Alexander vs Porus – who was Porus, where is Buchaphelus & Nicea ?

[Govinda]

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Dear JK ji,God knows how Malaysia got its name..some claim that it is named after the mountain Malaya cos pre independence Malaysia was called Malaya.Anyway we have a road called Mahameru here..so don't ask me how all these names came here.

Possibly from SumAli. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sumali

 

[renuka]

Possibly from SumAli. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sumali

Wow! I hope this is true since SumAli is the maternal grandfather of Ravana..I am such a Ravana fan!

 

[Jaykay767]

Hi Renuka,

LOL !

Chola conquest of South east asia, was a big impact to thatregion. While I have not done an in-depth analysis of this region, I believe thereason Indo-nesia is named as such is due to the fact that Alexander & hissoldiers called the land beyond the Vindyas as Indo/Indae, & this name wentalong with the Cholas to the newly conquered lands. So no surprise, why theofficial career of Indo-nesia is called Garuda ! Bali still survives with a lotof our rituals & temples. And there is a place called Ayutthya in Thailand!!

Thailand, Indonesia, Cambodia/Ankor Wat, etc.. all wereinfluenced by the Chola Kings & their followers. Of course a lot of localkhmer & other influences add to the uniqueness of the region.

Similarly I would not be surprised if Malaysia is namedafter the Hi-malaya/s JIn the case of Singapore, there is a clear documented legend by the British& the locals claimed & still claim that Singapore was founded by thedescendants of Alexander soldiers

Cheers,

 

[renuka]

Hi Renuka,

LOL !

Chola conquest of South east asia, was a big impact to thatregion. While I have not done an in-depth analysis of this region, I believe thereason Indo-nesia is named as such is due to the fact that Alexander & hissoldiers called the land beyond the Vindyas as Indo/Indae, & this name wentalong with the Cholas to the newly conquered lands. So no surprise, why theofficial career of Indo-nesia is called Garuda ! Bali still survives with a lotof our rituals & temples. And there is a place called Ayutthya in Thailand!!

Thailand, Indonesia, Cambodia/Ankor Wat, etc.. all wereinfluenced by the Chola Kings & their followers. Of course a lot of localkhmer & other influences add to the uniqueness of the region.

Similarly I would not be surprised if Malaysia is namedafter the Hi-malaya/s JIn the case of Singapore, there is a clear documented legend by the British& the locals claimed & still claim that Singapore was founded by thedescendants of Alexander soldiers

Cheers,

Dear Jaykay,

You must read even history with a pinch of salt!LOL

There is a person called Munshi Abdullah a learned scholar who was initially known as an Tamilian Muslim from India....but now to make things sound more exotic his is said to be Arabic!

So you see history changes..as far as I know there are no Greek looking people anywhere in Malaysia or Singapore!


You see everyone wants to be from somewhere else.

 

[Jaykay767]

Hi Renuka, The greeks/alexander soldiers were a very small population when they landed in India, so they got intermixed in to the local population, but the origin was preserved & it continued as legends in all the lands their descendants conquered.

 

[Jaykay767]

Hi Renuka,

You may be interested in - Vatapi Ganapathi now installed inTamil Nadu – Tiruchengattangudi, was personally worshipped by King Ravana. KingRavana, the only mythical Brahmin King was a great Sanskrit Scholar & aworshipper of Shiva. Lanka stands for “SacredIsland” in Sanskrit.

So Sanskrit language, 4 Vedas, manusmriti, Upanishads,Shaivite philosophy, all our religions, all originate in this sacred Island from theRavana Kingdom & after the fall, the Brahmins move to the other kingdoms / TamilNadu & continued this work leading to the Advaita & Dwvaitaphilosophies of Adi Shankara & Ramanaujam.

By the way, did you know we already worship Ravana ?. It isRavana who is Brahma in our texts. In some statues, Ravana is seen as 3 headed.

Cheers,

 

[Jaykay767]

Chalukyan Kings established a num of Nava Brahma statues in Karnataka/Andhra, though not worshipped, & my view is it is King Ravana who was/is worshipped as Brahma !!

 

[renuka]

Hi Renuka,

You may be interested in - Vatapi Ganapathi now installed inTamil Nadu – Tiruchengattangudi, was personally worshipped by King Ravana. KingRavana, the only mythical Brahmin King was a great Sanskrit Scholar & aworshipper of Shiva. Lanka stands for “SacredIsland” in Sanskrit.

So Sanskrit language, 4 Vedas, manusmriti, Upanishads,Shaivite philosophy, all our religions, all originate in this sacred Island from theRavana Kingdom & after the fall, the Brahmins move to the other kingdoms / TamilNadu & continued this work leading to the Advaita & Dwvaitaphilosophies of Adi Shankara & Ramanaujam.

