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A thought on Respect and Civility

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P.J.

Well-known member
Of course everybody has a right to report, since the moderator allows. But I still think it is a bit childish. Particularly if one needs to be goaded by another. Am I allowed to have that opinion or not?

Of course again everybody can cherish their religion, but when they say a particular epic belongs to their own sect only or another says if people worship different gods at different types of day they are false gods or one god is inferior to another, are they not trampling on the religious rights of others?

Renukaji is right is saying it goes both ways. Nobody can clap with just one hand.



Is that the meaning of renukaji's post biswa Sir ???? Congratulations.

Raji madam wanted to send her post to Vishu Sir!!! Post no 23
 

zebra16

Well-known member
Dear Renu,

I wish to point out that I shall forward you post with so many points to Sri. Visu! :)

Who is Sri Visu? is it a typo for Sri Vishnu? If it is the Lord Sri Vishnu, it is indeed GREAT that you have established email contact (?) with the Lord :). If you do get his **selfies** please be large hearted to share it in the forum :)
 

meenam

New member
I like Renuka,s reply . Live and let live . The world is changing so rapidly no time to think, debate etc . However as Brahmins let us pray and be happy we have lived to see another day . Thank Bhagwan every day
 
OP
OP
praveen

praveen

Life is a dream
Staff member
Please do not use this platform to post messages against any religion, especially the muslim community.

The site is becoming more and more anti towards other religions and that is not our motto or what this platform was/is intended for.
 
Please do not use this platform to post messages against any religion, especially the muslim community.

The site is becoming more and more anti towards other religions and that is not our motto or what this platform was/is intended for.


A pragmatic decision. The owner doesn't have the advantages of anonimity that the members might have.
 

Raji Ram

Well-known member
Anonymity gives the freedom to post nasty comments even about our own Gods and Goddesses! :sad:
 
A Word of caution to the general public - BEWARE OF SEASONED FRAUDSTERS

I would like to bring to the notice of general public, especially the most gullible senior citizens who have toiled all their life and have some savings to take care of them till they receive the call from above.

It is because about 90% of investors in this particular fiasco happens to be Brahmins, senior citizens and unfortunately well-educated but NOT well-informed. The very purpose of this letter is to fulfil the requirement of 'being well-informed'.

One Mr R Subramanian, an IIT and IIM genius chose to target maximum number of senior citizens, especially the defenseless Brahmins, promising them slightly or marginally higher returns than the Banks and collected the deposits. He knows very well that these hapless brahmin elders can only make hue and cry among themselves but wont go beyond that. He started Subhiksha in Chennai and other major cities only to dupe the employees and the general public after few years. He was a most effective fraudster - imagine he has duped umpteen number of big banks, and major corporates like Wipro by his sharp skills. Nothing happened though everyone was shocked beyond belief but no one could touch him.

He has started or registered some 60 plus Companies in Chennai with the connivance of concerned authorities, especially the Registrar of Companies - it just defies any logic how this one unscrupulous person was given so much freedom to open Companies and defraud the public with impunity. He started all these companies only to route the money received from public into a labyrinthine cross-network so that no one can trace where the money went.

Vishwapriya Financials and Securities is his recent release - thousands of crores have been swallowed by one man and absolutely no one is able to touch him even remotely. He is able to roam around freely in his Audi cars while the hapless senior citizens are literally in the street. He has devised a fool-proof strategy to fool the investors - he himself has filed a case in the court and as everyone knows the Courts are the last ones to help a hapless common man it sided with this great fraudster and keeps dragging the case - few of the investors have already died and few others are lamenting why at all they had invested in this Company. Only thing the court has done is hear, adjourn, adjourn, adjourn............ That is precisely what Mr R Subramanian wanted and that is his well planned strategy to delay returning money to depositors (in turn that is worst form of denial) and eventually close down his Company and case without even returning one paise to the depositors.

EOW and Courts are just spectators in this cruel episode. Government or any politician worth his salt is not willing to intervene for obvious reasons - they have received their shares for keeping quiet.

How these things can happen in such a well-educated law-abiding society? It is because some vested interests, paid by the fraudsters, keep the information under wraps and DO NOT ADVICE THE PUBLIC EVEN THOUGH THEY VERY WELL KNOW that the public are being duped so openly with impunity.

