making, they are also not interested in a strong JLP -- I suppose they still nurse the possibility they may one day return to power.

In short, if AH ends up like Baba Ramdev, that is the end of all hopes and ultimate victory for the corrupt politicians.

Yes, this is why I hope AH succeeds. Clearly, the present system has not worked. It is time to try something new.

Cheers!

 

[T.S.Sankara Narayanan]

In Karnataka The Congress in Disguise of Governor and H.D.Kumaraswamy jointly give direct attacks and indirect attacks on C.M. and they never allowed him to rule the country peacefully in The State.

If any party lost the Trust of People,it has to wait till the next election and in the Meanwhile it must involve in attracting the People.

But both Cong and Kumaraswamy has no Patience to wait and give Tortures to BJP Govt daily.

If BS Yediyurappa did anything Wrong he has to face the Consequences. No Direct or Indirect support on the side of BJP for Corruption.

If Cong is Genuine Why did it support Shila Dekixt even after Matter related to her hand in CWG is exposed ?

 

[kunjuppu]

'Anna Hazare's movement is anti-social justice, manuwadi' - The Economic Times

ok, here is a view, more in tune with my line of thinking.

i didnt know till know, how to express it effectively. but this article does.

let us not get carried away by the old man

 

[ShivKC]

Whatever may motivate this man, it is clear his message has found traction, millions in India are ready to lend him support. !

25,000 to support him on ground.. may be another 1/4 million on streets ( I doubt), and another 1/10 million on internet.. a good sampling among 1200Mn people.. no law of statistics would justify it..

imagine how much big the crowd (min 10 million) and self immolation would be, if rajnikanth asks seeking a bill in parliament to give death penalty to those behind video piracy?

how about H.D Dewe gowda, in his own typical style of rallying, by sending people to delhi by mass booking the train tickets.. he can easily gather few millions ( and gathered in the past too) and block the parliament doors to block cauvery water to t.n. you will find 1000 kannada vedikas fasting until death!

imam of india, waiting for anna to succeed. he can gather the highest protesting crowd in delhi, than any one could imagine. he is only waiting for anna to succeed, waiting to force in to the throat of MMsingh yet another bill asking him to table a 20% Muslim reservation bill?

anna is a small little kid here among with radio chaos.

list is endless.. give then a long rope, they'll fc it up!

 

[Iyyarooraan]

Technicalities are better addressed by the secretaries of the respective parties. Lakhs of crores of rupees have been swindled and the rot should be stemmed here and now on war-footing. ஆறிய கஞ்ஜி பழம் கஞ்ஜி. For the present enough awareness has been created. We have to await the result. Already there is a talk of excluding judiciary. Whatever may be the outcome,a few amongst us might remember today's condition and will vote accordingly next time. This momentum is important and significant. It is all for common good. All we are talking about is against corruption, not MM, or AH. We should raise the decibel of our protest.

Jo pahunche baadh chitti ke, use hum taar kehtein hain,
Jo maare doctor ko use hum bimaar kehtein hain,
Jo dhakke se chalti hai use hum car kehtein hain,
Jo dhakke se be nahi chalti hai, use hum sarcaar kehtein hain,
sarcaar kehtein hain.

 

[Yamaka]

'Anna Hazare's movement is anti-social justice, manuwadi' - The Economic Times

ok, here is a view, more in tune with my line of thinking.

i didnt know till know, how to express it effectively. but this article does.

let us not get carried away by the old man

The issues raised by this article are VERY important to me:

1. Is Team Anna believing in India's Constitutional Democracy, Representative Govt and Social Justice?

2. Do we have real grass root participation in this Indian Summer of Anna's Movement or is it some Upper Crests' Opposition to the Elected Gov't?

When 3/4 of India's citizens are languishing under Rs. 150 per day of income, Why Anna NOT talking about their Rights? Is that not a form of Social Corruption?

Wait & watch.