By the way, did you know we already worship Ravana ?. It isRavana who is Brahma in our texts. In some statues, Ravana is seen as 3 headed.

Cheers,

Well..I was always impressed with Asuras.

Devas just fail to impress.

May be girls like Bad Boys!LOL

BTW those who want to get into Vaikuntha better worship Ravana after all he is the gate keeper there!

 

[Jaykay767]

Hi Renuka,

LOL !. Ravana himself is Brahma is the correct extrapolation. Let me explain.

1. Brahma is the creater of all Brahmins. Ravana is the only Mythical Brahmin King in all our texts.
2. Creation of 4 Vedas are also credited to Brahma.So Vedas originate in the Brahmin Kingdom led by Ravana. Many of our kings wrote great Sanskrit texts, so Ravana being a great Sanskrit Scholar is the creater of the 4 Vedas !!
3. Out Vedic Texts extensively quote Brahma, however Shiva & Vishnu are not quoted in the Vedas. Brahma is the Prajapati - creater of the universe, hence the most important Vedic God.
4. Only in subsequent texts – after the Ramayana war, Shiva & Vishnu gain primacy over Brahma through the puranas.
5. After the Ramayana/MahaBaratha period, Adi Shankara re-establishes Shaivism, & the Advaita Philosophy.
6. In the Advaita, you will see, the supreme being is “Brahman’ re-establishing the primacy of Brahma. All else are manifestation of the Brahman. You can see, the supreme being is not called as Shiva or Vishnu.
7. In popular literature of course, Brahma is not worshipped due to the incestuous relationship.

Cheers,

 

[Jaykay767]

In the 100 Ramayanas by Ramanujam, he says Sita is the daughter of Ravana & comes from his womb. So you see the connection between Ravana & Brahma. So Ravana = Brahma is the creator of the Universe & the Brahmins !!

 

[Jaykay767]

bharata-vyapadesenahyamnayarthah pradarsitah
vedah pratisthah sarve sarve purane natra samsayah

"On thepretext of writing the Mahabharata, Vyasa explained the meaning of the Vedas.Certainly all the topics of the Vedas have been established in the Puranas."(Visnu Purana)



Many of the Vedic texts are very complex to deciphersince many of them have multiple meanings, interpretation. Hence Vyasa explainsthe meaning of Vedas in the MahaBharatha. So as you can see, for the Brahmins,the Vedas are the primacy & Brahma/Brahman is the surpreme being. !!

 

[renuka]

7. In popular literature of course, Brahma is not worshipped due to the incestuous relationship.

Cheers,

Dear JK ji,

When Brahma is the creator..everything is created by him..hence any relationship he has will be deemed incestuous!

BTW I do not really buy all these Puranas stories about Brahma chasing after his daughter etc..its all man made tales spoiling the name of religion itself.

BTW everything is BRAHMAN including Brahma,Vishnu and Shiva.

Hope there is no confusion about BRAHMAN and Brahma here as your post seem to almost cause a confusion here.

 

[auh]

I sincerely wish that this thread were started in the "Jokes" section. Or it might be that the thread owner placed a bet with someone that any !@#% topic could be used to develop heat in the forum... and this the proof.

Renuka seems very interested in these new pronouncements of truth.

I only wonder if pegasus is mistakenly called the pushpaka vimana, or as Garuda !! LOL !!!

 

[renuka]

I sincerely wish that this thread were started in the "Jokes" section. Or it might be that the thread owner placed a bet with someone that any !@#% topic could be used to develop heat in the forum... and this the proof.

Renuka seems very interested in these new pronouncements of truth.

I only wonder if pegasus is mistakenly called the pushpaka vimana, or as Garuda !! LOL !!!

Dear Auh Ji,

I am having fun!

BTW I wonder who is Medusa?

 

[Jaykay767]

Hi Renuka,

Yes, everything comes from Brahman !! But the definitionof Brahman by Adi Shankara closely parallels Brahma. In the Vedas, Brahma isthe creator of the Universe – so everything comes from him ? !!. AdiShankara defines Brahman as a supreme being, all powerful to Shiva, Vishnu& Brahma, but if you study closely, Brahman is a “super brahma” J


All I am saying is that for Brahmins, Brahma was the mostimportant Vedic God until the puranic stories took root in the popular culture.Later, Brahma was not worshipped in temples other than by the Vedic Chants bythe Brahmins..

And Adi-shankara, when he talked about the supreme being,he could have easily called it as Shiva or some other name, but choose to callit as Brahman !!