The sole purpose of this letter is to INFORM THE PUBLIC, ESPECIALLY THE ELDERLY BRAHMINS, TO LEARN from THEIR MISTAKES, KEEP AWAY FROM THESE FRADUSTER COMPANIES AND MOST MOST IMPORTANTLY - ADVISE OTHER PEOPLE TOO TO REFRAIN FROM FALLING INTO THE TRAP OF THESE INDIGENOUS HIGHLY EDUCATED AND SEASONED SHARP-SKILLED FRAUDSTERS.

A.SUNDARARAMAN
On behalf of Viswapriya Investors Welfare Forum.
 

sarang

Well-known member
Very sad. IIT-IIM is a dangerous combination. IITs were launched to produce technology experts and technocrats, but many have chosen the cheat public route as a way of life. Govt and sebi must set up watchdogs to catch these rogues early, attach their assets when the finance company starts defaulting payment on deposits. They are worse than quack doctors.

I would like to bring to the notice of general public, especially the most gullible senior citizens who have toiled all their life and have some savings to take care of them till they receive the call from above.

It is because about 90% of investors in this particular fiasco happens to be Brahmins, senior citizens and unfortunately well-educated but NOT well-informed. The very purpose of this letter is to fulfil the requirement of 'being well-informed'.

One Mr R Subramanian, an IIT and IIM genius chose to target maximum number of senior citizens, especially the defenseless Brahmins, promising them slightly or marginally higher returns than the Banks and collected the deposits. He knows very well that these hapless brahmin elders can only make hue and cry among themselves but wont go beyond that. He started Subhiksha in Chennai and other major cities only to dupe the employees and the general public after few years. He was a most effective fraudster - imagine he has duped umpteen number of big banks, and major corporates like Wipro by his sharp skills. Nothing happened though everyone was shocked beyond belief but no one could touch him.

He has started or registered some 60 plus Companies in Chennai with the connivance of concerned authorities, especially the Registrar of Companies - it just defies any logic how this one unscrupulous person was given so much freedom to open Companies and defraud the public with impunity. He started all these companies only to route the money received from public into a labyrinthine cross-network so that no one can trace where the money went.

Vishwapriya Financials and Securities is his recent release - thousands of crores have been swallowed by one man and absolutely no one is able to touch him even remotely. He is able to roam around freely in his Audi cars while the hapless senior citizens are literally in the street. He has devised a fool-proof strategy to fool the investors - he himself has filed a case in the court and as everyone knows the Courts are the last ones to help a hapless common man it sided with this great fraudster and keeps dragging the case - few of the investors have already died and few others are lamenting why at all they had invested in this Company. Only thing the court has done is hear, adjourn, adjourn, adjourn............ That is precisely what Mr R Subramanian wanted and that is his well planned strategy to delay returning money to depositors (in turn that is worst form of denial) and eventually close down his Company and case without even returning one paise to the depositors.

EOW and Courts are just spectators in this cruel episode. Government or any politician worth his salt is not willing to intervene for obvious reasons - they have received their shares for keeping quiet.

How these things can happen in such a well-educated law-abiding society? It is because some vested interests, paid by the fraudsters, keep the information under wraps and DO NOT ADVICE THE PUBLIC EVEN THOUGH THEY VERY WELL KNOW that the public are being duped so openly with impunity.

The sole purpose of this letter is to INFORM THE PUBLIC, ESPECIALLY THE ELDERLY BRAHMINS, TO LEARN from THEIR MISTAKES, KEEP AWAY FROM THESE FRADUSTER COMPANIES AND MOST MOST IMPORTANTLY - ADVISE OTHER PEOPLE TOO TO REFRAIN FROM FALLING INTO THE TRAP OF THESE INDIGENOUS HIGHLY EDUCATED AND SEASONED SHARP-SKILLED FRAUDSTERS.

A.SUNDARARAMAN
On behalf of Viswapriya Investors Welfare Forum.
 

renuka

Well-known member
One Mr R Subramanian, an IIT and IIM genius chose to target maximum number of senior citizens, especially the defenseless Brahmins, promising them slightly or marginally higher returns than the Banks and collected the deposits. He knows very well that these hapless brahmin elders can only make hue and cry among themselves but wont go beyond that. He started Subhiksha in Chennai and other major cities only to dupe the employees and the general public after few years. He was a most effective fraudster - imagine he has duped umpteen number of big banks, and major corporates like Wipro by his sharp skills. Nothing happened though everyone was shocked beyond belief but no one could touch him.

