What is their intention ?

[niyengaar]

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An interesting question.

there was a thread which was meant to collect the positive contributions of Brahmans to the society.

Unfortunately ( and AS ALWAYS ) , it got hijacked. with the following reply catching the eye.

"In this forum most threads which are capable of being "hijacked", as you lament, are sure to be hijacked."



afaik, barging into a thread specifically meant for positives alone - with a negative agenda - is not participation but a hindrance with a hidden agenda.

the simple truth is - a few can NOT digest that people can credit Brahmans at all - and to take that frustration out, they foul mouth Brahmanism in every thread in the name of participation.


now, a few questions -

* what are they basically trying to do here ? to make sure that nobody speaks of positives ? especially when every other thread contains the same sane-less negativity ?


* if it is very clear that they have nothing positive to contribute, why barge into every thread and foul mouth ?


* why divert every other topic here , when you have NOTHING to contribute ON THAT SUBJECT ?


* like a few of us have spotted well , as Smt Renu Ji put it perfectly, WHAT IS THE HIDDEN AGENDA ?



All along , people supporting BRAHMANISM, have said NOT A SINGLE WORD AGAINST NBs HERE - THEY HAVE MOSTLY KEPT TO THE TOPIC ! how many of them have kept to the topic ? AND HOW MANY TIMES HAVE THEY BEEN REPRIMANDED FOR FOUL MOUTHING AND NAME CALLING BRAHMANS ?


IF THEY DO NOT HAVE ANYTHING TO CONTRIBUTE - NOTHING, EXCEPT DERAILING EVERY THREAD / NAME CALLING BRAHMANS / PORTRAY BRAHMANS IN A NEGATIVE MANNER , WHAT ARE THEY TRYING TO DO ?


if somebody does NOT like any particular group of people, they avoid them. If we think bad of anybody / any group, we would keep away from such persons / groups.

but , the ones here who hold Brahmans with contempt and in negative light - the ones who have some thing or the other to complain about Brahmans in every topic - the ones who call Brahmans as superiority complexed , arrogant , etc - in short , the ones who basically HATE Brahmans and Brahmanisms - what are they trying to do here ?


* If they hate Brahmanism so much, why are they the most active participants here ?


* If they think so Cheap of Brahmans and Brahmanism, why do they spend so much of their time , WRITING NEGATIVE THINGS ABOUT BRAHMANS here every day ?



in short , WHAT IS THEIR INTENTION ?

 

[saidevo]

namaste shrI niyengaar.

One reason could be that the thread is in the General section where anything goes, so you might ask Praveen to transfer the thread to the Philosophy and Traditions section for less interference.

 

[niyengaar]

namaste shrI niyengaar.

One reason could be that the thread is in the General section where anything goes, so you might ask Praveen to transfer the thread to the Philosophy and Traditions section for less interference.

it is not about where the thread might be - but about the intentions on the ones who derail and degrade and foul mouth and hijack ...

 

[C RAVI]

An interesting question.


now, a few questions -

* what are they basically trying to do here ? to make sure that nobody speaks of positives ? especially when every other thread contains the same sane-less negativity ?


* if it is very clear that they have nothing positive to contribute, why barge into every thread and foul mouth ?


* why divert every other topic here , when you have NOTHING to contribute ON THAT SUBJECT ?


* like a few of us have spotted well , as Smt Renu Ji put it perfectly, WHAT IS THE HIDDEN AGENDA ?

* If they hate Brahmanism so much, why are they the most active participants here ?

Shri niyengaar,

My answers to the best of my understanding...

* what are they basically trying to do here ? to make sure that nobody speaks of positives ? especially when every other thread contains the same sane-less negativity ?


* if it is very clear that they have nothing positive to contribute, why barge into every thread and foul mouth ?


* why divert every other topic here , when you have NOTHING to contribute ON THAT SUBJECT ?


* like a few of us have spotted well , as Smt Renu Ji put it perfectly, WHAT IS THE HIDDEN AGENDA ?

in short , WHAT IS THEIR INTENTION ?