Cheers,

 

[auh]

I am having fun!

You are treading on a thread where each word cannot but drip with logic so much so that Sravna was compelled to chide detractors openly.

But please carry on; let me also have some fun; from the sidelines.

 

[renuka]

Hi Renuka,

Yes, everything comes from Brahman !! But the definitionof Brahman by Adi Shankara closely parallels Brahma. In the Vedas, Brahma isthe creator of the Universe – so everything comes from him ? !!. AdiShankara defines Brahman as a supreme being, all powerful to Shiva, Vishnu& Brahma, but if you study closely, Brahman is a “super brahma” J


All I am saying is that for Brahmins, Brahma was the mostimportant Vedic God until the puranic stories took root in the popular culture.Later, Brahma was not worshipped in temples other than by the Vedic Chants bythe Brahmins..

And Adi-shankara, when he talked about the supreme being,he could have easily called it as Shiva or some other name, but choose to callit as Brahman !!

Cheers,

Dear JK ji,

Since you are into Puranas..I wonder why the whole story of Parashurama throwing his axe or ladle into the sea and see recedes and Kerala is formed is NOT in Bhagavatha Purana but this story is only mentioned in Brahmanda Purana?

Why the discrepancy?

Any idea..may be you can give a new twist to this story.

 

[Jaykay767]

Hi Renuka,

LOL !. No, I don’t know – have not analyzed this yet

Also note, there is NO contradiction in what I have said so far. Brahma/Prajapati was the most important Vedic God apart from Indra, Varuna etc.. Shiva & Vishnu were not mentioned in our Vedas, they become more popular only in the puranas !!

If you just stick to the Vedas & then look at the essence of it, everything revolves around Brahma. After the Ramayana war, Ravana (& thereof Brahma) is dis-credited & is not in the popular imagination.

To this day, for us south Brahmins in all the Vedic mantras we chant, Brahma is the most commonly used God !! that's what led me to analyze this more closely !!

Cheers,

 

[Jaykay767]

Hi Renuka,


In all the legendary Shaivite vs Vaishanvite fights,people miss the important fact that Adi Shankara calls the Supreme Being asBrahman re-establishing the primacy of Brahma !. Interpreting the Vedic textsis extremely complex due to the numerous interpretations, that’s where theGenius of Adi Shankara comes to the fore & his Advaita Philosophy !!

I have been consistent with this, if you remember wayback when I posted on this first, I said, it is high time for us to build atemple for Ravana & pray to a Great & Noble King !!

That’s why I called our religion as Vedic Religionbecause the essence of Vedas pervade across all our texts – whether it is theVendantas, Upanishads, Ramayana, MahaBharatha, Advaita or Dwaita etc..

Cheers,

 

[Jaykay767]

Hi Renuka,

So to me, Advaita by Adi Shankar is absolutely the pinnacle & Crown Jewel of our Vedic Religion. Imagine if a Genius like Adi Shankara had to come & interpret the Vedas – of course he added many of his own thoughts !!, what a bigger Genius Ravana/Brahma must be for creating these Vedic texts !!

Cheers,

 

[renuka]

I have been consistent with this, if you remember wayback when I posted on this first, I said, it is high time for us to build atemple for Ravana & pray to a Great & Noble King !!

In a way I agree with you.

Actually I get kind of mad when anyone says anything bad about Ravana.

During Dusshera I used to think why one earth ordinary humans dare make images of Ravana and burn him down when none of us come anywhere near him in greatness.

I also used to wonder why Sita never fell in love with him.

 

[Jaykay767]

Hi Renuka,

Absolutely agree with you!! Unfortunately, a lot of people including our Great Ramanand Sagar’s TV serials have contributed to this negative image of Ravana.

Lets look at Ravana from the various sources & see if he deserves our praise !