Dear Sundaram Ji,

I wonder does rules of TB forum allow openly naming anyone for a fraud committed..I can understand that the intend of your post is to warn the elderly..but I was just wondering of any legal implication to name someone for fraud so openly online in a public forum.
 

Vaagmi

Well-known member
Mr. A. Sundararaman's OP reveals very little. It is a lot of verbiage without throwing any light on any thing.

What was the modus operandi?

The name subhiksha rings a bell. I remember the existence of mini supermarkets with that name where I used to get quality provisions at reasonable price. Is this the subhiksha referred to?

IIT and IIM have nothing to do in this game. A sahara could defraud a million depositors of a substantial larger sum and the man who did it, now cooling his heals in jails, was not known to be from any Ivy league institution.

I read in news papers every month at least three or four cases of chit schemes going to the docks and the foremen of these chit schemes vanishing into thin air.

It is a regular thing that happens here.

Our law makers have to become a little more wiser.

Now to Mr. Sundararaman, will you please give more useful info about the fraud instead of being very vague and general?
 

sarang

Well-known member
His name is all over the cyber and media space. There are hundreds more like this all over india.These can be controlled only when RBI, govt, SEBI and other regulating authorities nip them in the bud stage.

Subhiksha promoter's firm faces payment problem | Business Standard News

Dear Sundaram Ji,

I wonder does rules of TB forum allow openly naming anyone for a fraud committed..I can understand that the intend of your post is to warn the elderly..but I was just wondering of any legal implication to name someone for fraud so openly online in a public forum.
 

auh

New member
I would like to bring to the notice of general public, especially the most gullible senior citizens who have toiled all their life and have some savings to take care of them till they receive the call from above.

It is because about 90% of investors in this particular fiasco happens to be Brahmins, senior citizens and unfortunately well-educated but NOT well-informed. The very purpose of this letter is to fulfil the requirement of 'being well-informed'.

One Mr R Subramanian, an IIT and IIM genius chose to target maximum number of senior citizens, especially the defenseless Brahmins, promising them slightly or marginally higher returns than the Banks and collected the deposits. He knows very well that these hapless brahmin elders can only make hue and cry among themselves but wont go beyond that. He started Subhiksha in Chennai and other major cities only to dupe the employees and the general public after few years. He was a most effective fraudster - imagine he has duped umpteen number of big banks, and major corporates like Wipro by his sharp skills. Nothing happened though everyone was shocked beyond belief but no one could touch him.

He has started or registered some 60 plus Companies in Chennai with the connivance of concerned authorities, especially the Registrar of Companies - it just defies any logic how this one unscrupulous person was given so much freedom to open Companies and defraud the public with impunity. He started all these companies only to route the money received from public into a labyrinthine cross-network so that no one can trace where the money went.

Vishwapriya Financials and Securities is his recent release - thousands of crores have been swallowed by one man and absolutely no one is able to touch him even remotely. He is able to roam around freely in his Audi cars while the hapless senior citizens are literally in the street. He has devised a fool-proof strategy to fool the investors - he himself has filed a case in the court and as everyone knows the Courts are the last ones to help a hapless common man it sided with this great fraudster and keeps dragging the case - few of the investors have already died and few others are lamenting why at all they had invested in this Company. Only thing the court has done is hear, adjourn, adjourn, adjourn............ That is precisely what Mr R Subramanian wanted and that is his well planned strategy to delay returning money to depositors (in turn that is worst form of denial) and eventually close down his Company and case without even returning one paise to the depositors.

EOW and Courts are just spectators in this cruel episode. Government or any politician worth his salt is not willing to intervene for obvious reasons - they have received their shares for keeping quiet.

How these things can happen in such a well-educated law-abiding society? It is because some vested interests, paid by the fraudsters, keep the information under wraps and DO NOT ADVICE THE PUBLIC EVEN THOUGH THEY VERY WELL KNOW that the public are being duped so openly with impunity.