---------------------------------------------

The answer in common is, to andeavor towards conclusion that Brahminsm and Brahmins are anti humanist from the time immemorial till today and are dangerous crap against better human survival. This planet need to be cleansed off Brahminism and Brahmins otherwise of which the total human advancements on this Earth would be in stake.

So, to take all the efforts, calling for needed, justifiable and safety actions in order to establish happy living for all and one.

A wake up call to ensure that present time Brahminism/Brahmins ceases to exist at the earliest, so as to attain wonderful future for human survival on this Earth. The uniqueness of Brahmins culture/Tradition/Accent/Diallect/contributions are all crap and hazardeous for themselves and others living around them.


-----------------------------------

Folks who don't feel so and cherish the treadition, uniqueness and appreciate Brahmins comtributions, still continue to synch with present living circumstances and mingle with all and one with love and respect for others, need to evaluate what the things are in Black and White and need to conclude on their own.



So, my suggestion would be, in any such threads with clear cut tittle indication of only positivity, members who want to contribute on the same lines of positivity should continue to participate and contribute unmindful of negative comments. Also not to be agitated with such negative comments/ideas and refrain from responding to such post in any ways. Let the set of members wanting to highlight negativity continue to enjoy sharing among them and the other set focused only on positivity continue to enjoy sharing among them.

I believe my suggestion is a fair deal to make every one happy with out hard feelings.

 

[Servall]

Salutations Mr. niyengaar:

* if it is very clear that they have nothing positive to contribute, why barge into every thread and foul mouth ?

Agree that in general, if one has nothing positive to contribute it is better to stay in the sidelines and learn something new!! I remember the old adage: When one who needs to talk at the correct time does not talk, (S)he displays stupidity, or when one talks where (s) he doesnt need to talk, displays ignorance!!

However, in terms of passing anything negative, this being a learning and general forum to deflect healthy thoughts, it is ok for me if the person passes those comments with decency and regard for those who may take it differently. If the person "foul mouths" then I say the administrator has a role to play and even to ban those people.

If we get to see those negative comments which might make sense, if our learned members can rebut and convincingly answer those, who knows, we might even have more believers!!

Thanks

 

[niyengaar]

well said, shri Ravi and Shri Serveall .


i agree with your suggestions on how we have to react - but what i am worried about - is that hidden agenda / sinister intention ...


what are they trying to do here ? and every other question arising out of that ...

 

[sangom]

An interesting question.

there was a thread which was meant to collect the positive contributions of Brahmans to the society.

Unfortunately ( and AS ALWAYS ) , it got hijacked. with the following reply catching the eye.

"In this forum most threads which are capable of being "hijacked", as you lament, are sure to be hijacked."

Shri niyengaar,

I was the member who said so. It was only a sincere recounting of what happens very often in this forum. There was/is absolutely no other hidden agenda.

afaik, barging into a thread specifically meant for positives alone - with a negative agenda - is not participation but a hindrance with a hidden agenda.

the simple truth is - a few can NOT digest that people can credit Brahmans at all - and to take that frustration out, they foul mouth Brahmanism in every thread in the name of participation.


now, a few questions -

* what are they basically trying to do here ? to make sure that nobody speaks of positives ? especially when every other thread contains the same sane-less negativity ?

Basically, my idea is to make the tabras have an impartial (unbiased) look at themselves, their community, its history, its strengths and weaknesses. Since there are several very zealous members (tending to being overzealous, at times) here always on the ready to support, extol and fiercely defend brahmins and their current way of life, customs, preferences and prejudices, etc., a few members like me have, willy nilly, become the Raakshasa army as against the Rama of true Brahminism.

Though you obviously see all the posts of this Raakshasa group, you seem to be particularly neglecting all the positives coming from the opposite side. That appears to be a biased approach to me. But if you consider yourself to be the Sri Rama in this shadow fight, may be you will be able to vanquish the raakshasas completely (and enthrone a Vibheeshana, if there is one).

* like a few of us have spotted well , as Smt Renu Ji put it perfectly, WHAT IS THE HIDDEN AGENDA ?

As already explained, there is no "hidden agenda", only a desire to bring to light the hidden aspects of brahmins' past.