 

[subbudu1]

'Anna Hazare's movement is anti-social justice, manuwadi' - The Economic Times

ok, here is a view, more in tune with my line of thinking.

i didnt know till know, how to express it effectively. but this article does.

let us not get carried away by the old man

Kunjuppu these arguments seem rather misplaced to me with all due apologies to the concerned people. I dont know about the political motivation of the commentators. I dont think democracy is in a good shape today. Democracy cannot be a mandate for doing what you want once you get a popular vote.

There needs to be a check on even a democratically elected government. If majority of the people are corrupt cannot mean a corrupt man can get elected. Such a thinking will end up eating the very fabric of society instead of taking it in a path of evolution. One can debate what democracy means. I am for a just government which stands for justice for all, not just justice for a majority. Agreed as per Yamaka's views a large section of India, is corrupt. That cannot mean that they can get to elect the corrupt. I consider this as a false philosophy. It will defeat and destroy even the very people who elected this corrupt lot. If majority of a state or a country wanted a fanatic to rule the country that wish of the people cannot be honored.

Minority has to have equal freedom as majority. And that is the check on the so-called institutions. Thus even if government wants it cannot easily throw away articles in the constitution that defines us a secular country. Corruption is a universally accepted right. It has proven to have an effect right from the position of the highest elected person. In India the highest elected person did not come to power due to the support of majority. That itself is a sham anyway isn't it.

I find these writers are probably worried about ther loss of dalit representatives. But unfortunately dalits or non dalits there needs to be an independant body to investigate corruption. I dont know how it should come to place. But it should be there. Here I support Anna.

 

[subbudu1]

Yes, this is why I hope AH succeeds. Clearly, the present system has not worked. It is time to try something new.

This is what I am hoping too.

 

[Nara]

This is what I am hoping too.

Dear Subbudu sir, I must say I am a little puzzled by the opposition to AH's proposal. I also had reservations, and I still have objections to certain provisions, like the one that will allow JLP to sit in judgment on cases they investigate and prosecute. These are issues that can be sorted out if the important provisions like suo motto cognition of complaints, subpena powers, initiate prosecution, scope to cover everyone, etc., are not compromised. But I don't understand the wholesale objection to the entire idea itself.

The objections raised so far seem very weak to me. K's objection that AH is a senile old man seeking publicity is ad hominem, does not throw any light on the proposal itself. The first time I heard AH's name was about two months ago and my first thought when I heard of him was about the unusual name "aNNaa" for a northie, is there a connection to Tamil anna, I wondered?

Initially I was also very skeptical, is this AH just another charlatan? I wondered whether this is just political posturing to create confusion like the Tea-party folks in the U.S. After following this story for a few weeks, I now think JLP is a good idea to combat corruption and abuse of office by the powerful -- irrespective of the author's mental state or motivation.

Y's objections also seem quite nebulous. I don't quite understand what the objection is. If the concern is that AH may be a puppet in the hands of Hindutva forces, then I must say I am a little apprehensive about this myself, on the surface. But, upon further thought, I think we are reacting to mere shadows.

First the fear that BJP may abuse JLP is too far fetched -- I don't foresee BJP coming back to power in our life times. Even if they do, the authority of JLP will come from the statute, not who is in power. So, BJP cannot misuse JLP, even in the unlikely event they get to wield political power again.

Also, it is important to note that JLP is not a BJP creature working against Congress, or a Congress creature working against BJP. If properly legislated and implemented, JLP will be an ombudsman of sorts, on steroids, for all Indians, keeping a check on all the political forces, Congress and BJP.

Shri Sangom sir is pessimistic about UPA actually passing JLP bill into law without diluting it down to nothing more than a paper kitten. This is a real problem and I do share his concern. Well, we can hope and chant yes we can, considering it is not Obama running GOI, capitulation is not inevitable.

In summary, I don't quite understand the rationale for this blanket opposition to JLP proposal. If the objection is primarily because of who is in support of the proposal, then, I request you to reconsider.

Cheers!