1. Ramayana – Valmiki writes very highly of Ravana as a Great King & blames his weakness for Sita as the reason for his downfall.
2. Tamil Dravidian records that talk highly of Ravana as a Great Noble King who led the kingdown wisely & justly. All of them say – Sita ranaway with Ravana.
3. Kannada folks songs – Yakshagana – talks highly of Ravana & describe him as a Great Noble King who led the kingdown wisely & justly. Here again some have claimed Sita runsaway with Ravana.
4. Puranas – Even when some puranas talk badly of Ravana, many of them still describe him as a Great Noble King & attribute his downfall to weakness for Sita.
5. Illiad/Troy – In this, Ravana/Priam is God & there are huge num of accounts of his greatness. Homer goes at length to talk about him as a Great Noble King, his just rule & how his subjects adored him !!
6. IN Troy – Helen falls in love & runsaway with Paris. So why did Ravana NOT handover Helen to Menelaus (Rama). The reason is Helen does NOT want to go back, that’s why Ravana/Priam does not send her back. How can any King (that too in ancient times) refuse shelter to a woman when she asks for his protection ??????????? – this was impossible, hence leading to the war.
7. Victors have reason to Glorify & hide their faults, the dead have NO reason to lie. Hence I would trust Troy to be the more correct version.
8. So if Helen/Sita runsaway with Paris – Priam/Ravana’sson, then Ravana truly was Great Noble King unlike what is portrayed in popular imagination.
9. In Indian kingdoms even if the Son runsaway with the lady, they will blame the King himself – this is a fair extrapolation. Hence not surprising that in Ramayana Ravana is blamed while in the Greek Classic, it is Paris – Priam/Ravana’s Son !!
10. In one of the most poignant moment, Briseis (Hector/Indrajit’scousin) rushes to stop Achilles (Lakshmana) to go to war with Hector/Indrajit saying “Hector (Indrajit) is the most honest man in this world – don’t kill him” Because she knows that Hector/Indrajit will NOT fight unfairly even when his enemies do !!
11. Ramayana – Even here, the Washerman questions Rama saying how can you live with a woman who lived with another?. so this again clearly means she lived with another man as a wife – Paris !!
12. In Troy – After the war, Menelaus (he survives the war unlike what is portrayed in the Hollywood movie where he is killed) rushes to kill Helen after the war because she went with another man, but overcome by her beauty, forces her to live with him.
13. In Ramayana,& the Pallavan vs Chalukya war, Sita & Narasimha’s lover split & go separate ways after the war
14. None of the Dravidian texts/Kannada Yakshagana will glorify Ravana if he indulged in incest !!! – it is impossible for these communities to accept it & that too in the ancient times.
15. Those who quote the Vedas saying Brahma indulged in incest are absolutely wrong because interpreting Vedas is very difficult & here also – while Brahma is the creator of the 4 Vedas & is quoted extensively, it is Prajapati who marries & gives birth to offsprings. Of course some equate Prajapati to Brahma, but this is not correct!! ** I am in no way an expert in the Vedas, other learned members can correct me if I am wrong.
16. Puranas were written under different kingdoms by the Brahmins after the war, hence they glorified the respective kings & downplayed Ravana.

Hence if you analyze all the texts, to me, it is absolutely clear that with the other records of the war surviving the ages (Troy, Dravidian, Yakshagana folk songs etc..) it fully substantiates that Ravana indeed was a Great Noble King & did absolutely NO wrong in this historicwar !!!.

Befittingly Shankara defines the supreme being as Brahma-n (Ravana) & restores the Glory & legacy of the Great Mythical Brahmin King for all eternity!!

Hail Ravana, Hail Brahma, Hail Brahman !!

 

[renuka]

Hi Renuka,

Absolutely agree with you!! Unfortunately, a lot of people including our Great Ramanand Sagar’s TV serials have contributed to this negative image of Ravana.

Hail Ravana, Hail Brahma, Hail Brahman !!

Dear Jaykay Ji,

Ravana was a good looking guy and yet no one has painted him as how he looked like.

Everyone made him look ugly.

This is totally unfair.

Since good looks run in families..most probably Surphanakha too would have been beautiful and people down played her beauty to prop up Seeta.

That is why when I teach my son Ramayan I tell him the truth that Ravana was not ugly as it is depicted.

 

[Jaykay767]

Hi Renuka,

Priam/Ravana’s sons & daughters were some of the most beautiful people in the world. In the troy story, Achilles stunned by the beauty makes sexual advances towards Priam’s kids & is spurned by them. See that’s the beauty of these 2 classics, every event in Ramayana is covered in Illiad Troy & vice versa !! so you can always counter check the alternate version and then make your decision

So you know the sour grapes story. If a very beautiful girl says no, our guys will blame it as sour grapes & nothing great etc….you know our guys cannot take rejection at all!!

IN Valmiki Ramayana itself, Ravana is known as Tripura Sundara – Most Handsome man in the 3 worlds !

In the Kambar Ramayana, Hanuman stunned by Ravana’s kingdom says, it is one of the best run governments !!

Also the Immortal Illiad Troy classic survived through the ages & is the most popular story ever in this world befitting a great King Priam/Ravana!!


Cheers,

 

[Jaykay767]

Hi Renuka - On a side note, you may want to check on the Greek Cuisine, rice is a very popular dish, some live only on rice , and Lemon Rice (cooked in olive oil) is a very popular Greek dish . I have not done an analysis, whether they brought the rice with them to India OR took it from here !! Cheers,