All along , people supporting BRAHMANISM, have said NOT A SINGLE WORD AGAINST NBs HERE - THEY HAVE MOSTLY KEPT TO THE TOPIC ! how many of them have kept to the topic ? AND HOW MANY TIMES HAVE THEY BEEN REPRIMANDED FOR FOUL MOUTHING AND NAME CALLING BRAHMANS ?

May be the pro-group has not found any matter to post in that thread. I am sure you do not want to hear generalized eulogies about brahmins - like the sloka ending brahmatejo balaṃ balam, posted by Smt. Renuka, but accounts of individual tabras or Bs in general and Shri saidevo has been furnishing.

 

[Servall]

Mr. Sangom:

You are known for your eloquence, you are very descriptive but this one escapes me. What do you exactly mean by this?

I am sure you do not want to hear generalized eulogies about brahmins - like the sloka ending brahmatejo balaṃ balam, posted by Smt. Renuka, but accounts of individual tabras or Bs in general and Shri saidevo has been furnishing.

 

[C RAVI]

well said, shri Ravi and Shri Serveall .


i agree with your suggestions on how we have to react - but what i am worried about - is that hidden agenda / sinister intention ...


what are they trying to do here ? and every other question arising out of that ...

Shri niyengaar,

I am repeating their open agenda again, extracting from my post #4

-----------------------------------------------------------------

The answer in common is, to andeavor towards conclusion that Brahminsm and Brahmins are anti humanist from the time immemorial till today and are dangerous crap against better human survival. This planet need to be cleansed off Brahminism and Brahmins otherwise of which the total human advancements on this Earth would be in stake.

So, to take all the efforts, calling for needed, justifiable and safety actions in order to establish happy living for all and one.

A wake up call to ensure that present time Brahminism/Brahmins ceases to exist at the earliest, so as to attain wonderful future for human survival on this Earth. The uniqueness of Brahmins culture/Tradition/Accent/Diallect/contributions are all crap and hazardeous for themselves and others living around them.

-----------------------------------------------------------------

I would apprecite if members who are meaning the same/giving the above impressions as their "Agenda" (figured out between the dotted lines, as per my understanding) express their open acceptance by way of clicking "Like" to this post of mine.

This would help the other group to avaid responding to the negative comments in threads started with the motive of positive hightlights (with clear notificaion in the tittle).

If I don't receive "Like" from members focussing negatively on a positively motivated thread, than I have to conclude for myself that, such members are just taking their chance to speak out and express their hatred, frustruation, sufferings etc. being once victim of easter years cases of traditional/social attrocities in the name of CASTE. They just want to feel contented by this way, trying to heal their wounds in their hearts. If that is the case, I am fine with it. It is my pleasure to give solace to my fellow brahmins.

Either way receiving or not receiving "Like" to this post of mine from requested members would give me clarity.

Thanking you all in advance.

 

[Servall]

Last time I checked this site, we have 18,231 members. It seems to suggest to me that all these folks are drawn to this forum with a desire to discuss what is common to Brahminism, reach out to each other within their own brahmin communities and share ideas on religion, philosophy, music et al that is unique to Brahminism. All of us need not agree with each other all the time, but fundamentally I would think we all agree what our religion stands for and believe in it.

If there are negative comments, lets hear if it deserves hearing and if it is said with decorum and decency.

I would ask Mr. Praveen, what his expectations are from an administration stand point...or at what point he would like to put a stop to those negativity?

 

[prasad1]

I came to this forum to learn from others. I do belong to the TB community. Others who come to this community to disparage the community should be banned from posting. We among TB can have negative view of our practice, but that is among friends.

 

[renuka]

Dear Niyengar,

Just shift it to Philosophy section..Even before I had an "entity" causing trouble in my Sai Lives thread and I asked Praveen to move it to Philosophy section.
Paranormal entities are everywhere..around us and also online!

 

[suraju06]

Dear NIyengar,

"What is their intention?" you have asked.

1. I have been interacting with members in this forum for the last 1 year. There are a few hard core anti-brahmin posters here who look for only the negative aspects in brahmin culture and highlight them. They usually tell cock and bull stories to prove that brahmins had all along been scheming, conspiring tormentors of all other castes. If you question them they will fly off the handle and will call you a lier or a bigotted brahmin. They have a few icons who are demigods for them. EVR is an example. That EVR was a charlatan and that he was hypocrite to the core will never be accepted by these pseudo brahmin intellectuals even if proof is presented. None of these champions of EVR ideology have so far defined what they call brahminism.