 

[kunjuppu]

dear subbudu,

pray let me try to explain the article's viewpoint and which it reflects more of what i think.

let us take an analogy. it was during the women's liberation movement of the 60s, when gloria steinem's flag was flying at its highest, and reddy's 'i am woman' topped the charts. one was puzzled by the absence of black american women in the movement. not only that, they actively disdained the movement.

the reason, being, they were so down at the bottom of the totem pole, an effort at alleviating the injustices of those several rungs above
them ie the white middle class women, did make no sense to them. nowhere in the women's liberation movement, was there a prominent
call to right the more than double wrongs which these women experienced ie black and women among other things.

the dalit of india, by and large, i think, would feel the same towards anna hazare. the article points out that the dalits are double victimized
again, bar a small minority - lowest end of the caste totempole and poverty/illiteracy. as was rightfully said, the biggest corruption of
human values was what manu's laws imposed on these people over milleniums

do we hear one word about them, from the pseudo gandhi aka anna hazare. how could he pretend to be leading a second battle of
independence, if he did not atleast take the cue from mohandas who embraced the harijans, although he too would not cross the caste
lines. even in tamil nadu, the dalit is far from free. the tambram domination has been replaced by one of nadars, vanniars and gounders.
the mudaliars and pillais are also licking their wounds, and the chettiars too busy counting their money to be bothered by anna.

as my friend Y would say, 'wait and watch'

ps.. to understand the extension of our perverted view of indian democracy, was it not here, that someone suggested that we go back to
the period of IG's emergency. more than 7 million men were forcibly sterlized. maybe that is what the poster meant as something 'good' for the country

which sums up my view, that any extra parliamentary movement to grab power and force laws - which i still dont know how they can pass,
for after all the government may table a law, but we have 500+ independent thinking parliamentarians, each with an axe to grind against
JLP bill. and i think, the votes are in secret. right?

 

[கால பைரவன்]

All the people who are shouting against this movement today will keep quiet if caste-based reservations are introduced in selecting members of JLP committee. The fact that no such provisions were included is their main grouse. All talk about this being unconstitutional, or anti-poor is pure humbug. In fact, corruption affects poor people the most. These people are standing in the way of citizens who are trying to fight against it.

 

[kunjuppu]

All the people who are shouting against this movement today will keep quiet if caste-based reservations are introduced in selecting members of JLP committee. The fact that no such provisions were included is their main grouse. All talk about this being unconstitutional, or anti-poor is pure humbug. In fact, corruption affects poor people the most. These people are standing in the way of citizens who are trying to fight against it.

hi bhairavan,

may i please request you, not , imagine what my (or folks who think like me) would hypothetically behave.

i have pointed out what i think is a serious shortcoming in anna's movement. ie absence of inclusiveness.

also, i have serious reservations about the extra parliamentary nature of the movement. india is not egypt or soviet union. it is an elected legal full fledged democracy.

we have an opportunity every 5 years to throw the rascals out. if a majority of the country feels about corruption the way you do, they can
throw out the congress and have anna and all his thambis & thangais. ok?

no need to term my arguements as humbug. these are solid fears based on precedence of abuse of power.

it is not that i am condoning corruption. but i personally do not think, even if all of anna's ideas are implemented, these will work. our malaise is
deeper than that, and i think, folks of your ilk, do not understand, that any reform, should start at the grass roots.

the success of the dravidian movement, or the erstwhile pre independent success of the congress, was, that these were in touch with the people.
right across board.

i am not so sure about anna. i feel it is an elitist middle class movement, increasingly hijacked by hindutva politicians. i think that alone is a
guarantee for its failure - absence of inclusiveness. those left out, will sabotage it, no matter what.

ok?

 

[Nara]

.....do we hear one word about them, from the pseudo gandhi aka anna hazare.

Well K, for Dalits Gandhi was a pseudo, so what would a psedo of pseudo Gandhi be?