The sole purpose of this letter is to INFORM THE PUBLIC, ESPECIALLY THE ELDERLY BRAHMINS, TO LEARN from THEIR MISTAKES, KEEP AWAY FROM THESE FRADUSTER COMPANIES AND MOST MOST IMPORTANTLY - ADVISE OTHER PEOPLE TOO TO REFRAIN FROM FALLING INTO THE TRAP OF THESE INDIGENOUS HIGHLY EDUCATED AND SEASONED SHARP-SKILLED FRAUDSTERS.

A.SUNDARARAMAN
On behalf of Viswapriya Investors Welfare Forum.
This post should be separate and not in this sticky, which is meant for a different purpose.

Having said that it is always an irony to see senior citizens and "defenseless" brahmins invest their purported hard earned money in a company that offers a higher rate than banks!!!

When somebody is in that stage, shouldnt they be looking for safety and security for their money rather than higher returns? Well, if you are into risk taking, this is the flipside.

Fixed deposits, whatever happened to them?
 

tks

Well-known member
There is a thread on 'why we are pessimistic' in the General section.


I wanted to share my view that *repeated* pessimism, negativity and redirecting attacks on a poster instead of a post itself are all examples of disrespect to the forum itself.


In my view, there is nothing wrong with humor often expressed via sarcasm or even cynicism at a topic or subject or even a post. In a healthy debate, which makes the forum come alive, there are occasional expressions of sarcasm towards an idea or thought or even a post.


There are people who may think everything is just a point of view. That is a statement of obviousity but not all points of view have the same impact on the larger cause which in this case is the ongoing health and expansion of the forum's reach itself.


This forum was created by its owner's innovation and resources. Using technolgical expertise adroitly, by creating a diverse and useful knowledg-base and by leveraging a reasonably successful business model, the forum resources are made available to many people worldwide.


The forum thrives when its membership multiplies and given its global reach, diverse knowledge-base and minimal rules of engagement, the membership should have been close to several hundred thousands now in my view. The number of active participants could have easily grown by many orders of magnitude in the last 5 years during which I have been a member.


Yet, the growth of this forum in this world of Internet is somewhat limited and modest in the last 5 years.


My thesis is that everyone who benefits from the forum's content must think of how to help it grow.


The forum is unable to attract people under 45. If at all they come, they want quick answers and disappear forever. There are isolated feedback about why they dont want to participate.


The forum is open to anyone and yet worldwide it has attracted mainly senior citizens by and large. It is undeniable that there are few bad apples who feel like writing anything they feel like without any research or thought and seemingly love to dabble in pessimism bordering on expression of hate towards one group or the other. I do not know the extent of damage such posts cause in attracting new and active members.




I feel we all have a collective responsibility to help improve this forum to the best extent we can.


I want to use a metaphor that a Greek American once used to describe an organization.


We can think of the forum to be like a famous buildings that have stood the test of time, as in Greece. These are tall structures held together by superb foundation and tall columns and continue to be beautiful even after many centuries.


We can think of the foundation of such a buildings to be the work of the forum owner. When we walk in a building, we rarely think of the basement and the foundation. In the same manner while interacting here we rarely think about the forum owner which is a great thing. We are not hampered by unnecessary rules.


Then there are great columns that hold the building structure together. This can be likened to people that provide excellent content in a regular basis. The share their knowledge freely and bring very useful topics. Controversial viewpoints actually help us grow in our views.

There are some topic areas that have produced great dialogs. I do not have to name the members - we know them all for their contributions.


The people visiting the forum can be metaphorically seen as views represented. There are some who may help clean the building out of their interest. These are people who post useful content occasionally .


Finally there are birds and who come in to do their droppings which happens even in great buildings.

These birds can be metaphorically likened to very few selfish people who propagate pessimism or pick fights or attack others for their posts. Bird droppings may be curious to watch for some but over time they can stink a place. It is our collective duty to clean up the buildings. I admire the members who call out such posts gently.


Let us help the forum to grow 10 fold in the next 5 years. It can only help us in the long run!
 

renuka

Well-known member
Frankly speaking I find nothing wrong with forum.

I have no idea why a selected few think that it must "attract" the young people.

Believe me young people are busy with their studies..building a career and also socializing and not to mention falling in love.

Just observe any 25 year old and we would find them busy on Whatsapp watching videos forwarded by their friends..busy sending messages ..busy on Instagram etc.