2. As far as I know many of these posters are people who have lost their brahmin culture long back and have never bothered to retrieve it. So what they do not have is sour grapes for them. These are people who will find fault with everything which is special to brahmin culture and would like brahmins to lick the boots of dominant majority castes and completely merge and dissolve themselves into the majority crowd and lose their distinct identity. Invariably when one of them writes a post you will find others joining and writing something innocuous but appreciative of the other member’s idea thus creating an impression that the idea is something to be marvelled.

(3)Some of these pseudo intellectual brahmins will quote extensively from history written by Europeans and other sources from Europe(handed down wisdom). Thus Hindu scriptures are useless scrap for these people because they are venerated by brahmins. They will write pages and pages misinterpreting, misrepresenting, twisting and misquoting Acharyas and Alwars(in the case of SV literature) to substantiate whatever they think is dear to them.

(4)There are only three ways to look at these people to understand their intentions and deal with them. (1)You can think that these are not brahmins but people with ulterior motives who have come to this forum claiming to be brahmins and are carrying out their plan. (2) you may ignore them as just nuisance and move ahead.(3) Keep challenging them every time they write here on their pet subject so that they as well members who read the posts understand that there are valid counter points to what these people tout as revolutionary ideas. I have been doing the third one mentioned above. I intend to continue to do that.

Cheers.

 

[prasad1]

Sangom is a veteran and usually has wise comments generally, but his tone comes out very bitter towards the Brahmin Hindu practice. I ran into him in some other threads as well. I do not know the cause of his bitterness, nor am i qualified to analyse him. I suppose he just wants to provoke us to rethink our belief.

 

[kunjuppu]

folks like sangom, nara, happy hindu,

are very erudite about our scriptures, practices and traditions.

many elements of the above is good, but over time and with intention (like manu smriti) we have inherited a whole baggage of prejudices, absurdities, contradictions and sadly a feeling of separateness from other tamil groups.

over the past century, when our great grandfathers, started moving out of agraharams, to service the englishman, whether it be government, companies or colonial estates of malaya, ceylon or burma, our hitherto strongly and vigilantly held values have been going through a process of liberalization.

this is a fact, which none of us can deny. we can come up with reasons and excuses as to why it happened, but deny it would not be correct.

for many a tambram, sticking to the watered down version of handmedown values is ok. 'i cannot do sandhi daily, but will do so on weekends' appears to be a mind-consoling conscience-satisfying compromise. it can be compared to british muslims who diligently go to friday prayers and then go to the pub to quench their thirst arising from saying those prayers. that too is a fact of today's generation, in a faith, far more vigilant and absolute in its adherence and ensuring the adherence of its followers.

folks like sangom, i think, have gone the full 360 degrees of understanding and practising the faith in its utmost rigidity, filled with the knowledge and reasoning behind it, than blind ritualizing it, like what most of us are content to do. at some, they begin to realize the absurdity of many of the practices. nara has several times, mentioned the prejudices of today mingling with an erstwhile pure sri vaishnavam - what is practised and what is preached - an ocean of difference separating the two.

so, it is only their intention to question, to correct and stop such beastly abherrations. i think it is admirable of them to take on such an immense task.

it is difficult for believing tambrams, of today, to imagine the world of the past; of the early to mid 1900s, when tambrams, by virtue of their positions in the government and educational institutions, de facto controlled the lives of the erstwhile madras state. an equivalent, may be the bengali babus, who did hold similar stranglehold over vast tracts of north and west of india.

it was a transformation from a poor priest class to one of authority, that too in a short span of two generations, and along with it the arrogance and sense of exclusivity, now practised more openly, and widespread to affect the brahmin's day to day relations with others. this was not an issue, when most of us stuck to the agraharams, but in the heyday of periyar, common practice was different pandhi for tambrams, and the rest, not only at our weddings but in all institutions run by us.