K, I hear a lot of criticism of AH, and that makes me wonder about him, may be he is a creep, since I don't know much about him as a person, I will take your word for it, I am ready to declare him a no-good senile egomaniac.

Yet, creep or not, AH seems to have captured the imagination of millions in India with his JLP proposal. That by itself does not add up to much in my books, except to give his proposal a serious look.

Give it a look I did.

What I saw, when I gave it a look, was a plausible proposal that charts a way for India to overcome the corruption and abuse of power.

Is this not what the debate is about, how good is the proposal? Let AH be the worst plague to hit India, let AH be flown to the stratosphere and pushed out of the plane -- we can talk about that elsewhere if there is interest. But here, now, the topic is his proposal, and I really like to know what is bothering you with the proposal. Hope you will do me the honor of giving me your objections to his proposal -- not the man, but the proposal.

Since I have nothing on AH's personal proclivities, I am happy to concede to your knowledge on it and I shall vote with you that AH is a creep. But with respect to JLP, I find AH's proposal, in the most part, sound. How such a sound proposal came out of an old senile egomaniac, I know not, but his JLP proposal makes a lot of sense, except a few minor points that need to be ironed out. What do you see wrong with the proposal?

Let us bury AH, if you so wish, but not his proposal, let us discuss it to see whether there is anything there worth talking about.

So, K, what is it in AH's proposal you find objectionable?

Cheers!

 

[Yamaka]

"Y's objections also seem quite nebulous. I don't quite understand what the objection is. If the concern is that AH may be a puppet in the hands of Hindutva forces, then I must say I am a little apprehensive about this myself, on the surface. But, upon further thought, I think we are reacting to mere shadows."

Dear N:

1. My general view is people need Integrity and Professionalism. This is lacking among our current prosecutors, police, CBI, ED, Judges and Courts etc. These people must prosecute and get conviction of those engaged in both retail and whole sale corruption - the bribes may be Rs.200 to Rs. 200 Crores per transaction. The perpetrators are in all walks of life including ALL politicians, police, judges etc, perhaps with few exceptions here and there.

As Nandan Nilakarani (former CEO, Infosys) said, passing either Lokpal or Jan Lokpal Bill will NOT abolish corruption so easily... perhaps, it would be yet another weapon in the arsenal...

The Super Prosecutors should be people of high Integrity and Professionalism. Do we have it here?

2. Why do I have low enthusiasm about Team Anna?

a. They are bent upon emotionalizing the issue and force people to TAKE their VERSION - "My Way or No Way", using Hunger Strike as the first weapon of choice.

b. The Gov't has worked with them as much as possible and already accommodated many of their suggestions in their VERSION LP Bill, which is already tabled and awaiting debate, amendments and voting.

c. Team Anna, so far, has NOT found any Sponsor for their JLP Bill (although Varun wants to do him a favor and steal some thunder!). If they are serious people believing in the Procedures and Process of the Parliament, they must move their Bill through the Parliament.

d. Maybe, they know that there is NO support for their JLP Bill in the whole of Parliament, including the members of the NDA. If they believe in the Parliamentary Democracy in India, they must just quit now and prepare to form a New Party to compete in the National Election in 2014.

This is what any sensible person will do, IMO. Anna does not seem to be a sensible person.

He is interested in creating law and order problem in the country.

That's very bad for the country.

That's why I have low enthusiasm for Anna and his Modes Operandi.

I want him fail, and learn the Right Lessons of Rule of Law and the Supremacy of the Elected Parliament and the Govt.

Stay tuned.

 

[happyhindu]

The Aam Aadmi's fight is against corruption. Anna Hazare is merely a symbol representing it. I do not know about Anna Hazare's personal life nor do i wish to know about it. I feel most people also think similarly. They do not wish to know about Anna Hazare's personal life (or no one seems to care if he is senile or not). All people want is to root out corruption. The hindutva brigade is merely sensing some political mileage out of this. I hope they are not joining the movement merely to spoil it in the end.