Whether forum is filled with Bad Apples or Good Apples or Granny Smith Apples it does not really matter. An Apple is an Apple..Good or Bad is entirely our perception.

None of us can fit in the imaginary requirements of another and there is no need to.

There is no need to play Vishwamitra and create a new heaven for any Trisanku here just becos we do not like some posts.

The forum has been running fine all these years.

Any member should feel free to share his/her thoughts...one should be free like a bird to land anywhere and chirp the song of his/her thoughts.
 

sarang

Well-known member
The forum is already a 'specialty forum' as its name proclaims, and caters to a wide section of people and interests. It need not become a super specialty forum, as its utility and aakarshan will diminish.

I recommend this forum to those who want clear doubts on rituals or want to locate stotrams; I am sure many are directed to this site by google search.

Detailed involved serial discussions on any philosophical or sampradayic issues is sure to attract a few for serious participation, but is of limited interest to many (except a few who want to muddy the water with their irrelevant and sometimes vicious interjections).

Strength of hinduism is the ability and capacity to manage contradictions in thoughts and actions in a 'my way, your way' platform.
 

Vaagmi

Well-known member
Frankly speaking I find nothing wrong with forum.

I have no idea why a selected few think that it must "attract" the young people.

Believe me young people are busy with their studies..building a career and also socializing and not to mention falling in love.

Just observe any 25 year old and we would find them busy on Whatsapp watching videos forwarded by their friends..busy sending messages ..busy on Instagram etc.

Whether forum is filled with Bad Apples or Good Apples or Granny Smith Apples it does not really matter. An Apple is an Apple..Good or Bad is entirely our perception.

None of us can fit in the imaginary requirements of another and there is no need to.

There is no need to play Vishwamitra and create a new heaven for any Trisanku here just becos we do not like some posts.

The forum has been running fine all these years.

Any member should feel free to share his/her thoughts...one should be free like a bird to land anywhere and chirp the song of his/her thoughts.

Renukaji, you said it. I agree with you fully.

The forum is doing wonderfully well.

There is no need to recast. It will surely grow further.

Left to itself it will evolve.
 

tks

Well-known member
Forum continues to do well for all members including all those who feel they have no skin in the game in its growth.

All one needs is an email address to be a member. They do not have to pay for anything. Of course they are welcome to come with a sense of entitlement !

If a member is dissatisfied for any reason they can always choose to not visit the forum. So saying the forum is fine for its members is not the issue raised in post #41

Even while expressing disagreement, it necessary to understand the points made first.

This thread itself is about our thoughts on civility and disrespect. I added the consequences of a particular form of disrespect not only just to each other but to the forum itself.

In Post 41, the first line is

" wanted to share my view that *repeated* pessimism, negativity and redirecting attacks on a poster instead of a post itself are all examples of disrespect to the forum itself."

The lack of younger members is not the main problem , it is a symptom.

It is also a fact that in 5 years the growth of membership is relatively small compared to many such internet based services.

Forum is free to join, sort of anonymous, has a huge knowledge-base of diverse topics and well laid out, has global reach, supports minimal rules and responsive to the member's requests.

It is hosted in probably in a very well maintained site given that there are hardly any disruptions.

All these cost is supported probably by ad-revenue which is determined by number of viewers. Hence any well wisher of the forum would want to see that it continues to grow regardless of the age group of its members.

There are no edicts or rules for this. It is just my thought that *some* members may have interest in its ongoing growth. Such a thinking itself is a form of showing our gratitude for what has been created by its owner and by many of the active content creators.

I understand that few people feeling entitled to express their cynicism *repeatedly* notwithstanding the consequences to the larger cause cannot be reasoned with. So my post is addressed to all others.

Many years ago, during my student days I was traveling in a bus in Chennai during my vacation days from USA. I was sitting in a window seat, next to a fellow who was having a lot of tobacco and Paan in his mouth. A bit later he leaned over me and spat the contents of his mouth into the road.

I asked him if that was right and who he thought will clean all the mess up. This fellow got angry and said - "do you own the road, what is your problem" . Another fellow chipped in and said it will all evaporate in due course of time. One other person said there are no rules posted anywhere that you cannot spit out of a bus into the road.

Hindus regardless of where they are, seem to have limited Samashti Dharma sense compared to any other civilization.