today, periyar is passe. his revolution happened and that too with a vengeace. in 1967, but long decline of brahminstic hegemony had started in the 1930s during the reign of rajaji, and culminated with the same rajaji's kula kalvi thittam. today, we are seeing the tattered remnants of values, which are best forgotten, let alone be discarded - by these i mean the sense of exclusivenss, the disfigurement of our widows, the secondary treatment of our women, and above all, assuming that with age, men acquire wisdom. that was never true, for to me, there is no fool like an old fool. and everyone of us, can dig, not too deeply in our memory, to recollect some old duffer whose views and values, the rest of the family scoffed.

to sum up, i think, we should welcome and be thankful for folks like happy, sangom or nara. for they give us an opportunity to correct and resurge our way of life, and faith. we can happily discard what was wrong or now irrelevant, and move in with today's values of absolute egalatarianism and hope for a wider based hinduism, casteless and creedless, of tomorrow.

anbe sivam!!


ps - i am a believer. i believe in siva as an embodiment of my personal God. before i go under the chloroform for surgery, i whisper my sivaya namah for my comfort and consolation.

 

[Nara]

... If you question them they will fly off the handle and will call you a lier or a bigotted brahmin.

Raju, but you did lie, twice. The first time I let it go as I allowed for the possibility it was just carelessness. The second time I had to call it out so that you don't make a habit of it. When you lie you are bound to be called a liar. But I don't hold this against you, I am ready to let bygones be bygones.

They will write pages and pages misinterpreting, misrepresenting, twisting and misquoting Acharyas and Alwars(in the case of SV literature) to substantiate whatever they think is dear to them.

Now, this is a third lie. Readers who remember may recall, I quoted the exact words of Swami Periyavacchan Pillai's (SPVP) commentary and challenged why those who revere Azhvars and Acharyas do not follow those words. I did not twist, I did not interpret, all I did was present the exact words from the commentary.

Even now it is not too late, you can still take up my challenge and prove me wrong by showing that the present day SVs who swear by their reverence for early Acharyas do indeed follow the letter and intent of SPVP and I will fall at your feet and beg thousand pardons.

Raju, this post of yours is full of anger and personal invectives against those who disagree with you. There is no need for that. I welcome your intention to continue to present what you consider to be "valid counter points". If you do so without all this angry rhetoric it would be nice, but that is your choice.

Cheers!

 

[suraju06]

Dear Kunjuppu,

Your post #15 above.

folks like sangom, nara, happy hindu,

are very erudite about our scriptures, practices and traditions......................
folks like sangom, i think, have gone the full 360 degrees of understanding and practising the faith in its utmost rigidity, filled with the knowledge and reasoning behind it, than blind ritualizing it, like what most of us are content to do. at some, they begin to realize the absurdity of many of the practices. nara has several times, mentioned the prejudices of today mingling with an erstwhile pure sri vaishnavam - what is practised and what is preached - an ocean of difference separating the two....................
to sum up, i think, we should welcome and be thankful for folks like happy, sangom or nara. for they give us an opportunity to correct and resurge our way of life, and faith.

If Mr. Kunjuppu=Kamban or Valmiki, this will be equal to Naraayanam, Sangomaayanam both put together in one volume of paper back edition!!:happy: Please read last sentence of my point #2 in my post #13.

for many a tambram, sticking to the watered down version of handmedown values is ok. 'i cannot do sandhi daily, but will do so on weekends' appears to be a mind-consoling conscience-satisfying compromise. it can be compared to british muslims who diligently go to friday prayers and then go to the pub to quench their thirst arising from saying those prayers. that too is a fact of today's generation, in a faith, far more vigilant and absolute in its adherence and ensuring the adherence of its followers.

