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What is their intention ?

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Dear All,
People who critiscize orthodoxy are taken to be mischievous or rogues by some here.

What is the point in all this self-dubba or rather praise of one's own self. Some people in the tabra community became famous, may be did some good work. But there were so many others, and there would have been so many more others in so many more communities had they the opportunity. Not all these rich and famous Tabras were 100% perfect. Many of them were double speakers, male chauvinists, liars, crabs( get ahead of the race by pushing some one down). Some of them were good and they mingled with all castes. So what. The faults of some, be used to label every one in the community, is that reasonable? If that is not reasonable then the community should not feel proud about the good among them too and keep harping on that.

Let me introduce a bit about myself. As many would have guessed from my id subbudu1 comes from my name subramanian. I live far away from chennai, my native place, but live within India.

Does the orthodox deserve sympathy in my view? No not all. Sri tks talks about moderately traditional being satvic. I do not know what it means as satvic but I would assume that different people would apply it to different types of people. It is vague as it is being used today. So let me share my experience in living with these moderately orthodox, moderately traditional brahmins who advocate religion and spiritual practices. I have seen plenty of this lot. They wear western dress while going to office, at home take refuge in the name of religion and orthodoxy. But behind all these masks are unsympathetic men and women who live in their own worlds. Good people are there in all sections of the society. But I must talk about the average person. This average lot pretend to be moderate. They keep up conversation with their NB friends, but would think ten times, should I invite them to the kitchen or not. The other thing that TBs fancy is this subtle sarcasm which borders on insults. This is normally reserved for people a bit different even for those within their own community.
I dont how this is in anyway satvic.

For the not so very orthodox ways of my family, we have been routinely abused by words and indirect sarcasm, all in the name of acharam and madi, nothing else. In relative circles we have been kept as separate category, to be invited on occasions, but close friendship would be only within their own kind. This is the moderate orthodox or traditional brand. If one of them gets to a high position in public life then the person becomes a rank distributor. Major pronouncements are made in the family ranking individuals. If you see these ranking, it is inevitably the orthodox who get high marks and the not so orthodox and not so well off low marks. I know one such person who revels in this ranking of people. But the person perhaps never realized that in his personal life, he has many failures, yet because of his cv and worldly achievements he is looked upon with awe, and every comment he makes is preserved in some portion of one's mind. Not to wash dirty linen in public I keep quiet .I fail to see connection between ritualism and qualities. When I have seen these gentlemen who rate others in this forum and take on the self-appointed job of auditors and evaluators, I am immediately able to place them somwhere in my family circle.

In my experience in this forum I could roughly assign the place of different forum members to some one in my family circle. Quite a few are genuinely moderate and good. I bow to them. But I dont accept their defense of their kins who I consider nothing less than rowdies.

Today where are these moderately orthodox or traditional bunch. They are just lost. Some in unknown continents , not able to assign a clear vision for their own life, and yet reluctantly being swept by the changes. The same group who considered themselves as the epitome of madi and acharam have to contend with inter-religion marriages in their own family. I dont see that as any negative. But had you been more open to all these ideas and open to criticism launched by the not so orthodox, you would have handled things better and been more happy.

Talking about satvic and the connection with belief system. I will speak of a man in my circles. He is not a well to do man. Every day he misses work , he misses salary for that day. When no-one in the family had time for a dying relation, he was there , taking leave and looking after this dying man, inspite of loss of pay.
This gentleman I would call him to be good and a gentleman. He does not fit in the othodox or religious definition of satvic. But he was the only person in the family who was there for the dying man. This gentleman was not only not orthodox, but he was a critique of our babas . including the much revered sai baba and other swamijis. Yet if god were looking, I am sure the place where he has reserved for him is heaven. Yet so much for this nonsensical talk about moderate traditionalists being satvic and so on.

Whether traditionalist or not so traditionalists, in my life I have seen nothing but rank hypocrisy proud men and women who are least aware of their surrounding and that their life and actions are worth being critically examined. In that sense my stay away from this orthodox bastion has kept my life peaceful. Today I am a wanted man by my relations, when they have seen more of the world and seen things in their own families , but I share too much hurt and abuses that I would rather maintain a distance, than be continually abused. The forum seems a mirror image of my own extended family.
 

tks

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Dear All,
Sri tks talks about moderately traditional being satvic. I do not know what it means as satvic .

Normally I do not respond to your posts. I have to make an exception to make a request. Kindly do not attribute ideas to what I did not say anywhere. A very simple and laymen definition is this: Being Sativic is about being committed to not causing harm to other and being sensitive to minimize injury to all beings including humans..

This has nothing to do with orthodoxy or any other nonsense..
 
This has nothing to do with orthodoxy or any other nonsense..
I do not know about your personal beliefs . I have already explained that everybody keeps coming out with some vague definition of what satvic means. I however see none applied to a person who debunks revered saints and swamijis, even though he may be a kind person. I gave you a real example . Further it is you not I who mentioned that you side with moderately traditional people because they are satvic. There was no reference to their kindness or something. As you may be well aware, that even the most ardent and stupid critiques of religion, could still be satvic., if we take kindness to mean satvic, You presumed that such members in this forum were not satvic,largely based on their opinion about religion. So you yourself stand contradicted with respect to your words on satvic or whatever such terminology means. Things such as these allow free interpretation these days. i am sure you did not use a sanskrit dictionary to shell out your views on what the term means.
 
Nara,

your post #22 above.

Please give me a day to get back for two reasons.
1. I spend just half an hour daily in TB.com I have to increase it.
2. i have to fix my Tamil IME as this involves a lot of posting in Tamil.

Cheers.
 