Even in this forum, this manifests as 'who cares' attitude and that was the point of my Post #41.






 

auh

New member
The forum is unable to attract people under 45. If at all they come, they want quick answers and disappear forever. There are isolated feedback about why they dont want to participate.

The lack of younger members is not the main problem , it is a symptom.
You have said this twice now, and I am 100% sure that you are wrong ! ;-)

Hindus regardless of where they are, seem to have limited Samashti Dharma sense compared to any other civilization.
I think it is not due to religion but more related to ethnicity. Asians as a whole generally tend not to bother about anything that does not specifically lie in their line of interest.
 

renuka

Well-known member
At times the 'who cares" attitude can be the best anti depressant.

Why stress ourselves up trying to play superman yet can not fly?
 

Vaagmi

Well-known member
Reading post #41 and 45 I remembered this:


When I came to Chennai first (It was Madras then) one day I happened to witness a street brawl. Two chennaite Auto drivers were making a lot of noise. They were virtually dancing in the street and holding up the traffic. A lot of "taking position to strike" happened repeatedly and yet nothing was really struck. All the while the free flowing Madras Tamil was liberally used to abuse each other. And there was a fairly big crowd watching it. They were perhaps waiting for one to strike the other so that there will be a street fight and the issue would end up quickly and decisively. But that was taking time to happen or was not happening.

From the watching crowd a voice rang out in Tirunelvely Tamil:

"எலே, என்னலே ப்ரச்சின? சொல்லித்தொலைங்கல. பாத்தி கட்டுனதெல்லாம் போதும்ல. சொல்லுங்க இல்லன்னா அடிங்க. சும்மா ஆடாதீங்கல.

I can not help the given situation that I am from Tirunelvely and that I do not understand anything in these posts. and I can not say what that fellow from Tirunelvely said that day to any one here. So I am running away. sorry.
 

sangom

Well-known member
"respect and civility" towards me from others,
and,
a little bit of sarcasm, 'wiser-than-you' attitude, etc., all emanating from the teachings of a proper guru who taught me, and, at times, a parting gift of obnoxious comments— from my side,

will make the forum alright.
 

tks

Well-known member
Purpose of posts #41 and #45 are to discuss ways to enable growth of the forum and that *repeated* pessimism, negativity and redirecting attacks on a poster instead of a post itself are all examples of disrespect to the forum itself and may have negative consequences to the forum's growth.

I abide by the same stated guidelines as well . If I have violated I can be told in PM in order to not waste everyone's time. If I am convinced I am happy to publicly state what the violation was and offer my sincere apologies.

We cannot have 'Wendy Doniger syndrome' in our forum. When she originally published and gave PhD to students at University of Chicago for so called research denigrating symbols and scriptures of Hinduism there were many that were outraged. But one person took the claims to be serious research topics and applied his personal wealth to see the accuracy of the the so called research claims. He was able to debunk most of the claims for some topics but instead of exhibiting academic integrity she ignored this person (who is Rajiv Malhotra) and continued to publish a book both to make money and to further denigrate the symbolism in Hinduism. She even cried foul at her critics.


There is a free speech provisions set up by the forum owner and hence one is free to critique some of our scriptures even if they come across as most obnoxious to our theist friends. However when such claims are shown to be baseless with proper analysis and that they may be arising due to imagination, then it will be desirable to stop propagation of those ideas further. Sometimes a response has to sting to have effect then. I do not think such debates and discussions are disrespectful to a person sincet are directed at the content of the post itself.

Most often claims that do not have strong basis are best ignored so the forum can debate on more interesting topics.

For example, Srimad Bhagavatam actually has many profound concepts and I did have one such thread a while ago extolling the virtues of one of the verse for what it communicated in a lucid manner. If one claims that it is useless text that may amount to pseudo intellectualization which is as detrimental as delusional Bhakthi in my view if such comments are taken seriously. I think people have learned to ignore such comments.

In fact I may want to reopen that thread (citing verse from Srimad Bhagavatam) in the scholarly section for discussion consistent with theme of that section.

Finally there is a wrong notion of humility in some people's mind. It is about what we think of ourselves and how true we are to ourselves only. It is not about how one may have to pretend to come across to others.

In healthy and serious debate it is important to make the point effectively and that will help the forum's growth.
 
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