 

[Yamaka]

Kunjuppu these arguments seem rather misplaced to me with all due apologies to the concerned people. I dont know about the political motivation of the commentators. I dont think democracy is in a good shape today. Democracy cannot be a mandate for doing what you want once you get a popular vote.

There needs to be a check on even a democratically elected government. If majority of the people are corrupt cannot mean a corrupt man can get elected. Such a thinking will end up eating the very fabric of society instead of taking it in a path of evolution. One can debate what democracy means. I am for a just government which stands for justice for all, not just justice for a majority. Agreed as per Yamaka's views a large section of India, is corrupt. That cannot mean that they can get to elect the corrupt. I consider this as a false philosophy. It will defeat and destroy even the very people who elected this corrupt lot. If majority of a state or a country wanted a fanatic to rule the country that wish of the people cannot be honored.

Minority has to have equal freedom as majority. And that is the check on the so-called institutions. Thus even if government wants it cannot easily throw away articles in the constitution that defines us a secular country. Corruption is a universally accepted right. It has proven to have an effect right from the position of the highest elected person. In India the highest elected person did not come to power due to the support of majority. That itself is a sham anyway isn't it.

I find these writers are probably worried about ther loss of dalit representatives. But unfortunately dalits or non dalits there needs to be an independant body to investigate corruption. I dont know how it should come to place. But it should be there. Here I support Anna.

Dear Subbudu Sir:

I hear you.

We all must oppose both Bribe Giving AND Bribe Taking; as per the current law BOTH are punishable, if found guilty, as I understand it.

Then, why are we not prosecuting people for this pervasive offense with the State and Central laws on the books?

Lack of Integrity and Professionalism among the prosecutors, police, CBI, ED, Judges and the Courts, which only reflect the pathology in the Society at large.

One estimate says that nearly 2/3 of Indians have engaged in Bribe Giving and/or Bribe Taking in their lives.

Luckily, another estimate says that India is far BETTER than China and Russia but worse than Brazil on corruptions, bribery and abuse of power! Lol.

As such what we need is a Cultural Change from bottom up.. How do we achieve it? I don't think Anna Hazare is talking about any solution there.

He wants to FORCE his way on to others - His Way or No Way - he will go on Hunger Strike and possibly create law and order problem in the capital city!!

As I see the difference between his Version of JLP Bill and the Gov't's LP Bill, one very difficult and controversial issue is

Allowing the Sitting PM, MPs and the Upper Judiciary to be covered by the LP Superstructure.

In the US and many other countries, the Chief Executive and his Office and his Secretaries ARE IMMUNE to legal prosecution. This is to allow the Govt to function smoothly without any legal hitch. This is good for the country as a whole.

Therefore, I support the Govt's position that PM, MPs (in their action inside the Parliament) and Upper Judiciary must be exempted from the Lokpal.

People may say that's the real TEETH to the LP Bill... I disagree. If we improve the Integrity and Professionalism of the people, then with the existing laws and the LP Bill, India can make enormous progress in reducing rampant corruption, IMO.

Then, who can vote on this particular issue ?: The Elected Members of the Parliament.

Anna Team does not acknowledge the Supremacy of the Parliament and its Elected Members...

They have different view of Democracy, Constitution and Rule of Law..perhaps.

That's why I oppose Anna Hazare and his Movement...of Hunger Strike and possible Blackmail.... lol

Cheers.

ps. They remind me of the Tea Party Movement, and Ken Starr in the US. Both are bad for America, IMO.

 

[subbudu1]

Dear Subbudu Sir:

I hear you.

We all must oppose both Bribe Giving AND Bribe Taking; as per the current law BOTH are punishable, if found guilty, as I understand it.

Then, why are we not prosecuting people for this pervasive offense with the State and Central laws on the books?

Lack of Integrity and Professionalism among the prosecutors, police, CBI, ED, Judges and the Courts, which only reflect the pathology in the Society at large.