Dear Mr. Subbudu,Your post #26:

What is the point in all this self-dubba or rather praise of one's own self. Some people in the tabra community became famous, may be did some good work. But there were so many others, and there would have been so many more others in so many more communities had they the opportunity. Not all these rich and famous Tabras were 100% perfect. Many of them were double speakers, male chauvinists, liars, crabs( get ahead of the race by pushing some one down). Some of them were good and they mingled with all castes. So what. The faults of some, be used to label every one in the community, is that reasonable? If that is not reasonable then the community should not feel proud about the good among them too and keep harping on that.

You said it!!You have two sons one becomes a Nobel laureate and another becomes a petty thief. Because of the second son you should not feel proud of your first son. You should not open your mouth to speak about the Nobel laureate.If this logic is right then what you have said above (within quotes) would also be right.
 
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"Do you think that you are rightly intented to "Get the Whole Story Right" about a positively motivated threads in this www.tamilbrahmins.com ?

Do you think that "General Discussion" threads though initiated with the wish of highlighting some positivities should be subject to scrutiny otherwise of which the purpose of "General Discussion Forum" would not be achieved?"


The key here is "positively motivated"...

Whatever one writes about "positive motivation" may or may not jibe well with some one else' view of "positive motivation".

That leads to "Get the Story Right".....

tb.com encourages and attracts all sorts of views, irrespective of religious beliefs, nationality etc... ask Praveen.

Cheers.

OK...Agreed.

I think, elderly people like you are truly role models for every other. Let us not disturb Mr.Praveen who is allready doing a lot for we all of us, providing this wonderful platform, offering freedom of speach to one and all.

Let us respect each other and be happy. Let us do our best not to distrub Mr.Praveen


 
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Dear Mr. Subbudu,Your post #26:



You said it!!You have two sons one becomes a Nobel laureate and another becomes a petty thief. Because of the second son you should not feel proud of your first son. You should not open your mouth to speak about the Nobel laureate.If this logic is right then what you have said above (within quotes) would also be right.


:thumb:

You said it well Shri Suraju06!!!!!!

Ironically resorting to a personal analogy seem to be the only way to make understand what is what, socially.
 
Dear Mr. Subbudu,Your post #26:


You should not open your mouth to speak about the Nobel laureate.If this logic is right then what you have said above (within quotes) would also be right.
You may continue your bragging but be prepared for chappals when it is proven that your noble laureate son was also a thief and the other unremarkable son was not a thief at all. A person who indulges in self-praise be prepared for the time when one's faults are enumerated too.
 
Nara,

Your lie #1:
I reproduce what u have written in your post #22 above:

I did not make a big deal as I gave the benefit of doubt that it may simply be an unintended mistake. I am unable to get a link to this as the archives of my posts go back only couple of months, but I refer to it as follows when I exposed your second lie.
"One more reason for the harshness is a few weeks back this same Raju misquoted me to make me look bad. I gave him the benefit of doubt that it may have been unintended mistake and allowed him to correct the error. "
I am unable to make out any thing from your post. Please tell me what is the lie and what is the error u r referring to. If u do not have access to archives please reproduce them in your own words afresh now. Then I will reply.

Your lie #2.
I reproduce your words first:
Raju, you accused me thusly, "calls other members' words posted here as bovine feces". I exposed this as a bold faced lie.
It is not as simple as you have presented. This is what you said there:
How one was raised has no bearing on the validity or absurdity of what they say -- whether it is golden or just plain bovine feces must be determined by what is being said, not by how one was raised.
The next time u used the phrase was when u said:You may consider my view is nothing but bovine feces, which is perfectly alright.
Taken away from the context and read in isolation the words can appear to mean different things to different people. Here the the context was my objection to your using uncivilized language in the forum. In your first quote in blue above you said a member’s words will be bovine….. depending on what he said. This is what I meant also and I objected to your use of such dirty words in a forum here. Second quote above also does not absolve you of your blunder just because it is about yourself that you have used it. So there was no lie whatsoever in my words. I hope you won't keep repeating this lie (your) again again any more.
Your lie #3

Again I reproduce your words:

Originally Posted by suraju06
.. You had unnecessarily loaded your "revolutionary"ideas on periyavachan pillai's words.
Raju, you may repeat this canard a million times, but it is not my revolutionary ideas in question, but that of early acharyas.

I will be posting a detailed reply to this separately.

Cheers.
 
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You may continue your bragging but be prepared for chappals when it is proven that your noble laureate son was also a thief and the other unremarkable son was not a thief at all. A person who indulges in self-praise be prepared for the time when one's faults are enumerated too.

Throwing chappals at people is not a culture of satvic brahmins. What is the "self-praise" involved here? Perhaps you are angry. Get back to your normal level and then reply to this please.

Cheers.
 
...Your lie #1:
Raju, these are not my lies, they are yours.


Taken away from the context and read in isolation the words can appear to mean different
This is quintessential prevarication. Your lie was telling the world that I said something that I did not, in any context.

I will be posting a detailed reply to this separately.
I need to brace myself for another barrage of lies and ad hominems :).

Raju, I have no problem you posting a counter narrative, in fact I welcome it. What is disconcerting is your liberal use of personal invectives. This is why I used to avoid interacting with you for a while. You will reject all this out of hand as just my opinion, but it is one shared by others also.

In this mode of debate we rely only on written words. They do not carry any of the visual aspects of face-to-face exchange. What may come across as mere banter in face-to-face argument can sound downright insulting in written medium like this one. This is why I requested you to keep the temperature down and stick to the points only. It is really up to you.

Cheers!
 

praveen

Life is a dream
Staff member
Why do i get a feeling the "intention" of this thread is becoming more and more clear now?

thread closed.
 
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