I want to donate to an organization by name Udhavum Karangal here (they are doing wonderful service to help destitute children) a million rupees. But I have only a thousand to spare. So I offer that. Now, what is wrong here? My desire to give a million? or my action in giving a thousand? I think you are looking at the zeroes after the digit 1 and are failing to see the mind and the expansive desire and the acute pain on the realization of inability caused by circumstances. If telling truth is a value Valluvar had to write that telling a lie is also a good value if the circumstances are such that the benefits justify it. Would you call that a dilution? I see a certain sarcasm in bringing in the practice of British muslims here. Is it needed? Are we not trying to be judgmental? With time and technological development and change in society new values do come and are picked up. My case is that we should be able to do this picking up without feeling guilty, without feeling small, without mocking those who are slow to pick it up and without losing our self-respect or self-esteem, so that the change is not painful:so that the change is orderly.

and above all, assuming that with age, men acquire wisdom. that was never true, for to me, there is no fool like an old fool. and everyone of us, can dig, not too deeply in our memory, to recollect some old duffer whose views and values, the rest of the family scoffed.

What a display of contempt!! You appear to have had very bitter experience with your old people. I look at it this way. Old people have seen more of life and have something to offer to youngsters by way of warnings and advices. I would tell you just an example from my personal life:

This happened about 10 years ago. I was bitten by a street dog. I could not ascertain whether it was suffering from rabies or not because it was a stray one and ran away after biting me. I went to a doctor and he advised me to take the mandatory injections and wait. He asked me whether the dog was a mad one or not for which I could not give a reply. With the awareness that the injections are not sure protection if the dog was a mad one, I went through hell with anxiety and fear. The fertile mind started imagining all sorts of things. The thoughts of a dependent family coming to street, dependent parents being left in the lurch etc tormented me. That day I could not sleep. As I came out from my bed room and started pacing up and down in the hall worrying about all these things, my mother, who also did not sleep came to me and asked me what was wrong. She knew about the dog bite. As I was sure about the futility of telling her what thoughts were running in my mind, I asked her to go to sleep. She quietly came near me and said in tamil "I know you are worried about what will happen. Don't worry. No one is dependent on any one in this world. Even if you disappear things will all move in the set direction. We all think that we are the one who are the movers which is not true. I have told you what I know". She said this and went away. The truth in what she said was quite logical and appealing to me and it was as if a burden was removed from my back. I went to bed again and forgot the matter. Next day when I got up I remembered all that my mother said and thanked God for giving me such a wonderful mother. For a mother to say what she said to her own son would have been very difficult. But a precise and sharp intervention to set things right was what she did. Even today I wonder how I can repay my debt to such a woman. I may have to take several births for that.

So my dear friend, old people are not mere souls in a body living in an utopia of memories of their younger years or simply stupid fools. They offer their advice whether you like it or not. Taking it or leaving it is your prerogative.

 

[suraju06]

Nara,

Raju, but you did lie, twice. The first time I let it go as I allowed for the possibility it was just carelessness. The second time I had to call it out so that you don't make a habit of it. When you lie you are bound to be called a liar. But I don't hold this against you, I am ready to let bygones be bygones.

You have been repeating this again and again. Please tell me now when did this happen. I would like to put this behind me once and for all. I have been letting you off with your accusations for too long.

 

[suraju06]

Nara,

Now, this is a third lie. Readers who remember may recall, I quoted the exact words of Swami Periyavacchan Pillai's (SPVP) commentary and challenged why those who revere Azhvars and Azharyas do not follow those words. I did not twist, I did not interpret, all I did was present the exact words from the commentary.

Please read the exchange between us once again. It appears your memory is playing tricks. I had clearly told you that the interpretation you made of Alwar's words is not what PVpillai' view. You had unnecessarily loaded your "revolutionary"ideas on periyavachan pillai's words. I told you even this that the Alwar was a very talented tamil poet who could have added the word 'pen' to the word kolmin kodumin though that would have added a 'nerasai' to the pa. I had concluded saying PVP as well as Alwar meant only taking knowledge from the bhakthas/bhagavathas and not giving the women of the family in marriage to them. If you still live in your ivory tower thinking that you had challenged me and I had run away from the battle, I have no problem leaving you in that state. The followers of Alwars/ Acharyas follow their words meticulously because they take it to mean differently from what you have understood with your attenuated vision. You, no doubt, produced the words from the commentary but chose to draw meanings which were not there. That was the problem.

Even now it is not too late, you can still take up my challenge and prove me wrong by showing that the present day SVs who swear by their reverence for early Acharyas do indeed follow the letter and intent of SPVP and I will fall at your feet and beg thousand pardons.