One estimate says that nearly 2/3 of Indians have engaged in Bribe Giving and/or Bribe Taking in their lives.

Luckily, another estimate says that India is far BETTER than China and Russia but worse than Brazil on corruptions, bribery and abuse of power! Lol.

As such what we need is a Cultural Change from bottom up.. How do we achieve it? I don't think Anna Hazare is talking about any solution there.

He wants to FORCE his way on to others - His Way or No Way - he will go on Hunger Strike and possibly create law and order problem in the capital city!!

As I see the difference between his Version of JLP Bill and the Gov't's LP Bill, one very difficult and controversial issue is

Allowing the Sitting PM, MPs and the Upper Judiciary to be covered by the LP Superstructure.

In the US and many other countries, the Chief Executive and his Office and his Secretaries ARE IMMUNE to legal prosecution. This is to allow the Govt to function smoothly without any legal hitch. This is good for the country as a whole.

Therefore, I support the Govt's position that PM, MPs (in their action inside the Parliament) and Upper Judiciary must be exempted from the Lokpal.

People may say that's the real TEETH to the LP Bill... I disagree. If we improve the Integrity and Professionalism of the people, then with the existing laws and the LP Bill, India can make enormous progress in reducing rampant corruption, IMO.

Then, who can vote on this particular issue ?: The Elected Members of the Parliament.

Anna Team does not acknowledge the Supremacy of the Parliament and its Elected Members...

They have different view of Democracy, Constitution and Rule of Law..perhaps.

That's why I oppose Anna Hazare and his Movement...of Hunger Strike and possible Blackmail.... lol

Cheers.

ps. They remind me of the Tea Party Movement, and Ken Starr in the US. Both are bad for America, IMO.

While I acknowledge your concern there are serious mistakes that are being made in assuming things about India

Indian parliamentary system and the Indian constitution was first constituted as a right of majority. This is not true in the first place, the views of the common Indians were never ascertained while framing the laws that would be in place to elect a person. Over a period of time voter participation has increased, and there seems to be some sort of mandate to get the persons in parliament elected. But whether the elected representatives have allowed a truly democratic atmosphere to exist is a question. The first example is use of money power to propagate. The corrupt make the most money and they stand to propagate themselves more. Second once in power they find all the tricks to manipulate sections of influential public to stay in power. For example even in a place nadars vote for x, thevars would vote for y, dalits for z, then manipulate the alignment such that x+y > z or x+z>y. That is even though x,y,z have their own interest ,based on selecting a candidate who can cause the right division in votes for the party to get in power, the candidate and party wins. Then parties support people who never show up as partners before the elections. This is a vicious circle and not a true democracy. That is why corruption persists as the common has few option owing to the influential presence of corrupt parties. The Aam Admi still does not want corruption even though for practical reasons many of them are, but a little bit of discipline and order , is all that is needed to put them on track. I live in India and I can vouch that about a state believed to be very corrupt, where I live in.

One may argue that people are corrupt. I dont agree. When a majority of Indian is not so corrupt that he will stick to his family in case of trouble, shows that the average Indian is responsible. It is the lack of discipline and the environment that has been setup for the Indians that is the cause. You can never address a thing unless it is cleaned from the top.

Another important thing, regardless of how democratically the parliament members were elected, every Indian has the right to mobilize people. And if majority of Indians over a period of time come over to his side, then as per rules of democracy, he has the right to challenge the existing parliamentary system. The fact that people come in support of him, is that they have lost faith in the existing system. May be today only the middle class have come in support. But these are not all uppercastes. I have heard that dabahwallas have come in huge numbers to support him. This cannot therefore be termed as just an elite movement. In such a situation it is possible that even others as they understand the significance of things can cross over to Anna's side. One need not be taken for a ride by the likes of Chidambaram and other members in Congress. Any political party will oppose someone till the last breath if his ideals are a threat to them. The fact that he has collected so many people is a cause of concern to them politically and they will invent any number of reasons to weaken his support base.

For me the fact that the likes of Kiran Bedi have come out in support of Anna, is itself a good sign.

 

[suraju06]

Technicalities are better addressed by the secretaries of the respective parties. Lakhs of crores of rupees have been swindled and the rot should be stemmed here and now on war-footing. ஆறிய கஞ்ஜி பழம் கஞ்ஜி. For the present enough awareness has been created. We have to await the result. Already there is a talk of excluding judiciary. Whatever may be the outcome,a few amongst us might remember today's condition and will vote accordingly next time. This momentum is important and significant. It is all for common good. All we are talking about is against corruption, not MM, or AH. We should raise the decibel of our protest.

Jo pahunche baadh chitti ke, use hum taar kehtein hain,
Jo maare doctor ko use hum bimaar kehtein hain,
Jo dhakke se chalti hai use hum car kehtein hain,
Jo dhakke se be nahi chalti hai, use hum sarcaar kehtein hain,
sarcaar kehtein hain.

Jo dhakke se peeche chalthi hai usko aap kya kahenge maharaj?

 

[sangom]

Dear Sangom Sir:

What bothers me most is that Anna insists that his VERSION of the Jan Lokpal Bill must be passed by the Gov't. Otherwise, he threatens to fast for an indefinite period.

This is pure and simple Blackmail... this must be understood as such, and the Govt must NOT yield.

Let the Parliament pass whatever VERSION it deems it appropriate. Executive Branch should not yield to the whims and fancies of a an Autocrat!! Anna Hazare should not be pampered.

Let Anna continue whatever he wants... if there is threat to law and order, Delhi Police MUST act proactively to protect people's life and property.

Anna & Thambis/Thangais must take full responsibility if the mayhem ensues.

Instead, if he says

"Do the Right Thing, Enforce All the Laws, Enact More Laws and Eradicate Corruption in a few years...

I beg my supporters and everyone DO NOT give or take bribes in your daily life"

would be more meaningful.

Watch out, the media is creating another Dictator!

Media is in the back pockets of Corporates and Political Parties!

Emotions of innocent people are wasted in the hoopla!!

Wait & watch.

Dear Shri Yamaka,

I am in full agreement with your views above, except that some of the media (like CNN/IBN, HEADLINESTODAY, NDTV) are giving undue coverage to the Anna phenomenon. That is what makes the whole thing suspicious because imo, these channels have no involvement in India's welfare but are only interested in stories with news value. Anna, like Ramdev may not be able to get even the govt.-drafted LPB passed soon and may withdraw ultimately under one face-saving gesture or another and then all those supporters will look like real clowns.

You are also correct to say that there should not be a super-govt. under the guise of the JLP who will be above all of the govt., including the President of India perhaps.

 

[ShivKC]

Another important thing, regardless of how democratically the parliament members were elected, every Indian has the right to mobilize people. And if majority of Indians over a period of time come over to his side, then as per rules of democracy, he has the right to challenge the existing parliamentary system. The fact that people come in support of him, is that they have lost faith in the existing system

this is called revolution and fits the agenda of impatient citizens who cant wait for 5 years.

if all this black mailing could succeed in democracy and if anna could don the shoe of a dictator for middle class bourgeoisie, he is again wrong. we had not come across something like 'Tienanmen square' in india, and will not in future too.

given a chance to rajnikanth, narendra modi,deve gowda,bal thakre, kazhagams, indian catholic institutions, muslim league, dalit panthers et al, have a much better mass organizing capacity even to seize the parliament. anna's crowd is minuscule.

glad, our democratic set up is so intertwined in such a way, that it has its own checks and balances already in place to counter this. the president/ steel frame of india, ie administrative services/judicial system is all there to have a counter check on the elected system.


systems and laws are already in place. who is going to implement, unless every individual stops it. as i said earlier, ITC's business has only increased, after the enacting the smoking ban law.. so, how do we control smoking. its by bringing awareness among people. the society should change..