Now I don't want you to fall at my feet for any reason. It is enough if you see things in the proper light. Alwars' and Acharyas' words are sacred. You can not interpret them to suit your fervour for 'revolution'. It is enough if you understand this. I won't even ask you to accept this here openly in writing. It is enough if you realise it yourself.

Raju, this post of yours is full of anger and personal invectives against those who disagree with you. There is no need for that. I welcome your intention to continue to present what you consider to be "valid counter points". If you do so without all this angry rhetoric it would be nice, but that is your choice.

Nara, this is your view of what I have said. I do not agree with your views. Period.

Cheers.

 

[sangom]

Mr. Sangom:

You are known for your eloquence, you are very descriptive but this one escapes me. What do you exactly mean by this?

Shri Servall,

Smt. Renuka posted a sanskrit verse here. It extols brahmatejas as the mightiest. I was referring to that. Such generalized praise can be found aplenty in our scriptures, more especially the puranas. I was enquiring whether niyengaar wanted such general praise of brahmins or individual accounts in the way Saidevo has been furnishing.

 

[Yamaka]

To me "The Intention" is to get the Whole Story Right...therefore, in Threads in the General Discussion Section ALL are "allowed" or "invited" to write their part of the Whole Story Right!

Where is the problem?

Why some people take a "Defensive Position"? Where is the NEED to start this Thread at all?

 

[Nara]

.... Please tell me now when did this happen. I would like to put this behind me once and for all. I have been letting you off with your accusations for too long.

Raju,

Lie #1:
I did not make a big deal as I gave the benefit of doubt that it may simply be an unintended mistake. I am unable to get a link to this as the archives of my posts go back only couple of months, but I refer to it as follows when I exposed your second lie.

"One more reason for the harshness is a few weeks back this same Raju misquoted me to make me look bad. I gave him the benefit of doubt that it may have been unintended mistake and allowed him to correct the error. "

​

Lie #2:
Raju, you accused me thusly, "calls other members' words posted here as bovine feces". I exposed this as a bold faced lie in this post.

Lie #3:

.. You had unnecessarily loaded your "revolutionary"ideas on periyavachan pillai's words.

Raju, you may repeat this canard a million times, but it is not my revolutionary ideas in question, but that of early acharyas.

I give below once again, the very words of SPVP, these are his exact words, not my interpretation that you can conveniently reject as misinterpretation.

"உங்களுடைய வித்யாவ்ருத்தங்களும், ஜன்ம உத்கர்ஷங்களும் மத ஹேதுவாகையன்றியே தம ஹேதுவென்றிருக்கும் நீங்கள் அவர்கள் காலிலே விழுங்கோள் .... நீங்கள் அவர்களை ஆராதியுங்கோள், அவர்கள் உண்ட சேஷத்தை புஜியுங்கோள், அவர்களின் ஸ்ரீபாத தீர்த்தம் அருந்துங்கோள்...ஸ்வரூப ப்ராப்தமான நீச பாவமானது அவர்களுக்கு ஸ்வரூப ஸித்தம். உங்களுக்கு துர்மாநத்தாலே துஷ்கரம். அவர்களை தொழவே உங்கள் ஸம்ஸார பீஜமான துர்மானம் போம்.

மதம் = அடக்கமின்மை
தமம் = அடக்கம்
ஹேது = காரணம்
துர்மானம் = அஹங்கரம்
துஷ்கரம் = அரிது

​

For more see this post and this post.

Once again, I emphasize for what seems to be the millionth time, these are not my interpretations, these are taken verbatim from the Swami Periyavacchan Pillai's commentary of Thondaradippodi Azhvar's Thirmalai.

Contrast this with the practice of strict segregation practiced in all SV Matham along caste lines. The SV practice today specifically forbids what SPVP says they must do, அவர்கள் காலிலே விழுங்கோள் .. அவர்களை ஆராதியுங்கோள் .... அவர்கள் உண்ட சேஷத்தை புஜியுங்கோள் ..... அவர்களின் ஸ்ரீபாத தீர்த்தம் அருந்துங்கோள்.

This open rank hypocrisy remains unanswered. Saying I am misinterpreting and I am misrepresenting, do not hold water, these are unambiguous words of SPVP.

Cheers!

 

[kunjuppu]

So my dear friend, old people are not mere souls in a body living in an utopia of memories of their younger years or simply stupid fools. They offer their advice whether you like it or not. Taking it or leaving it is your prerogative.

dear raju,

always delighted to read your notes. particularly when they are addressed to me personally.

i am even inclined to accept the bulk of your post as a valid repartee. BUT for the above para.

let me explain..

you know raju, i believe, we are all defined by our defeats. it may be fancy to boast of our successes but, what defines us, ties our feet to the ground, and (should normally) silence our mouths.

have you ever heard a tambram old guy, talk of his defeats. where he failed. what mistakes he made. how many times he was made a fool of or laughed at. what amounts he lost in the stock market. how many girls rejected him, before his current dharma pathni accept to marry him. those times when his kids' homework stumped him

eh? i can see you smile and shake your head. that is exactly what i mean.

it is the norm and belief of tambrams (i do not know of other communities - but it appears to be the norm of upper class englishmen per pg.wodehouse, where the oldest member of the drone's club always has his say, and everyone bolts)..

ie it is the norm and belief of tambram men, that youngsters are basically wild, irresponsible, ignorant and need advice, guidance and some hand holdings.

since i for one, do not vote for this type of behaviour, my formula has been to explain in detail every mistake i have made in life to my kids. and same goes for anyone who comes to me - if i had been in a similar situation, how i was gypped buying a car or a house or a coconut.

another statement, unknown in our vocabulary, 'i dont know'. simple 3 words, but i am yet to meet a tambram codger accepting a reality, and confess it such, 'i dont know'. they have to appear to know everything under the sky, and not only that, they are 'experts' at it. moreover, they get angry and petulant, if questioned for proof or validation. this becomes 'insolence, disrespect and the general vagabondancy of the current generation'.

no?

i rest my case.

thank you and haveagoodday

 

[C RAVI]

To me "The Intention" is to get the Whole Story Right...therefore, in Threads in the General Discussion Section ALL are "allowed" or "invited" to write their part of the Whole Story Right!

Where is the problem?

Why some people take a "Defensive Position"? Where is the NEED to start this Thread at all?

There is no end to find fault in any one. There is no one without any single lapse knowingly or unknowingly or as no other choice. There is no one who is absolutely perfect other than Mahathmas who were in Tapsya, lived a life of salvation, isolating themself from this dangerous, crooked, selfish and risky world.

Mahathma Gandhi though considered Mahatham found to be wrong in his family afairs and some of the affairs of the Nation
Neharu was found with some of the faults while becoming the first Prime Minister of Indipendent India
Indira Gandhi was found to be at fault in some of her decissions, actions and strategies

There are many national and international eminent personalities who were all identified with some kind of faults on their part, irrespective of their great contributions. But still are revered for their acheivements towards betterment of human kind.

Now, Anna Hazare been figured out as who was he before and what were his wrong doings, irrespective of what he is stuggling for now to achieve something to some extent.


If a thread is started to remember and share the constuctive contributions of eminent Brahmins who all had done something some way for the society, than what is the need here to criticize them and why such threads should be mocked upon?

Do you think that you are rightly intented to "Get the Whole Story Right" about a positively motivated threads in this www.tamilbrahmins.com ?

Do you think that "General Discussion" threads though initiated with the wish of highlighting some positivities should be subject to scrutiny otherwise of which the purpose of "General Discussion Forum" would not be achieved?

 

[Yamaka]

"Do you think that you are rightly intented to "Get the Whole Story Right" about a positively motivated threads in this www.tamilbrahmins.com ?

Do you think that "General Discussion" threads though initiated with the wish of highlighting some positivities should be subject to scrutiny otherwise of which the purpose of "General Discussion Forum" would not be achieved?"

The key here is "positively motivated"...

Whatever one writes about "positive motivation" may or may not jibe well with some one else' view of "positive motivation".

That leads to "Get the Story Right".....

tb.com encourages and attracts all sorts of views, irrespective of religious beliefs, nationality etc... ask Praveen.

Cheers.